"It is a birth defect with which this country was born out of slavery; we're never really going to be race blind,"

Discuss.....

Human kind will never be race blind. I don't know why people always assume America is the bad country and others have it figured out. We are doing better than 99% of the others.

F'k her.

We will become race blind when all the races begin acting like civilized human beings instead of animals. The ball is in their court, not mine.

Albino's are picked on too. So are Black Sheep and White Leopards. WE are but one little species in the Animal Kingdom and though we like to think we are above all the others, it will never be.

The minorities are way more racists towards other racists than white folk. And whites actually have legit reasons to not like other races.

As long as ethnic subgroups major in misbehavior, they'll continue to bring discredit to the main ethnic groups that they're parts of � especially while the majority of their larger groups tolerate and seem to endorse their misbehavior.

I think I come close to being race blind. I doubt anyone is completely race blind. I view ever new person I meet with an open mind. I treat them just like they are quality human beings until they prove themselves otherwise. I know black, Asian, American Indian, East Indian, Assyrian, Armenian, Jew, and even some white guys I feel fortunate to call friends. Race does not enter into the discussion, it is who they are that places them on my friend, ignore, or do not like list.

Amazing that Dr. Rice, who (until Hussein was "selected") proclaimed her successes were on merit, now starts playing the race card.

Anyone ever looked at how many minority scholarships, .gov programs, hiring preferences, loan options, etc., are PREDICATED on race? The U.S. will never be race-blind, because there's too much money and power for and to .gov to perpetuate race-baiting.

More BS from the guy two speaks but has no clue!

The fleeces from these guys sell out in one weekend.

As long as our congress allows a black caucus but not a white one, we won't be race blind. Reform must start at the top and you can't get much higher than that.

This is kind of how I see her comments too. Mooshell got lambasted(rightly so) for her comment about being proud to being an american for the first time in her adult life. Are Rices comments less patriotic?

The ones who preach tolerance are the ones who are intolerable. Blacks and other minorities have learned to use their race as an excuse to get what they want and it works because white people are dumb enough to let them! If they don't get their way, the whites are to blame because they are racists! Its over used and it still gets attention, why I don't know? I don't trust blacks nor do I pretend to like them. I treat each person accordingly to how they treat me.

Not just the US, but all of mankind.

Cracks me up these double standards......the Muslim world wants to blow Israel and half of humanity into smithereens,Egyptian Muslims are slaughtering Catholics, and genocide is as normal as fresh air in Africa...

Yet Black intellectuals are worried about.... US?

I ain't havin no Zebra in my house, Wizzie!

You stated it nicely!

Thanks.

I'm seeing the former Secretary of States statement in a different perspective. It is members of the black community who keep bringing up the slavery issue. How many times have you heard from a self-apponted spokesman for the black community rail on about the "Legacy of slavery and Jim Crow" to advance some political agenda. I've heard statements about the debate about the constitutionality of some proposed action or legislation that included the statement that the "Constitution has no validity because it had legalized slavery and Jim Crow."

I believe that continuing such attitudes from the black community are enshrining second-class citizenship and dependence on the federal government....which is an updated form of slavery.

I think that Ms. Rice was just pointing this out.

Realizing of course that she has never had anything but a Govt "job" and I use that term loosely. She is a govt teet sucker and always has been and will never be anything else.

as others have said, no culture on earth is 'race blind'. Always has been that way, probably always will be.
I think for the most part, America has done a darn good job, with regards to how we get along though.

Many, many excellent post made to this point. A recurring theme is that when any given race chooses to see that its members behave in a civil and proper manner, race becomes less of an identifier. Another, which is equally valid, is that as long as it is beneficial to a race to be singled out, that race will be more than happy for that to continue.

Probably correct but her race sets no example for the rest of us. Never have seen anyone as bad as blacks about racism.

Condi was nice when she kept her trap shut.

I've read research that indicated that even in multi-ethnic neighborhoods - where all the little kids play together - eventually - over time - they begin to self-segregate.

Therefore, it would seem to be a rather natural phenomena.

