You go to school, you spend years studying, you finally pass the boards and then your job is killing babies , how or why would anyone do it ? Who and why does anyone sleep at night and drink coffee in the morning murdering babies ? Your girlfriend or wife knows what you do, you party with friends WTF !

How do these people sleep ?

The world needs more unwanted children raised by incompetent, worthless phucqs. Like we don't have enough already....

They like money. Lots of people like money. They also idolize other people that make money and think people that like money are smarter than others.

Exactly

You know, the more I read about this issue, the more, I think that I might be beginning to change my mind.
I am Republican, right wing, conservative, and evangelical, pro-life, born again……….whatever.
For the most part republicans raise little republicans and democrats raise up little democrats….. for the most part.
It’s also true that the ‘Lions Share’ of abortions are received by those who call themselves liberal or democrat.
According to the latest tally there has been something on the order of 60,000,000 abortions performed since Roe v. Wade, 1973. That’s a lot of ‘swing vote’…..
Thank you!
Personally I find it revolting, repugnant or despicable that one could find anything that could be called good in this unholy mess.

Do you feel the same way about children that die as collateral damage in wars fought for no other reason than the financial gain of a few individuals?

Money is only perceived as evil by folks that have never worked hard to earn any.

Muffin , I hate to say it but at this point in my life i feel the same way .

Remember what the Nazis said about the Jews:

They were not, to us, quite human.

Same idea. To those people the fetus isn’t a person yet, just a bundle of cells.





P

When I see the demographics and party affiliation of the vast majority of those involved I don't feel quite so bad.
The last thing we need is more of them.

Gods economy will ultimately take precedence over our near-sightedness and selfishness.

Quit hiding behind religion. Your behavior on this forum in no way resembles the teachings of the Bible or any other religious text.

Started a late career in medical equipment as a mobile biomed tech servicing equipment including our line of anesthesia machines. Made a scheduled maintenance call on a small "clinic" with just one machine. Found out later from the sales rep it did abortions. Can't tell you the creep that spread over me. 1980, early on so hadn't even considered the possibility. Put me in a bad way about future visits. Gladly for me and those not yet killed they closed before my next visit was due. But even being young at the time don't think I could have gone.

My feeling now doesn't even make it to the religious aspect. How can one human being horrifically kill another unborn and innocent? But the answer encompassing both religious and secular considerations is "EVIL". Evil exists and is personified in this morbid trade. Considering the religious aspect, I accept the reality of God Almighty who created me and knew me before I was in my mother's womb. He tells me I am fearfully and wonderfully made. And he tells me that the evil one comes to kill,steal,and destroy. They serve the evil one and none other.

My beliefs may differ from yours, but in the back of my mind I think abortion doctors will have one hell of a lot to answer for one day when they cross over the river, as will the participants.

Jimy,

Take a few moments to contemplate the demographic, cultural, and electoral college shift in this country you are advocating for.

Is that what you really want?

We have lots of problems in this country but NONE of them are solved by killing innocent people.

Lightweight.

Were they puppies, people would go to prison . We are talking about humans......

So will we all.....so will we all.

Hypocrite

The deliberate and intentional slaughter of completely innocent human life is just wrong, regardless of religion, or arguments of convenience.

Oh look at Mr. introspective. LOL.

GMAFB.

If you're against abortion maybe you should attend a peaceful protest. That'll stop it in it's tracks. Or if you're for killing babies, maybe you should attend a peaceful protest for a womans right to choose murdering her baby.

I hear peaceful protests are very effective at getting the rest of the people to see things your way. How'd that work out in Va again?

Oh yeah, I remember now. It didn't.

Dumbfucque.

No moderation! Anything goes.

If you don't have any skin in the game its none of your business. Its been going on forever always will.

Then you pick up a knife and cut a hole in the back of a babies head so you can suck its brain out out.................

You sick f~ck, I wouldn't do it to a dog !

This......

The fact that there have been at least 3 replies suggesting that since it may decrease liberal voters, it's sorta-kinda OK speaks volumes to the quality of some folks here.

Pretty sickening thought process.


ETA: Well, make it 4 now.

No wonder you made *The List.

Fire ballz is the dumbest SOB with a password here.

Its the democrats supporting these deaths , of their own voters, not only is it sick, but it makes no sense !

They are the ones who pushed for it all.
Yep its murder and wrong.
And we pay for it with tax dollars.

But the overall demographics speak the story of the people that beleive in abortion

If these #,s were alive.
This country woulda been lost 15 yrs ago easily.
The Liberal Socialist Democrats dont even seem to see they are killing off their own voters.
If anything they should be against it.
Totally goes against LBJ,s great society free for life dependant voters plan....

I always found it curious how in unwanted pregnancies the developing human child is always referred to in cold, impersonal, clinical terms as fetus, the sex of which is of no concern, never gets a name, and essentially flushed and forgotten.

When the pregnancy is wanted though it's affectionately and lovingly called 'my baby', and will it be a boy or girl, what to name it...

When does life start? Conception, period.

If you disagree, wait nine months and get back to me.

Because I don't support abortion for the purposes of swinging political votes?

If that puts me on *The List, then sign me up for *The List.

I hold pretty firm to the idea of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This kind of interferes with that. It's less about religion for me, and more about American values and the right to at least have a crack at it.

ETA: Fireball, I misunderstood your post further up the page and misunderstood your position. Apologies for the tone.

Not a whole lot I can get behind Ballz on, but this is one.

I don't come at it from a religious perspective. It's simply evil. Unconscionably evil.

Being clinical and depersonalization allow people to avoid feelings of guilt for their actions.

It's not hard to figure out, unless one tries hard not to, for their own selfish reasons.

Sadly, this is where so many get stuck.

If you think it is OK to intentionally kill an innocent human being, this place has become Nazi Germany. Remember they had their "reasons" too. When folks believe this, the country IS already lost.

I will ask once again, how do you close your eyes, how do you drink coffee in the morning, knowing what your day is about, how do you see your mother on Sunday and explain how much you do for mankind?

Some one cleans the blood off of the floor for Gods sake...................

jimy, you are dangerously close to what the campfire cops call "virtue signaling".

That means you're just supposed to blindly agree with whatever they think.

I drink too much for that ........

Planed parenthood ? who the f~ck kills their kid and calls it planning ?

'...to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves AND OUR POSTERITY...'

Even if you don't believe in religion. Even if you want to make some argument of convenience. This is literally the cornerstone item in the Democrat Party platform. That right there alone should give you a clue that it's fugked up.

Thank you, more eloquently said.

Yep.

"Does a liberal support it?" tends to be a pretty good litmus test, just generally speaking.

If you are one who wants to open up ,and don't wear a mask, I think you might have a log in your eye.

You have got to be kidding.

Simple solution. Snuff the murderers. Mostly libs, as they are, so get more bang for the buck snuffing the mass murderer(aka “doctor”) and the murderess. Triple the fun and snuff the father too, if he pushed for the murder. Be preferable to catch them in the planning stages, and save the child, make adopting American kids possible for good people again. Be worth feeding the incubator/prisoner for a few months. Yeah, I get a bit heartless when thinking about what to do with people who think killing defenseless children is ok. Phugg ‘em. They earned it.

What a [bleep] retard you are.

Note even close. You've forgotten about Fubarski and Bear.

Never forget, good is not the only powerful force

The irony of this thread is how many self righteous campfire members feel completely the opposite about this killing:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/14854969/1/trayvon-martin-ii

The OP to which you replied was not aimed at some problem associated with the presence of the unwanted, incompetent and worthless - it asked how a person manages to live with his/her decision to make a living by murdering innocent babies. The inquiry was on a moral plane and addresses one of the fundamental matters in human existence.

Although we have our share of troubled and troublesome folks, how would you assume that every baby murdered via abortion has been destined to be unwanted and/or be raised by incompetent and worthless people. That assumption seems to lack basis and it deflects seriously from the principle theme of the OP.. Some folks seem to be able to come up with professed good reasons for killing babies in the womb, but blind prediction of personal outcomes is a new one here.

So, the OP prompts one to wonder still - how does a person bring himself/herself to participate in such wholesale abortion, and how does that person rationalize such acts as being decent human behavior?

Well hell, third place ain't bad.

Google 'aborted babies' and look at the photos. They're too gruesome to post here.

