I look forward to this event. I think it can be extremely productive.
We would like to do something for those of you who are participating in this Leupold Live Event.
All orders we receive for Leupold Optics, Wednesday July 10th through Thursday at noon, July 11th, we will include a Camera Land gift card of $20.00 per $100.00 spent (so if you spend $800.00 you'll get a $160.00 Gift Card) good towards a future purchase. This is an extra bonus from Leupold and Camera Land to thank you for your input during this exclusive event..
I look forward to it. Thanks to Leupold for wading into the fray, and to Doug for making it happen. Kudos all around.
I am going to make this a Global Announcement. That will disable this thread in terms of further discussion, so we should continue that on the other thread, linked here:
Anyone that expected they were going to admit there are problems with their products is delusional. That's simply not how one survives in the corporate world.
Way back when in the days of Quality programs, the mantra was, "Quality means meeting customer expectations, not goodness". IOW, as long as the customer thinks he's getting his money's worth, it's a quality product. As long as enough people keep buying Leupold stuff based on reputation and tradition, there's no incentive for them to make any changes. As has been said repeatedly here, they know all about the stuff they sell, and are sticking to the program. Maybe there's a bunch of secret scurrying around in their engineering department working on the problems with their stuff, but I kinda doubt it, and ain't taking any expensive chances when there's plenty of other good products to choose from.
Thanks to Doug and all those who endured the presentation and produced the Cliff Notes version for the rest of us.
I believe Vortex has the largest market share now.
You underestimate the influence and reach that members of the 24HCF have. Not only are the comments forever online and available for numerous less-informed "lurkers" to peruse and digest, but members here tend to be considered a "resident guru" among their local social groups. Word of mouth travels fast when it's coming from someone who people view as credible...
The last few years I have seen a lot of local hunters in my neck of the woods showing up with Vortex products when they want to spend some money on something more "advanced" than normal. It's typically Nikon if they are operating on more of a budget. Most of the Leupold buyers I know have quite a bit of gray hair now and buy them because they've always bought them, but they are only shooting maybe a box of shells a year through those rifles.
The fact that Vortex has taken the market share in just a few short years should be a serious wake-up call.......
Why? They have covered most of the sports optics spectrum, built a plant to make a 100% "made in USA" line, and reward salespeople for pushing their line. Seems like savy marketing to me.
While I did not hear much in-depth technical info, I did pick up a few tidbits. (nothing startling) I thought their marketing guy was just that (I did not hear a lot of in-depth product knowledge from him, though I think he has the background to have that knowledge) and their technical supervisor gave the impression of being not too happy about being there. Probably a one on one with him would open up a wealth of info and I believe he wants to help customers. (but not spend much time listening to a b!tch session) The opening spiel could have been viewed as perhaps condescending, though I doubt they intended it that way. I will continue to buy/use their scopes, probably due to being a set and forget kind of shooter/hunter.
Arguments to authority (theirs) do not cut it. Dismissing problems by suggesting they are simply not there is not a valid argument, either...
Suggesting an erector problem cannot exist and then saying it could happen if the focus is off is another dismissive stance for a problem they deny, then explain.
Maybe one day someone besides Leupold will take one apart and see what’s what.....
I’d take apart a 200$ model as they are all the same.
That video chat was one of the most insulting displays of arrogance I’ve seen in a while.
“ We just bought millions of dollars worth of new equipment, because our old stuff was turning junk. Its simply you guys are not focusing properly, and we don’t care about 100yards it’s the long stuff we specialize in”. 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Jesus anymore bullshït they could be the house speaker.
Suggesting an erector problem cannot exist and then saying it could happen if the focus is off is another dismissive stance for a problem they deny, then explain.
Suggesting an erector problem cannot exist and then saying it could happen if the focus is off is another dismissive stance for a problem they deny, then explain.
Was E one of the representatives?
Maybe we're being too hard on Leupold? I think you should buy one.
I have a dozen Leupolds in my current inventory and have used their scopes for years for hunting and competition. I have had the occassional issues with them not tracking but for my hunting scopes I am a "set and forget" hunter. I shot Highpower and Smallbore Metallic Silhouette for many years and used 6.5-20 VX-3s mostly, as do most competitors in that discipline because they offer a good balance of weight, clarity and fairly reliable tracking, but after agonizing through the video I am less of a fan now than I was - they basically deny that they have any issues with their scopes and that we are all mistaken. While the great majority of hunters do not shoot enough or do not have equiptment precise enough to know when their scopes have issues there are a great many of us who do. When Chub Eastman was repping for them they knew they had tracking problems then - and that was back in the early 80's.
I was extremely put off by their statements concerning the "mushy" feel of the clicks when adjusting - WTF? Tasco sells $29.95 scopes that give better tactile feedback than the newer Leupolds. How can it be that the "clicks" are so mushy that you cannot even tell if you have moved 1,2, or 4 and that is supposed to be OK? I think not.
The Leupold response was predicted by many here. They all deserved the benefit of a doubt..... Leupold blew it... surprise. Thanks Doug & Rick..... can't help those who wont help themselves.
Oh and I thought the fire was on it's best behavior and that's sumthin.....
I also like the we don’t out source parts “ except glass” ( which is fine with me) “ we make ever aluminum part in this scope in house ” not it just the tube 🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥 So who makes the [bleep] that matters is my question? Like the Gilded brass erectors. Leupold is fûcked. Dane making eye roles and smart ass faces is as funny as his lie about 1 week turn over on repairs. I called today and was told 4 weeks. I told the tech to let his lying boss it’s “one week”. As He told me last night on the web cast.
🥴 two in a 1000 scopes come back for repair and I seem to get those two every time. I had 2 MK4 in one order broken in the wrapper. They can look it up as I have the # for them. I’ll never buy a Leupold product again.
PS in five weeks I will be selling a VX6 3-18x50 with tmoa if someone wants a deal. 😉
The flat brimmed dude kept looking at his laptop and saying “Well it looks like we don’t have any more questions coming in”.
I was posting a question and could see a lot of members questions waiting in their queue to be answered... They never were.
Leupold chose to ignore questions and went with a pre-planed Botox treatment for looking good only to themselves.
Dane, the guy wearing a properly formed hat was pissed from the beginning. Obviously, he took offense to our forum call outs leading up to this.
Now that it’s over. Do we really need to give 2 schits one way or the other? If a guy likes his Leupold scopes that’s cool....If a guy wants to spend $250-$2k for a new one - that’s cool too.
If a guy decides he’s done buying Leupold or hasn’t bought one in years I’m good with it.
I also like the we don’t out source parts “ except glass” ( which is fine with me) “ we make ever aluminum part in this scope in house ” not it just the tube 🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥 So who makes the [bleep] that matters is my question? Like the Gilded brass erectors. Leupold is fûcked. Dane making eye roles and smart ass faces is as funny as his lie about 1 week turn over on repairs. I called today and was told 4 weeks. I told the tech to let his lying boss it’s “one week”. As He told me last night on the web cast.
🥴 two in a 1000 scopes come back for repair and I seem to get those two every time. I had 2 MK4 in one order broken in the wrapper. They can look it up as I have the # for them. I’ll never buy a Leupold product again.
PS in five weeks I will be selling a VX6 3-18x50 with tmoa if someone wants a deal. 😉
If you get a new in box VX6 3-18x50 I’ll give you $400 for it.....Girls gotta make a buck somehow 😂😎
I also like the we don’t out source parts “ except glass” ( which is fine with me) “ we make ever aluminum part in this scope in house ” not it just the tube 🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥 So who makes the [bleep] that matters is my question? Like the Gilded brass erectors. Leupold is fûcked. Dane making eye roles and smart ass faces is as funny as his lie about 1 week turn over on repairs. I called today and was told 4 weeks. I told the tech to let his lying boss it’s “one week”. As He told me last night on the web cast.
🥴 two in a 1000 scopes come back for repair and I seem to get those two every time. I had 2 MK4 in one order broken in the wrapper. They can look it up as I have the # for them. I’ll never buy a Leupold product again.
PS in five weeks I will be selling a VX6 3-18x50 with tmoa if someone wants a deal. 😉
If you get a new in box VX6 3-18x50 I’ll give you $400 for it.....Girls gotta make a buck somehow 😂😎
Only change was scopes. The Leupold right the NXS left.
Both shot at 100 guess I can focus a Nightforce! Left was five shots right was 6 as I was going nuts over the way the rifle was shooting ie another busted Leupold
I have not had the problem with Leopold that others have but I sight it in and then shoot at that setting. After seeing their attitude it soured me on Leopold. They can spin it anyway they want, but I decide where I spend my money.
Only change was scopes. The Leupold right the NXS left.
Both shot at 100 guess I can focus a Nightforce! Left was five shots right was 6 as I was going nuts over the way the rifle was shooting ie another busted Leupold
According to the EXCLUSIVE video ,Call Leupold tech dept. and they will troubleshoot for you to get to the bottom of it. He said they would look at everything with you including ammo,bases, rings,etc...
FredIII - I had a similar but not as extreme issue with a bad Swarovski Z5 3.5-18 compared to a good Leupold. I’ve had a few Leupy’s go bonkers but will say after a trip thru repairs they stayed fixed... BTW - Swarovski said there was nothing wrong....
Only change was scopes. The Leupold right the NXS left.
Both shot at 100 guess I can focus a Nightforce! Left was five shots right was 6 as I was going nuts over the way the rifle was shooting ie another busted Leupold
According to the EXCLUSIVE video ,Call Leupold tech dept. and they will troubleshoot for you to get to the bottom of it. He said they would look at everything with you including ammo,bases, rings,etc...
I didn’t have a 100yard steel tape measure until I tried the NF. 😉🤭😂😂😂
Jordan! I was laughing and calling bullshit at the same time.
Is there such thing as a “scope smith”?? A guy that knew the guts and how to make them work would stay pretty busy. There’s gotta be some disgruntled Leupold worker that cusses a blue steak and swears he can do it better than his boss.
FredIII - I had a similar but not as extreme issue with a bad Swarovski Z5 3.5-18 compared to a good Leupold. I’ve had a few Leupy’s go bonkers but will say after a trip thru repairs they stayed fixed... BTW - Swarovski said there was nothing wrong....
Nothing is free of problems but to do a QA and lie to our faces is bull crap. I have six NF’s and all are focusing well🤪. At one point I had about 15 MK4’s I now have 1 left.
Just off the phone repair turn around is 4 weeks. 🤥
Originally Posted by fredIII
Dane making eye roles and smart ass faces is as funny as his lie about 1 week turn over on repairs. I called today and was told 4 weeks. I told the tech to let his lying boss it’s “one week”. As He told me last night on the web cast.
Fred, I’m thinking the representative factored in the three trips it’ll take to get it fixed.
