Granddaughter wants to be an Architect. Looked around and found two Universities that offered her what she wanted. They were the University of Michigan, and the University of Southern California.
Applied two both and got accepted at each one. Toured each campus, then waited to see if she was qualified for financial assistance. Family income was to great, so non was offered.
U of M cost 32K a year for tuition, room & board and expenses. USC came in at 92K for the same thing.
SO, now we have a "Go Blue" student in the family.
You read about student loan debt, I can't imagine graduating from College with a 100k dept.

Congrats.

BUT - just because you didn't get assistance (scholarships or whatever) doesn't mean the entire tuition is debt. You can borrow less and pay out of pocket for the rest via working/savings etc.

Architecture is five years, right?

I’ve got two college kids working right now, one just started summer break, the other is doing a gap year. On the summer schedule (50 hrs a week) they’ll both make $3K per month. Both live at home or with family, and are easily banking 80% of their checks. Just in summer break, that’s 10K per year.

If they work just 20 hrs a week the rest of the year, they can double that income. Over a five year term, that’s $100K less loans.

Today at USC


That was a no-brainer

If you are obtaining a degree in a field that has good earning and employment potential, the investment is worth it. Some folks drive $100,000 trucks. Some folks invest $100,000 in the stock market. Some invest it in themselves.

The problem is, it costs essentially the same to get a useless degree that doesn’t pay much once you are out of school. People that pay for those degrees and then whine about the costs are the problem.

We have a community college right down the street. For the first 2 years it will cost them less than $20,000. That's with books and fees. If the kids want to go on to a 4 year school, it's on them. I could care less about the costs. I won't be paying them off.

kwg

No disagreements at all, but your statement is incomplete. It should finish with : some folks expect their parents to foot all the bills, and some expect the government to pay for everything.

I’m sick and tired of parents and voters without a backbone buying into the “college is unattainable” narrative. It’s just a much in reach of students today as it ever was. The main obstacle in student’s way these days is wussy parents.

Skip it. If she is any good at all, autocad can be a very good income and rewarding career without all that expense plus the internship waiting around. Then you are dealing with a class of people in a corner of the market place with its own atmosphere that - to me is unappealing if not toxic. Well, it's dull at least and not very creative. Architectural design is something else you either have a feel for it or you fake it. Residential builders and home owners will keep her busy if she learns the discipline and basic rules of drawing, then perfects her art of clean, clear and easy to read plans.The whole logic of building itself, spans, proportions, standard practice is just as important. Working for a builder directly would be a sound option for learning the practical needs of the industry.

$32k Still seems pretty damned high. Get a As degree at the local community college for 20k and them transfer in. Make sure that the credits will transfer and get it in writing! Colleges love to discount students coursework and make them repeat classes in their campus so they can make more money. They’ll lie to your face about what will and won’t transfer.

Where I live, architects average 78k a year. Auto Cad designer, 54k.

Get it - averages and location matters but I'd have to think an architect from U of M is doing better than 26 bucks an hour regardless.

Would the University of Michigan allow the transfer? It's not an easy school to get into. I know guys who were straight A, Jewish and spoke 3 languages that couldn't get in.

De fugg is a "gap" year?

Just a suggestion if $$ are an issue:

Every institution insists students have several off major courses to round them out so one can fit into an eloquent society. I.e. English composition/literature, sociology, a little biology, psychology, geology, computer science, maybe some art/music, economics, political science, etc. One doesn't simply immerse themselves in nuclear physics courses for 4 years and come out with a degree in hand. With some assurances that such can transfer for full credit, one can perhaps knock those out at a much less expensive institution then transfer and get into the major muscle courses at the big school. Most college catalogues provide required course listings for every major offered and include at least a minimum number of hours and subject areas that must be devoted to electives.

That was the route my wife and I employed with our first two years at a community college with all being transferable. I hung in for another 5 years or so of graduate school, but that was fully funded, and we came out with no debt and a little money in the bank.

Also, for those not headed to college this coming fall:
Having hung out in the sciences for a career, we have some friends with extremely bright kids taking full advantage of high school advanced placement programs. The kids take/took college credit courses in high school and actually had an associate degree in hand when they wrapped up their senior year. Admittedly, these are extremely bright and self-motivated kids, and they're wrapping up a 4-year degree in only 2 years. Such is a bit easier if one is situated in a college town, however, where they're allowed to slip out and have a wider array college courses to select from than high schools can offer in house. An ex-coworker has moved into teaching, and her 3 AP courses are ranked as college credit.

