I will TRY to post some pctures later today but this weekend while visiting family in North Idaho I took up to my uncle some dies that I was able to locate for my now deceased granpa's old custom rifle in 30 belted newton caliber. Uncle David said that since neither he nor his sons will ever try to handload for this or any other rifle if I could just locate him a good .270 I could take grandpa's old 30 Belted Newton rifle home with me. Needles to say I drove over to grandma's house and got into the gun cabinet imediately and retreived the old rifle. To my great pleasure I also found about 100 rounds of loaded ammo which was loaded up 60 or so years ago by long time family friend Judd Monger who taught me how to reload ammo and from whose loading press came the ammo with which I shot my first deer as well as the next several during my early teens so now the rifle and ammo have DOUBLE memory connections to me.

In the old ammo box is one box from the SPEER company actually MARKED 30 Belted Newton cartridges but none of the brass has a Speer headstamp. Too bad. All of the ammo is MArked Remington 300 Magnum and two of the old Green boxes are marked 300 MAgnum. I cannot tell if these started out in life as 300 H&H brass that udd Monger cut and necked down or if Rem made this brass in its current form. The Midway cartridge identification page says that the 30 Belted Newton is the same thing as the 30/338 which is, of course, the same thing as a .308 Norma which I also bought dies for thinking they would work for Grandpa's old gun beofre I found the set marked 30 Belted Newton. Any one here know if Remmy ever made brass for the 30 Belted Newton or 30/338? The loaded ammo has a few rounds loaded with Remington Bronze points and others with ordinary looking pointed soft points so I will probablly just shoot this stuff up and relaod it with Barnes TSX's.

Enough about the ammo, here is a bit of info about the gun itsself.....

Granpa Tom LOVED really nice rifles and knew his stuff. When he was in his truck driving and hunting heyday he commisioned three custom rifle to be built by California gunsmith Ralph Allison. All were buitl on nicely worked over Mauser '98 actions with lots of polish and shine and had Beuhler low swing safeties mounted on the left side of the action and set up with Bausch and Lomb adjustable scope mounts. As I do not need adustable scope mounts I might replace these with Burris DD's but if I can find B&L rings that fit these I may use them as well. The rifles were in .257 Roberts, .270 (which he used most of the time) and this one in 30 Belted Newton which I do not think he EVER took hunting and I am not sure he even fired it much if at all. .257 roberts is with Aunt Carol and .270 is with cousin Tommy who still hunts with it, I think.

Rifle is done up,like the other three, in a Classic 1950's style with a real Ebony forend tip and grip cap, real ivory white line spacers, nice straight grained Walnut with a modest Monte Carlo raise and cheekpiece and a shadow line underneath of it. All nicely done without the 'rollover' cheekpiece or excessive curves etc. more common of customs done in the 60 and 70's. Pretty much a classic in style save for the modest Monte Carlo raise and cheekpiece. Very light trigger of unknow manufacture with a trigger shoe to make it feel lighter than it is. Barrel is pretty hefty and I have not measured it yet but looks to be 26 inches. I will measure when I get home and take photos.

I Already have a really nice Winchester Classic model 70 in 300 Ultra Mag as well as a custom in 340 Tyrannosaur and so did not need this rifle to fill in any gaps but I do paln to take it hunting this fall and other times in memory of Grandpa Tom. I just thought about calling cousin Tommy to see if we could maybe hunt together some time with him using Toms old .270 and me packing this 30 Belted Newton.

Grandpa tom always wanted to go to Alaska or Canada and hunt for a big bull Moose and never got to. I have a big bull moose on my want list so this rifle will probably go with me on a hunt soon for 'ol Bullwinkle. Other hunts as well.

Info on the 30 Belted Newton Cartridge would be much appreciated. So far my paln is to use data for .308 Norma / 30/338 and just add H4831SC powder until I get velocities in line with this cartridge then quit. Hopefully photos to come later Happy day for me and an old rifle that needs to finally, after 60 years in the cabinet, go hunting.