Just off the phone repair turn around is 4 weeks. 🤥
Originally Posted by fredIII
Dane making eye roles and smart ass faces is as funny as his lie about 1 week turn over on repairs. I called today and was told 4 weeks. I told the tech to let his lying boss it’s “one week”. As He told me last night on the web cast.
Fred, I’m thinking the representative factored in the three trips it’ll take to get it fixed.
🧐 y yes I believe that must’ve been what happened.
Only change was scopes. The Leupold right the NXS left.
Both shot at 100 guess I can focus a Nightforce! Left was five shots right was 6 as I was going nuts over the way the rifle was shooting ie another busted Leupold
Only change was scopes. The Leupold right the NXS left.
Both shot at 100 guess I can focus a Nightforce! Left was five shots right was 6 as I was going nuts over the way the rifle was shooting ie another busted Leupold
Obviously user error.
Donate that leupold to Good Will. Some welfare baby momma in da hood has a rug rat that needs a cheap new rattle that works. And the gold ring will fascinate it for hours...
I was not able to participate in the webinar, but from what I have read here do not like the answers. I have not had any issues with focusing. Tracking and holding zero have been the issues. I just bought a new scope, a Meopta. Will see how it works out. Just sent a newer Burris Veracity in for tracking issues. Will see what happens. I am not a clicker, but do expect a scope can do a reasonable box or ladder test. Seems that is getting harder to find.
I've had four Leupold scopes go south on me. I still have two of them needing fixed. I was thinking about buying a VX-6. But, after that "dog and pony" show. I'll pick up another NXS Going with a compact. This scope has my full attention.
I also think, we're making our point. If not, not sure we'd seen that D&P show.
Only change was scopes. The Leupold right the NXS left.
Both shot at 100 guess I can focus a Nightforce! Left was five shots right was 6 as I was going nuts over the way the rifle was shooting ie another busted Leupold
According to the EXCLUSIVE video ,Call Leupold tech dept. and they will troubleshoot for you to get to the bottom of it. He said they would look at everything with you including ammo,bases, rings,etc...
So 2% of Leupolds are returned for repair and 2% are actually found to have problems. Now that is QC, do they think people are that gullible? Whatever happened to companies with integrity? I bought my last Leupold in 2012 a VXR 3-9x40 .
It is easy for them to say that the scopes "do not have a problem" if their chosen specifications are broad enough. So, plausible denial. They simply do not want to make a truly precision product line. Guns and shooters are enough better now than they were before to show the lack of imprecision.
Okay, I seriously doubt my question will be properly answered. I am not looking for a bunch of venom spit at Leupold. Call it a poll.
Given the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Leupold's live streaming event, what will you buy now?
This question is aimed at people who may wish to buy a specialty scope, or the ones who are fed up with Leupold. Whether it's tomorrow or next year, which manufacturer do you think will get your business?
Okay, I seriously doubt my question will be properly answered. I am not looking for a bunch of venom spit at Leupold. Call it a poll.
Given the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Leupold's live streaming event, what will you buy now?
This question is aimed at people who may wish to buy a specialty scope, or the ones who are fed up with Leupold. Whether it's tomorrow or next year, which manufacturer do you think will get your business?
You asked this question about two weeks ago didn't you?
Is there such thing as a “scope smith”?? A guy that knew the guts and how to make them work would stay pretty busy. There’s gotta be some disgruntled Leupold worker that cusses a blue steak and swears he can do it better than his boss.
It just can’t be that friggin complicated.
Originally Posted by 16bore
But damn man....I still love M8 6x42 M1’s.
Is there such thing as a “scope smith”?? A guy that knew the guts and how to make them work would stay pretty busy. There’s gotta be some disgruntled Leupold worker that cusses a blue steak and swears he can do it better than his boss.
It just can’t be that friggin complicated.
I’ve thought that too, it would be great if there was someplace you could get vintage Leupold’s retrofitted with reliable internals.
I didnt make the Leupold event simply because I've moved on - to NightForce. I wont say I'll never buy another Leupold but it will only be after they make changes AND the product has been in the market long enough to demonstrate accuracy, consistency, and longevity. Until then, NF SHV for me. I've been using g them for 3 years now and have zero issues with holding zero, tracking, and ends of daylight visibility. I really like them. Being I have one on every rifle except 1, it would take a major change by Leupold for me to switch back.......
I think many people will do what you have already done. No need to switch until something goes wrong, but it will take some time and improvements for Leupold to regain its reputation.
Even after the live feed I am still gonna buy Leopold. I have used Nightforce for years too. It’s nice having them in my back yard - but their stuff is too heavy for packing around. I cant speak for everyone and I am not sure what everyone’s application is but I can tell you I pack my rifle more than the average bear and Leopold has the market cornered for lightweight optics. I always get a belly chuckle when I see “hunters” buying these lightweight rifles and then throwing a 2 lb scope on there.
Yes, and you are one of the semi-literates I expected would answer. Shush. Go gum your toast.
For the rest,
Given the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Leupold's live streaming event, what will you buy now?
Most leaned toward NF. Any changes?
Steve, I have been a pretty big leupold fan, more half my scopes are Leupolds and I have something like 16 ( if I didn't miss one or two as I added them up) fixed 4 or 6s. While I dabble in other things mostly I am mostly a set and forget guy who hunts deer, bear moose and the occasional elk.
I have had variable leupold scopes fail, but not a fixed rifle scope. I can deal with the "leupold dance" during sight in as long as the scope hold zero afterwards. I appreciate the small form factor, light weight, eye relief and reasonable cost of the leupold fixed scopes.
However all the talk about failing scopes has me a little concerned, so the last scope I bought ( this spring) was a meopta 6x42 and I am trying to give it a good work out on a 338. In past years I would buy 3-5 scopes a year but I have really tried to shoot and hunt more and stop putting together rifles, so I think my big scope buying days are over.
however If night force would do a 6x36 or 6x40 with a simple hold over reticle ( like burris BP) that weighed less than 15oz I would buy a cuple for my most heavily used rifles. if they could do the same for a 4x32 a clean scope that was less than 12oz I could go for a couple of those as well. Big turrets, even capped ones and complex reticles and 20oz scopes are deal killers for me.
A similar one, yes. You are one of the semi-literates I expected would answer. Shush. Go gum your toast.
For the rest,
Given the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Leupold's live streaming event, what will you buy now?
Most leaned toward NF. Any changes?
And you must perpetually have your head buried deep in your ass to not know the answer to this redundant question that has bee beaten to death by you and many others over the years. Not at all surprised YOU are the one who repeatedly doesn't get it.
Okay, I seriously doubt my question will be properly answered. I am not looking for a bunch of venom spit at Leupold. Call it a poll.
Given the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Leupold's live streaming event, what will you buy now?
This question is aimed at people who may wish to buy a specialty scope, or the ones who are fed up with Leupold. Whether it's tomorrow or next year, which manufacturer do you think will get your business?
So 2% of Leupolds are returned for repair and 2% are actually found to have problems. Now that is QC, do they think people are that gullible? Whatever happened to companies with integrity? I bought my last Leupold in 2012 a VXR 3-9x40 .
Im pretty sure they said 2 OUT OF 1,000 (0.2%)come back for repair, then ONLY 2 OUT OF 100(2%) of those actually are defective. So that is saying that 98% of people sending their Leupold back really are ‘OK’.
This is ridiculously low and IF CORRECT, no wonder they stood there on video laughing at times, etc...
So 2% of Leupolds are returned for repair and 2% are actually found to have problems. Now that is QC, do they think people are that gullible? Whatever happened to companies with integrity? I bought my last Leupold in 2012 a VXR 3-9x40 .
Im pretty sure they said 2 OUT OF 1,000 (0.2%)come back for repair, then ONLY 2 OUT OF 100(2%) of those actually are defective. So that is saying that 98% of people sending their Leupold back really are ‘OK’.
This is ridiculously low and IF CORRECT, no wonder they stood there on video laughing at times, etc...
All that says is that the scopes are not tested for retaining zero...
Everything I own used to wear Leupold, right now I have sold all of them and replaced them with Zeiss, SWFA , Nikon and Burris. I’m done with Leupold, I have zero confidence in them and I don’t have the patience to [bleep] with the whole multiple shots to shoot in adjustments and all the time wasted BS I have had to deal with using them. I laugh when I see them on the shelves with their newest greatest features and these high prices knowing good and well it’s an overpriced hunk of [bleep] that won’t cut it at even the most basic task a scope is designed to perform. A lot,of guys I know that aren’t very experienced shooters but want to get in the game ask me for advice because they know I shoot a lot. When they ask me for scope advice and even mention Leupold I slap em in the face. I have steered quite a few guys towards SWFA and even the Nikon tacticals and have heard no complaints.
Steve, I have been a pretty big leupold fan, more half my scopes are Leupolds and I have something like 16 ( if I didn't miss one or two as I added them up) fixed 4 or 6s. While I dabble in other things mostly I am mostly a set and forget guy who hunts deer, bear moose and the occasional elk.
I have had variable leupold scopes fail, but not a fixed rifle scope. I can deal with the "leupold dance" during sight in as long as the scope hold zero afterwards. I appreciate the small form factor, light weight, eye relief and reasonable cost of the leupold fixed scopes.
However all the talk about failing scopes has me a little concerned, so the last scope I bought ( this spring) was a meopta 6x42 and I am trying to give it a good work out on a 338. In past years I would buy 3-5 scopes a year but I have really tried to shoot and hunt more and stop putting together rifles, so I think my big scope buying days are over.
however If night force would do a 6x36 or 6x40 with a simple hold over reticle ( like burris BP) that weighed less than 15oz I would buy a cuple for my most heavily used rifles. if they could do the same for a 4x32 a clean scope that was less than 12oz I could go for a couple of those as well. Big turrets, even capped ones and complex reticles and 20oz scopes are deal killers for me.
I appreciate this. I have never been a Leupold guy, so I was wondering, if the brand quality has gotten worse, how present and potential users felt. My only exposure to Leupold is with their 4 power hunting scopes. I have owned three. The last one had to go back for repairs. It was the old friction adjusting type that failed to adjust. After the live streaming, it seemed that the majority of people weren't happy with Leupold's answers. The responses have been overwhelmingly negative. Does that mean even more people are rethinking a Leupold purchase?
I guess the problem seems to be that there aren't too many alternatives to Leupold, if weight is a concern. NF scopes are heavier. You are probably in the same boat as others, wondering if there is anything out there. You might have to look at Europe for a scope.
I always get a belly chuckle when I see “hunters” buying these lightweight rifles and then throwing a 2 lb scope on there.
Or guys that claim to be in-shape 'hunters', whine about 8 extra ounces. I'm old and outta shape, but having a scope that is a tad weighty-er (but works) has NEVER held me back.