The Israelites were a mighty kingdom after separating from Judahs joos and took over many heathen contries.
It is written that they remembered God but celebrated the heathen traditions, those followed the edicts of Satan and the heathens followed the practice of killing and even eating parts of them, that being the most ungodly slap in Gods face.
Israel started going down and Jeroboam asked God what he could do. God said it's too late.

Where Babylon Roman Empire captured Judah, Assyrians captured the Israelites.

Later, the Incas and Mayans fell to the same.

Now the US has also followed that path. First with abortions which progressed to post partum abortions, infanticide and now the top heathens eat children, pizza, and drink adrenochrome.

Do you really believe this?

Ya got a source for it?

I don't mean to be obtuse. I assume you refer to "pizzagate." But I can't tell if you are serious..... or joking here.

Doc buys his tinfoil by the train load.

There's an analogy I've used here before concerning this subject. It bothers me still.

Your hunting on a perfect early fall day. Just a breeze, plenty of sun. Working thru a semi forested area you stop at the edge of a steep hollow. Across from you is an open glade in the timber. Just the right spot for who-knows-what to show up so you sit and lean against a tree taking it all in. Suddenly you hear muffled voices and shouts across from you getting nearer to the glade. Then the voices become shrill screams and the shouts become low toned deep laughs. Quickly a young girl runs thru the opening and hides behind a tree. Another scream and a second young girl runs into view, a man with a large knife close behind. Before you can think straight he stabs and slashes her then lets her bloody body fall. Now your rifle is to your shoulder and your scope finds its target.

Now it's all up to you. You know what's about to happen and you know you can stop it. But if you kill the murderer, the one who will surely murder again as you wait, are you a murderer too? Will you be punished? But the bigger question; what if you do not kill the murderer? What are you then?

Some say that is where we are as a society today. The man with the knife wears nice white clothes, drives a Porsche. Is he a murderer? We know where he is. What are we?

What say you?

Each is responsible for his actions.

It all depends on what one holds sacred I guess.

We have no idea how things would have been if all them abortions had never happened.

If you consider all life as precious, you have to make life precious..

There's some truth in that birdy.

Then again, one never knows what the doper that got shot robbing the store would have turned out to be if he/she had been given a couple more years to sober up and go to University.

One will never know what might have become of birds if "we" hadn't stopped using DDT. Perhaps other birds might have filled in? Perhaps there would be more fish due to fewer ospreys?

One just never knows, does one?

In my life I have learned that the Ten Commandments and Christian ethics ain't just about the next life, they are rules for happy living here on earth.

And an element of Faith is involved whenever we choose to pass up material gain by not lying, stealing or murdering.

So, did those millions of abortions save us from millions of welfare thugs? Well, life often turns out quite different than what we expected.

Even with those abortions, look where our society is going anyway, maybe its gonna be even worse than our worst imaginations of what things would have been like without abortions.

High IQ white women go to college and learn not to have babies.

Only the stupid survive.

But low IQ + male hormone = violent crime.


I guess no one survives.

Oh wait, we can be overrun with immigrants.... they can have the country.

Maybe our immigrant replacements can do something about that college learning.

You are swining a tennis racket at fast balls, aborshion Dr's are stomping on wet concrete !

Very well said, my feelings exactly!

Another small tidbit on the abortion industry. In PY 2018 Planned Infanticide did over 340,000 abortions; 40% of all done in the US. Abortion revenue was approximately $190,000,000. The Demoroids tried to slide them in for another $80,000,000 in Covid loans but got caught. Hoping it'll be returned with fines if our AG is willing. Beasts.

The nazis said the same about the Jews and several other groups of "undesirables".

I was adopted so you can maybe figure out where I stand. I still read my bible most days. And my CCW is on me as I type. Guess I'm pretty scary to Libs! Be Well, Rustyzipper.

Romans 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit

That’s how they are able to sleep at night
By calling it a fetus

I’d shoot him and sleep well that night

How many railing hard against abortion have adopted an unwanted child or two? Foster parent?
Ballz? Jimy?anyone? If we're gonna bring 650,000 more parentless/unwanted children a year, into a system where there's an average of only 400,000 in foster care/seeking adoption at any time, about 800% more folks are gonna have to step up to the plate and take some of these kids in.

Anyone ready to take in a few?

Moral cannibals eating their own.

It’s all about the money, all they care about. Somebody’s gotta do it, might as well be me.

Not my job to raise someone elses child, but kudos to those that do.

Your arguments are empty. Abortion is murder. The argument stops there.

In EVERY case, for every dead infant, there is a mother that said “ yeah, ok, kill my baby”.

650,000 children a year being "raised" by folks who not only don't have the desire to do it, but have neither the economic resources, the mental stability or the sobriety to do it.
What could go wrong? Everyone will be able to "sleep at night" then though, because at least they weren't aborted. You should be just as passionate about protecting children from physical abuse, mental abuse, starvation, and being left to raise themselves because 95% of the idiots who will be forced to keep them should be shot in the head to begin with.

Pretty much what I figured the replies would be. Bunch of talk til the heavy lifting starts.

WTF does that even mean? Pretty sure there's something in your hallowed text that mentions not judging other, lest being judged yourself? Hopefully for you they don't require an I.Q. text to get through the pearly gates.

I'm not for abortion but without it the US of A would of been no more years ago. Abortion and euthanisa go hand in hand in my way of thinking. I want to be able to go to sleep when the time comes and not suffer through a prolonged terminal illness so the medical industry can suck the life and money out of my family. The main question I have, is how can a Christian person be for the death penalty and against abortion? We quit Bible study with all the hippocrates over that question.

What say you ?

At least the girls had a chance to run away.

A fetus,,, not so much.

Reading your posts here makes one assume that you’d be the Poster Person for Pro-Choice.

As an adult, I support your choice to “go to sleep” when the time comes. As long as you choose it, and you are not suffering from dementia or Alzheimer’s and being sold on it by some schmuck who has an agenda. Or worse, you “go to sleep” because someone else decided it was time, before you are ready. Which is where euthanasia will wind up eventually, because the people pushing it are the same ones pushing abortion and other anti-human actions.

As to against abortion and for the death penalty, it is simple. If it confuses one, perhaps they are in need of repair with regard to a moral compass.

Abortion is murder, because an innocent and defenseless human is killed without just cause. The death penalty is applied to violent criminals, often those who have killed innocent and defenseless humans, after due process. For as long as humans have existed, there has been a distinction between murder and justice. The fact that so many people are confused by it today is telling.

You don’t understand the differences between murder and justice?

Amazing to compare the two. Amazing.

They're soulless - and they use pills..

You're right. Killing them is the only answer. I often wonder how a nation on one hand thinks abortion is nothing involving a living child and than on the other hand can prosecute a person for fetal homicide.

Still, you have not addressed the moral issue wrapped up in the murder of innocents. And, in that you seem rather consumed with making a more perfect, or at least less troublesome, society through some "purification" process ("idiots - - - should be shot in the head to begin with"), maybe you would settle for simply killing the percentage of current and deficient adults that do not meet your social standards. To you, that might be practical, eh? It could be interesting to see you explain the moral rationale for what you post.

More than a few innocent people have been unjustly murdered by the death penalty. Life and death can require some difficult choices. When a 14 year old boy knocks up a 13 year old girl I'm sure glad there's other options than having a child.

Pretty easy for me I believe in the death penalty. If your convicted 3 times for DUI or felonies you get a bullet behind the ear. It won't fix the abortion issue but it'll sure help.

Jeebus....we absolutely hate welfare.....but absolutely hate abortion.

Cry about demographic shift.....but bitch about big families.


Sheesh.

Dawned on me a long time ago that job’s gonna get done with a coat hanger or a qualified doctor and I have no dog in that fight. It’s legalized murder, but since people that feel stronger about it are more apt to blog about it than do anything, I’m good just minding my own business.

What I could do without, however is paying for it with my tax dollars.

Abortion is appalling. They are innocent.

But society lets rapists and murders live for years.

