Well, I have taken the 17 HMR Savage out of use and it will go with me to the trade in doctor. I have had it with lost animals (foxes & coons) and will be bringing home a Savage in the .204 caliber (using 40grn bullets) to keep my .222 Remy loaded with 50 grainers company.

Congrats on seeing the light...grin...

Next we will be seeing all the 22LR and 22 mag. guys trading in to get the centerfire performance their rimfires wouldn't give. Some light indeed.

Tonk, the 22 Mag with 40g Win HP has considerable more killing power over the 17 HMR...heavier bullet. I killed a lot of yotes in Az with the 22 mag with the 40g Win Hp, just remember your limited range and shot placement.

Of course, your CF are a serious upgrade.

good luck!

There is a particular punch that some 17 HMR connoisseurs drink that the 22RF/mag crowd does not. Side effects include shooting stuff they should never be shooting followed by touting its effectiveness.

The 22RF/mag crowd does not seem to suffer from similar side effects as they have a better grasp of cartridge limitations.

I don't know about that as far as the 22 mag goes. Both are pretty capable pip squeaks that are still pip squeaks.

Tonk: Hornet, man. Hornet.

My 17Mach2 takes care of the ground squirrels and crows for half the price of the 17HMR,and my 22 Hornet takes care of the larger animals out to 250 yards or so.

How long did it take you to figure this out? My friend hunts coyotes in comps in southern Oregon and was ready to throw his 17 in the garbage can after he lost the 3rd one. He's since went to the 22-250 and is now back to his favorite the 22 magnum . He also likes to save the hide to sell at the trappers fur auctions and found the 22-250 is a little harsh on the yotes, but puts them down without question.

Rocky Rab, I don't think so, I just never got hooked on the Hornet! Instead I got my hooks into a Triple Deuce (.222 Rem) and have always looked even higher up the ladder. We have them in the .204 Savage, .223 Savage & CZ, .22-50 Savage, .243 Winchester, 25-06 Winchester, Ruger & Browning Bar.

I brought it up stairs and dusted it off to use on the fox, coons and coyotes, while they order in my .204 caliber. It's good out to 250 yards and I am only shooting 75 yards for the most part. I will save that .22Mag for the tin cans and warm up sessions at the gun club prior to shooting my bigger calibers.

BSA......I knew I was in trouble after the first fox I knocked down (center chest shot) cut a trail to the woods after it was down for 3 minutes and then high tailed it in a flash. However, I believe in giving a 2nd chance to new calibers but this did not get any better. So for the .17-HMR "Color Me Gone"!!!

Yep, Hornet is the way to go.

If you are after prairie dogs, and you select your shots, the .17 HMR is a great cartridge. It's a decent rat gun, but marginal at 150-200 yds and not very powerful for bigger targets.

Yes, the .222 or .204 or .223 will do a better job on anything over 6 lbs. or out a long ways. That's why I carry TWO (or more) rifles when hunting PDs. A shot at 300 yards is quite a common thing, but the .17 HMR is not the rifle to use for that occasion. The 22-250 is overkill for these wee beasties at 125 yards.

Choose your armament wisely and kill cleanly.

Tonk: Are YOU able to place your 17 HMR projectiles with consistency in the "kill zone" of Fox and Raccoons?
I have killed 3 Coyotes with my 17 HMR to date and all were one shot kills.
I have also killed large Badgers, Raccoons, Rock Chucks, Fox, large Porcupines, feral cats, Skunks and hoardes of somewhat smaller Varmints with my 17 HMR's, and I very seldom have to shoot one of them twice!
Puzzling your experiences as compared to mine.
One poster apparently contends the 22 Magnum is more lethal than the 17 HMR because it shoots heavier bullets - that contention is also absolutely bass-ackwards from my extensive experience with both cartridges!
I have had MUCH better lethality with my 17 HMR's than any of the 22 "Magnums" I have used for the last several decades.
Listen carefully - SPEED kills!
Especially when said speed is in the form of a tiny, accurate, highly frangible and rapidly rotating 17 caliber V-Max bullet.
I say keep the 17 HMR and re-evaluate YOUR ability to place those tiny (but lethal!) projectiles into the kill zone of both Raccoon and Fox!
You may also need to have the patience and good decision making ability to "pass up" a less than GOOD shot opportunity when using the 17 HMR?
I can do it and so can you.
NOTHING you have posted causes me in any way shape or form to discount or doubt the 7+ years of EXTENSIVE in the field experiences I have had with my 17 HMR's.
My 22 Magnums sit a'home these days and I use my 17 HMR's with tact, care and confidence!
A bad shot with a "Magnum" will also result in a lost "fox & coon".
Its just that simple.
I highly recommend the 204 Ruger cartridge for all manner of Varmint Hunting but there are locations and situations where the rimfires are allowable and preferable!
In those cases I use the 17 HMR.
Best of luck in the future.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

+1 VG...of course if you hit a fox or coon in the guts with a .204, it'll prolly be a bang flop.