Okay, I seriously doubt my question will be properly answered. I am not looking for a bunch of venom spit at Leupold. Call it a poll.
Given the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Leupold's live streaming event, what will you buy now?
This question is aimed at people who may wish to buy a specialty scope, or the ones who are fed up with Leupold. Whether it's tomorrow or next year, which manufacturer do you think will get your business?
Have you been screened for dementia?
Hears his voice in his head and likes it, a lot....Echo chamber for one. 😎
The most interesting thing is seeing the folks that unapologetically are still defending Leupold after that joke of a presentation. Their attitude and condescending tone was embarrassing. Anyone associated with that presentation should be embarrassed.
Brand loyalty makes lots of folks blind to reality. Elmer Fudds like Redgewell are exactly who they are marketing too...
I always get a belly chuckle when I see “hunters” buying these lightweight rifles and then throwing a 2 lb scope on there.
Or guys that claim to be in-shape 'hunters', whine about 8 extra ounces. I'm old and outta shape, but having a scope that is a tad weighty-er (but works) has NEVER held me back.
Never heard anyone coming back from an actual long distance hiking hunt saying they wanted a heavier rifle/scope. There is a huge difference in 8 ounces of live weight bouncing in your hands rather than attached to your body.
I always get a belly chuckle when I see “hunters” buying these lightweight rifles and then throwing a 2 lb scope on there.
Or guys that claim to be in-shape 'hunters', whine about 8 extra ounces. I'm old and outta shape, but having a scope that is a tad weighty-er (but works) has NEVER held me back.
Never heard anyone coming back from an actual long distance hiking hunt saying they wanted a heavier rifle/scope. There is a huge difference in 8 ounces of live weight bouncing in your hands rather than attached to your body.
And a big wish it was there where your Leupold fails 15 miles in..
The most interesting thing is seeing the folks that unapologetically are still defending Leupold after that joke of a presentation. Their attitude and condescending tone was embarrassing. Anyone associated with that presentation should be embarrassed.
Brand loyalty makes lots of folks blind to reality. Elmer Fudds like Redgewell are exactly who their clientele is and won't be around forever.
I have nothing to do with this thread.
You are a classic troll. Try to stay focused on the discussion. Please feel free to contribute something positive rather than trying, and failing, to rabble rouse.
I have steered quite a few guys towards SWFA and even the Nikon tacticals and have heard no complaints.
I bought an older used Nikon 2.5-10 tactical a few years back with the 30mm tube and etched reticle. It's worked well so far, and seems solid enough. Tracks fine for me and the glass looks really good.
The most interesting thing is seeing the folks that unapologetically are still defending Leupold after that joke of a presentation. Their attitude and condescending tone was embarrassing. Anyone associated with that presentation should be embarrassed.
Brand loyalty makes lots of folks blind to reality. Elmer Fudds like Redgewell are exactly who their clientele is and won't be around forever.
I have nothing to do with this thread.
You are a classic troll. Try to stay focused on the discussion. Please feel free to contribute something positive rather than trying, and failing, to rabble rouse.
Hardly pard...
You're the one bringing stupid crap up that's been discussed thousands of times...
I always get a belly chuckle when I see “hunters” buying these lightweight rifles and then throwing a 2 lb scope on there.
Or guys that claim to be in-shape 'hunters', whine about 8 extra ounces. I'm old and outta shape, but having a scope that is a tad weighty-er (but works) has NEVER held me back.
Never heard anyone coming back from an actual long distance hiking hunt saying they wanted a heavier rifle/scope. There is a huge difference in 8 ounces of live weight bouncing in your hands rather than attached to your body.
And a big wish it was there where your Leupold fails 15 miles in..
If anyone thought that Leupold was going to come out and say, we know we have a zero retention issue or a tracking issue, your nuts. Imagine what a competitor would do with a statement like that. I have no doubt a few people recorded the presentation and its likely been seen by folks in the sales and marketing groups of some competitors by now. If leupold had admitted an issue it would be all over the internet, just like the MPI popsicle stick picture was a few years ago.
Working for a big company I can tell you it takes a lot of repeated feed back to get the folks in product management to see issues. If Doug's out reach to leupold did just a tiny part of it its good thing. Its likely going to take more and then, engineering changes take months or years to affect and advertising that changes are under ways is the same as saying current product isn't up to snuff, so your unlikely to hear anything until there is a new design ready to hit the market.
They wouldn't be in business for as long as they have without having something on the ball. I wonder if Leupold is taking this seriously? Are they discussing options for the way forward, or are they going to bury their head in the sand? It's a waiting game now to see what, if anything, they intend to do to placate their present and future customer base.
I always get a belly chuckle when I see “hunters” buying these lightweight rifles and then throwing a 2 lb scope on there.
Or guys that claim to be in-shape 'hunters', whine about 8 extra ounces. I'm old and outta shape, but having a scope that is a tad weighty-er (but works) has NEVER held me back.
I'm with h22 on this. I put NF SHV on all my rifles except 1 - all Kimber Montana's BTW. I've been carrying them day hunting, backpacking, hunting in mountains, east and west, and never noticed the extra 7-8 oz. I'll not trade reliability for 7-8 oz ever again. I'll be sure to shoot a bull with 8oz less antlers for the trip back to the truck to compensate. Or maybe I'll give the Gray Jays an extra handful of meat to chew on.
I always get a belly chuckle when I see “hunters” buying these lightweight rifles and then throwing a 2 lb scope on there.
Or guys that claim to be in-shape 'hunters', whine about 8 extra ounces. I'm old and outta shape, but having a scope that is a tad weighty-er (but works) has NEVER held me back.
I'm with h22 on this. I put NF SHV on all my rifles except 1 - all Kimber Montana's BTW. I've been carrying them day hunting, backpacking, hunting in mountains, east and west, and never noticed the extra 7-8 oz. I'll not trade reliability for 7-8 oz ever again. I'll be sure to shoot a bull with 8oz less antlers for the trip back to the truck to compensate. Or maybe I'll give the Gray Jays an extra handful of meat to chew on.
If you are actively holding the rifle in your hands the majority of the time, weight does make a difference. 8 ounces of pack weight is a different animal.
Side note: it’s completely laughable you’re talking about reliability of equipment yet you hunt with Kimber rifles.
The most interesting thing is seeing the folks that unapologetically are still defending Leupold after that joke of a presentation. Their attitude and condescending tone was embarrassing. Anyone associated with that presentation should be embarrassed.
Brand loyalty makes lots of folks blind to reality. Elmer Fudds like Redgewell are exactly who their clientele is and won't be around forever.
I have nothing to do with this thread.
You are a classic troll. Try to stay focused on the discussion. Please feel free to contribute something positive rather than trying, and failing, to rabble rouse.
Does anyone here REALLY care how other folks spend their money?
I sure don't.
Is there anyone who regularly participates on this site, other than Mule Deer, who is an opinion leader and just by his words, can change people's minds about a product or service?
Does anyone here REALLY care how other folks spend their money?
I sure don't.
Is there anyone who regularly participates on this site, other than Mule Deer, who is an opinion leader and just by his words, can change people's minds about a product or service?
None that I'm aware of.
I don't think anyone here, including John, has the power to change a lot of minds. Dollars drive things.
A cynic would say Leupold doesn't care.
Someone with a hopeful view might say that Leupold came here to take a reading on the market share. Is 24 Hr Campfire representative of the scope buying public? I suppose the Leupold MBAs will add the comments from here to the info pile to see if a change is warranted.
When companies like Leupold become tone deaf to the customer and falls behind trends , then display arrogance that they know better than said customer base...... well they go away in time... I know the rep said they aren't going anywhere..... they may not but the customer surely will.....
They wouldn't be in business for as long as they have without having something on the ball. I wonder if Leupold is taking this seriously? Are they discussing options for the way forward, or are they going to bury their head in the sand? It's a waiting game now to see what, if anything, they intend to do to placate their present and future customer base.
It's plain to see what Leupolds approach to these complaints is. This ain't a reality tv show where you have to tune in next week to see the exciting climax. It's right there in plain sight.
They wouldn't be in business for as long as they have without having something on the ball. I wonder if Leupold is taking this seriously? Are they discussing options for the way forward, or are they going to bury their head in the sand? It's a waiting game now to see what, if anything, they intend to do to placate their present and future customer base.
It's plain to see what Leupolds approach to these complaints is. This ain't a reality tv show where you have to tune in next week to see the exciting climax. It's right there in plain sight.
Originally Posted by Fireball2
Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
Originally Posted by Fireball2
Leupold knows, way before the dog and pony show.
They wouldn't be in business for as long as they have without having something on the ball. I wonder if Leupold is taking this seriously? Are they discussing options for the way forward, or are they going to bury their head in the sand? It's a waiting game now to see what, if anything, they intend to do to placate their present and future customer base.
It's plain to see what Leupolds approach to these complaints is. This ain't a reality tv show where you have to tune in next week to see the exciting climax. It's right there in plain sight.
The most interesting thing is seeing the folks that unapologetically are still defending Leupold after that joke of a presentation. Their attitude and condescending tone was embarrassing. Anyone associated with that presentation should be embarrassed.
Brand loyalty makes lots of folks blind to reality. Elmer Fudds like Redgewell are exactly who they are marketing too...
Funny thing is Leupold seems to be trying to market more to the flatbrim crowd with their presentation. Suppose they figure the Fudds are already locked down....but they aren't helping themselves in that department either, by discontinuing gloss scopes, some of the fixed powers, and redesigning their scopes to look more tacticool than streamlined and classic.
Trying to fit in with the cool kids with products the cool kids don't want because the products don't work correctly, while losing out on the old timers by discontinuing the products they use, all from a site that looks like it was designed for a suburban house wife's cooking blog. Not sure what Leupold's deal is these days.
I think it is funny a three year employee “runs” service. It would have been more valuable to let a grizzled, gray haired “tech” address the Fire’s main concerns with tracking and dialing.
Does anyone here REALLY care how other folks spend their money?
I sure don't.
Is there anyone who regularly participates on this site, other than Mule Deer, who is an opinion leader and just by his words, can change people's minds about a product or service?
None that I'm aware of.
I don't think anyone here, including John, has the power to change a lot of minds. Dollars drive things.
A cynic would say Leupold doesn't care.
Someone with a hopeful view might say that Leupold came here to take a reading on the market share. Is 24 Hr Campfire representative of the scope buying public? I suppose the Leupold MBAs will add the comments from from here into the info pile to see if a change is warranted.