We fight wars to protect our freedoms and our ideology pretty much constantly for the last 50 years or more. Most of these to fend off either communism or islam. Undeniably these wars comes with collateral damage in the form of civilian casualties, many of which are women and children. We justify this by rationalizing the end result, our freedom, is worth these lost lives. I whole heartedy agree with this. It's Savage and inhuman, but such is the nature of this life.
No different with this debate. We're fighting a domestic war against socialism and no one yet has denied that those millions of aborted children would have grown up to be, by a large majority, liberals. As tight as the divide has been for the last 20 years, this country would have been lost long ago.

Jim, don't forget about the ole Liberal war cry about how people hate handgun violence, yet insist on everyone's 2A right.

Sheesh

Jim, welfare and abortion are both from the same people with the same agenda. And big families are not the problem. Welfare trash having kids to get more money is a problem, easily solved by temporary sterilization as a condition of assistance. Also, decrease the attraction of welfare by making the recipient provide a return of value to the community, such as farming them out to the road department or local farmers to work every day as long as they are on the dole. Make it a last resort, and remove the attraction to create children seen as nothing more than a meal ticket.

We need to have big families, to maintain a viable society. We need to stop immigration completely as well, at least until we sort out our own demographic issues. People who exhibit serious personality and mental issues should be prevented from procreating. We need to streamline the process for financially solvent and upstanding married couples to adopt American children, rather than forcing those who want to adopt to look at Africa and Asia for that. It is prohibitively expensive and very slow to adopt an American child in most cases, which send folks looking overseas for more economical and assured results for their efforts. That needs to stop.

Grown women who get pregnant should be encouraged to keep their child, and helped with finding adoptive parents if that is needed. Young girls who get pregnant are still the responsibility of their parents, and the child should be raised by the family or placed for adoption. If a thirteen year old girl is getting pregnant, it shows a serious lack of attention by the parents in the vast majority of cases, which in no way justifies the murder of an innocent child to prevent the family from being inconvenienced.

Make people live with the consequences of their actions or lack thereof, and personal responsibility will make a comeback. My girls understood early on that if they got pregnant, childhood was over, and they would be expected to be a mother and provider to that child. They knew that I was not going to coddle them and blame it all on the father, and life would get real tough, real quick. They are in their twenties now, and neither has a child yet. Both value children enough that, if they got pregnant, abortion would not be an option. We have to be responsible, and like everything else we teach them, we have to pass on morals and responsibility to our children. And as a society, we have to create options for children who are the product of irresponsibility that do not include killing them before they ever have a chance at life. It may not be pretty always in the interim, but it needs to happen if we are to remain a viable society. A society that kills its children is destined for the dustbin of history.

I personally don't like abortion, but it is a medical issue between a woman and her doctor. There are many reasons why a woman wants an abortion, ranging from convenience to saving her life and all degrees in between. It is not my place to question her motives nor her doctor's.

I do find it interesting that many here on the 'fire rail at any any suggestion of government intervention into THEIR own person lives, but favor governmental intervention into this medical issue.

Anyone ever hear of birth control? Tax breaks for adoptions, how about better education, Even pay people to get "fixed" both women and men, all so many of these young people do not want any more children yet see no options, kids having sex is never going to end, but kids being pregnant can. We pay for their lifes choices one way or another, there are far better choices than abortion.

But that wasn't the question now was it ?

No one would sacrifice a minute to make those changes.

Those same people who support abortion would gladly take your guns there genius.

Its not my place.......go lay down.

Some of us do every day, its called parenting, and it sacrifices nothing ! .

"We need to have big families, to maintain a viable society."

Big families can be had by paying each woman having a baby (either in or out-of-wedlock) an annual amount of (say $1,700) for each child. This is what they do in Japan.
see: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/01/why-people-in-japan-are-being-paid-to-have-babies

On the other hand, who are you to regulate morality. If you believe something, that's fine, it's your business. But who are you to impose your moral beliefs or regulate another persons beliefs?

The pregnancy/abortion rate for 15 and younger is the lowest of all age groups with 15 to 19 second lowest, the highest being 20 - 24 with second highest 24 - 29. One or more prior abortions runs close to half across all age groups with 30 and over the highest.

Supporting families and abandoning the welfare state? On a national level?

What?

JM, my wife and I would take on some children in a heartbeat, as our own. Tried it lately? Better have lots of money, be ok with only having them for a little bit, and having the government involved in it every step of the way. That’s just being foster parents. Adoption is much more convoluted and expensive. The problem is not a lack of folks to take kids in, it’s all the roadblocks placed in the way by the government. The agenda is depopulation, and abortion and societal destruction are simply two facets of it. Ask yourself, why is a guy whose father was the head of Planned Parenthood and a noted eugenics supporter, and who has publicly stated his own belief that the world’s population needs significant reduction, so interested in vaccines? You want to take a shot from that guy?

Depopulation is a wide-ranging and many-faceted project with a lot of money and people behind it. We need to be fighting it tooth and nail, having big families and raising them up to be responsible and do the same. We need to stop the murder of innocents in our own society, and make it attractive to create loving homes for unwanted children. These [bleep] have been working hard at destroying our society on a lot of fronts for a long time, and getting it back is not going to happen simply by shooting the ones you can see in the face. We also have to fix the rot they have planted in our midst, and make the nation a light on a hill again, rather than an example of what not to be. Stopping the murder of innocent children would be a good start, but just saving their lives is not enough. We have to make a society that fosters them once they are here, too.

I agree that our Justice System isn’t a perfect one but dna doesn’t lie. You’re right about the difficult choices involved.

It can be different when it comes right up to a person’s front door step.

No....its called the adoption industry.

A “medical issue “, you say ?

Liberty is messy. It leaves big gaps in outcomes that big-headed “experts” then feel they can step into and “solve”.

These questions get especially messy when one persons apparent right steps on the right/rights of another. That’s the situation with abortion; seems to me one of the clearest and most universally recognized forms of injustice is to make a child pay for his father’s crime yet we do it constantly.

The argument that the lives stopped by abortion aren’t worthwhile ones ignores the messiness of liberty without recognizing the core issue. The problem is that we have allowed govt “experts” to make the consequences of poor decisions less painful. The solution to that isn’t to trample the liberty of the innocent but to hold responsible the guilty party.

We as a country have fallen from the firm stand we once took that “all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights”. First principles that once guided us through the messiness of liberty are now ignored.

It’ll be the end of free society as we know it and we’re seeing it before our very eyes.

Clearly it’s a medical issue for both patients; most often of much heavier weight for one than the other.

It makes no sense in the short term, but the liberals are nothing if not long term thinkers. The end game is that once they have sufficient power, then the abortion machine will be turned on those who don't support them. It will be the children of conservatives who will be killed in the womb. Those who are born will be taken from their parents. That's how I see it playing out, others will poo-pah the idea that such a thing would ever happen here in the US. I used to think that too, but I am seeing and hearing things in this country that I never dreamed possible.

Wife and I decided long ago we didnt want kids. Took no chances, got a vasectomy. No big family for us. Guess we are part of the problem too then?

So a man could label you undesirable and kill you since that’s his morality? I mean c’mon; who are you to regulate the morality of another?

Or, perhaps you agree that the line limiting one man’s freedom is the point at which it impedes those of another?

1st i sleep terrible every night in pain always at 67 years of age.

2nd Abortion is just wrong we as humans who truely believe in Christ our Savior and God know it is a form of killing. and that is a SIN against GOD ! these liberals are against God ,Guns and now Trump,there wil be a day of reckoning !

I adopted an unemployed possum.

I sleep like a non-aborted baby most every damned night.

Took me 50+ years to realize that there are things of which I just can't control.

All the myriad of issues we face as a society can be nicely packaged up and placed in one of two categories.

It's a spiritual battle and all issues fit into either the "good" or the "evil" box.

it takes no brain power whatsoever to figure out which box abortion fits into, for those not spiritually blinded by their own desires and selfishness. No surprise at all jackmountain can't see that.

Brian Power to the Rescue 💩💩💩

Yeah, like bacon and eggs. The chicken is involved. The hog is committed.

If it’s not “necessary “ then it’s not a medical issue. It’s a choice. That’s why it’s known as Pro Choice and not Pro Medical.

Jmo

They know there's at least a chance of preventing you or someone from your bloodline from infecting the rest of the species.

Is that you Brian?

How you been?

Good morning to the campfires favorite troll.

Old folks is a burden too, so we should slip them the needle, could be done quite painlessly.