And here they come...

Always thought the .17 HMR was about perfect for sage rat shooting. Lots of fun and very effective on those tiny critters.

For bigger varmints & predators, I like the .204 or other, larger cartridges.

The 17 HMR was made for sage rats.

Any visitor to this forum knows that VG fairly worships the 17 HMR with the same intensity that he loathes Blue Dot - and that's saying something!

VG, you can have any and all the 17 HMRs you want with my blessing.

I Loooooooove my .17 HMR..but it very rarely shoots anything bigger than a gopher ( about twice the size of a sage rat..)

Have shot chucks and skunks with it, with mixed reviews and results....

So it is relegated to those "rimfire" days on the killing fields....

RockyRaaab: Don't just take my "worshipping the 17 HMR" as a one of a kind situation!
I hosted AT LEAST 25 (twenty five) Varmint Hunters from my home here in Varminting Central (Montana!) last year alone!
Virtually every one of those sophisticated, experienced and skookum (Indiam word meaning smart!) Hunters brought along at least one 17 HMR Rifle!
Not ONE of them brought along a 22 Magnum!
They have ALL been converted to 17 HMR "advocates"!
And virtually all of those Hunters I hosted are easily capable of owning/using any and all the guns their hearts desire!
Why this "preference" for the wonderful little 17 HMR YOU might ask - well it has to do with the better wind bucking ability of the 17 HMR over other rimfires - the flatter trajectory of the 17 HMR over other rimfires - the increased lethality of the 17 HMR over other rimfires and the increased accuracy of the 17 HMR over other rimfires.
SO, Rocky, when you have a rimfire that is flatter shooting, shoots straighter in the wind, is more lethal and is more accurate (easier to hit Varmints with!) than the other rimfires then YOU are simply showing your ass by denouncing in ANY way shape or form the 17 HMR!
Now, on to blue dot "squib loads" - well its simply this: anyone that endorses or uses "squib loads" in a centerfire is asking for detonation!
Destruction.
Injury.
Loss of fingers.
Loss of sight.
Period!
That is NOT a performance issue - that is stupidity on display!
I don't loathe blue dot loads I simply am smart enough to use powders that the MANUFACTURERS RECOMMEND in my handloads!
Long live the 17 HMR!
Long live blue dot (in the correct and safe applications that it is intended for!)!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Varmint Guy........To answer your question YES! Now to inform you of my shooting abilities, I shot 3rd highest in my Regiment while in the company of Uncle Same using the M-14.

Also shot at Camp Perry and did very well there too. I been taught the ropes of shooting long range and using mil-dot recticules as well as knowing how to dope the wind.

I have hit two Foxes in the chest at 50 yards with a .17-HMR only to have them get back up and trot off 3 minutes later. Same goes for the 3 coons I have hit broadside with the .17-HMR. One made it to the woods 75 yards away and the other two went under the barn 45 yards away.

Now just so you know, the .17-HMR is strictly a friggin RAT or P-DOG caliber, under 150 yards at best. It sure as hell is NO big game caliber for deer, mountain lion or anything larger than a Squirrel!!!

I have a battery of varmint rifles in .204, 222-Rem., .223, 22-250, .243 & 6mm, and a couple of nice 25-06's. However, for someone to state they shoot mountain lions with a .17-HMR or shoot mountain lions with a .223 caliber is simply ludicrous. To do so is of piss poor ethics in my eyes!!!

VG, my post was lighthearted, but since you seem to have taken umbrage, allow me to reply in kind.

Where in the living hell did you read me denouncing anything? Not one f-ing syllable, bub. All you did in your post was to prove beyond any doubt the two things I DID say: you worship the 17 HMR and you loathe Blue Dot.