Marketing is very sophisticated and there is a lot of consumer data available to make marketing, product, and sales decisions with. I would suspect that 24HCF members account for a fraction of 1% of the scope buying universe and although negative aspects that have been pointed out to Leupold may be 100% valid, we are too small of a market share to drive change. Even 35 years ago, before the internet, Philip Morris had consumer data down to the neighborhood level that the marketing and sales people used to push different brands and styles of cigarettes. Marketing 101, incremental shelf space, dictates that you expand your brand options and push your competitors' products off the shelf or at least to a less desirable place on the shelf. Winston and Salem just didn't die, Marlboro killed them, metaphorically speaking of course.
I think that you're wrong about John's opinion not counting for much. One person's opinion can make a difference. In shooting sports, JOC made the 270 and Layne Simpson saved the 7mm-08.
Does anyone here REALLY care how other folks spend their money?
I sure don't.
Is there anyone who regularly participates on this site, other than Mule Deer, who is an opinion leader and just by his words, can change people's minds about a product or service?
None that I'm aware of.
I don't think anyone here, including John, has the power to change a lot of minds. Dollars drive things.
A cynic would say Leupold doesn't care.
Someone with a hopeful view might say that Leupold came here to take a reading on the market share. Is 24 Hr Campfire representative of the scope buying public? I suppose the Leupold MBAs will add the comments from from here into the info pile to see if a change is warranted.
Marketing is very sophisticated and there is a lot of consumer data available to make marketing, product, and sales decisions with. I would suspect that 24HCF members account for a fraction of 1% of the scope buying universe and although negative aspects that have been pointed out to Leupold may be 100% valid, we are too small of a market share to drive change. Even 35 years ago, before the internet, Philip Morris had consumer data down to the neighborhood level that the marketing and sales people used to push different brands and styles of cigarettes. Marketing 101, incremental shelf space, dictates that you expand your brand options and push your competitors' products off the shelf or at least to a less desirable place on the shelf. Winston and Salem just didn't die, Marlboro killed them, metaphorically speaking of course.
I think that you're wrong about John's opinion not counting for much. One person's opinion can make a difference. In shooting sports, JOC made the 270 and Layne Simpson saved the 7mm-08.
I'm sure that Leupold has their share of bean counters on staff. I doubt 24 Hr Campfire accounts for much, but it's all part of the information gathering. Given the poor presentation made by Leupold, it seems that they don't believe 24 Hr Campfire has anything relevant to say. It didn't appear that they put the A Team on for their presentation.
WRT John, I am sure everyone here appreciates what he has to say, but I believe he has a greater influence on readers of the magazines where he's featured. That would be sheer number of Handloader readers for example, as opposed to the number of Campfire readers.
The most interesting thing is seeing the folks that unapologetically are still defending Leupold after that joke of a presentation. Their attitude and condescending tone was embarrassing. Anyone associated with that presentation should be embarrassed.
Brand loyalty makes lots of folks blind to reality. Elmer Fudds like Redgewell are exactly who they are marketing too...
Funny thing is Leupold seems to be trying to market more to the flatbrim crowd with their presentation. Suppose they figure the Fudds are already locked down....but they aren't helping themselves in that department either, by discontinuing gloss scopes, some of the fixed powers, and redesigning their scopes to look more tacticool than streamlined and classic.
Trying to fit in with the cool kids with products the cool kids don't want because the products don't work correctly, while losing out on the old timers by discontinuing the products they use, all from a site that looks like it was designed for a suburban house wife's cooking blog. Not sure what Leupold's deal is these days.
I agree. The Fudds are all older and won't be around at some point was my point .
The flat brimmers in these parts almost all run Vortex but that's another discussion entirely...
Only change was scopes. The Leupold right the NXS left.
Both shot at 100 guess I can focus a Nightforce! Left was five shots right was 6 as I was going nuts over the way the rifle was shooting ie another busted Leupold
The most interesting thing is seeing the folks that unapologetically are still defending Leupold after that joke of a presentation. Their attitude and condescending tone was embarrassing. Anyone associated with that presentation should be embarrassed.
Brand loyalty makes lots of folks blind to reality. Elmer Fudds like Redgewell are exactly who they are marketing too...
Funny thing is Leupold seems to be trying to market more to the flatbrim crowd with their presentation. Suppose they figure the Fudds are already locked down....but they aren't helping themselves in that department either, by discontinuing gloss scopes, some of the fixed powers, and redesigning their scopes to look more tacticool than streamlined and classic.
Trying to fit in with the cool kids with products the cool kids don't want because the products don't work correctly, while losing out on the old timers by discontinuing the products they use, all from a site that looks like it was designed for a suburban house wife's cooking blog. Not sure what Leupold's deal is these days.
I agree. The Fudds are all older and won't be around at some point was my point .
The flat brimmer's in these parts almost all run Vortex...
Maybe this has already been pointed out by someone else on another thread but it sounds like you’re upset that Leopold’s marketing isn’t catering specifically to you. I understand that you may be upset but this is a safe space and we are here for you, son.
The most interesting thing is seeing the folks that unapologetically are still defending Leupold after that joke of a presentation. Their attitude and condescending tone was embarrassing. Anyone associated with that presentation should be embarrassed.
Brand loyalty makes lots of folks blind to reality. Elmer Fudds like Redgewell are exactly who they are marketing too...
Funny thing is Leupold seems to be trying to market more to the flatbrim crowd with their presentation. Suppose they figure the Fudds are already locked down....but they aren't helping themselves in that department either, by discontinuing gloss scopes, some of the fixed powers, and redesigning their scopes to look more tacticool than streamlined and classic.
Trying to fit in with the cool kids with products the cool kids don't want because the products don't work correctly, while losing out on the old timers by discontinuing the products they use, all from a site that looks like it was designed for a suburban house wife's cooking blog. Not sure what Leupold's deal is these days.
I agree. The Fudds are all older and won't be around at some point was my point .
The flat brimmer's in these parts almost all run Vortex...
Maybe this has already been pointed out by someone else on another thread but it sounds like you’re upset that Leopold’s marketing isn’t catering specifically to you. I understand that you may be upset but this is a safe space and we are here for you, son.
Only change was scopes. The Leupold right the NXS left.
Both shot at 100 guess I can focus a Nightforce! Left was five shots right was 6 as I was going nuts over the way the rifle was shooting ie another busted Leupold
That is quite the spread on the right. What choke are you using?
The most interesting thing is seeing the folks that unapologetically are still defending Leupold after that joke of a presentation. Their attitude and condescending tone was embarrassing. Anyone associated with that presentation should be embarrassed.
Brand loyalty makes lots of folks blind to reality. Elmer Fudds like Redgewell are exactly who they are marketing too...
Funny thing is Leupold seems to be trying to market more to the flatbrim crowd with their presentation. Suppose they figure the Fudds are already locked down....but they aren't helping themselves in that department either, by discontinuing gloss scopes, some of the fixed powers, and redesigning their scopes to look more tacticool than streamlined and classic.
Trying to fit in with the cool kids with products the cool kids don't want because the products don't work correctly, while losing out on the old timers by discontinuing the products they use, all from a site that looks like it was designed for a suburban house wife's cooking blog. Not sure what Leupold's deal is these days.
Agreed. Also, the flat brim hat wearing, man bun crowd doesn't have any money compared to those who they should be catering to. Anyone who is half way in touch with the hunting community is obviously absent from Leupold's organization, or they wouldn't have let those two clowns represent the company. It was way embarrassing.
Only change was scopes. The Leupold right the NXS left.
Both shot at 100 guess I can focus a Nightforce! Left was five shots right was 6 as I was going nuts over the way the rifle was shooting ie another busted Leupold
That is quite the spread on the right. What choke are you using?
Does anyone here REALLY care how other folks spend their money?
I sure don't.
Is there anyone who regularly participates on this site, other than Mule Deer, who is an opinion leader and just by his words, can change people's minds about a product or service?
None that I'm aware of.
I don't think anyone here, including John, has the power to change a lot of minds. Dollars drive things.
A cynic would say Leupold doesn't care.
Someone with a hopeful view might say that Leupold came here to take a reading on the market share. Is 24 Hr Campfire representative of the scope buying public? I suppose the Leupold MBAs will add the comments from from here into the info pile to see if a change is warranted.
Marketing is very sophisticated and there is a lot of consumer data available to make marketing, product, and sales decisions with. I would suspect that 24HCF members account for a fraction of 1% of the scope buying universe and although negative aspects that have been pointed out to Leupold may be 100% valid, we are too small of a market share to drive change. Even 35 years ago, before the internet, Philip Morris had consumer data down to the neighborhood level that the marketing and sales people used to push different brands and styles of cigarettes. Marketing 101, incremental shelf space, dictates that you expand your brand options and push your competitors' products off the shelf or at least to a less desirable place on the shelf. Winston and Salem just didn't die, Marlboro killed them, metaphorically speaking of course.
I think that you're wrong about John's opinion not counting for much. One person's opinion can make a difference. In shooting sports, JOC made the 270 and Layne Simpson saved the 7mm-08.
I'm sure that Leupold has their share of bean counters on staff. I doubt 24 Hr Campfire accounts for much, but it's all part of the information gathering. Given the poor presentation made by Leupold, it seems that they don't believe 24 Hr Campfire has anything relevant to say. It didn't appear that they put the A Team on for their presentation.
WRT John, I am sure everyone here appreciates what he has to say, but I believe he has a greater influence on readers of the magazines where he's featured. That would be sheer number of Handloader readers for example, as opposed to the number of Campfire readers.
I agree that John's published articles reach a much larger audience than do his posts on this site, but I think that if John came out strongly in favor of some new product, people on this site would take notice.
I consider myself to be an expert in the things that I do and am mostly indifferent to the things that others do as long as those things don't directly impact me in a negative manner. I'm happy to share my experiences, but whether people agree or disagree, I could care less.
I thought of another couple of opinion leaders, Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton in the handgun universe.
The most interesting thing is seeing the folks that unapologetically are still defending Leupold after that joke of a presentation. Their attitude and condescending tone was embarrassing. Anyone associated with that presentation should be embarrassed.
Brand loyalty makes lots of folks blind to reality. Elmer Fudds like Redgewell are exactly who they are marketing too...
Funny thing is Leupold seems to be trying to market more to the flatbrim crowd with their presentation. Suppose they figure the Fudds are already locked down....but they aren't helping themselves in that department either, by discontinuing gloss scopes, some of the fixed powers, and redesigning their scopes to look more tacticool than streamlined and classic.
Trying to fit in with the cool kids with products the cool kids don't want because the products don't work correctly, while losing out on the old timers by discontinuing the products they use, all from a site that looks like it was designed for a suburban house wife's cooking blog. Not sure what Leupold's deal is these days.