But as to your argument that women getting abortions are too drunk/stoned/down and out to raise a kid.....

...that don’t seem to be the majority of abortions. IME abortions are most often gotten by women for financial/convenience reasons. As in “a baby doesn’t fit into my plans right now”. Same mindset that is driving women away in droves from marriage and any children at all. All just parts of the Satanic madness that is crushing Western civilization.

OTOH I have been occasionally humbled by the courage of some pregnant teenage high school girls, their whole friggin world is about to be upended and rearranged, yet they go through with it “because it’s not the baby’s fault”. Of course, that class of kid is likely to succeed anyway.

Well said I’d not thought of it from that point of view.

The Louisiana Department of Public Health says:

"One out of 8,475 women dies from pregnancy complications. The most common causes of death for pregnant women are:
- Emboli (blood clots affecting the heart and brain);
- Eclampsia (high blood pressure complications affecting pregnancy);
- Heavy bleeding (Hemorrhage);
- Sepsis (severe infection);
- Cerebral vascular accidents (stroke, bleeding in the brain); and
- Anesthesia-related deaths.

"Altogether, these causes account for 80 percent of all deaths relating to a woman's pregnancy."

So, I do think there are some medical issues that may come into play.

There are additional medical issues as well that may make an abortion necessary. BUT, the big issue to me is I don't want other people to inject their moral values into others lives. And, from what I see in many postings here, isn't this what most here demand as well?

I agree, "If it’s not “necessary “ then it’s not a medical issue. It’s a choice. That’s why it’s known as Pro Choice and not Pro Medical"

But then, my ancestors come to America is 1657 to have the freedom to make up their own minds. Who is in a position to inflict their moral beliefs on another?

Adoptions would be much more common if it wasn't so expensive. I've heard of couples paying as much as $50k and 20 to 30k is common. There are millions of good solid couples out there who would love to adopt but they simply don't have the means. My question is, who gets all that money? Lawyers? Agencies? Someone has to be raking it in.

You have a better way with words than I do.

So it is a proven fact that liberals hold the count for the most abortions performed in the USA, interesting.

Just that in itself makes me wonder about another statistic that may possibly exist, as in the case of, how many Non-Christian opposed to Christian abortions are performed each year.

Does anyone here have enough knowledge or study of the subject to speak to it?

Lynn

Strange that anyone would inject the “morals” argument into stopping a beating heart of a defenseless human that has its own dna, separate of the host mother’s dna.

Who is in a position to inflict that upon another living being ?

I guess you do have the “freedom “ to kill the defenseless and dependent.

I personally do not know anyone who works in the abortion industry sector. My original post was about the Dr.'s but there are plenty of others involved, reps and sales people that earn a living providing the tools these services to make it all happen.

I think it was Clint Eastwood that first said " that dying isn't much of a living " , I can see that more clearly now.

Once again how do these people sleep knowing what tomorrow is going to bring ?

Does anyone take donuts to work on those special days , birthdays ,holidays, how about Christmas bonuses ?

How do doctors that perform abortions sleep at night?

Probably next to a naked, hot lady. All while giving zero f*#%s what anyone else feels about their life choices.

Just like every other adult.

Yessir.
We can all justify what we do.

The practice likely contributes to reduced welfare rolls to some degree. Probably get flamed, but I see it as a personal choice, whereupon if it's not me and mine, I have no say.

Humans have killed one another and every other species since the beginning of time over nothing but differences in opinion or greed. I see no shift in the near future.

Have not read anywhere near the whole thread, but Cookie and I did an early term procedure early in our marriage and college careers when we were living on the financial edge. Had we not done so, the unscheduled responsibilities would have required our withdrawal, and our income and experiences over the following 40 years would have been about one third of what we've actually accomplished.

Likely many similar experiences here, but few are willing to own up.

I gotta disagree. Some things are not justifiable. Murdering children is one of them.

Wanna see heads explode? Propose a law that says "Pro Choice" means you get to choose being on welfare or having a baby - but not both.

“The Individual “, Gruff.

Just like you can justify what you do. Others do the same even for what you and I would call heinous. Those that do so on a regular basis can and do justify their actions.

We ain’t talking what’s right or wrong.

Exactly WRONG! It's not the babies fault. They don't deserve death. It's the communities fault for allowing worthless parents to keep their babies, particularly when there are lots of people out there who would love to have them.

RR, you’d make a damned fine HEW Secretary !!

Ricky, it’s not so easy as we’d like to think that it is.

I flew back and forth to China for 9 years and on every return flight to the USA there were many couples returning with adopted Chinese infants.

Why ya reckon that is ?

Not meant to be a trick question.

Okay, first off I am no abortionist. I do not even know anyone who has had an abortion.

But as to how do THEY sleep at night?

Murder is, to most people, the destruction of a sentient being, a thinking mind, a soul. Without an active thought process, there can be no soul, there can be no murder. Thus, it is okay to pull the plug after the EEG has gone flat on the accident victim.

And we can slaughter chickens, hogs, cattle, ground squirrels, deer and elk.

And abortionists can do what they do and sleep well at night.

There are many who ask how we as hunters can sleep at night. It is a matter of perspective.

or reduced funding....One child payday! A second child will incur a welfare reduction of $250 a month. A third child $500 is subtracted from the original handout.

Ummm, better odds of getting a smart Asian baby then something that fell out of a ghetto drug rat? Snark, humor, grins

Huge tax credit........
Like 6 to 8k IIRC.
Had a major in Rotc that did it back in 05 06 time frame.

Same dude also paid for a enclosed pen buffalo shoot on some rez out west.
Literally a chain linked fenced in corral like they kept horse,s in prior to clients showing up to whack tatonka......

I hear ya.

Over the years I talked with many of these adopters and the resounding theme was about the “process “ here in America. I know there’s reasons for such an arduous process but the folks I conversed with said it was grossly overdone.

Again, good reasons for it,,,,,,,,

Strange thing is that so very few of those Chinese babies ever cried during that long flight. Very rare.

Equating children to animals is not a matter of perspective.

I can take the devils advocate side and argue damn near anything for fun, and often do.

This and rape are the 2 things I do not joke about or argue for fun.

Many milages vary on this. As evident everytime the topic comes up.

A very good friend of mine has 2 chinese kids he adopted. Sweet kids.

My wife has a friend who has a couple russian adoptees, and a couple indian kids. She couldn't have any more after the first 2, and they had the means, ability, and desire to foster and adopt more. The process here in the States is brutal, and when you're talking tribal kids? Forget about it. They want someone else to raise them, but not adopt them because they want them on the rolls for the $$$.

I don't consider a fetus to be human in the very early stages, at least for the first trimester. Certainly, it is a human in the third trimester. Perhaps we should consider a surgeon who removes a tumor to be a murderer as well, after all, he is removing a living tissue.

You're a brave man northern neighbor.

Well, having their own kid costs a bunch of money too. New clothes for Mom during the pregnancy, prenatal doctor appointments for mom and baby in womb, different nutrition for mom while pregnant, perhaps a larger apartment or house or a remodel of an existing room for a nursery.

And that's not to mention the actual medical costs of delivery, and the insurance costs (that are spread to you, me and the rest of those insured by the company).

If that $20-30K adoption cost is too much for them, perhaps they shouldn't be thinking about adopting even if they aren't capable of having their own kid???

Personal responsibility is the best choice. Birth control and abstinence are readily available to all, perhaps better education of the young would assist them in their choices. Abortion should be available to victims of rape and where the mothers life is threatened but all profitability should be removed from the process.

If our society can reward mothers w/ welfare it should be able to make adoption available to any who qualify w/out obstruction. Pro choice should mean you have the choice not to have sex, or to use birth control. if raising kids is not part of your plan.

To attempt to say that any abortion does not result in the death of a human because of some imaginary time line is indefensible. With Rights comes Responsibility and choice is a Right.


mike r

I love how the pro choice argument works. Everyone gets a choice except the human that gets slaughtered.

It doesn't have alligator DNA. It has human DNA. Does it have a heartbeat? If so, it's a human being.

Mike,

I'm certainly not going to argue the point about the 10 Commandments and ethics. Those, and similar from other cultures, have served mankind in good stead for many a century. And me for a bit less time.

Don't know the complete answer to all of this. Faith? Yeah, I have it or I wouldn't be where I am today, wouldn't have lasted until my 40's most likely.