Now go argue with that. But argue to yourself. I just put you on ignore.

I have both the 17HMR and 22 Magnum. And both in good quality rifles. This is my experience with the 17HMR.

I give the accuracy edge to the 17 HMR. I believe that to be attributable to a slightly better bullet. I think the bullets in the 17HMR simply fly better.

I think what happened with the 17 HMR is people expected it to be a better killer at longer ranges. I believe this is false. Or that has been my experience.

Not alot of coyote experience with the 17HMR, but a ton of ground hog, raccoon, skunks, and other same size critters, along with some foxes.

Both cartridges are good for hunting out to 100 or 125 yards max. IMO. Past that distance you are going to have crawl offs with both cartridges in the sized critters I described.

I see no real advantage in trajectory to 125 yards with a 17 HMR. Is it a little flatter shooting?? YES it is. But what is the real difference between the two in trajectory. An inch?? Maybe two?? No big deal too me.

Both are capable of 1" to 1-1/2" groups at 100 yards. So what is the big deal there. No critter at 100 yards will ever know the difference.

Personally I think the 22 magnum has a bit more ooooommmpppphhhh. But that is a personal thing. I believe the bullet is a little better designed for slightly more penetration and killing(but not much). And it is darn sure cheaper to shoot than a 17.

The trajectory is probably more important for some of you guys shooting prairie dogs. I can see that. It does not take much to kill a prairie dog. But a ground hog is a different critter. They are tough.

If I went on a volume prairie dog hunt I probably would reach for my 17 HMR first. But if other critters(bigger) were on the target list then the 22 magnum would get the nod.

The 17 HMR is not a CF round. Hunters need to quit treating it as such. If treated the same as a 22 magnum it wil do the job. But definitely not superior on larger critters. Just my opinion. Tom.

VG, you hype your experiences as being the only possible outcomes, while discounting other people's experiences, when they are in conflict with your own, and claim that any variance to your outcomes are due to the shooter's failure, not the failure of the cartridge or bullet. Unless you were actually there to observe those other outcomes, how do you know with such certainty that your opinions are the only correct opinions?

Standard disclaimer; "YMMV and since my experience is mine alone, your experience is likely to be different.".

Jeff

Tom you and I are on the same page! Yep, my .17-HMR is a 1/4 inch tack driver at 50 yards and shoots 3/4 inches at 100 yards, if the wind is NOT blowing.

The .22mag just hits em harder and penetrates deeper do to that 40 grain bullet. I have used the .22mag on with 32, 36 and 40 grain bullets on fox, coons FMJ, and oposums with excellent results out to 60 yards.

This BS CRAP about taking big game animals with either of the to mentioned calibers above is crazy at best. Also the taking of mountain lion by anyone with normal mental capacity leaves me wondering about their hunting ethics period. A .223 or .17-HMR is NOT NOR NEVER WAS MEANT TO BE A "Mountain Lion" killer or big game caliber FACT!!!. Now I will stick by my guns and statments on this post and subject matter, weather you be a Montana Cowboy or a New York Designer.

I was brought to respect all animals and especially those you hunt! I grew up reading the likes of Bill Jordan, Elmer Keith, Jack O'Conner, Milek, Capstick and several others, who always acknowledge the use of useing proper caliber and bullet.

Gotta Love the Extra Capital Letters!!
Tonk, I agree with your reading of the 17HMR. Those are tiny bullets and they have the BC of a rock. So...tiny targets at reasonable ranges.
The 22Mag carries more poop a little further out, but the HMR has the definite accuracy edge overall.
You should be all right with a 204, it definitely has the zap factor, but I'll say you're already set with the 222, which I gather you already have. Then, of course, there's the Hornet, or even a Fireball, which I much prefer to the Hornet.

Dave I have 3 of those model 12 SAVAGES in calibers .204, .223 fluted barrel and the other is just a heavy stainless barrel. I just got home with a new Winchester model 70 Coyote in 22-250, very nice cut out stock.

There are also 2 rifles, one a Ruger the other a Browning Bar in the caliber 25-06. Pluse those 2 model 70's, featherweight and sporter in .243 and it's kissing cousin a 6mm Rem. in 700 BDL. Now none of those listed above will ever go big game hunting, except the one 25-06 rifle and that sure as GRANT was a general, will not be used on any friggin mountain lion.