Agreed. Also, the flat brim hat wearing, man bun crowd doesn't have any money compared to those who they should be catering to. Anyone who is half way in touch with the hunting community is obviously absent from Leupold's organization, or they wouldn't have let those two clowns represent the company. It was way embarrassing.
Another snowflake that got their feelers hurt cause Leopold’s marketing doesn’t cater to their appearance. Your life must be terrible son
Marketing is very sophisticated and there is a lot of consumer data available to make marketing, product, and sales decisions with. I would suspect that 24HCF members account for a fraction of 1% of the scope buying universe and although negative aspects that have been pointed out to Leupold may be 100% valid, we are too small of a market share to drive change.
I would guess this is the situation we're dealing with. There may not be enough people who demand precision and reliability in tracking and zero retention for Leupold to pay serious attention.
I agree that John's published articles reach a much larger audience than do his posts on this site, but I think that if John came out strongly in favor of some new product, people on this site would take notice.
I consider myself to be an expert in the things that I do and am mostly indifferent to the things that others do as long as those things don't directly impact me in a negative manner. I'm happy to share my experiences, but whether people agree or disagree, I could care less.
I thought of another couple of opinion leaders, Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton in the handgun universe.
I think John is wise to stay away from topics like this. You have 3 sides. The pro and anti Leupold people, and a third, 'I'm just here to stir the pot' group.
Just curious since I'm also a new 'guy'. Is Post count a method of identifying who is most knowledgeable around here? Or, do we just learn who is full of noise by hanging around long enough, and learn how actually knows stuff. Or, does post count just tell me who talks the most?
Is this how you welcome new members? No wonder all the experts live on snipers hide rather than here.
Originally Posted by Huntress1956
Just curious since I'm also a new 'guy'. Is Post count a method of identifying who is most knowledgeable around here? Or, do we just learn who is full of noise by hanging around long enough, and learn how actually knows stuff. Or, does post count just tell me who talks the most?
Don't sweat it. You are new to 24 hr CF, and don't agree with one or more of the posters. They read your posts, puffed out their chests and started spouting off. Fealty is to be paid!
Don't let them bother you. You can even have fun with them. Wanna bet that one or more of the afflicted won't be able to resist replying to this, even though I didn't name names?
I think many people will do what you have already done. No need to switch until something goes wrong, but it will take some time and improvements for Leupold to regain its reputation.
No amount of rhetorical nonsense will legitimize your crusade.
I think many people will do what you have already done. No need to switch until something goes wrong, but it will take some time and improvements for Leupold to regain its reputation.
No amount of rhetorical nonsense will legitimize your crusade.
I think many people will do what you have already done. No need to switch until something goes wrong, but it will take some time and improvements for Leupold to regain its reputation.
No amount of rhetorical nonsense will legitimize your crusade.
What is my crusade? Don't be shy.
...And I thought you’d ask for examples of your rhetorical nonsense.
Okay. But I still maintain that, out of spite, the Leupold haters should all buy Tascos or Simmons scopes and mail the empty boxes to Leupold. Give me a second and I'll dig up their address.
Edited to add: Note that both these companies are owned by Bushnell.
I always get a belly chuckle when I see “hunters” buying these lightweight rifles and then throwing a 2 lb scope on there.
Or guys that claim to be in-shape 'hunters', whine about 8 extra ounces. I'm old and outta shape, but having a scope that is a tad weighty-er (but works) has NEVER held me back.
I'm with h22 on this. I put NF SHV on all my rifles except 1 - all Kimber Montana's BTW. I've been carrying them day hunting, backpacking, hunting in mountains, east and west, and never noticed the extra 7-8 oz. I'll not trade reliability for 7-8 oz ever again. I'll be sure to shoot a bull with 8oz less antlers for the trip back to the truck to compensate. Or maybe I'll give the Gray Jays an extra handful of meat to chew on.
If you are actively holding the rifle in your hands the majority of the time, weight does make a difference. 8 ounces of pack weight is a different animal.
Side note: it’s completely laughable you’re talking about reliability of equipment yet you hunt with Kimber rifles.
Thats funny right there.
Was I post 8 of your total count? You'll be a big hit..............
I always get a belly chuckle when I see “hunters” buying these lightweight rifles and then throwing a 2 lb scope on there.
Or guys that claim to be in-shape 'hunters', whine about 8 extra ounces. I'm old and outta shape, but having a scope that is a tad weighty-er (but works) has NEVER held me back.
I'm with h22 on this. I put NF SHV on all my rifles except 1 - all Kimber Montana's BTW. I've been carrying them day hunting, backpacking, hunting in mountains, east and west, and never noticed the extra 7-8 oz. I'll not trade reliability for 7-8 oz ever again. I'll be sure to shoot a bull with 8oz less antlers for the trip back to the truck to compensate. Or maybe I'll give the Gray Jays an extra handful of meat to chew on.
If you are actively holding the rifle in your hands the majority of the time, weight does make a difference. 8 ounces of pack weight is a different animal.
Side note: it’s completely laughable you’re talking about reliability of equipment yet you hunt with Kimber rifles.
Thats funny right there.
Was I post 8 of your total count? You'll be a big hit..............
Just put a Kimber in the mail a couple days ago... 338WM with the length, belt to shoulder .100" over SAAMI...
Okay. But I still maintain that, out of spite, the Leupold haters should all buy Tascos or Simmons scopes and mail the empty boxes to Leupold. Give me a second and I'll dig up their address.
Edited to add: Note that both these companies are owned by Bushnell.
14400 NW Greenbrier Pkwy, Beaverton, OR 97006 Ask me how I know. The answer to your stupidity is Nightforce
I said this on one of the many posts above : I don't think Leupold cares about the concerns of 24 Hr Campfire members. I'm not sure why.
I would have used the presentation as a PR opportunity.
Alternatively, folks, myself included, wouldn’t have participated in Leupold's livestream, if they didn’t care. While each has their own reasons, I’d argue the vast majority arrived with hope for Leupold’s future. Whether that hope was driven by nostalgia, or lingering pride in what was an American icon, or just the simple utility of need, the welcome they received seems to have been construed as either graceless, patronizing, disingenuous or some combination of the three.
Fact is.... Leupold knows their tracking sucks... they don’t give a schitt.... because most of the general public can’t tell the difference.
Frud’s picture above is worth 1000 words... period.
Then, to top that off.... the day after the head of Leupolds Service Dept. got on here and Snow-Jobbed everyone about “1-week turn around times”.... Fruddy was told 4 weeks!
You can’t make that kind of Bush-League schitt up.... and anyone who thinks that isn’t straight-up telling us they don’t care.... is either a fuggin moron.... or Redgwell’s twin brother.
JG was the next to the last (Jud ) Leupold holdout. He gave them more than a fair chance.
True. He held on for a damn long time. Like the rest of us that demand more from our equipment, he was wise to drop them like a hot potato. Of course thats what a smart person does, though, when you get burned one too many times.
Fact is.... Leupold knows their tracking sucks... they don’t give a schitt.... because most of the general public can’t tell the difference.
Frud’s picture above is worth 1000 words... period.
Then, to top that off.... the day after the head of Leupolds Service Dept. got on here and Snow-Jobbed everyone about “1-week turn around times”.... Fruddy was told 4 weeks!
You can’t make that kind of Bush-League schitt up.... and anyone who thinks that isn’t straight-up telling us they don’t care.... is either a fuggin moron.... or Redgwell’s twin brother.
I'm sensing some anger. I would write a pointed letter to whoever you feel is responsible for all this.
I was a Swaro slut until I got tired of their stuff breaking and me having to pay for it and being blamed for the breaking...
Never own another Swaro. The CS guy was not happy when I told him I'd be selling all my Swaro stuff and switching brands, especially after he checked my sales history...
I said this on one of the many posts above : I don't think Leupold cares about the concerns of 24 Hr Campfire members. I'm not sure why.
I would have used the presentation as a PR opportunity.
Alternatively, folks, myself included, wouldn’t have participated in Leupold's livestream, if they didn’t care. While each has their own reasons, I’d argue the vast majority arrived with hope for Leupold’s future. Whether that hope was driven by nostalgia, or lingering pride in what was an American icon, or just the simple utility of need, the welcome they received seems to have been construed as either graceless, patronizing, disingenuous or some combination of the three.
I seemed that way. You can certainly sense the anger here. I hope that they can put the wheels back on, but if their bean counters say all is well, nothing will change.
Only change was scopes. The Leupold right the NXS left.
Both shot at 100 guess I can focus a Nightforce! Left was five shots right was 6 as I was going nuts over the way the rifle was shooting ie another busted Leupold
[quote=fredIII]Only change was scopes. The Leupold right the NXS left.
Man in my earlier years of shooting so many rifles were left st “oh well it’s minute of deer” with Leupys on them...”Yeah I flinched on those two” ... “something probably isn’t right” ... “wind caught that one”... I’m owed a few boxes of ammo, minimum.
I'm sensing some anger. I would write a pointed letter to whoever you feel is responsible for all this.
I’m sensing some idiocy...
Facts is Facts: Leupold straight-up LIED... to all our faces... and got caught the next f’n day.
What else did they lie about?
If I’m wrong.... please regale me...
I'm still sensing some anger. And Leupold's behaviour is my fault because...
You need to focus your anger where it belongs. There's a few of you in that boat. But I've got thick skin, so fire away.
Steve, you’re hanging your ass out again for a purpose one can guess is for entertainment value. Dog, just happens to be fluent in scopes and identifying those who wear clown suits. 😎
And what do you have going on in TN? Regale us on your experience with anything except running your mouth at Big Stick.
Steve, you hop into this thread seeking information that was answered many times when you were the OP asking for alternatives to Leupold a week ago. Ad nauseam.
And what do you have going on in TN? Regale us on your experience with anything except running your mouth at Big Stick.
Steve, you hop into this thread seeking information that was answered many times when you were the OP asking for alternatives to Leupold a week ago. Ad nauseam.
😎
How are those sig scopes working?or did you already sell em because Form said so?
You knock Leupold in one thread then show pics of them mounted in another . Did you really start your dissatisfaction with Leupold after you were told by former employees they were being made with cheaper parts?!
And what do you have going on in TN? Regale us on your experience with anything except running your mouth at Big Stick.
Steve, you hop into this thread seeking information that was answered many times when you were the OP asking for alternatives to Leupold a week ago. Ad nauseam.
😎
I'll never forget my first trip to Nashville, but I digress. I'm afraid that I don't know Big Stick. Who is he?
Back to the question. It wasn't really answered. A lot of anger came out, but few answers to my question, which was:
Given the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Leupold's live streaming event, what will you buy now?
I'm spell it out for you.
I asked, Given the overwhelmingly negative to Leupold's live streaming event (which happened after I asked the question on a previous thread), what will you buy now?