That's not to say picking one's friends is based on things like skin colour, but it does seem natural that people would enjoy hanging around others with the same type of background, the same food choices, the same living arrangements, the same religions etc. etc. etc.

I think it takes generations for people to truly assimilate into larger population groups - and then, only if it's a goal they desire.

Canada and the USA are among the best places on earth for people of different races to get a fair shot at achieving success.

I understand and agree with her statement - although the surrounding context may be helpful - and don't think her words or her intent convey anything negative - not a put-down of the US. Why do so many among us have a hard time listening to a factual analysis with which we may not agree? She is not saying that the US is deficient in some way - she is saying that we are a country of normal human beings conditioned by our past behavior.

Study of her history and utterances shows no tendency whatsoever to play the race card, and certainly no expectation of favored treatment due to her skin color/racial status. She has earned her cred and it is evident.

Not only is she correct, but she is correct on the basis of experiences that many among us never will have. Grew up in a somewhat cultured black family in a hot bed of anti-black racist behavior down south - witnessed enough evil racist behavior to get the picture - went her own way as a brilliant student and academic, earned a challenging Ph.D and has held highly respected roles at at one of the supposedly elite universities.

Beyond her work in two top Cabinet posts in the GWBush administration, she is a well-known expert on foreigh affairs - particulalry Russian history and culture.

Now - for those who don't like her comments, what type of person would you like to have state some views about racism in our society?

I used to work for a nationwide trucking company. We had 3 black drivers stationed in Salt Lake. 2 were regular guys, well liked and who did a good job. The 3d was a black racist. Some other drivers told me that the 2 regular guys got him in a corner and threatened to take him apart if he didn't shape up because he was jeopardizing their respect in the company.

NASCAR: The ultimate race card

humm Ghost, before i hit 'play' i thought she was talking about you. joking of course

When any given race pisses and moans about how miserable it is to be a citizen of the country most on earth would want to be a citizen of, you can bet their problem lies within them.

It's possible. Personally I think she was showing the approximate distance between her two front teeth.

I do wish she would have run as a republican and prevented the obamabortion

Not a chance. The right wing of the GOP would have crucified her over "lifestyle choices".

Well, I never heard about that. The dims always said her and W were having a thing, but with the way they lie... I guess they (GOP) did the same to Sarah Palin.

Because that's ALL we hear 24/7/365 during the politcal season, which is about to meet itself ending and beginning. Why continually harp on the poor hand the blacks were dealt in this country? The blacks born in this latest generation can go to college and land a great job...all without being able to read or write.




As is every other country on the planet, and we engage in the most encompassing effort to overcome our Pavlovian reaction bar none when compared to other countries.



Well, that's shot now, isn't it?



How about NO person state their views on racism? We've heard it until we're sick of it. It does more harm than good to play the race card; I don't give a [bleep] who plays it. The playing field is so far past level, the blacks who want to succeed need only enter the system and they will be spoon-fed to success. The ones who want to remain in poverty, or run around in gangs shooting one another, and blaming it on "whitey", have dug in so deep in how they live we'd have to turn the playing field 180 degrees and shake them loose.

Magnumdood - whether or not you realize it, you just did what you asked "how about" we not do. Most of us do not like to be reminded of things we find uncomfortable.

Although some - I for one - would argue your comments that are "overboard", no sane person would argue against your point about opportunities provided today, nor would they argue what you say about the efforts this country has made toward correction.

Rice did not blow any of her record. She was not arguing any of the above or harping on black issues - nor was she seeking any advantage in position - nor was she bemoaning any particular situation or action - thus was NOT playing the race card. She merely was stating what some people - especially many liberal types - do not want to acknowledge but any thinking person knows - racism is not ever going to completely go away, here or anywhere else.

You just helped verify that.

I see some negatives and many positives in Condi Rice, but certainly not racist speech or behavior.

No, I was responding to your comments.


Big surprise there...


I know.