The argument can be made that for every "Einstein" saved from the abortion table there could be an aborted "Hitler" saved also.

Like I said, I don't have the answer..............and it appears it's not going to get solved here either.

That is your perspective.


They are not children until they are breathing absent a placenta. What they are destined to become, they are not yet.

It is no more morally wrong to withhold the sperm from the egg, than it is to flush the fertilized blastula from the uterus via an IUD, than it is to scrape a 1'st trimester fetus from the womb.

There is not yet a conscience. There is not yet a soul.

That is the answer to how they sleep at night.

It's no surprise you're simple mind can only see two boxes that everything must fit in. It's also no surprise you choose to overlook where you fall short of the literal teachings of the Bible but are first in line to point out others.

It quite fortunate for some people here that their parents cared more about the life on an unborn human than they do.

Long ago I got a woman pregnant, she went and had an abortion, against my wishes, nothing I could do about it and I was willing to do anything necessary.

The following decade when I was married my wife lost three, I don’t expect God works that way but I figured poetic justice, on me anyhow. Fortunately she brung a young son into the marriage and I got to raise him as my own.

For me, Pro-Life is my #1 issue at the ballot box, if that ain’t sacred, what is?

Adoptions? My sister and her husband adopted four kids from Poland,In terms of cost it was about like buying a house, and 15 years later the kids are grown but my sister is still living paycheck to paycheck.

Finally I’ll say it again; all these women getting abortions are not down and out broken alcoholic drug addicts, it’s almost always abortion for convenience, end of story.

2 Aleve and a Benedryl usually does it for me.

The sex of a human "fetus" can be determined via blood test after 9 weeks and ultra sound at 12 weeks

Do tumors develop into male or female?

Can tumors survive outside the host's body beyond certain point to eventually become a functioning individual being?

Do you use the term your "fetus" in conversation with an expectant friend or family member's wanted pregnancy?

No worries Dude, the big sleep comes for all of us, sooner of later.

Daughter gets violently raped, becomes pregnant? You'll tell her no way honey, you need to keep this child.

Wife's dying but could be saved with a treatment that would ultimately kill the baby? Sorry babe, guess you're a goner....

Seriously? Everyone of you would stick to your morals on this in those circumstances?

The ol’ straw baby arguments. There’s always circumstances, but here in the real world the vast majority are abortions for convenience

Haven't read all of this so maybe it's been asked, but I wonder sometimes about the flip side of this debate. When is it morally right to pull the plug on someone? Isn't that also killing a human being?

You're a freaking monster!

Weak arguments that aren't representative of 99.9% of abortions

Actually it’s like football, sometimes ya gotta look at the slo-mo replays to tell if it were a partial birth abortion or murder.

It's a legitimate question. Where does everyone stand when it comes to these situations. Would you be for or against in these circumstances?

Weak that you won't answer, certainly. Time to go on the record. Where's fireballz?

Im not railing against abortion, but we adopted two brothers in the early seventies. Both are great young men serving our country!

Buddy of mine adopted twin sisters, both graduated college this year and doing really well. Outcomes we'd all like to see for sure. Thank both the boys for their service.

Anyone ready to let the wife or daughter die in lieu of taking medical treatments that would save her life yet kill the baby if she was in the first trimester?
Tell your daughter she should give birth and raise the child that resulted from her rape? Is it black and white, good or evil, no in between, or is it ok "sometimes"?

If circumstances ever matter, these sorts of decisions might well fall into the realm of personal choice, personal responsibility, and personal freedom. Freedom is only achieved when individuals take responsibility for their choices. Individual liberty isn’t just a right, but an obligation.

In all seriousness when people think through positions most will consider the issue from a run of the mill standpoint. That is, ordinarily and in general, what do I think of X.

Once the general principle is established, then exceptions can be considered.

In my experience the only people who do it the opposite way are those who have already come to a conclusion, or those who wish to pop a gotcha on the conclusions of others.

Either way it’s illogical; one doesn’t determine a rule based upon exceptions.

Therefore my response to this line of argumentation is, if we can agree that as a guiding overarching principle abortion in the absence of these extenuating circumstances is wrong and ought not take place, then we can move forward with a discussion on exceptions.

Now as to the underlying accusation here of hypocrisy that too is illogical. Just because one individual may not maintain the courage of his convictions in regards to a principle doesn’t make the principle false. It just means he lacks courage of convictions with regard to that particular principle.

If you say so. My three kids and ten grandkids think otherwise. I value their opinions much more than yours.

There are rare occasions when it’s not abortion for convenience, those are different.

Great reply.

Don't tell Flave, but you're still the smartest guy on here

Beaver10 has already deemed another to hold that honor

It’s a mistake that none of the actors/agents in your scenario opt to suspend judgement.

I only wish I was the funniest.

Jack was only kidding.

[b]

This^^

That isn’t an option. To “leave it between her & her doctor” is to come to a conclusion as to the principle in question.

All of these arguments stem from whether you believe the unborn child is a human being. If you believe it is, as many of us do, abortion is murder of an innocent human being, plain and simple. If you don't believe it is a human, I guess you can rationalize any argument you want.

https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

The sex of the "fetus" can be determined before conception by a simple examination of the sperm cell selected to do the fertilization. The sex of the single cell fertilized egg can be determined immediately after conception simply by examination for a Y chromosome.

That does not impart a soul to either the single cell fertilized egg nor the sperm.

And yes, "fetus" is the proper term for late pregnancy.

First there is a zygote, the germinal phase lasting about two weeks, until the zygote attaches to the uterine wall. Then a blastula. And then an embryo until about nine weeks after fertilization. And then it is a fetus until birth.

So those using an IUD around the world are actually performing their own abortion two weeks after conception, once each month.

Then answer my question

Yep that pretty much sums it up.

Probably like anyone else, put their head on their pillow and close their eyes.

A friend of mine served in Vietnam. He said the first guy he killed was the hardest thing he ever did. The second was 10x harder. And after the third, he finished his sandwich. An older friend said roughly the same thing about WW II. I noticed the same thing with shootin' deer when I was about 12. The first one was hard. The next was way harder. The third was nothing. The point is humans can become numb to any action of any sort very very quickly. We don't have to rationalize, we just shrug and do what we perceive as the thing we gotta do, then we go do whatever is next.

Consider the possibility you do things they find just as appalling yet you don't even give them a second thought. Maybe it is killing a deer or a hog. Maybe it is using spray. It doesn't have to make sense to you for it to bother them and the same is true the other way around.

Tom

You don’t understand how to suspend judgement.

Considering this is the number one protected issue in the Democrat platform, Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden all appreciate your continued support on this matter.

Birdy, it is rare that I disagree with your opinions. But on this I must.

Either the act is murder, or it is not. We do not get to choose who we murder out of convenience.

Rape, incestuous rape, medical risks to the mother, does not matter. Either the removal of the embryo is murder, or it is not.

I killed twenty-five apple trees last week without making a determination as to their sex.

Actually, what you presuppose is that killing humans is wrong.

When are we getting that sarcasm font ?

Maybe if we get Conrad to ask Rick for it? Seems he has a bit of pull around this place.

Answer my question. Wife or daughter SOL if they need a medical procedure while pregnant? You gonna tell your daughter she should give birth to, and raise, a child born from rape?

Only the "innocent" ones.

Or possibly the ones standing in the wrong spot when we seek vengeance against our enemies. Those kids are ok to kill if it's in the name of patriotism. In that case it's "sad" or "unfortunate" but necessary.

You came in a close second?

Killing and murder are two different things.

Interesting, those two synopses don't exactly concur.

Also interesting. I wonder how many of the 75.4% of the "No reason" in Florida declined to list and actual reason due to privacy concerns and such. It's said that many rapes are unreported, therefor a woman wishing an abortion that never reported the rape might not wish to give that as a reason when required to answer in order to receive the procedure? I can think of other reasons not to answer that inquiry..........such as "it's none of your business"

Okay, I have reconsidered. I got a vasectomy Dec 31, of 1983. I prevented untold number of babies being born, just so I could engage in recreational intercourse with my wife in an unlimited manner and have no more concerns over her becoming pregnant.

Perhaps, I am a monster.