A few posts after that, I added,
"After the live streaming, it seemed that the majority of people weren't happy with Leupold's answers. The responses have been overwhelmingly negative. Does that mean even more people are rethinking a Leupold purchase?"
A couple of people answered. Most just vented their anger towards Leupold. Like many threads that happen here, they spin off in different directions.
And what do you have going on in TN? Regale us on your experience with anything except running your mouth at Big Stick.
Steve, you hop into this thread seeking information that was answered many times when you were the OP asking for alternatives to Leupold a week ago. Ad nauseam.
😎
I'll never forget my first trip to Nashville, but I digress. I'm afraid that I don't know Big Stick. Who is he?
Back to the question. It wasn't really answered. A lot of anger came out, but few answers to my question, which was:
Given the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Leupold's live streaming event, what will you buy now?
I'm spell it out for you.
I asked, Given the overwhelmingly negative to Leupold's live streaming event (which happened after I asked the question on a previous thread), what will you buy now?
A few posts after that, I added,
"After the live streaming, it seemed that the majority of people weren't happy with Leupold's answers. The responses have been overwhelmingly negative. Does that mean even more people are rethinking a Leupold purchase?"
A couple of people answered. Most just vented their anger towards Leupold. Like many threads that happen here, they spin off in different directions.
You should revisit Nashville. There is a hockey team now, Redgwell.
Back to the question. It wasn't really answered. A lot of anger came out, but few answers to my question, which was:
Given the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Leupold's live streaming event, what will you buy now?
I'm spell it out for you.
I asked, Given the overwhelmingly negative to Leupold's live streaming event (which happened after I asked the question on a previous thread), what will you buy now?
A few posts after that, I added,
"After the live streaming, it seemed that the majority of people weren't happy with Leupold's answers. The responses have been overwhelmingly negative. Does that mean even more people are rethinking a Leupold purchase?"
A couple of people answered. Most just vented their anger towards Leupold. Like many threads that happen here, they spin off in different directions.
And what do you have going on in TN? Regale us on your experience with anything except running your mouth at Big Stick.
Steve, you hop into this thread seeking information that was answered many times when you were the OP asking for alternatives to Leupold a week ago. Ad nauseam.
😎
I'll never forget my first trip to Nashville, but I digress. I'm afraid that I don't know Big Stick. Who is he?
Back to the question. It wasn't really answered. A lot of anger came out, but few answers to my question, which was:
Given the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Leupold's live streaming event, what will you buy now?
I'm spell it out for you.
I asked, Given the overwhelmingly negative to Leupold's live streaming event (which happened after I asked the question on a previous thread), what will you buy now?
A few posts after that, I added,
"After the live streaming, it seemed that the majority of people weren't happy with Leupold's answers. The responses have been overwhelmingly negative. Does that mean even more people are rethinking a Leupold purchase?"
A couple of people answered. Most just vented their anger towards Leupold. Like many threads that happen here, they spin off in different directions.
I hear ya. I recently rebarreled one of my Kimbers because I didnt care for 1.5-2.0" groups. My point was based on reliability. I've yet to hear of a Kimber 'failing to run', having a bolt handle pop off, trigger break, etc. Apparently I've had exceptional luck with the 10-11 or so I've had. I have 4 in the safe now and all will consistently print at least MOA with a hunting bullet. I've yet to have one fail to operate as designed since my first one 15-16-17 years ago.
11/2016 Montana, not running out of the box due to wonky assembly. Also had crossthreaded rear takedown screw. But, great little rifle now.
Well Steve, I answered that on page 4. I am not a Leupold hater, some have been very good scopes that have served very well. I looked at NightForce, but dang 30 ounces? Does not seem to be the scope on a light weight Sako. Bought Burris (now back for tracking) and Meopta that I have yet to shoot with.
Well Steve, I answered that on page 4. I am not a Leupold hater, some have been very good scopes that have served very well. I looked at NightForce, but dang 30 ounces? Does not seem to be the scope on a light weight Sako. Bought Burris (now back for tracking) and Meopta that I have yet to shoot with.
But it wasn't because of all the trouble with Leupold that made you switch to Burris, was it?
And what do you have going on in TN? Regale us on your experience with anything except running your mouth at Big Stick.
Steve, you hop into this thread seeking information that was answered many times when you were the OP asking for alternatives to Leupold a week ago. Ad nauseam.
😎
How are those sig scopes working?or did you already sell em because Form said so?
You knock Leupold in one thread then show pics of them mounted in another . Did you really start your dissatisfaction with Leupold after you were told by former employees they were being made with cheaper parts?!
That’s cute watching you poke your chest out... I’m more than able to make mistakes and correct them at a whim...Which means I have experience with optics you likely don’t...I may be wrong, but since I don’t pay attention to much you post. You might be the Fire’s most knowledgeable guy, but I doubt it.
Here’s a sample of a few optics I work with. All have been stellar. Yes, I still have several Leupold’s that adorn some varmint rigs.
Now back to my original question...What is it you do in TN again besides pop-off like a child? 😎
I am getting trolled here? Have had sever Burris scopes over the years. All have been good. The Veracity was a twofer deal. Got a FF for basically free. Good scope and has been tested. The Veracity was the "new" one, all the bells and several whistles. Well it didn't track well. Will see what Burris does on their "lifetime" warranty.
And what do you have going on in TN? Regale us on your experience with anything except running your mouth at Big Stick.
Steve, you hop into this thread seeking information that was answered many times when you were the OP asking for alternatives to Leupold a week ago. Ad nauseam.
😎
How are those sig scopes working?or did you already sell em because Form said so?
You knock Leupold in one thread then show pics of them mounted in another . Did you really start your dissatisfaction with Leupold after you were told by former employees they were being made with cheaper parts?!
That’s cute watching you poke your chest out... I’m more than able to make mistakes and correct them at a whim...Which means I have experience with optics you likely don’t...I may be wrong, but since I don’t pay attention to much you post. You might be the Fire’s most knowledgeable guy, but I doubt it.
Here’s a sample of a few optics I work with. All have been stellar. Yes, I still have several Leupold’s that adorn some varmint rigs.
Now back to my original question...What is it you do in TN again besides pop-off like a child? 😎
What I do in TN is none of your business. Now go ask the experts what you “should” run.
I am getting trolled here? Have had sever Burris scopes over the years. All have been good. The Veracity was a twofer deal. Got a FF for basically free. Good scope and has been tested. The Veracity was the "new" one, all the bells and several whistles. Well it didn't track well. Will see what Burris does on their "lifetime" warranty.
No, you're not being trolled, but there is a lot of it going on in this thread.
Given the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Leupold's live streaming event, what will you buy now?
Steve,
I purchase things slowly. I purchased my last scope more than a year ago, really not sure when. I think it was more than 2 years ago even. It was a Leupold fixed power.
I have a VX6 that I'm not super impressed with. I've already sent it back to Leupold once and they claimed there was nothing wrong with it. I don't know that I agree--when I change the power magnification selector the point of impact changes slightly. I think that probably indicates something is wrong. Glass is good, shooting accuracy not as good.
I'm considering my options for a new scope that will go on a wood stocked 7 Mashburn still being made. I've considered:
1) Schmidt and Bender 3-12x42 with TDS reticle. I called CLNY yesterday but Neil was out, and I haven't called back yet.
2) Nightforce NXS, either 2.5-10 or 3.5-15. I'm a little hesitant on the Nightforce because I don't know that I'll like the tactical lines on a traditional rifle.
3) SWFA SS, same range of magnification. Same concern as the Nightforce for the appearance.
Long story short I can afford anything Leupold makes, not sure I'll get one from them. I do have a spare Leupold 6x42 LRD that I can use in the meantime, I've had good luck with them. Shame Leupold is essentially killing off the fixed power line by making that awful wide duplex reticle the standard, and they don't make Alumina covers for the 6x42 any more.
Also a shame that I don't want to get another VX6 and drop more than $1000 on a scope that has something wrong with it out of the box. I'm willing to spend money on quality, and I will walk away before I throw even a small amount of money at crap.
That's a tough spot to be in. You don't want to put out the money and get something which might cause you grief in a short while.
I'm throwing this out there. Almost everyone is aware of these makers. Some people were concerned about finding a fixed power scope. A lot of European makers. 100s of scopes. I'm sure that reviews can be had for specific models, but for most, their reputation precedes them. If nothing else, having a look here is a pleasant way to pass the time.
But I got Talley LW on about every rifle in the safe, I kill big deer and (1) elk with 80 grain varmint bullets too!!!😁🖕
I broke two pair of Talley LW's before I gave up. I must be hell on wheels. But I will admit, a redneck can tear up anything. I notice Pat uses them on sporter weight rifles. They can't be too bad. There's still a few rifles in the safe that wear them.
But I got Talley LW on about every rifle in the safe, I kill big deer and (1) elk with 80 grain varmint bullets too!!!😁🖕
I broke two pair of Talley LW's before I gave up. I must be hell on wheels. But I will admit, a redneck can tear up anything. I notice Pat uses them on sporter weight rifles. They can't be too bad.
So 2% of Leupolds are returned for repair and 2% are actually found to have problems. Now that is QC, do they think people are that gullible? Whatever happened to companies with integrity? I bought my last Leupold in 2012 a VXR 3-9x40 .
Im pretty sure they said 2 OUT OF 1,000 (0.2%)come back for repair, then ONLY 2 OUT OF 100(2%) of those actually are defective. So that is saying that 98% of people sending their Leupold back really are ‘OK’.
So 2% of Leupolds are returned for repair and 2% are actually found to have problems. Now that is QC, do they think people are that gullible? Whatever happened to companies with integrity? I bought my last Leupold in 2012 a VXR 3-9x40 .
Im pretty sure they said 2 OUT OF 1,000 (0.2%)come back for repair, then ONLY 2 OUT OF 100(2%) of those actually are defective. So that is saying that 98% of people sending their Leupold back really are ‘OK’.
Yeah....that's a 0.004% failure rate. Riiight....
You might as well say 0% !!
Im gonna say the dynamic duo botched that part /detail during the presentation as well. What are failure rates of popular scope makers?2% ? 4% ?
So 2% of Leupolds are returned for repair and 2% are actually found to have problems. Now that is QC, do they think people are that gullible? Whatever happened to companies with integrity? I bought my last Leupold in 2012 a VXR 3-9x40 .
Im pretty sure they said 2 OUT OF 1,000 (0.2%)come back for repair, then ONLY 2 OUT OF 100(2%) of those actually are defective. So that is saying that 98% of people sending their Leupold back really are ‘OK’.
Yeah....that's a 0.004% failure rate. Riiight....
You might as well say 0% !!
Im gonna say the dynamic duo botched that part /detail during the presentation as well. What are failure rates of popular scope makers?2% ? 4% ?