Last: Seems a lot of kids now days simply can't throttle back. Computers, printers, phones, a rig, wifi, TV, ordering out, Saturday night at the bar, a seasonal wardrobe, and a week in Cabo are viewed as absolute necessities. A few years back, part of registering our son was a required visit with the financial aid office. We could handle things, so just spent the time gabbing. Along the above lines, the lady mentioned how frequently kids came in requesting another $5K to get by and then excitedly describe how things went in Daytona over spring break as the paperwork is being filled out.

ROTC programs can do full funding, but one will have to give them some time in return when finished. Officer's pay isn't that bad though when accompanying benefits are factored in.

Usually where there's a will there's a way. Good luck.


Edited: Gap year = working for year to build up one's bank account. If one can find the right company, do an internship, and impress the bosses, some will help fund college work.

Some degrees are useless, many are not. Mine, my wife’s and both our kids have degrees or multiple degrees and all were/are quite successful. Picking a degree with career potential would not seem that complicated, but it must be for some. And we paid off our student loans.

I am surprised that there’s only two schools that have the architectural curriculum that fits in this case. And they are both high dollar schools.

When I first got out of the Navy - I wanted to go to Notre Dame for architecture. The do a semester in Italy studying classic buildings. Admissions strongly discouraged me because at the old age of 29, they didn't think I'd fit in with the other students.

Ya son of mine grads hs next yr been lookin around holy schit 😵 he ain’t sure yet what he’s gonna do.Been tryin to lure him into takin ovr for me 😉 he ain’t bit yet😂

The community college suggestion is a good one for more than just the cost savings. You will probably receive more attention from and access to the instructor and a better education in a small classroom in a community college than you would spending the first two years in a major university in huge lecture halls with a couple hundred students and little access to the instructor.

I did just that for two years and then applied directly to the engineering department at a large university with an excellent program. The community college had a program set up for students to study and prepare to apply directly into the various engineering departments, i.e., civil, mechanical, electrical, chemical, etc. When I got to the university, I was intimidated at first because I thought my peers would have received a better education at the university than I got at community college. I soon found that my skills were actually better than most of the students who did their first two years at the university. I did well and even received scholarships from the engineering department based on my academic performance.

I went back to the university and got a Masters in Engineering after I had worked a few years.

Through all my years of schooling, from kindergarten through graduate school, I think the best instruction I received was at that community college.

Regarding CrashPad's advice to learn AutoCAD rather than getting the architecture degree. Definitely learn AutoCAD. With that skill she'll be able to easily set out her own shingle and call her own shots rather than being someone else's employee. Having an architect's license will only help her to do that and it will give her more control as her career progresses.

Some generic advice, don’t waste your time on a degree that some Hindi can do offshore for $5-$6 an hour.

Mostly computer stuffq

I hates architects...

I wents ta Va Tech... an even my dumbass gots a scolashipp.

It were $852 a year bak den.

Mo now...

Ranked 9th...

Yus tar be 3rd...

https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-colleges-for-architecture/

Good luck to her...

Drop me a PM if you need thoughts.

It is a BRUTAL PATH!

Trust me.

Told my boy find somethin “essential” to do

Son decided, on my die, he liked partying at FSU better that studying, so two years later he had butkus and I am pretty sure that I had bought about two buildings, with no deeds.. So 8 years later he tuned himself up, on his dime, got a degree and a MBA, on his dime. He graduated upon two years, got his MBA in one year. Odd how real self determination, and spending your own money, works through all that crap.

Tell you this, for a fact, there are dozens of great architectural schools in this country. It is not the school, it is the teachers and whether or not they actually teach their own classes.

A year not going to school between high school and college. Some work, some do volunteer or mission work, some just goof off.



How long does it take to pay back the 5 years of lost income plus the tuition expense at that differential?

74K seems awfully low. I pay truck drivers considerably more than that.

Don’t know where this is, but don’t let her attend here.

https://www.geekslop.com/entertainm...-to-school-and-youll-get-smart-they-said

Autocad is a drafting tool.

Most architectural firms use Revit, not autocad.

OP, tell your daughter to get her architecture degree. If she works hard she'll be noticed. What state are you in? You may be surprised of the schools that are desired are more within region than expected.