Buddy of mine got his kitty cat last winter (with dogs). He borrowed my evil landlord's 7-08, which I'd loaded for with a 100 grain HP, pretty mild load, actually.
Zap. Flop. Cat was dead before it hit the ground, and the bullet didn't exit. Perfect kill. Nice hide, too. We're all waiting for the mount to be finished.
The 243, the 7-08, and even the 22-250, are plenty peachy fine for kitty cats. Cats are actually kind of fragile. I'd bet if you asked, most others would agree that with a good shot and the right bullet, all will work fine.
I'd probably not use a 25-06 on a kitty cat. I've used mine on coyotes and deer, and while just about right on deer with 100 grainers, on coyotes no matter what an 06 is complete overkill, I really messed them up. I would not use it on a kitty kat.

I've been shooting the 17HMR since they 1st came out and after putting over 5K rounds down range, I have decided that I'll limit my use of the 17HMR to paper and small critters. Out to 100+/- yards I don't see any meaningful difference in performance between the 17HM2 and 17HMR on paper or small animals, like squirrels and cottontails. The 17HMR works fine on pdogs when the wind isn't blowing, but a calm day is the rare exception to the rule anywhere I shoot pdogs in CO, NE, SD, or WY. Because of the less expensive ammo, I shoot my 17HM2s a lot more often and a lot more volume then I do my 17HMRs. On a calm day, the Marlin, Ruger, and Savage rifles that I have in 17HM2 are all capable of producing sub-MOA groups and I find myself warming up on the range by shooting a box of 50 17HM2s before I shoot my centerfires.

I've been shooting the 22MRF for about 40 years and have killed animals as large as whitetail deer with it, something that would never consider doing with either the 17HM2 or the 17HMR and only with the 22LR under extreme circumstances. In a handgun, the 22MRF is quite useful and the CCI snakeshot loads are much more effective, in my experience, then the 22LR snakeshot loads. Another plus, at least for me, is that you can get acceptable practice accuracy shooting less expensive 22LRs in the 22MRF using the chamber adapters sold by MCA Sports.

www.mcace.com

Standard disclaimer; "YMMV and since my experience is mine alone, your experience is likely to be different.".

Jeff

For someone who CLAIMS for have fired a case of 17HMR ammo, your powers of observation sure as hell suck.

Since WHEN does the 80+ yard advantage in velocity/energy for the 17HMR over the 17MII suddenly disappear at 100Yards?

You can delude yourself all you want cornhusker, but the laws of ballistics work even for 17 rimfires. If you push an IDENTICAL bullet( a 17g amax) at least 500 FPS faster in the 17HMR , it WILL outperform a 17M11 at any range. Period.

Here is some of that "ineffective" 17HMR performance the 22 mag lovers like to harp on... Big western Kansas jack shot at 180 yards lazered with a 17g vmax load. The pic shows the exit wound.

What part of "Standard disclaimer; "YMMV and since my experience is mine alone, your experience is likely to be different."." don't you understand?

The fact that you claim outcomes that differ from my actual experiences is irrelevant to me, since I was there and you weren't.

Jeff

PS - I find the rude tone of your comments directed toward me to offensive, so why don't you go [bleep] yourself and put me on ignore?

I find the stupidity you post here labelled as "experience" pretty damn offensive as well.

Have a nice day ,hero.

Snarl snarl. Let's start talking 270 versus 3006, eh?
Forget the popcorn, guys, Tonk didn't like his results, and is going someplace else. Fine. That's why we have SO MANY FREAKING CALIBERS to PICK FROM. 20 Rem/Centurion Rimfire, anyone?

I truly believe that the .204, Triple Deuce or 22-250, will solve my problems but if it doesn't I can just grab something different out of the vault and step up a class in caliber. The .17-HMR is bad history and will never be repeated, unless I want to shoot mice out of the hay loft.

Sounds like blaming a screwdriver for not being a monkey wrench. I have both .204 and .17 HMR. Neither does the others' job very well and I wouldn't want to find myself without one of each.

Question: why are you not shooting those foxes and coons with the .222?? I think that as you approach the .222's performance, whatever factor lead you to use the HMR over it in the first place is going to come back into play for you.

If you really want to improve on the HMR without blowing whatever you're shooting into little pieces, messing up hides, etc, look at a .17 Rem Fireball and stuff it with 20 grain VMAXes. 'bout 20 grains of H335 makes 'em go fast and shoots accurately.