Dang! I must be really unlucky. I only had 2 leupild dialers and they both failed 3 times. I will probably get struck by lightning next!
Aren't Elmers the people who spend the majority of the money that keeps shooting sports manufacturers in business?
Individually they probably don't spend a lot of money and they probably don't buy top shelf equipment very often, if ever, but there are so many of them that the money they spend adds up, allowing the elite among us to keep on shooting. I know of an Elmer from Nebraska named Kevin Petrzilka who had notable success using an old Tasco to aim his old Remington 788. Not that I'm shilling for Tasco, but my point is that you don't need top shelf gear to be a successful hunter, though it is quite the opposite if you aim for success when shooting paper at a competitive level.
Or so it seems to me and that brings us back to my previous question of who gives a crap about what other people do, or buy, or use, regardless of the market niche being discussed?
PS - I like Leupold scopes, Warne rings, and Colt Light Rifles.
I know of an Elmer from Nebraska named Kevin Petrzilka who had notable success using an old Tasco to aim his old Remington 788. Not that I'm shilling for Tasco, but my point is that you don't need top shelf gear to be a successful hunter,
Seems to me there is a family of those "Elmers" in Vermont that have piled up an impressive tally of huge whitetails and they killed the vast majority of them with iron sighted Remington 760's. The name "Benoit" ring any bells ? I know a couple around here that kill whitetails like a barn cat kills mice and they don't use any expensive/sophisticated equipment either.
Sorry, but MuleDeer ‘s posts do not influence my spending.
And you count for a fraction of a percent, so anything that you do is statistically irrelevant
Same as you .any more ground breaking news?
You and I and everybody else on this site EXCEPT John lack the platform to influence the shooting sports universe. Since John is probably the most respected gun writer of his era, that makes whatever he writes about relevant.
I can't say that John has influenced me to buy or not to buy anything that I can think of, other than four or five of the firearms that he has advertised on this site.
OTOH, Warren Page influenced my Father to buy a Remington 660 in 6mm for me when I expressed an interest in hunting deer. JOC's chapter on the 7x57 in THE HUNTING RIFLE influenced me to buy my first centerfire rifle, a sporterized FN 24/30, and Skeeter Skelton influenced my interest in the 5" S&W 27 revolver and the .44 Special cartridge. I was prompted to have Ahlman's cut the barrel on a 6.5" S&W 624 back to 5", combining the best aspects of the S&W 27 and the 44 Special cartridge and probably wouldn't have gone to the effort except for Skeeter's influence. I have been influenced against a couple of rifle cartridges by gun writers, against the 270 for many year by JOC and against the 7mm-08 by Layne Simpson.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, John's restocking of his 722 in 257 Roberts with a 700 MR stock prompted me to do the same with my 722 in 257 Roberts.
Sorry, but MuleDeer ‘s posts do not influence my spending.
And you count for a fraction of a percent, so anything that you do is statistically irrelevant
Same as you .any more ground breaking news?
You and I and everybody else on this site EXCEPT John lack the platform to influence the shooting sports universe.
Nah. Times have changed. When people are shopping for a product, they will Google phrases like "Leupold scope problems", and when page after page of forum results just like the one we're posting on come up, those people may decide to look elsewhere. I do it with just about any product of decent value that I'm looking to purchase, and while obviously I have to take anonymous internet poster's reviews with a grain of salt, forum posts may establish a trend and are one tool in the toolbox to make a purchasing decision. Long way of saying that we, as a group, have an influence on others.
Sorry, but MuleDeer ‘s posts do not influence my spending.
And you count for a fraction of a percent, so anything that you do is statistically irrelevant
Same as you .any more ground breaking news?
You and I and everybody else on this site EXCEPT John lack the platform to influence the shooting sports universe.
Nah. Times have changed. When people are shopping for a product, they will Google phrases like "Leupold scope problems", and when page after page of forum results just like the one we're posting on come up, those people may decide to look elsewhere. I do it with just about any product of decent value that I'm looking to purchase, and while obviously I have to take anonymous internet poster's reviews with a grain of salt, forum posts may establish a trend and are one tool in the toolbox to make a purchasing decision. Long way of saying that we, as a group, have an influence on others.
Maybe so. There is probably as much, maybe even more, incorrect information on the internet as there is correct information. Almost everybody who posts a YOUTUBE video has an agenda, so fair and balanced reporting is always a question worth asking.
Aren't Elmers the people who spend the majority of the money that keeps shooting sports manufacturers in business?
Individually they probably don't spend a lot of money and they probably don't buy top shelf equipment very often, if ever, but there are so many of them that the money they spend adds up, allowing the elite among us to keep on shooting. I know of an Elmer from Nebraska named Kevin Petrzilka who had notable success using an old Tasco to aim his old Remington 788. Not that I'm shilling for Tasco, but my point is that you don't need top shelf gear to be a successful hunter, though it is quite the opposite if you aim for success when shooting paper at a competitive level.
Or so it seems to me and that brings us back to my previous question of who gives a crap about what other people do, or buy, or use, regardless of the market niche being discussed?
PS - I like Leupold scopes, Warne rings, and Colt Light Rifles.
That has been my contention since day one.....the general hunting public, the average hunter, whatever you call them are perfectly happy with Leupold products and Vortex products for that matter, neither of which Form and others here says are worth a crap, "Specialty" scopes let's call them such as NF, Bushy Elite tacticals, SWFA's, etc that are know to be robust, reliable, and hardy, occupy a relatively small niche. It is obviously growing, but still relatively small. That's how Leupy and Vortex remain $100M companies, they appeal to the masses. I've started buying other stuff for my uses, personally.
So 2% of Leupolds are returned for repair and 2% are actually found to have problems. Now that is QC, do they think people are that gullible? Whatever happened to companies with integrity? I bought my last Leupold in 2012 a VXR 3-9x40 .
Im pretty sure they said 2 OUT OF 1,000 (0.2%)come back for repair, then ONLY 2 OUT OF 100(2%) of those actually are defective. So that is saying that 98% of people sending their Leupold back really are ‘OK’.
Yeah....that's a 0.004% failure rate. Riiight....
You might as well say 0% !!
Im gonna say the dynamic duo botched that part /detail during the presentation as well. What are failure rates of popular scope makers?2% ? 4% ?
I think they did botch it, or at least the ad hoc mention of first 2%, then what I think was less than 2% of those returned (which might loosely have been saying less than 2% since not all returned were found to fail, but maybe not?) and then the mention of 2 of every one thousand. So by the end of that, one is left wondering had it been stated more deliberately what it would have been. A little more preparation for the event and less shooting from the hip would have been helpful. Another thought to muddy the waters is, what percentage of customers ever bother to return a scope that fails? Not quite as easy a number to get at but perhaps could be statistically estimated roughly.
Aren't Elmers the people who spend the majority of the money that keeps shooting sports manufacturers in business?
Individually they probably don't spend a lot of money and they probably don't buy top shelf equipment very often, if ever, but there are so many of them that the money they spend adds up, allowing the elite among us to keep on shooting. I know of an Elmer from Nebraska named Kevin Petrzilka who had notable success using an old Tasco to aim his old Remington 788. Not that I'm shilling for Tasco, but my point is that you don't need top shelf gear to be a successful hunter, though it is quite the opposite if you aim for success when shooting paper at a competitive level.
Or so it seems to me and that brings us back to my previous question of who gives a crap about what other people do, or buy, or use, regardless of the market niche being discussed?
PS - I like Leupold scopes, Warne rings, and Colt Light Rifles.
That has been my contention since day one.....the general hunting public, the average hunter, whatever you call them are perfectly happy with Leupold products and Vortex products for that matter, neither of which Form and others here says are worth a crap, "Specialty" scopes let's call them such as NF, Bushy Elite tacticals, SWFA's, etc that are know to be robust, reliable, and hardy, occupy a relatively small niche. It is obviously growing, but still relatively small. That's how Leupy and Vortex remain $100M companies, they appeal to the masses. I've started buying other stuff for my uses, personally.
Yep.
This was more about Leupold shutting down a rumor than making a better scope.
This doesn’t have anything to do with “Elmers” or “Flat Brimmers” or “diallers” or “Camo PJs”.....
It has everything to do with a company, Leupold, who ALL of us would like to see continue to be successful.
Unfortunately, rather than listen to this small segment of their customers.... they chose to tell us all that their schitt don’t stink.... when there is clearly a consensus, even among the set-and-forget crowd, that the adjustments are not nearly as precise as they should be.
They blamed us, the consumer for: improper focus of the scope, for our rings, for our bases, for our rifles.... then they stated they “don’t care about 100 yard discrepancies... only long range”. Deny, Deflect, Duck, Dodge.... anything but the truth.
They stated that only .0004% of their scopes actually ever needed any type of repair... ever. That seems an astronomically low number based on my experience.... and the experience related by many trusted folks involved in these threads.
They stated that “usually by the third time a scope is sent back for repair, it is repaired correctly”. Seriously.... the THIRD TIME?
They stated that turn around times on repairs was 1 week.... then just days later, when one of us actually needed a scope repaired.... it was at 4 weeks....
Fruddy busted this whole presentation with one scope... showing that it wouldn’t hold zero, and attempting to send it in for the 1-week turnaround.
I’ve got no hate for Leupold.... I still use a couple of their older Mark II/AR scopes... but I hate being lied to, and told I don’t know what I’m talking about, by a corporate dog and pony show.
Nah. Times have changed. When people are shopping for a product, they will Google phrases like "Leupold scope problems", and when page after page of forum results just like the one we're posting on come up, those people may decide to look elsewhere. I do it with just about any product of decent value that I'm looking to purchase, and while obviously I have to take anonymous internet poster's reviews with a grain of salt, forum posts may establish a trend and are one tool in the toolbox to make a purchasing decision. Long way of saying that we, as a group, have an influence on others.
Maybe so. There is probably as much, maybe even more, incorrect information on the internet as there is correct information. Almost everybody who posts a YOUTUBE video has an agenda, so fair and balanced reporting is always a question worth asking.
Hence the part of my statement about looking for trends. If people across the internet are having problems with a product, there's likely a problem with that product.
Google “Leupold Tracking Issues”.... seriously.... try it.
You’ll get numerous threads similar to this from: 24hcf, Rockslide, Long Range Hunting, Sniper’s Hide, AR15, Accurate Shooter, Nosler forum, Optics Talk..... and a veritable cornucopia of other sites too.....
That still may be a “small segment of shooters”.... but it’s a HUGE segment of information... on that specific issue alone.
Is all the information absolutely correct and 100% reliable? Probably not....
Is there a serious preponderance of damaging information? Abso-freaking-lutley!!
Yet.... Leupold still tells us.... and all the rest of those folks... to piss up a flagpole.