Playing the race card isn't held to single issues/events. Condi Rice brought the issue to the forefront of the national consciousness more effectively than a football team of Sharptons and Jacksons with an unlimited budget could. She has been a conservative and a highly respected, valuable asset to our country, and she played the race card more effectively than anyone I can think of.

CCCC

funny, I see many negatives, and damn few positives in Condi.

If you think others race baiting and playing the race card make me uncomfortable, then you are a long way off the mark.

Race baiting and others playing the race card pisses me off. If "uncomfortable" and "pissed off" are equivalent in your understanding of human emotions and behaviors, as I said, you're way off the mark.

Doesn't it give many of you pause that somebody who is respected and revered on this site in regards to almost all her beliefs, policies and accomplishments, sees something different from all the whites on this board? Instead of trying to understand it through her eyes, you just choose to suddenly marginalize her as another black whiner playing the race card?

I fail to see what the fuss is about. People make themselves a victim when they play the victim card. It's not about race, but education and class. Condi is right, the race card is just the victim card of another color. No place is color blind and the poor will always find an excuse for why they are poor.

...and that's the name of that tune.

Ghost: I hope that pitiful video wasn't a serious attempt at discrediting the good Doctor... if you were photographed at every step of your existence, I bet there'd be some scowls you were caught doing, also.

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that some "journalist" phrased a question to elicit a prescribed response from Condi Rice, and she responded in the most "vanilla" (for lack of a better descriptor) manner possible while still making a point. This whole thread is based on ONE FREAKING PART OF ONE SENTENCE of her ENTIRE RESPONSE! I haven't seen or heard the entire comment, and I highly doubt many of you have, either.

Are any of you familiar with the reviled "spin-tactics" of the MSM? Take one sound byte out of context and cause mass-hysteria in the process?

Pete's Sake.

Bullshit. Everyone has to persevere...period.

I've grown weary of the black 'experience'. It's crap,and everyone knows it.

Really, go to Mexico and see if the Mexican police treat your white ass the same he does the brown ones.

Let me ask you this..let's say Joe Montana goes on vacation in Mexico and his wife turns up stabbed to death. There is all sorts of evidence that points to Joe. Joe claims the Mexicans planted the evidence becasue he refused to pay them money. Would you be as sure Joe was guilty as we were O.J?

Now let's stack the jury with whites from America, you think all the Mexicans will call us ignorant dumphucks when we acquit?

Nope. It was a spoof of a Family Guy episode. Perhaps I'll post it.

I dislike Rice and the whole Bush regime though, make no mistake.

This aint Mexico, Junior.

Ya, but you get the point Dad.

She's right but it has nothing to do with slavery. As long as the majority of black people keep acting like the majority of black people do today of course we will still see race in this country. Be an idiot not to.

Shawn,

I don't think she is playing the race card, just commenting that America will never be color blind....I think she is right.

Doc

the focus on race has come from the race baiters and civil rights pimps for at least the last thirty years or so.

race/gender/class.....the great dividing wedges that define the liberal mind.

remember how Obama was going to be, like...post-racial?

pretty much turned out like all the other hopenchange lies.

So you can say with certainty that if you lived amongst a majority that once treated your people as animals and subhumans, you would be good to go because today there are laws prohibiting such, and you personally hadn't ever experienced it to that magnitude? Your grandfather might have been denied access and called [bleep] but now because of new laws, you haven't? You would have no resentment towards that majority?

nobody alive today was a slave, or even the child of a slave.

nobody alive today in this country ever owned a slave or saw a slave.


I don't really buy PTSD from reading about something that happened to someone six or seven generations ago, nor is it an excuse for crime, drug addiction, and all the other deviant pathologies which cripple the black community and are responsible for the perception...which is accurate, that blacks are more likely to be criminals and/or government dependents than the average citizen.

It's value statements like these that are used to by many to cloak the message they have and are hoping it produces a much more visceral response than being "uncomfortable". Condi doesn't get a pass because she's Condi. In fact, she has a greater responsibility because she is Condi to NOT make racially-charged statements, which in today's climate, means avoiding the topic altogether.