Dude, that's horrible

Here I am, trying hard and spending good money to get an orchard growing and you kill more trees than I have had a chance to plant in almost 4 years here.

I might have adopted them, but the regulations might have prevented it. We have "bug stations" on our highways coming in from our borders with other States. I can see the look on their faces when I tell them what I've got on the truck.

Circumstances...

You can't unjustly kill what doesn't exist. You're okay

It wasn't close.

Why’d you stop? You have the beginnings of what could be a spectacular circular argument.

^^^THIS^^^

More information wasn't necessary. Killing and murder are in fact different things.

Nyet.

I wish you'd answer my question. If you're wife was pregnant and needed a medical procedure, that would kill the unborn, first trimester child, would you let her die? If your daughter was raped, would you tell her to birth and raise the child?

Nyet?

Can you see Russia from your porch too?

I thought you said that was a decision for the wife or daughter? Now it is your right to know also? Conflicting moral viewpoints, interesting.

Blyat!

One of the dumbest viewpoints put forth on this thread so far. 2+2=squirrel?
I simply want to know if it's a good vs. evil with no inbetween, or if their are some exceptions to the rule.

In your left minded viewpoint anyway. Great second grade comeback anyway.

I'm the furthest thing from leftwing. I simplly refuse to place the same amount of value on a human life that you do.
I think it's arrogant and self serving.

Chingon!

Not when you support the number one issue in the Democrat Party platform.

Filthy lucre is the #1 sleep aid.

Since when did " I simplly refuse to place the same amount of value on a human life that you do. " become arrogant and self serving.

On top of all that, we just gave Planned Butcherhood 80+ million dollars of relief money so they can turn around and give it back to Democrats this Fall. Makes me want to puke.

LMAO...A thread Houston Burning you sure railed against it....Glad you adopted some kids that turned out great. Good job parenting. But, if you think there isn’t a place for abortion, you’re an idiot.

Here’s the rub for those who scream abortion is wrong. Most whollier than thou types never want to step up with cash to pay for all these unwanted kids...Or, do what you and your wife did, adopt.

They prefer to yammer about God and killing, but once it’s suggested that these anti-abortion individuals open there wallets and pay for care, housing, raising, and education of these kids, they all hold their arms up revealing alligator appendages.

The final hypocrisy comes when these unwanted kids become 17-18 yrs of age and perform a horrible crime. The very same anti abortion individuals are now saying kill them.

😎

We both know why you don't want to answer my question. Or anyone else for that matter. Because it's not as black and white as most want to think it is. It's an emotional reaction to a topic that has way too many facets to be boxed into a black or white answer.

The wanton and widespread abortion available in the US and many "developed" countries would be my belief.

Abortion is NOT the Democrats number one issue, not even close.

I [bleep] love this guy.....

I think abortion is lame as hell.

Nobody wants to pay either.

They go to China, Russia, Africa etc.. to adopt due to lack of available children to adopt in the U.S.? Seriously?!
Bullshit. It's the new status symbol for the Joel Osteen Prosperity Theology christians. The third world adopted child has taken the place of their Mercedes SUV in the church parking lot.

Is it me, or is it someone else with issues regarding reading and comprehension?

Because I am LOL at this retort.

The wanton and widespread abortion available in the US and many "developed" countries would be my belief.

Ouch!

No...white kids from clean mothers are weeeeeerrrrrryyyyyy expensive.


My folks got a nice discount cause my native blood.

[bleep] just got real up in this bitch.

At least my mother hasn't been attacked so far in this thread...

That's just dumb bullshit. People have been going outside the US to ease the costs and availability of legal adoptions for decades.

I got nothing against Annie Leibovitz.

A client of mine adopted a child from somewhere in Africa maybe 8ish years ago. He made at least 5 trips back and forth and was black mailed for more money each of the times. By the time it was all said and done he had $25,000.00 or more in the adoption, then 2 years worth of non stop medical bills dealing with all the childs issues.

Yep, real cheap....

And that aint no dumb bullshit.

Haven't you heard? It's Margaret Sanger. Or Nancy Pelosi according to Outlaw Patriot.

I didn’t read the first 90% of this. I only jumped in to support your 21st century view of conservatism.

Gawd....imagine what they could get for me today at an adoption auction?

#exponential

Now I REALLY feel bad about siding with Flave against you in the argument over the seriousness of the Covid threat....

It's not like beef Jim, they don't sell kids by the pound.

Don't give in now.

He just needs your personal email .......

Ya dick head!

Capabilities not weight!

Know a family with 2 biological kids that had a need to help children from another country...China was their destination. They bought, yes, bought two young sisters. Payout was in the neighborhood of $55k for getting the sisters State side.

US doctors discovered one kid had a bone growth disorder that would require ongoing surgeries as the child developed, the other kid has mental disorders and enjoys playing and throwing her shît around her bedroom.

They are having zero fun raising these two Chinese kids, while their biological kids are feeling left out and needing attention.

Not winning....😎

I sent a pic to my buddy the other day, and he said he spent five minutes looking for the corona dude til he realized it was an unrelated meme.

Think that's a fairly common theme.

Its a sad day when you cant trust a baby merchant.

Dude,

and here I thought Native types hadn't much of a sense of humor. Least ways the Apaches I lived around did. Or it was a really dry one.

Thats a nearly true story.

The nuns actually called and asked if my folks were comfortable with some native blood.

Full disclosure I guess.

If you are trying to say that with repetition , systematically killing babies becomes as easy as any day to day action, I'm going to say you are not seeing the whole picture. Everyone that has ever had a job, has friends and family that they socialize with, college classmates, and even neighbors that talk to, barbecue with, have Friday afternoon beers with.

One or more of these associates, will in time become pregnant or already have children, the same children that your livelihood removes from this world, not a comforting situation to be in ,if you are saying, that the typical young woman does not look at an infant and glow , as only a woman ,can look at a grand baby and boast with pride.
I don't believe a person with a soul , just lay their head on a pillow, and soundly sleeps after spending their busy work day killing babies.

I would just as soon spend the evening fine dinning with lepers, than spend a hour baby sitting a kid , anyone's kid !

But killing them is the most heartless thing a human could ever do !

Yeah, in certain circles, if they knew your were going to turn out a somewhat environmentally woke farmer/rancher and a great dad, videographer, and rabbit wrangler...............they could have advertized you in Mother Earth news or something.

Made a mint at least.

Myself, I'm glad things went the way they did. I have someone else here who knows the way of the nun.

One of the local gals at the bar was complaining about the natives getting free stuff. She said (I wish I had a little Indian in me). Joe was one of our local natives at the time told her to go to his car with him and he could take care of that. It was a good laugh. I know this has nothing to do with the thread but Jim reminded me of this. Ed k

Jim it’s the luck of the draw for everyone.

I’m not. He needs all the help he can get. Grins.

If you believe murder is wrong then don't commit one. But don't interfere with the right of others who disagree. It's a personal choice, none of society's business.

Is any of the Anti guys going to state for the record that they'd force their 13 year old daughter who got pregnant through a rape, carry, birth and raise the child? Anyone? Jimy? Ballz? Outaw Patriot?

Doesn’t look like it. Not sure why you’re stuck on this.

I tell the short kids in my class all the time that their parents fed em for years and this is all they got 🙂

To prove a point, of course. I think the silence has proved my point. It's completely 100% immoral, repugnant and evil until it's not convenient any longer. Then its ok.

Do ya, now!

The silence prob’ly proves they have better things to do. A 13 old is not culpable in the pregnancy and could be placed in danger carrying the baby to term.

Better things to do my ass..... So it's ok to murder the unborn baby in that case? Or is it now simply a "medical procedure"?

I morally and philosophically disagree with abortion, however...
I know the demographic of WHO is getting the abortions and I'm glad that they were preformed....if not what do you think the racial and economic makeup of this country would be today?

America would be a full welfare state, 20 percent (maybe) white. The Constitution would have ceased to exist in 1970
Think ...Capetown meets Mexico City meets Cuba.

A life fully lived will be wrought with conflicting allegiances and competing obligations.

Spare us Idi.

It is a medical procedure performed of necessity that terminates the life of an unborn child.

Your about to draw Bristoe's ire

What about clubbing some homeless kid to get his kidney that you need?

So there's a distinction between abortion for convenience and abortion to save the hosts life or dignity?