MARK

PS I still need a 'good' .270 for uncle David so if anyone here has one for sale let me know....

Mark,

Man, that sounds like a jewel. Time for a stupid question - Outside of the obvious, how was the Belted version different from the non-Belted Newtons? (I've always been interested in the 35 and 40 Newton.)

Sounds like a wonderful old rifle. I look forward to seeing the pictures.

sent you a PM on a 270

Considering the time frame, I'd be willing to bet the Remington brass as cut down .300 H&H brass. As I recall, the .300 H&H was the only real commercial .300 aroud with the Weatherby being more of a semi-wildcat.
I have a box of new unprimed Remington 7x57 Mauser brass that is just marked R-P 7MM. I think the 7x57 was probably the only commercial 7MM around at that time as well.
Sounds to me like you got a really cool old rifle.
Paul B.

SM, thanks for the PM, found a rifle earlier and bought it. Trade complete

PJ, I would have to concur, excepting that the .308 Norma was a sort of factory round about this same time and the Speer box is marked '30 Belted Newton' I just found some markings on the ammo box and it seems old friend Judd Monger put 73 grs of mil surp 4831 powder in each case and lit it with a CCI magnum primer all behind a Speer 180gr Mag Tip bullet. Velocity is written down as 2900fps, but I am sure this is an estimate from the loading manuals of the time as pretty much no one had a chronograph at the time of the writing. I will Chrono these and see how close he came in his estimates. I might even use these 180gr mag tips on a whitetail deer hunt I have planned for this October. A 30 Belted with any kind of 180gr bullet is overkill for any deer but it ought to work great if I get onto a big buck.

PINTOGUY....

The 30 Newton was a proprietary case of unique dimensions and when the Western Cartridge company quit making the ammo and brass in about the 30's if I recall correctly brass supplies dried up and many Newton rifles were re-chambered for cartridges that ammo could be had for. The 30 belted Newton is simply one of MANY 'short' or 30/06 length 30 caliber magnum wildcats prevalent in the days before the .308 Norma Magnum became somewhat standard and before the 300 Winchester Magnum came along and made the other short belted 30's pretty much obsolete. Most look a lot like the 30/338 with only very minor, if any at all, differences. I still do not know if there is any difference between a 30 Belted Newton and a 30/338 aka 308 Norma. Probably not much and maybe none at all. I will report back what I find if anyone here is interested in such.

You are indeed a very lucky man. May you carry your Grand Father and his rifle in your woods for many years. Bear

Ackley says that the .30 Belted Newton and the .30-.338 are the same cartridge. I used to shoot a .30-.338 at 1,000 yards, and it would have been cooler to call it a Belted Newton!

I know Charles Newton's .30 Newton, but I don't know who originally came up with the .30 Belted Newton. In any case it is a way cool rifle and it will be fun to shoot and hunt.

jim

"Outside of the obvious, how was the Belted version different from the non-Belted Newtons? (I've always been interested in the 35 and 40 Newton.)"

According to my "Cartridges of the World" The .30 and .35 Newton used a beltless rimless care larger in diameter than the .30-06.

Base dia.-.523
Rim dia.-.525
Case Length-2.52

The belted type H & H cases are:
Base dia.-.513
Rim dia.-.530
Length of .308 Norma-2.56

It appears that the .30 Newton was a rimless case slightly larger in diameter than the base dia. of the H & H type cases, but smaller than the belt. They might have slightly more capacity than an identical length H & H case due to the .523 diameter for the Newton.

It appears to be a case along the same lines as the WSM and RUM before there was such a thing, although the Newton case is smaller in diameter.

According to COTW, a limited supply of cases was manufactured by Richard Speer right after WW 2.

Surprisingly, the .30 Belted Newton is not mentioned in my issue (3rd) of COTW. I have heard of the .30-.338 being referred to as the .30 Belted Newton, but I can't remember where. I can continue looking, if anyone is interested. I have a lot of books dating back to the 60s and earlier.