Tom

Never drank the 17 HMR cool-aid, but I do keep one in the collection just for plinking ground squirrels. It makes for an entertaining change of pace to watch them through the scope as they fall over like bad guys in a B western, as opposed to going the standard pink mist route.

TOM, that is an easy question to answer! Now I was told by several that this new .17-HMR was "Dynamite" on predators up to coyotes believe it or not. Well, I just had to see for myself and I did certainly do so in fact.

Now my Triple Deuce CZ rifle had no more Hornady 50grn V-Max moly ammo at the time I shot those foxes etc. So I grabbed the .17-HMR and stuck it out the bedroom window savvy! The results were piss poor to say the least. Hornady stop making the 50 grain V-MAX moly bullet. This particular .222 cal. rifle shoots well under .500-MOA on a 7/24 basis and has shot .265-MOA groups in the past.

I was NOT reloading for the .222 Rem. because it shot factory bullets in tiny groups at the range. Now I have gone to reloading and I do have a 40 grain load as well as a 55 grain load for the "Deuce". I hope that satisfies your curiosity! This in fact the rifle I will be using out the window in the near future for those predators that want to dine on my birds.

I do not think that was the intended quarry for the 17 HMR, We use it out here for prairie dogs and small varmints with great success. Some have actually shot hogs with it in TEXAS, though I have no idea why!!! I would never try that!
Right tool for the right job I guess.
Hey how about a rem 221 fireball?

Tonk -

I haven't shot anything bigger than big hares with the HMR. It was pretty clearly running out of steam. I hit one, sitting broadside, behind the shoulder .. first shot it's shadow changed shapes as if there were fingers hanging from the back side but it never moved so I cycled the bolt and whacked it again in the same spot. About 2 cups worth of guts fell out on the ground. It ran off without them, then fell over about 40 yards away and kicked a few times. Not pretty.

I watched a friend shoot a down-but-not-done coyote in the head 3 times with the HMR before it finally gave up and quit. Not pretty.

Both with the 17 grain loads. For anything bigger than medium rodents I'm switching to the 20 grain TNT loads.

When it comes to things bigger than ground squirrels, I really think the .22 mag has a step up on the .17 HMR. The HMR shoots small things farther better, the .22 mag does bigger things closer better. No arguing with bigger diameter and heavier bullets so long as they are "fast enough", whatever that happens to be.

I haven't done a lot with the .222, but I've spent quite a bit of time with the .221 and .223 in rifles. Sounds like you have a nice rig there.

I dunno, I'd be tempted to keep the HMR and use it for what it's meant for, don't listen to people trying to tell you to use it for something you've got misgivings about (in other words, trust yourself!), and use the .222 for the bigger varmints.

Whatever y' go with, though, best of luck!

Tom

TOM, I agree 100% with your assessment of what the 17-HMR was intended for as far as varmints go sir! I have shot several rabbits with the little caliber later after the fox and coon incidents but those where hit in the head and they dropped quickly 30 yards away, kicked once or twice and gave up the ghost.

Now if some Cowboy wants to go around shooting mountan lion in the head with a .17-HMR, I'll just figure that person not to have much gray matter between their ears. I do remember an ole boy in Wyoming who was guided by Boykin Outfitters once and he choose to lay down his rifle and pull that snub nose .38-spl out and shot a treed lion.

Well, he now knows and wishes he had never thought of such a stunt! That shot hit the lion but not before that lion jumped down out of the tree, landed on top of him, peeling back his scalp and tearing off his ear in the process. The white snow turned a crimson red in a big hurry.

Mr. Boykin had to take the guy back over to Laramie, Wyoming (some 60 miles away) to get that ear sewed back on his head. The dogs in the mean time took out after the big male cat (weighed 172 pounds) his son went after the dogs but not before that cat sliced open his #1 hound, which later died. There was a big write up in the newspaper about this happening, just in case some might think other wise.

Ya, know Tonk, you paint with a pretty damn broad brush in your condemnation of the 17HMR. It's pretty funny schit to read.

You DO realize there are other loads for the 17HMR than just 17g Vamx bullets?

Are you going to tell me a 17g FMJ or 20g XTP is going to bounce of a MT lion's (or deer or Hog's) skull?

If you are making that claim, you don't have much grey matter between YOUR ears.