Gawd you are an ass-hole. She merely states her opinion (and she is as entitled to hers as you are to yours) and your response is an obscenity? "F'k her"? How about "F'k you". Condi Rice has been a pretty loyal conservative foot soldier. She did not say we were a racist country. Only that we would never be "race blind". How in hell does that merit a "f'k her"??

Moron. In what sense did she play the race card? Gawd you are truly stupid.

Word.

The fact that a minority of black people seem to manage just fine and be very sucessful in everyday life and business despite coming from the same exact gene pool of former slaves seems to prove that it's entirely based on attitude.

I know one thing for certain. If you sit around and bitch and moan about stuff 150 years ago you likely aren't going to get a whole lot of nothing done today.

I got a lot of black guys who work for me. I hear the crap all the time...from the guys at the very bottom who will never work their way out of the bottom. Funny I never seem to hear it from my shop foreman who makes $300k/year and started off with the company washing the trucks part time and has a piss poor LA public school education.

Thoe who can - do. Those who can't - sit around and bitch about something they never experienced 150 years ago.

I'm sorry if you feel like the "man" is keeping you down. The man didn't make you have 3 kids before you were 21 years of age. The "man" didn't make you drop out of school. The "man" is not making you idolize the thug lifestyle. The "man" isn't making you live welfare check to welfare check for generations.

Get over it.

Extremely well-said.

What's with this? Is she a lezzie to boot? I had often wondered about her hair and how and why it was straight and short. Also her teeth would indicate she is probably inbred with relatives being her parents. Coming from the south I can easily see that being fact.

Understood, however my point still stands, we don't live as a minority in a country that once had the capacity to look at our forefathers as subhumans.

I think her message was one I agree with. You can't change history, you can't change those who are prejudiced, all one can control is how they react to it, or said another way, whether or not they let their anger consume them to their own disadvantage.

I do believe that was her exact message, no?

No. That's the message you took from it. I believe you can determine what my perception of her statement is. And, while anger has the capacity to consume a single person, a shared anger, say, by whites in America over be bludgeoned by constant reminders of how racist we are, then at some point that anger will boil over.

Keep poking the hornet's nest with a stick, then act like you're put-upon when the inevitable end results.

I believe she made your point without the accusatory tone.

"My family had to persevere under those circumstances to educate all of us, and to insist that we might not be able to control our circumstances but we could control our response," Rice told CBS' Bob Schieffer.

You have NO WAY of knowing what it is to be black in America, neither do I, but it would seem that you and Rice share the same belief that holding on to said anger will do nothing for the black community. Her point was directed towards black people, not whites. Isn't she pushing the message you just said blacks need to hear?

From what you write, there is no way to decipher what may be "equivalent" in your thinking, nor is it possible to understand the gradations of your discomfort scale - and it does not matter. You speak as if you are the only person who despises race-baiting and the playing of the race card - as if you are someone special - and you stated some fairly incindiary (and untrue) things in your diatribe.

Your "pissedoffedness" seems to lead to some confusing and radical responses. It's difficult to understand why you have such a strident reaction to those insightful comments by a learned person who has been where most of us never have been - or never will be - who loves this country and works to uphold some of its best values.

Is there a possibility that you have misunderstood?

No one said yet...IS SHE A LEZZIE? This would make all the difference in the world and settle the issue once and for all without further discussion and bickering amongst ourselves.

.
If one of us comes up and says that you are a LEZZIE, will it make all the difference in the world and bring an end to the bickering and negative reactions to your posts?

The tone, at this point in our history, need not be accusatory. The content of her message was accusatory; she could not deliver that message, in any way or any where, w/out the content being accusatory by default.




To say our country will never be race-blind infers (accuses) that our country will always be racist based on our the behaviors and attitudes of our forefathers.

No there's not.

It's quite obvious you have an agenda and are trying to hide it by pretending not to understand plain, simple language.

***********************************************************

I totally agree with Dr. Ken Howell. He is telling it like it IS!