I’ve got a daughter finishing her sophomore year at UNC Chapel Hill. Total costs are around $10,000 per semester. Not too bad considering the education. She will be going to graduate school, which will be on her. I’ll have a son starting as soon as she finishes her undergrad.

We have quite a few mechanical contractor firms in area, they hire Cad folks. All I've seen seems to require an education to get the gig so tuition and time applies.

WI ave salary

AKislander has a point there.

I took an organic chem class as an undergraduate and there were 5 of us in the class. We were competitive, lectures were essentially at a round table, we all studied together, and the class was actually an entertaining and fun endeavor.

Similarly, our undergrad physics class was blessed with a young but very dedicated professor. There were a couple of fine young ladies present who just simply could not get it. That prof personally spent hours tutoring those two and damn near got ulcers in an effort to get them through. He received a well-deserved standing ovation at the end of his final lecture that literally reduced him to tears.

Progress to grad school at Big Univ, and my committee thought I should maybe do a 500-level 5-hour bio-chem class. I have no idea why, but I was outvoted 5 to 1. Talk about fear, I'd not been in a chem class for 6 years. That was a weed eater course for every pre-med and vet student, conducted in about a 300-seat lecture hall, and more than half withdrew before the finals. Several of us recorded every lecture so we could subsequently refine our notes. Lab sessions were conducted solely by teaching assistants, and about half of those had language issues. Envision today's computer tech support as an example. There was actually a revolt for one of those lab sessions with a full member petition insisting the TA be replaced.

Getting back to that echoing lecture hall, one felt that any raised hand should at least be worthy of a Nobel prize when posing a question in front of such a huge crowd. Once in a while, a stupid question does surface.

That's kind of the route I went. I went to a cheap 2 year school to get my associates RN then to Boise State to get my BSN which was pretty reasonably priced for instate. I would have graduated with even less debt than the $15k I had if I hadn't done an expensive semester in Jerusalem and a semester just for fun in Hawaii.

It was graduate school that put me into some real debt but even then I went to the cheapest of the top 20 MBA programs. So I had a lot less debt than people who did ivy league MBAs but still got a valuable degree at a top ranked school. My grad school was only a bit over $4000/ semester for tuition when the other similarly ranked schools were as high as $40,000 a semester.

I paid off a majority of my student loans within about 4 years of graduating. Then I got another discount on interest for making the first 48 payments on time so my rate dropped to under 1 % so i took more time to pay off the last one.

I was lucky I got my loans before Obama federalized them all because I had some great rates and good incentives to pay on time. Now the rates are always much higher than I had and the feds incentivize the borrowers not to pay them back themselves.

The other day I saw were Biden paid off $250,000 in loans for a 49 year old who spent 9 years in school learning to play violin and has never had a real job so he'd never paid on any of his loans. He just let them grow and grow until uncle Biden used our money to buy his vote.

I tell my kids to seriously consider doing their undergrad schooling at cheaper schools. That if they want a degree from a big name school maybe get a graduate degree at one but only if it's were a degree that has great odds of getting a high paying job like engineer, dentist or Dr. I tell them if they really want to do art, music, social work or some liberal arts degree get a real job and pay their way through but don't take loans to get a degree like that.

There's too many kids borrowing tons to get worthless degrees. If anyone is paying their loans for them it should be the school's that suckered them into getting a worthless overpriced degree not us tax payers.

It just seems so wrong that hard working people that never got to go to school are being taxed to pay off other people's student loans. Especially when a lot of those other people just lived large on loans while partying and getting worthless degrees that contribute nothing to society. Almost as infuriating as watching millions of illegals get more money per person than active duty military members get.

Bb

FYI... a BArch is 5 years... not 4.

BA or BS in the study of Architecture is 4 years... but you can't be a license without adding a MArch2.

UVA is famous for this skulduggery.

There are/were only 52 "Accredited" architecture programs in the whole country when I went (1990). Community colleges and "small colleges" are/were NOT Accredited.

Good luck to her regardless.

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Internship pay is horrible (3+ years).

Congrats on having what sounds like a smart and motivated grand daughter

Pretty incredible I think I’m the first to say that on this thread? I dunno, I started skimming pretty quick when people started saying she could skip college and make enough money to have a great life anyway

Despite all of its flaws, a degree from a school like Michigan or USC is going to be worth it for anyone who applies themselves and wants to go into a field with good earning potential. My sister in law is an architect and does quite well