I have had a hell of a time warming up to the 17 HMR...

however, that FMJ round is a whole other ball game with that round..

I wouldn't want to have to stare down a mountain line with a 17 HMR.. but if I did, I would want that FMJ bullet in there..

when I first moved to Oregon, I had to stare down a mountain lion on a road, and it was above me getting ready to pounce..it was snowing like hell at the time...

all I had with was a 22 Win Mag with a 40 grain FMJ in it..
but I aimed that rifle right at its eyeball... and then started walking right toward it..

if it had even budged an inch toward me I would have pulled the trigger..

walking toward it, it snarled and turned away and took off..

I never showed the animal any fear whatsoever...and moving toward it might or might not have intimidated it..

so I showed it no fear... however when I got home, I did immediately change my underwear...for some dry ones

I have a 17 HMR and while I do not coyote hunt with it, I feel if the situation was right I would shoot one. That being said I too have noticed a huge difference with the 17 grain Vmax and the 20 grain hollow point in terms of lethality or penetration.

I bought a 17 that resembles one of my hunting rifles so I could practice shooting in my yard without lobing lead all over the neighborhood. I had a 175 yard range set up and was able to shoot out to that range with 1 inch high at 100 without leaving a 6 inch gong at 175. It made for good trigger time.

One thing I noticed was the wind does not effect the bullet as much as others say. I have shot in 40 mph cross winds and found less than an inch bullet drift at 100. I even have a paper target pic to confirm my observation. Another thing is that 17 grain Vmax really whacks small critters with a large splash wound and an audible "whump" too. The hollow point just runs thru without the graphic hole. It also makes a pretty decent tiny little dent in a soft steel gong at close range.

I like the gun/cartridge as it provides excellent accuracy, no recoil for trainng new shooters and great for out to maybe 125yards on a prairie dog field to get the close ones. Is it a fox gun, maybe? Coyote gun, Only if perfect conditions and that is what I had? I do think the bullet is the key to lethality with this cartridge though.

I started shooting prairie dogs in 1949 with a 22 LR RF rifle, later also used a 22 WMR rifle. When the 17 HMR and 17 M2 first came out I got them and now the 22 RF rifles stay at home. Every rifle round has its limits so I also use the 17 Fireball for shots past 150 yards along with some other varmint rounds. I can hit prairie dogs at longer ranges but I like clean kills when my shooting is a bit off. I dont take any rimfire rifle out to hunt anything bigger than a jack rabbit. I dont like to be under gunned . There are a number of center fire rounds like the 204 Ruger, 17 Rem, 22-250, and 220 Swift to use on the larger varmints and preditors.

Bracer.......EXACTLY!!! Most of us who hunt big game animals were taught by our "peer's" to USE ENOUGH GUN and proper type bullet. Now I have shot P-Dogs and Ground Hogs with a .300 Win mag and 165 grain bullet in past years but having to much gun on varmints is NO SIN!!! On the other hand, hunting dangerous game with a .17-HMR or .223 certainly would be in the eyes of any ordained hunting Bishop.LOL

Now if the SCI considers using a .17-HMR or the .223 caliber proper for killing Mountain Lion or any other Lion I will still stick to my guns and use what I know to be larger in caliber and a hell of a lot more bullet weight, like 180 grains or in my case, a 265 grain bullet out the end of my Marlin .444.........Amen!

After almost a week you answered your own question, use a 17HMR for prairie dogs and not for "foxs & coons".
Use what you were taught and choose an appropriate cartridge "USE ENOUGH GUN" but dont blame the 17HMR for an application failure it works great for what it was designed to do. pick almost any centerfire and it will be better for YOUR application

Boatanchor just so you know those foxes were half grown and the 2 of those coon were not giants either, one was about 25 to 28 pounds though. YES, I made up my mind and will never again believe what someone in a gunstore rants about his new majic rifle caliber or wond. It's back to whom I brought to the dance in other words, the .222 Remmy, .243 and my 1/4 bore O6!!!

Not enough cartridge? Goodness, it's a .17 rimfire, not a .222! The only "all around cartridge" I accept as such is the .458 Win, with it I can take anything that walks. Otherwise I try to match the cartridge to the purpose. Including the excellant but tiny .17 HMR. ??

Boomtube you just ain't got enought gun!!!

Yer gonna have to get yourself one of those .475 mags or a .505 Gibbs I suspect to take care of all critters in the backyard.