By the same token, I wish Condi Rice would run for President... I'd vote for her in a New York Minute! What she sez about being "color blind" will continue to be absolutely true... for the reason(s) which Dr. Howell has posted.

"Truth" IS TRUTH, folks... whether you like it or not.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Given the fact that you are so superior and overpoweringly astute - seeing the "obvious" where others may not - and in that you communicate clearly in such a civil and restrained tongue - why don't you polish up a few of those big insights and explain exactly what my agenda is here, and how I am hiding it. Here is your opportunity for eloquent exposition of your brilliance. Step up Magnumdood.

Magnumdood, there are still nazis in Germany, like it or not. Muslims hate the world, there are still NAZIS in America (I know, I used to work with one!)

Can a black woman NOT NOTICE AND COMMENT ON THE OBVIOUS???!!! Only a complete MENTAL-MORON would try to say that racism is a non-issue in America (I foolishly believed this until I started at my place of employment).

The truth has NOTHING to do with our behaviors and the attitudes of our forefathers and EVERYTHING to do with HUMAN-FREAKING-NATURE to dislike anything that is unlike us. Many of us have made enormous strides to alter the course, but you can NEVER stop hatred and humanity's insatiable ability to find scapegoats.

She's been a "loyal foot-soldier" to .gov.

If you can't see her playing the race card, you're not looking.

The "f'k you" she just delivered was to anyone and everyone who actually believes that people ought to be judged on merit alone. You know, that conservative line of thinking... Her comment and opinion perpetuates the race-baiting that keeps political parties in control of playing races against one another, and picking "winners" as they see fit from racial classifications. Take a look at a federal employment application, and to preference points for the same. Hint, there...

She didn't say racist, she said will never be color blind..there is a difference. One can learn to respect those of a different race, and still recognize they are of a different race.

I haven't read the entire thread but I will say that she was too narrow in her scope. To be entirely truthful, what she should have said is "humans" will never be race blind. They never have been and they never will be.

Negative outlook? Yes, but an accurate and realistic one.

This is the only response you'll get to that antagonizing hyperbole.

What is the difference?

That difference, would have made a considerable difference.

Instead, she played the race card citing slavery and simply perpetuates the system and the agenda.

Again, V-rod, you leave no doubt that you are a complete nut case. Where does Condi Rice say, let alone imply, that people should not be judged soley on merit. The essence of her statement is that racial conflict is so bound up with our founding that we will probably never be a truly color blind society. How in heck is that observation an expression of an opinion that she does not believe in merit? Thomas Jefferson said much the same thing about the intrinsic nature of the conflict when he commented we had the wolf (black slaves) by the years but at the same time, could not afford to let him go. And how in the heck does Rice's comment perpetuate "race-baiting or keep parties in control of playing races against one another"? In any event, is not the issue whether her statement is true, not what the consequences of telling the truth might be? I think Rice is probsbl right---as a nation we will never be free of racial prejudice. And what is wrong with that? The great black economist Thomas Sowell has made a compelling case that favoring one's own ethnic and racial sub-group is normal and ought be considered perfectly acceptable. Is that not the essence of freedom? It is invidious government discrimination which should be regarded as problematic. No where does Rice justify that.

Why, she nailed it.

Rob;

Reading comprehension is your friend, if you choose to accept it as such.

Had Rice said humans were likely never to be race-blind, that would have been a far more accurate statement and made a considerable difference. Instead, she chose to roll out the ol' victim/race card of "slavery" and keep the ball rolling for race preferences, de facto reparations, and de jure discrimination.

Agreed

Dude. . . . . slavery happened.

It is taught in schools, in history class.

Just like The Depression, or WWII, it has lasting effects.

That does not justify current race policies. But neither does denying it.

BMT

Show me where anyone has tried to deny it?

Show me where and who continually brings it, citing it (almost always alone) as a source of ills, and who benefits from the same.

The reason and purpose for continually citing slavery as the root of problems in the U.S. is to perpetuate the system I described, for exactly those reasons I described, and for the benefits I described.

Rice played that card, for those reasons, instead of taking the opportunity to make a more accurate statement without the political, race-baited, connotations.

