#6528339 - 05/22/12 01:38 PM
Re: black powder for 30-30, 32 special or 35 remington
[Re: Hubert]
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Campfire Oracle
Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 27431
Loc: Montana, Lewis and Clark Count...
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I've fixed dozens of rifles just by getting their owners to stop cleaning them. They went from 1.5 MOA to .5 MOA in no time. ummmm.....riiigghhhttt.....  He may have a point. I had a Marlin 1894 Cowboy with 24" barrel and Ballard rifling, the caliber was .44 mag. I shot only factory smokeless ammo. A friend on mine who had one just like mine except in .45 Colt told me not to really clean the rifle as I would not be able to hit the side of a barn standing in the barn. I found out he was right. I would remover the bolt and clean it and wipe the down the bolt face but I never really cleaned the barrel. I would just use an oil patch down the barrel followed by dry patches to remove the loose residue but that was it. If I cleaned the barrel by removing all the copper with a brush and bore cleaner until the barrel shined I could not put any rounds on a man size target at 25 yards. As long as the barrel was dirty the rifle shot reasonable well. I talked with one of our police snipers out at our range one time who had just come back from a sniper school who said the schools sniper rifles were never cleaned until after all the classes were done for the year. Bolts were cleaned and dry patches run down the barrels to remove the loose stuff but that was it. The school claimed to many rifle were ruined from to much cleaning and by cleaning I mean the extreme cleaning that many of us were taught to do. Sinclair says the same thing, the best way to ruin a top barrel is to scrub the barrel spotless clean on a regular basis. I no longer scrub my barrels. I use Kroil oil to clean the barrels getting out the loose stuff and leave everything else as is. I only scrub the barrel spotless if the barrel starts to lose accuracy because what the heck have I got to lose. Take this for whatever it's worth. I don't beleive a word of not being able to hit a man sized target at 25 yds. plain BS. I can hit a man sized target with a rifle at 25 yds without any sights even if you cleaned the hell out of it. don't beleive me? scrub your rifle and let me shoot at you at 25 yds with no sights.  You can't, I sold the damn thing!  If I still had it I'd clean the thing and let you take the first shot and would be reasonable safe you couldn't hit me.  Seriously, the more scrubbing you did the worse it got. Eventually, I just left the barrel dirty and it shot reasonably well.
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#6528371 - 05/22/12 01:49 PM
Re: black powder for 30-30, 32 special or 35 remington
[Re: Hubert]
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Campfire Outfitter
Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 7655
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Swampy's track record of idiotic posts leaves him with little credibility, even when he occasionally says something that might have some merit. Like the boy who cried wolf. That said, an optimal cleaning regimen depends on several factors, including the type of ammo and the status of the bore, as well as the accuracy requirements of the type of shooting. For example, a gilt-edged benchrest barrel would require a different cleaning regimen than a surplus military rifle. I believe there is general agreement that a perfectly clean and dry bore is not best, being prone to metal fouling with the first shot. Lead bullet barrels, including .22 rf, seems to do best with some degree of seasoning. However, even .22 benchrest shooters clean their bores at certain intervals. Back in the '80s, Lones Wigger said he cleaned after every box of .22 ammo. Some of the old time .22 bullseye shooters never cleaned a bore, but that school seems to have had its day.
Oh yeah, here's another recent gem from Mr. Minute-of-Angle, from a recent post on a .45-70 Marlin:
"Without a scope it's a 25 yard gun." Priceless!
Paul
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There is something about the aging process that makes you give a crap less - Clint Eastwood.
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#6528443 - 05/22/12 02:11 PM
Re: black powder for 30-30, 32 special or 35 remington
[Re: Paul39]
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Campfire Oracle
Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 27431
Loc: Montana, Lewis and Clark Count...
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I clean, well actually Ingwe's team cleans, my Ruger/Kidd match bench rest .22lr about every 500 rounds. The rifle, clean or dirty, shoots far better than I can shoot. One thing that makes me nervous going the black powder route is that I'm not very good at cleaning. I mean, cleaning is a chore I try to avoid as much as possible. I think I'm going to have to change my strips if I decide to shoot black powder. 
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Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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#6528457 - 05/22/12 02:15 PM
Re: black powder for 30-30, 32 special or 35 remington
[Re: derby_dude]
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Campfire 'Bwana
Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 10666
Loc: MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA
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Benchrest .22 shooters are now cleaning as often as every target (about 25 shots).
DD, cleaning a blackpowder rifle is so easy it is ridiculous. It just takes a little bit of instruction, patches, water and some gun oil.
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#6528531 - 05/22/12 02:47 PM
Re: black powder for 30-30, 32 special or 35 remington
[Re: BrentD]
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Campfire Outfitter
Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 7655
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Unless you get lead fouling, but metal fouling can be an issue with any type of rifle.
I agree, the difficulty of cleaning BP guns is a myth.
IMO, nothing is as bad as trying to get copper fouling out of a barrel.
Paul
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There is something about the aging process that makes you give a crap less - Clint Eastwood.
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#6529068 - 05/22/12 05:37 PM
Re: black powder for 30-30, 32 special or 35 remington
[Re: Paul39]
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Campfire Oracle
Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 27431
Loc: Montana, Lewis and Clark Count...
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I use Kroil oil on my .308 Win. stuff works good because it's penatrating oil. It penatrates the barrel steel and I have found that metal and even powder fouling is almost no- existance. I wonder if Kroil oil could be used on a black powder barrel after the water treatment. Sinclair put me onto the Kroil oil.
_________________________
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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#6529111 - 05/22/12 05:49 PM
Re: black powder for 30-30, 32 special or 35 remington
[Re: derby_dude]
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Campfire 'Bwana
Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 10666
Loc: MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA
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I have not used Kroil but I would suggest no. Not as a rust-preventative. But there are lots of good oils to use. Personally I use NAFTA AT fluid after cleaning my rifles.
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Save an elk, shoot a cow.
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#6529132 - 05/22/12 05:58 PM
Re: black powder for 30-30, 32 special or 35 remington
[Re: BrentD]
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Campfire Outfitter
Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 7655
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For reasons I can't explain and which may or may not be valid, many BP shooters don't like to have petroleum based products in their bores. Ballistol is popular, and some use bullet lube. There are probably many things that will work OK. It ain't high tech.
Paul
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There is something about the aging process that makes you give a crap less - Clint Eastwood.
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#6529213 - 05/22/12 06:17 PM
Re: black powder for 30-30, 32 special or 35 remington
[Re: Paul39]
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Campfire Guide
Registered: 09/28/11
Posts: 3483
Loc: Colorado
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Ballistol is the hot tip, and you can dilute it with water.
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Accuracy is everything...........Wyatt Earp
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#6529231 - 05/22/12 06:21 PM
Re: black powder for 30-30, 32 special or 35 remington
[Re: Mauser_Hunter]
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Campfire Outfitter
Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 7655
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Possibly, but why would you? I've tried mixing it with water for wiping solution, and it acts somewhat like water soluble oil, but it didn't seem as uniform as typical WS oil.
I sure wouldn't put water in it if I were going to use it as a bore preservative, or any other application to prevent rusting.
Paul
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There is something about the aging process that makes you give a crap less - Clint Eastwood.
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