Like that doesn't already happen.
Doubt you could come up with one single horrific scenario that some poor [bleep] doesnt consider just a normal part of his/her life.

Unfortunately they don't make bumper stickers railing against it that you can plaster over the back of your car to reaffirm your moral superiority over the rest of the world.

It dont matter to me much.

I dont see what can be done when folks dont want babies aborted.....but at the same time dont want to pay to help raise these kids.

Like these dipschits who love to post about black people........but wouldn't lift a finger to change things.


Lot of gum flapping if you ask me.

....life or welfare. Had a kid live with us for a year and a half after graduation, his mom was ELEVEN when she gave birth, he turned out physically OK, his mom survived, but ya I woulda supported terminating that pregnancy.

Or, fortunately!

https://www.stickergiant.com/

Some suggestions?

"Don't club a kidney kid!"
"KIDneys, not ADULTnes" (might need some work)
"Want to join the kid's kidney club? Urine!"
"Steal a kidney, spend your life in the renal colony"
"Need a kidney due to stones? That too, shall pass"

And it would be logical to do so. I agree, it's not a one size fits all issue Birdy, like a lot of people pretend it is. It's simple to make declarations from ivory towers but the optics can be entirely different if/when it lands at your doorstep.

The concise way to say this is – abortion.

The onus would be on the clubber...

The liberal mind would lean towards blaming the club.

Ya, one aborts a fetus.

I prefer the more specific and descriptive term of terminating the life of an unborn child.

Look into adopting an indian as a non-indian at least these days. Discount it aint'.

If i've learned nothing else today, there's more out there I wouldn't kick dirt in their mouth if they were starving.

Good to know.

No kidding?

Damn!

Not even a little.

So Cleburne is fully able to support Mollie and her litter of 11?

😃

I already mentioned people not registering their kids as official Indians until they were high school seniors so as to prevent them being adopted back to the Rez if God forbid both parents died.

Likewise the couple from South Dakota that moved down with us to escape an episode of voilence. He was a card-carrying official Indian according to the blood quotient listed on his I’d but he looked as White as me. His mom died off the Rez when he was young and the way I understand it by law he could only go into the custody of Indians.

The way he said it he was treated as a second class citizen on account of his color his whole life, loose change, almost illiterate, and one eye pointed in the wrong direction, something physical therapy coulda nipped in the bud when he was a toddler if anyone had GAS.

I did. Actually twice. And I already had 6.

This whole subject turns my stomach. And sadly, horrifically, it somehow simply boils down to societal norms. In the scenario painted above, the man with a rifle who shoots a man in the act of murdering a girl is a hero. And any decent REAL man would do the same. Then taking the same rifle and shooting the well dressed 30 something Porche driving doctor who has murdered hundreds of babies and is about to murder more tomorrow, makes that same REAL man a cold blooded killer and society will condemn him to a life in prison. And the same nutless wonders that push abortion won’t allow capital punishment because it’s too terrible to think about.
For what it’s worth, my Bible tells me that it’s not murder to kill to save an innocent life. That applies to the first scenario, not the second premeditation being the deciding factor. As I write this I see the conflicting standards and know that if we all lived by Gods biblical roadmap things would be better. But I also know that utopia doesn’t exist and evil is prevalent on this earth. The conflict between good and evil will exist until Christ comes again. I know which side I’ll be on.

No litter yet, they are both freeloading. Had a buddy had a Boston terrier, was real proud of it, good looking dog. He tried to put it out for stud but it turned out to have a low sperm count So it can happen, prob’ly is the case with your loser lab too.

No worries, send me your address and I’ll send ya a puppy.

Least I can do.

Its actually hard to tell. A lot of y'alls posts are indistinguishable from liberal Democrats.

Cleburne shootin blanks.

Hahaha, all them years sleeping under the transformer piles at the substation.

I can only hope.

But.... my sister wants a puppy, so does a nephew, if there is any. Only been six weeks.

Devastating to my argument. Crushing blow.

Now there’s a pregnant thought.

Well played, MM.

Not to mention approvingly smiling at the use of American taxpayers’ money to support Pro Choice.

Fuggin Democrats, indeed.

Seems like I often get called a liar around here.

Anyways, that Indian couple knew to come down and stay with us on account of some years earlier a relative of mine had found the remains of a deceased relative of theirs on the grounds of West Point. Said long term association having some connection to a nephew’s acceptance at that place.

Small world; the deceased turned out to be a family member of the very same people I has stayed with when I dropped off a load of blankets up there in ‘84.

Tried my best to derail this unwinnable thread with kidney jokes.

This thread is just offal. I'm going to be like, "urethra!" when this thing is over. Am I boiling the piss outta these kidney puns yet?

Offal has its uses, Duck.

It helps to label those liberal labelers among us. Strange how that works sometimes. Moosemike spelled it out very well.

How many children have you adopted again?

What’s the going street rate for a kids organs? They’re small, so do they offer a bundled deal for different parts?

Yeah, it’s funny, unless you’re all butthurt over this thread...Are ass-holes an organ?

😎

So if you're wife was raped and became pregnant, you'd be good with her carrying the baby and raising it as your own?

If you were talking to me, I have no idea what Idi means.

I thought we were going with one size fits all.

I would like to ask any Bible scholars reading this where in the Bible it says that life begins at conception. The Bible does not mention (as far as I know) abortion per se. The procedure had not been invented yet. In the Roman Empire, and probably other ancient civilizations, they disposed of unwanted babies by simply taking them out to the garbage dump and leaving them. If someone wanted to take them, fine and good. If not, fine and good.

An issue seems to me to be when the fetus becomes a human being. Certainly by the time it's capable of living outside the womb. But is it even conscious during the first trimester? What constitutes human?

Can't believe no one's stepped up and said "yes, I would rather my wife die of cancer than take chemo that would kill our unborn child, and I would advise my 13yr old daughter to carry, birth and raise the child of her rapist rather than commit the sin of abortion"

Was the guy good-looking?

Then again, all them child support liabilities go out the window.

I’m gonna just sit and watch how this well asked question is gonna get handled.

😎

So if your wife was raped and became pregnant, you are willing to murder the human result of that, which is guilty of nothing? Is murder of an innocent life better or worse than rape? The child of rape committed no crime. They did not choose or ask to be created in that manner. And you have no right to kill them. The rapist? He would be a dead man, yes? That is justice. Killing the child that results is murder, because that child is innocent.

I also like the way a person has to raise the child. Adoption is no option for this case. It’s either murder the child or raise it as your own. Specious argument, and beneath you.

So it's ok to abandon them to an admittedly broken system but not end their life before it really begins?

Quit giving them all the answers to the test.

😎

I find the idea of sucking a kid out of a womb to be abhorrent, but in 2020 I think it is reasonable to limit abortion to the first trimester. Regardless of circumstances.

If consensual sex is involved, I don't think abortion should be allowed without a biological father's consent.

As far as clubbing a homeless person for an organ, I'd have to know what that gig pays. Because homeless people are disgusting.

Oh, and I think that morning after pills should be handed out like M&M's.

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you

JFC.

You usually just mouthy troll, but in this thread, you've become a whiny fuggin beotch.

Your question has already been answered, more than once.

Go back and see efw's reply on page 9, and my subsequent reply.

Many of us here here think the action is abhorrent, and disgusting, myself included, and we form a platform based on the majority of circumstances. You, apparently are not one of those folks. Congrats.

But a handful of us also realize there may be extenuating circumstances where as terrible as it is, it may make sense, as terrible and sad as it may be. There are a subset of men who understand life isn't always black and white, and 99.9% of the time we have a moral code, but there may be an extenuating circumstance (abortion due to rape or incest, killing someone who is killing your child, etc) that may be a possibility. Is that what you wanted vindication on? There. You have it. JFC.

It's like you are ROOTING for the pro-life libtard commie agenda.

GTFO.

By that logic, you were a person before procreation so prophylactics, masturbation, pulling out etc... Is all murder.
God help us all.....

Wife and I just talked about your scenario, jackmountain. If she was raped, the baby would live. Most likely we would raise it. As our own. It is innocent of any crime, and is part of my wife. The best way I can trash any memory of the criminal(who would be executed, likely by me if I could catch him) would be to raise the child that is part of him to be better than him, and make something good out of the evil that was perpetrated.

