I'm sorry, but a hardcast bullet of 465gr1900 fps just does not come close to a 500gr Barnes solid2150 fps and all the Rube-Goldberg long throated-improved-seated-long-with a 500kt tailwind ain't going to make the 45/70a top choice as a DG rifle. Will it work? sure and it has, but if it was that good, every PH in Africa would be toting a 45/70 Marlin lever...jorge

Something the 45/70 crowd wants to ignore when comparing hot 45/70 loads against the 375H&H or any smaller diameter cartridge is Sectional Density, or energy per square inch of surface area or wetted surface area, or any of the measures of penetration of a solid.

When you include the SD or enrgy/sq' wetted surface area or other measures of penetration potential, the 45/70 falls far behind, which fortells its performance as a reliable DG cartridge.

JPK

I truely love my lever guns I do! However, after learning years ago what makes a dangerous game rifle from those that make their living doing so and reading many of those great gun writers, who were indeed African big game hunters as well, there is no way I would be choosing my 45/70 over my .375-Wby, .416-Remmington, .458-Lott or .470-Capstick to hunt dangerous game.

In my eyes and mind, using a 45/70 on dangerous game like cape buffalo, hippo, rhino etc. is a little like playing with dynamite using a 2 inch fuse. I like the 45/70 and it's nostalgic history but that will never make it a dangerous game rifle period. Those that say so are just a dozen shy of a full load of bricks!

Classic!

I own a Ruger #1 45-70 and love it. Even with bottom of the barrel loads it's adequate for deer. Good loads, black bear and elk are no problem. Grizzly, I think a 338 WM would be more appropriate. I know people have taken the 45-70 to Africa and have done well with it but not me. If I were paying good money to go to Africa I would pay good money and get an AFRICAN rifle. I might take it along to shoot the thin skinned stuff. Even at that my 30-06 might get the nod for the plain reason that it shoots flatter. So IMHO the 45-70 is at it's best on game up to elk when loaded properly and in good hands, no more. As far as the 458 Win Mag? It may be my choice if I were to go to Africa because after shooting my 45-70 with heavy loads a 458WM may be all I could handle. And thanks for the entertaining thread.

Brendt,
Your problem is you don't understand the difference in common conversation and arguement!...I am only discussing the subject, I don't get my shorts in a wad over any of this internet stuff, it is pointless in many cases, but it's a good way to pass the time of day in my office...In other words you couldn't be further from the truth on that subject.

Bottom line is what someone else uses on whatever animal is there business, I have the option to agree or disagree, and the option to post my opinnion as opposed to reading and not posting...I hope we all have that option otherwise if we did this to your standards it would be a very boring place to be, all would be of one accord and the masses would disapear to Hunt America in less than a week.

I'm sending you my shrinks business card, it might help your animosity!

Ray, your problem is that you can't get past your own little world.

That you have a shrink is kicker. But I am glad you do. You seem to need one badly.

Meanwhile, go back and read my last post on this thread it is almost 2 months old - point out the hostility.

You need to get a life Ray. You don't have much time.

Now calm down Brent, your gonna get an ulcer! there you go again!

Probably not an ulcer, more likely a split gut from laughing at you. You for real Ray? You seem to be loosing your grip

Temper, temper, Boys!... No one is making anyone use a 45/70 in Africa. WDM Bell wrote that he killed a thousand Elephants with a 7x57mm Mauser. None of this proves any of us should us either a 7mm Mauser or a 45/70 on dangerous game!

The only Elephants I've encountered are at Zoo's and Circus's. So I don't have a dog in this fight. But my experience is it's smart to use the best tool for the job at hand. The .458 Win Mag would be the only LEGAL choice, of the three cartridges I've mentioned for dangerous game.

So by logic Ray wins the argument. Whatever you use in Africa, good hunting, and good luck!