It would seem logical that the .30 Belted Newton might have been developed so that the original .30 Newton rifles could be rechambered, but with the rimless case being larger at the base, a H & H sized reamer would not clean up the chamber.

Due to the difference in size of the two cases, I don't know what the .30 Newton could be rechambered to.

The barrel could possibly be set back so that the chamber would clean up.

Or, and I guess this is feasable, the original rifles could have been rechambered and the owner lived with the swelled bases resulting from the Belted cases being used.

I am curious about this. I think I will keep looking.

Mark, sounds like you have a real treasure. Now for the admonishment- keep it!!! I look forward to seeing it. Once spring bear season is over I will come check it out. Brian.

Exactly. I'm reading P.O. Ackley's words about the .30 Belted Newton as I type. He says it's a 338 case necked down to .30 caliber, and came out shorty after the introduction of the 338.

Don

Well, it seems that the 30/338 dies I had bought for this rifle would have been sufficient, but when I found a set marked 30 Belted Newton I bought them to be sure and now I should have no problem getting the rifle fed and running pretty easily.

Rufous, as you are well aware I trade off rifles more often than you change your underwear.... but this is in my keep forever pile. A family hierloom that does not have much real cash value on the market. We will have to go and blast some stuff with it soon.

I am having the clutch re done right now on 'our' Rokon, time soon to go and play with it as well.

Mark;

Dude.....

PICS!

Might have to e-mail them to you to post. Would you mind? GOT to learn how to DO this.... ARRRGGGGHHHHH!

Send 'm to my gmail account.......

I have some work to do via that account later anyway; they should be up tonight.

so where are these pics that everyone is waiting for?

Ain't been received yet.

Trust me, I'm waitin' too.....

I will get 'em done here in a minute or three.... MARK

I have the regular, beltless 30 Newton. I use 75grs of H4350sc and a 180gr Rn bullet, with cci 250 primers. Gets 3200fps, per my Oheler Chronograph. A charge of 75grs of 4831 and the 180rn, and cci 250 gives 2929 fps. I can make cases by running a 7mmRM case into the Newton sizing die, which pushes the shoulder back a bit (the original newton shorter than the 338/7mmRM case). I just leave the belt on, as the case will expand as far back as it can, and stop. I have found brass for it here and there (Winchester), but it's too valuable as collector stuff, to load.

The 30 belted Newton, just another name for the 30/338, which is an excellent round in it's own right.

Pics sent to major good guy VA for posting at his leisure. I MUST learn to do this soon......

If I can post pics anybody can.

ghost,

I could certainly be mistaken on this, but I believe Jamison is now making brass for the 256 Newton, 30 Newton (un-belted), and 35 Newton (also un-belted). Not sure on the $$$ but may be worth looking into.

ETA - $88 for 100 pcs. That's not too shabby all things considered . . .

I don't know who hung the .30 Belted Newton name on the .30-.338 since the two do not overlap in time.

I have a .375 Ruger and a .300 RCM, and those two cartridges would appear to be very close to the original .30 Newton in head size. Have you looked at that brass for your rifle?

jim

Hunter Jim,

The 30 Belted Newton name came from, as I understand it, Wildcatters efforts to re-create or closely approximate the original 30 Newtons case capacity and performance in an regular '98 Mauser and 'o3 sized action and it was a semi-popular wildcat sometime before the .338 Win Mag was introduced and long before the 30/338 or even the identical as far as I can tell so far .308 Norma AKA 30/338 cartridges. So, as best as I can tell the name and cartridge 30 Belted Newton was 'hung' before anyone knew anything about the yet to be introduced 338 or its offspring. As I stated earlier in my original post there seem to have been quite a few 30/06 length 30 Caliber magnums running around before the 338 Win mag and its offspring. All of them very similar and differing only in minor amounts of body taper or shoulder and neck lengths. It seems as though the 30Belted Newton is one of the better ones. Especially if it turns out that .308 Norma ammo and 30/338 stuff will work in it as I expect.