Killing the child makes me at least as evil as the rapist, even worse, in my mind. A woman can recover from rape, and go on living. To stop the life of an innocent and defenseless child for my own convenience would be far worse.

I can see from this thread that there are a lot of folks with terribly skewed morality, and like Billy Goat Gruff, gotta tell them, I would not cross the street to piss on their teeth if their gums were on fire. Those who support murder of children are equally as evil and repugnant as those who commit the act. May God have mercy on their souls, perhaps enlighten them and bring them into His light, and give them a love for the defenseless and innocent.

Even if it's black?

That's kinda gross.

4 hours to get one idiot to admit he's a hypocrite.

I dunno, seems like those who were abandoned to an "admittedly broken system" rarely commit suicide despite having years and years of opportunities, so I guess that's a "Yes".

Raise it like a cash crop, folks that need an organ are color blind, best return would be an auction.


mike r

What? You know better than this...

Thanks, Mike, but that's kinda vague. If I'd read that and never heard of abortion, I would think it meant that God knows all things that will happen. Also what does "formed" mean? If it means formed as a human, that takes place in the womb but sometime after conception. Not arguing with you but I'm perplexed still

Also I just looked up Jeremiah. It seems God may be speaking about Jeremiah himself, not people in general. Leviticus 27:6 could also be interpreted (and is by some) to infer that early term abortion, within one month, is OK.

I believe there is an organization of persons born of rape, and at least one became a medical doctor.

Something to think about.

Paul

The damn thing is a life at conception. Anyone that says otherwise is an idiot. Once that egg is fertilized it's up up and away, like it or not.

I will answer Jackmountains question about rape and the life of the mother. BTW, the silence is because some people work during the day, not because they are ducking the conversation, so don't get ahead of yourself JM, you thick-headed son-of-a-bitch. Man do you get ahead of yourself. And you're always there to pat yourself on the back for it.

Before I answer, you need to recognize that each one of us uses some sort of moral barometer to determine "right and wrong". For some, it's whatever they feel, or reason out for themselves, what works for them personally. In other terms, whatever they want with no consideration to something bigger than themselves. "It's all about me". It's pretty easy to recognize when you know what to look for.

Others use some exterior (outside of themselves) form of morality, for a sheitload of different reasons, some solid, some not. This isn't about whether they're right or wrong, simply that they do use something outside of themselves to guide their morality. Religion fits this role. Also some weird and dysfunctional human dynamics could cause one to be controlled by another person.

So, if one chooses whatever works for them, that's the easy one to figure out. Whatever I want, I do, with no thought to anything else. Self-absorbed, selfish, with no regard to anything or anyone but ME. That's the pro-choice crowd. Who cares about the baby, it's not my problem. They assuage their guilty conscience by arguing about "when life starts". How many above have done that? A bunch of people embrace this attitude. It's easy. it's comfortable. No worries, no regrets.I get what I want, end of story. (until judgement day, but they don't believe in a holy God, so that's no deterrent)


When guided by something bigger than your own selfish desires, something you have real conviction to believe, you are forced to consider the ramifications of your actions. If you steal a candybar, you know you will face the consequences if caught. If you drive w/o insurance, you know you run a risk of getting a ticket and having your license revoked. You believe in something outside yourself and that there are consequences to your actions. All the apostles in the Bible believed so strongly in what they seen in Jesus Christ they literally gave their life for it. Nobody gives their life voluntarily for something they don't believe in.

Where people screw up on the abortion issue is, they don't recognize there is an ultimate authority figure regarding human life, and that authority figure is God. If you want your cake (sex outside of marriage) and you want to eat it too (abortion when it suits you), you want nothing to do with God. God's Holy Spirit would convict the sheit out of you for aborting a baby and why in the world would you want that? What non-beleivers don't understand is the presense of God changes your heart, changes the way you think, what you want, and what your moral code is. When God is present in a powerful way, you could not abort a baby if you wanted to with every fiber of your being, SUCH AS IN CASES OF RAPE, INCEST, and SAFETY OF THE MOTHER. A non-believer won't understand w/o the Holy Spirit guiding them to understanding God's economy.

God values all life, therefore all human life is sacred. He specifically speaks about innocents, especially children. They are dear to God in a way that we propably can't even comprehend, but they are precious no doubt about it, no matter how they came to be. By the time they came to be, it was no longer about how they came to be, but that they are.

With that in mind, a believer would answer that ALL human life is sacred, and especially children (innocents to include unborn babies). Willfully choosing to kill a baby does not fit with a believers world view and would be unacceptable, no matter the circumstances. Therefore, a humble and contrite heart would love the Lord God so much, and trust in Him, to the point of acceptance and even embracing of whatever the circumstances they found themselves in.

So, that is the answer Jackmountain. If you're a believer, you believe, no matter what. If you aren't, you do whatever you want with no consideration to any other perspective but your own.


As flawed of a christian as I am, and I am, I wouldn't want to live a life completely devoid of a faith in Jesus Christ and hope of eternity. To believe and trust in Gods provision in our darkest circumstances makes life worth living, thru our darkest times. If not for a faith in God and His ways instead of ours, what hope is there?

I honestly don't know how non-beleivers get through daily life with nothing but their own self-centered thoughts to guide them.

All human life is sacred, none get aborted. Period.

And for the campfire trolls, <virtue signalling font off>

I can't see any black babies being raised in our household under no circumstances.

Grade school remark, as expected. Your scenario is highly unlikely where we live. In the infinitesimal event that such a thing happened, it could change the response to adoption, simply to give the child a better chance in an area where they might not stand out like a sore thumb as much. Then again, maybe not. Guess we’ll cross that bridge if life ever gets there. Not likely. Regardless, a child is a child, and killing infants is murder of the worst kind. We do not get to abandon our code every time it becomes convenient to do so. Either you have a code you live by, or you do not. We do. More people need to.

What about Chinese? I don’t think I’d want that either.

Because then every time you go anywhere people would ask those real annoying questions at social gatherings.

“Oh you adopted? Is he good at math?!?!”

“Uhhh, not exactly...”

Not that anyone was actually looking for a serious answer. LOL.

It sounded like something an African dictator would say.

Red and yellow black and white, they're all precious in his sight, Jesus loves all the little children of the world.....

Jesus loves the little black baby, but old gray wolf is sending it's black ass on down the road. TFF...

That is kind of funny.

A simple yes or no would've been adequate. 6 paragraphs of virtue signaling, and I'm not sure you ever actually said "yes, I'll let my wife die of cancer rather than her take chemo to live, which would kill our 3 week old microorganism". Or "yes, I'd force my 13 year old daughter to carry, birth and raise a child born of a violent rape"

Read it again. You missed a bunch.

You too, Fireball.

Really, I was going for Lao Tzu.

You mean the part where it was for the kids own good so he wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb in crackerville?

Like I said, you are a thick headed son of a bitch. It's all there, black and white.

Keep reading. Or is your attention span too short?

It is so predictable how you fellas like to grasp at the most improbable scenarios to attempt to paint anyone who disagrees with you into a corner. Flame tossed that out as a flippant remark and a joke. Then here you come and latch onto his joke and start painting away. Meanwhile, I answered the question you been asking all day(sorry so late, I was at work), unequivocally. And answered Flave’s joke just as unequivocally, which you attempt to cherry pick to make suit your argument. So you can FRO, and continue your campaign to snuff all the kids you claim nobody wants.

LMFAO

Oh whatever.

You said you'd keep Sven, but send AfroWolf packin'.

What an ass hole.

TFF

My pastor says the same thing.

The Bible says " there is no difference between gentile and Jew". And "God accepts everyone of all nations who believe in him". Why would you send rayquan to the orphanage instead of simply raising him?

😂🤣😎

Are we talking one drop rule here? Mulatos have become quite trendy.

...but raising one will likely require an upper middle class suburban community.

At orphanages.

AfroWolf sounds like it could be a really bad ass schitty movie by the way.

WHAT, them kids are KILLING themselves? I've had more'n a few in class, I suppose suicide is possible but around here that more usually seems to be the ones with actual parents, in response to inner angst as opposed to outwardly difficult circumstance, prob'ly an entirely different situation on Indian reservations I know.

They get adopted really fast....Oh, Harold, look at that child’s beautiful skin color. 😎