Barnes TTSX for elk. Done deal.

I'm a Partition and Bitterroot shooter...I can't reconcile the differences intellectually or otherwise between these and the Berger performance, because they are at opposite ends of the performance spectrum in terms of the way they work....

But I also can't ignore those things that are staring me squarely between the eyeballs.

Plus I trust my comrades John Burns and John Barsness and believe what they tell me....then there is all that dead game

So to keep myself from going crazy,I continue to use the Partitions and BBC's,but promise myself that if I ever hit John Burns' skill level at the REALLY long range game, I will use a Berger.

BTW the bloodshot meat business from the Partition is because it expands that soft nose on impact,destroys large amounts of tissue, which is what "kills".

As BobinNH says, those two bullets are at opposite ends of the spectrum in how they work.

The Partitions expand reliably and provide deep penetration. I don’t know anyone personally that has used them and been disappointed by bullet failure and reports of failure to penetrate are rare at most. Put one into the vitals and you will be eating elk steak.

The VLDs expand reliably as well, but too much so for my taste, and they don’t always penetrate well based on numerous reports. Berger claims they will penetrate 2-3” and produce “a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that will be 13” to 15” long”. Yup, put one in the vitals and you will be eating elk steak.

The problem I have with VLDs is twofold: a) what happens at close range/high velocity, and b) what happens when things go wrong? A few years back a quartering away mulie buck turned and stepped forward just as the trigger broke on my 7mm RM. The 140g North Fork I was using (3214fps) hit the right ham and was recovered up against the sternum. The buck dropped so fast that I thought it had stepped over a ledge. What would have happened had I been using a VLD and the range was close? Would I have had a ham left? Would it have penetrated to the vitals or stopped short? No one knows, but the important thing to me is that it couldn’t have dropped the buck any faster. Other bullets I’ve used in recent years (TTSX, MRX, AccuBond, Scirocco II) and 20 + years of Grand Slams, have also proven to my satisfaction that various bullets are capable of deep penetration with a high percentage of straight-down results. The Partitions have been proving this for around 70 years…

I personally feel that the Bergers (or any VLD bullet) are for experienced hand loaders/shooters that know what they are doing and can "tweak" a bullet/load to a particular rifle AND take advantage of the high BC for long range shooting. For the weekend hunter/reloader/300 yard shooter, stick with a partitions or Accubonds. They are easier to get to sing and won't leave you "wondering" if the bullet will do what it is supposed to do on a close up shot. Flinch

.............John..........Doesn`t matter how many VLD elk victims you show. Won`t matter to the diehard VLD opponents.

Do you plan on trying out the new Berger "hunting" hybrids? In looking at a video on the Berger site today filmed at the SHOT show, the main ballistics and designer guy at Berger explains that the only real difference between the VLD hunting and the new hybrid hunting bullets, is that the new hybrid ogive design eliminates the need for more COAL or seating depth experimentation and guesswork to start seeing accuracy.

He says that these new Berger hybrids are far less finnicky for accuracy when it comes to bullet jump distances to the lands. From what I gather, the construction of the "hunting" hybrids is the same as the "hunting" VLDS. The only difference being a new ogive design to better the accuracy when using various distances of bullet jump.

What do you think of the new Berger hybrids?

In which part of NM are your pictures made?

.................Regarding the "hunting" VLDs, I had the same two-fold questions as you before I considered using them. So why not call Berger directly?

I called Berger. Suggest that you might do so as well.

For "hunting" VLD use on elk, Berger will tell you that a minimum of 1800 fps is desired, while the maximum impact speed is at around 2900-3000 fps. Within that 1100-1200 fps impact speed range, the VLDs do the job. There happens to be a video on the Berger site (with Walt IIRC), where high impact VLD speeds were discussed. They took various VLD bullet calibers and fired them into recently killed game at point blank range and had no problems with the VLD doing what it was designed to do.

Based on the overall average killing distances for elk, just about every suitable elk cartridge you can think of will fall within impact speeds ranging from 1800 fps up to 3000 fps. If one wants to use VLDs on elk and do so from a very high velocity round when short range shots on elk might occur, then fine. One can always load that cartridge down a little so that impact velocities don`t exceed 3000 fps at say 50-150 yards or so.

This business about high speed impact "blowing up" concerns about the VLDs is easily solved and concerns are way over exaggerated based on the "pre-conceived" assumptions by many (even from those who have never used them), that the hunting VLDs are nothing more than target/match bullets and should only be used as such......Assess the hunting VLD bullet by the end results rather than on notions and feelings.

Angled shots? Fine! My VLD kills on hogs usually didn`t exceed 35 degrees anyway. The one elk where I did use a 30 cal 190 VLD, was pretty much a broadside hit from 328 yards. All other elk kills in the past using other bullets, have never exceeded 30-35 degrees anyway.

John Burns will tell you and I will agree, that the VLDs will perform very well on elk even when well placed angled shots are taken.

You can't post a pic, but you can call on a protractor to buttress your imagination with VLDs. Looking forward to your next post.

..........Here`s my next post. My offer still stands. You correlate a protractor with what Berger told me? You`re an idiot!

No PM from you yet with the heading of...."I ACCEPT YOUR OFFER".....

Now! You gonna keep on following me around from thread to thread like a damn little im-mature punk, thinking that you are nipping at my heels like a chee waa waa? Or are you going to PM me with an offer of acceptance?

You accept my offer there Mr. 406__SBC, and you`ll not only see a few VLD pics of hogs, my one elk kill using a VLD, but hundreds of other pics as well.

Not going to modify the way I do things or make the effort just to satisfy you. Got that?

Besides! I wasn`t addressing your azz at any time on this thread anyway. The OP can do use whatever bullet he wishes to.

BS do you have a cellphone?