GHOST,

I had the same idea as Hunter Jim, perhaps your cases can now be made from one of the RUM cases and not have all of that case expansion upon firing. If you can get some Jamison cases for $88.00 / hundred I would grab a couple hundred. The 30 Newton case would actually exceed the case capacity of my belted version by a bit and thus provide a bit more speed and the ability to function well with the new slower burning powders.

MARK

Mark,

IIRC, the Speer #4 "Wildcat" reloading manual had loads for the .30 Belted Newton. I can't seem to lay my hands on my copy at the moment. But When I do, I'd be happy to xerox the data and snail-mail it to you.

Congratulations on acquiring an interesting piece of firearms history.

Grasshopper

Thanks. Will look into it.

I think the RUM brass to large, but will check it, as I have some here. Thanks for the information, and lead on the Jamieson brass. Do you have a site for them?

Pics (finally...... sorry for the delay):













[img]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b165/VAnimrod/032.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b165/VAnimrod/033.jpg[/img]

I had a friend that hunted everything with the 256 Newton, I was so impressed with it that I had to have one but, I couldnt find one (20 yrs ago) so I got a .264 win mag and (seemed to be the closest to it in ballistics)...at least thats what I determined when I was a teenager.

Neat old rifle; one to be proud of owning and shooting.
Has the Kuharsky mounts on it too. I had those same mounts on a 7mm Ackley Magnum with a Balvar 8 scope in the late 1950's.

Thanks VA!

I love the old way rifles and this one will get hunted.

DMB, The mounts say Bausch and Lomb, did they buy a patent from Kuharsky? I will probably remove these and go with DD bases and Signature rings. Anyone need a set of these bases?

MARK

Mark;

Keep those bases, and get a period correct scope for it; run her as she is and as she was.

Leupold M8 (now that Weaver Scope Repair Service is no more), would be the go to for the right scope on that. I'm thinking something like an M8 6x36 or 7x42 would be perfect.

Mark,

I have a .30 belted Newton. Mine was barreled in 1946 by a gunsmith in Washington state. This rifle is built on a springfield action that has been converted to LH. bought it here on the campfire a few years ago from a gentleman that inherited and had no idea what it was. Fortunatley the barrel was packed with dried out grease of some sort (cosmoline?) and when cleaned was mirror bright with no rust or corrosion. This rifle was comnfigured to be a accrost the course prone rifle. Pretty heavy barrel as it weighs about 16lbs all up. It was tapped for a scope but the holes were pretty buggered up, so I had to put a little work in it. The trigger is a canjar. It shoots honest 1/2 inch groups with most any bullet below 200 grains. It is very short throated so it was set up for lighter bullets. I have several loads that I have gotten from old speer manuals and actually used. H4831 seems to be the powder of choice. PM me if your intrested in some loads. BTW it is not the same as the .308 Norma as it has a shorter neck. I bought .30:338 dies from redding. It will do about anything that a .30mag will do. Should be a lot of fun and a good hunting rifle.
Forgot to add I make my brass with one pass of 7mm rem mag. through the full length sizer.

LC

GREAT input LC! thanks! PM is on the way. Wow, someone else with a 30 Belted Newton. Who'da thunk it! Old original loads are loaded with Mil Surp 4831, so H 4831 was where I had planned to start.

VA I will need to find rings for these bases if I want to run it as is, will start to look.

MARK

Mark,

I have a very similar rifle, an FN Mauser, chambered in 300 H&H. The scope mounts are the old Kuharsky with a Bausch & Lomb Balvar 8A scope.

The outfit weighs almost ten pounds, and consequently is a dream to shoot and one of the most accurate rifles I own. If you can find rings and one of those scopes, you will be very pleased.

Ted

The action photos show what reminds me of an FN commercial action, which would fit the time period. What marks does the action show?