My interpretation is that people will always notice differences in the cultures and races, they will never be totally colorblind, however racism would be a lack of respect towards those of those differences.

You read a lot more into the statement than is there.

BMT

Agreed, and thank you for agreeing with and supporting my position on this.

If one ethnic group treats another ethnic group differently, based solely on the group membership, that's racism. If you notice the distinction between your ethnic group and another ethnic group I don't believe you can avoid treating them differently. The treatment lies on a continuum, and at some point on that continuum gov intrudes and criminalizes the behavior. Our Govt. is patently racist (i.e., Affirmative Action).

You've been called out regarding your "obvious" claims about somone else's agenda and, given the opportunity to show your mettle - you faint. In the future, no attention to your empty, worthless claims - Minimumdood.

I agree affirmative action is racism. I'm not sure where all this is going in regards to Rice. If she endorsed affirmative action, I missed that clip.

We got off on a tangent when I asked you how you differentiated racism from noticing the difference in other ethnic groups.

Good. Put me on ignore so I don't have to read your conflicted, inane drivel.

Wow.

No, I didn't. What wasn't said was as powerful as what was. Slavery involved two races; race relations (race-blindness) involve all races, including but certainly not limited to those two.

If Rice were actually trying to make a statement about race relations, her focus would not have been so narrow as to only highlight two involve races and only one nation. She played the race card in the U.S. for the reasons stated and cited.

Just as I figured - on top of being a know-it-all and chicken---- when it comes to defending your ignorant oddball statements, you ARE screwed up in your mind. Placing you on "ignore" (which I have never done to anyone) would not in any way affect what YOU read. YOU have to make choices about your consumption - got it?

One does not have to use the "ignore" feature in order to ignore someone, and - besides - sometimes it is entertaining to know what the chicken---- folks are saying.

Never is a really, really long time.

1flier

I'll write slow so you can follow along. If you have any high school-aged kids ask them for help.

You are truly one [bleep] up individual; it's no wonder you staked out an indefensible position on Condi, then tried to throw up a smokescreen and hope no one noticed your dumb-[bleep] conclusion about what Condi said.

On to more pressing matters, which could be damn near anything, than your opinion of Condi's statement.

If you put me on ignore, then you won't see what I write, and you won't be prompted to respond with the same silly schit you keep spewing on this thread.

Got it?

I doubt it, but one can hope.

Minimumdood - you are hopeless. Even the most expert reader could not understand your twisted prose. My statement was that Condi knows whereof she speaks due to real-life experience, insights and intelligence - far surpassing yours. I gave supporting evidence and never backed away from that or said anything to screen it. No one despises racist behavior or, conversely, race-baiting and taking advantage of the racial situation any more than do I.

You seem to seek race-baiting where it does not exist. While rather incomprehensible, your writing does reveal a troubled and angry person who cannot find a way to support/defend his/her outrageous (and sometimes race-baiting) statements, and who must resort to foul epithets and ad hominem attacks to get some sense of satisfaction. Yes, for purposes of this thread, you are hopeless.

You can only pray that I would put you on ignore - the freak show is too entertaining.

I have seen huge changes during my life time. When I was a kid growing up in rural Virginia Jews were disliked. Catholics worshiped idols. Service members that were stationed in Japan after WWII that married Japanese women found much hostility when returning to America. I have seen hatred toward Native Americans in the Western US & some areas of Canada. I spent time in the Middle East during the 80's & experienced prejudice toward Jews & the US that exceeds anything in America. Rich vs. poor, black vs. white, white vs. black, North vs. South, Mexicans, etc. its all there. All of that said America is still the country of tolerance. I have a lot of respect for Dr. Rice & have no idea in what context the quoted statement was made.

tbear - you are right on. We have done well with these issues in comparison to almost any other country, and no doubt will continue to progress. That is where the emphasis should be - not on sour grapes, or recriminations, or pushing the race issue for gain or out of hate, or ???

The US is not perfect, nor are any of us, but we can and should strive.