If you pull the bolt and look into the breech, is it a C-ring or an H-ring?

Enquiring minds and all that.

jim

thanks...jim

Mark, I loved the story, I came into my gradfathers Remington 721 in 270 after trying to get it for my entire adult life. My granfather was killed in a car accident in 1952. The rifle ended up with my dads youngest brother. After a divorce he (my uncle) gave it to his son and I kinda lost track of it as we all moved on in our lives. I always told my uncle that I would like to have it and offerd many times to buy it. I musta told him a thousand times thru the years. My Dad probally told him ten thousand. I saw my uncle at a family function bout 5 years ago and brought it up again. Next day my cousin calls me and said he got the word I was interested in it. He said he had never fired it since the day he got it mostly cause he was left handed!! I offered to buy him a new hunting rifle of his choice (Rem. Win. or such) to replace it and he said since he was left handed anyway it was a deal. That easy after all those years!! When my cousin showed up with the rifle he even had the original hand written bill of sale dated Nov. 1951 just a few months before my grandfather was killed. Needless to say I was thrilled to get it. I have hunted the rifle 2 times and each time harvested a 10 point whitetail!! Once in Texas and once on my own land in West Va. To say the rifle means alot to me is an understatement!! Hopefully it will never leave the family. Good hunting. Sam

Hunter Jim. It is a FN Commercial Mauser.
Date on receiver says 1951, which fits all of the other known details of the rifle quite well.

"Mark;

Keep those bases, and get a period correct scope for it; run her as she is and as she was.

Leupold M8 (now that Weaver Scope Repair Service is no more), would be the go to for the right scope on that. I'm thinking something like an M8 6x36 or 7x42 would be perfect."


_________________________
VA - I just cut a deal with a vintage rifle parts dealer here in town and brought home 1) another set of Kuharsky style Bausch and Lomb bases 2) two sets of 26mm rings for these bases 3) a Bausch and Lomb straight tube 4X post and crosshair reticle scope and 4) a Bausch and Lomb Balvar 2.5-8 external adjustment scope, apx 44mm objective lens, with tapered crosshair reticle. All for $150.00!!!!!! we are ready to go shooting!!!!! Wooo Hoo!!!! Anyone know where to get these scopes nitrogen filled etc. to make them a bit better of a hunting tool?

Having trouble getting the old mounts to work.... these things don't set up really easily.... I like how they secure a scope at 4 points though, and the set screw type adjustments look to be pretty danged solid and immoveable unless one WANTS to move them. This could really WORK

Mark, did you get the rings with the leaf spring or the plunger attachment?

Ted

Plunger attatchment. One of the rings sets ( the one that did not already have a scope in it) seems loose and wiggly. I will put it together with a scope as I suspect the scope provides downward tension on the whole project and eliminates the slop. Do you know if I am right on this?

Yep, those mounts are not the easiest to work with. It's kind of a crap shoot zeroing the scope. Once set, you are home free though.

I actually like how the scope is supported at 4 points and the adjustments are locked in place by set screws on the bases. Should be pretty danged solid. Will try again this AM to get the second set of mounts to work with the Balvar 2.5-8X scope.

Wow Mark. I am late to the party but VERY COOL.

BMT

You have it right!

Once you get the hang of the adjustments, you will find it pretty easy to use.

Ted

New problem.... when the ring mounts are set into thier respective mortises, the bottom of the rings are WAY below the crossbars that go across the bases. Cannot tighten the ring tops without bending the scope tube, a lot, or leaving the rings with a 1/8 inch GAP between the bottom of the scope and the bottom scope ring. Got any idea's? Same )plunger type base) setup with the straight tube 4X scope works fine....

Ted and all,

Took the rifle, rings, scopes etc. to the guy who sold me the scopes etc. and he got it all dialed in. Rock solid. NOW to go and SHOOT it

PS Thanks to all who commented and offered help and information. This old dog is gonna hunt!

Mark,

Have fun, and let us know how it shoots!!!!