Hey.... they’ve got millions of dollars worth of “equipment” that proves their stuff all works. But often.... all it takes is an accurate rifle to prove that they don’t.
Google “Leupold Tracking Issues”.... seriously.... try it.
You’ll get numerous threads similar to this from: 24hcf, Rockslide, Long Range Hunting, Sniper’s Hide, AR15, Accurate Shooter, Nosler forum, Optics Talk..... and a veritable cornucopia of other sites too.....
That still may be a “small segment of shooters”.... but it’s a HUGE segment of information... on that specific issue alone.
Is all the information absolutely correct and 100% reliable? Probably not....
Is there a serious preponderance of damaging information? Abso-freaking-lutley!!
Yet.... Leupold still tells us.... and all the rest of those folks... to piss up a flagpole.
Hey.... they’ve got millions of dollars worth of “equipment” that proves their stuff all works. But often.... all it takes is an accurate rifle to prove that they don’t.
Ya reckon where there's that much "smoke", there could be a flame somewhere...?
And, they use those "million dollars of equipment" on other brands, finding that Leupy is the best...
They must be growing some world class wild weed flowers out there on the left coast...
A non sequitur.... I had to chuckle when I saw a Jim Shockey episode this week where the the client had a scope with LEUPOLD in huge white letters on it. Then I really got a charge when I saw the spotting scope come out that had white letters at least an inch and a half high on it! LOL! And Goofydick Jim with a watchcap on under his Stetson perched on the top of his head. It had a plastic raincover no less! He is quite the fashion plate Ho for the Big L.
I missed the webinar. Trying to parse substance out of the childish spew here, is this summary correct? Doug's original thread here solicited input form the membership. Membership that I think we can all agree represents a broad spectrum of generally knowledgeable shooters. That input identified that when Leupold users twisted knobs, they weren't satisfied with what happened. During the webinar Leupold said the 24 hour membership didn't know what we were talking about and basically said nuh-uh when told they needed to address the issue. Is that a fair summary?
Aren't Elmers the people who spend the majority of the money that keeps shooting sports manufacturers in business?
Individually they probably don't spend a lot of money and they probably don't buy top shelf equipment very often, if ever, but there are so many of them that the money they spend adds up, allowing the elite among us to keep on shooting. I know of an Elmer from Nebraska named Kevin Petrzilka who had notable success using an old Tasco to aim his old Remington 788. Not that I'm shilling for Tasco, but my point is that you don't need top shelf gear to be a successful hunter, though it is quite the opposite if you aim for success when shooting paper at a competitive level.
Or so it seems to me and that brings us back to my previous question of who gives a crap about what other people do, or buy, or use, regardless of the market niche being discussed?
PS - I like Leupold scopes, Warne rings, and Colt Light Rifles.
That has been my contention since day one.....the general hunting public, the average hunter, whatever you call them are perfectly happy with Leupold products
I suspect I represent another substantial segment. Despite adjustments doing all kinds of things they weren't supposed to, I got mine set and am happy enough not to send them back for warranty claims. So I am not perfectly happy, I just accept it.
I have been a fairly good Leopold customer over the years. I don't like being told I am an idiot. I'll never buy another Leupold product. I'll do my best to steer others clear of a company that has contempt for its customers.
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Here are my Leupold products.
The bottom 3 are Redfield Revolution scopes with Accurange reticles. Fantastic scopes that to the best of my memory adjusted pretty close to as they should. They have been set and forget scopes. The glass and weight are best in the price class.
Next up is an old friction Vari X-1. It pretty well behaved as it should, but the Ruger it's on isn't terribly accurate, so I dis have to twist a bit to get it set. Going up from there: a new VX-1, two silver VX-II and two VX-3. Again, weight and glass are price class leading. To the best of my recollection getting these set was an adventure.
My most accurate rifles don't wear Leupold. I twist them on occasion. I'd like for them to wear Leupold because I am big on made in the USA, but I have consumed enough reliable information to have doubts about how they would perform with regular twisting.
Summary: Love the glass, love the weight, love that I have set them and have never had to adjust them, love that they are made in the USA and love that they have been reliable once set. I should add that I don't shoot a whole lot. Don't love chasing bullseyes while dialing them in. It's maddening. Don't love what I have come to believe is a lack of reliability when dialing Leupolds. I do love what I have read about Leupold customer service.
My most recent scope purchases have not been Leupold. Leupold has some work to do. I hope they'll do it, but I have my doubts. I think they have done what Ruger has done in accepting customer returns as a part of their QC process. That's a damn shame too because Leupold is my favorite scope maker and Ruger is my favorite gun maker, but they are both unquestionably taking their customers for granted, and neither seems to give a damn.
Am not much of a customer. Have only bought a little over a dozen of their optics new.
I worked in manufacturing/ engineering and.yeah....with our products and the dealer system......overwhelming % of returns were " no problem found" . But that was vehicle electronics. Not rifle scopes.
Id expect stuff they get sent back to be a bit higher in problems found.
Hell i had two bad in my first eight Leupolds.
One was replaced....one was fixed. But 25%. Over ten years but still a quarter of them bad right out of thw box.
I get manufacturing/engineering....and how people blame atuff unjustly. Worked in a gunshop for a while too.
Lots of people suck at problem solving.
Even so.....one can explain things without blowing smoke up peoples arses. If thats what L tried to do.....shame on them.
Educate or stop discussion of it. No need to spin.
If i count the two Freedom optics bought this yr.....the RDS has the diode holder reflected on the lens....a 1moa dot actually has a 3moa image due to reflected holder around it.
Then theres the edge blur on the 3-9x EFR.
Neither has been sent back yet for correction.
I give any manufacturer one try to fix a problem. Will see how they do.
The most interesting thing is seeing the folks that unapologetically are still defending Leupold after that joke of a presentation. Their attitude and condescending tone was embarrassing. Anyone associated with that presentation should be embarrassed.
Brand loyalty makes lots of folks blind to reality. Elmer Fudds like Redgewell are exactly who they are marketing too...
Sorry, but MuleDeer ‘s posts do not influence my spending.
And you count for a fraction of a percent, so anything that you do is statistically irrelevant
Same as you .any more ground breaking news?
You and I and everybody else on this site EXCEPT John lack the platform to influence the shooting sports universe.
Nah. Times have changed. When people are shopping for a product, they will Google phrases like "Leupold scope problems", and when page after page of forum results just like the one we're posting on come up, those people may decide to look elsewhere. I do it with just about any product of decent value that I'm looking to purchase, and while obviously I have to take anonymous internet poster's reviews with a grain of salt, forum posts may establish a trend and are one tool in the toolbox to make a purchasing decision. Long way of saying that we, as a group, have an influence on others.
Exactly, If I myself key in "Leupold Sucks" a few or a dozen times and say another 100 people on this forum repeatedly say such, it will garner weight to the any search engine's algorithm.
Regardless whatever fame or pull whoever woo-hoo "gunwriter" has.
I missed the webinar. Trying to parse substance out of the childish spew here, is this summary correct? Doug's original thread here solicited input form the membership. Membership that I think we can all agree represents a broad spectrum of generally knowledgeable shooters. That input identified that when Leupold users twisted knobs, they weren't satisfied with what happened. AND EVEN THOSE WHO DON'T OFTEN EXPERIENCE ZERO/POI SHIFTS. During the webinar Leupold said the 24 hour membership didn't know what we were talking about and basically said nuh-uh when told they needed to address the issue. Is that a fair summary?
Added a bit that frequently gets missed when identifying the primary issues people have with Leupold scopes...
I have had around 20 Leupold scopes sent back to Leupold to have the erector system replaced. I had Alan Ranson ( Head Of Leupold Technical Services) on speed dial. I had a couple of scopes sent in, and they said there was no issues found. I sold those scopes. I sent one scope off to Leupold 3 times to be fixed. The 3rd time they go it right. I talked to a tech and he said he would have throw the scope in the garbage. 1 month later I sent another scope in and they replaced the scope. I sent 2 Leupolds in last year and guess what, they replaced, the erector system on them. 2 percent failure ??????? I also to talked to the vice president of Leupold expressing my concerns. Alan said the tech that repairs your scope does matter. He gave me the name of a tech that he wanted my scopes to go too. It was a woman that repaired them after that, and I did not have to send the scope in several times to get fixed. And Alan would have them mount my scopes on their 300 Win Mag and shoot it and they would send me the target, with the scope.
I have a number of Leupold scopes, only a few have gone back with tracking/holding zero issues. Way more than 2%. But I like them. They hell when they well, just don’t be well all the time.
I like the sleek profile, light weight, good glass, nice eyebox (well most models). It’s the long term trust that sorta spoils all those good features. Like a pretty girl, one you can trust MOST of the time. It’s that lingering “what if” that can taint it for ya. But she is pretty and they are good.
I’ve had a bunch of them and liked them for the reasons you mention, but started gravitating away in the late ‘80’s, having to try the so-called Big Three and other scopes. Never did think the friction adjustments were more than “approximate.”
But, got a 6x36 with LRD’s last summer for my lightweight “mountain rifle.” . Used it through the summer after getting it zeroed. Left for elk camp with it 2.5” high at a hundred and packed in a bank vault case for the drive. On the sight-in at camp it was a good 6” high and readjusted again.
My shot came at about a hundred yards so no issue. But in the ensuing 9 months this is becoming my “what if” thought. What if its just not put together that well. I’ve been on a lot of elk hunts where confirming sight-in shots were not possible or allowed.
I have a number of Leupold scopes, only a few have gone back with tracking/holding zero issues. Way more than 2%. But I like them. They hell when they well, just don’t be well all the time.
I like the sleek profile, light weight, good glass, nice eyebox (well most models). It’s the long term trust that sorta spoils all those good features. Like a pretty girl, one you can trust MOST of the time. It’s that lingering “what if” that can taint it for ya. But she is pretty and they are good.
I’ve had a bunch of them and liked them for the reasons you mention, but started gravitating away in the late ‘80’s, having to try the so-called Big Three and other scopes. Never did think the friction adjustments were more than “approximate.”
But, got a 6x36 with LRD’s last summer for my lightweight “mountain rifle.” . Used it through the summer after getting it zeroed. Left for elk camp with it 2.5” high at a hundred and packed in a bank vault case for the drive. On the sight-in at camp it was a good 6” high and readjusted again.
My shot came at about a hundred yards so no issue. But in the ensuing 9 months this is becoming my “what if” thought. What if its just not put together that well. I’ve been on a lot of elk hunts where confirming sight-in shots were not possible or allowed.
Recoil tests are one thing, but traveling to a hunt subjects rifles and optics to a different range of forces and impacts. Think bouncing around in boats, trucks, airplanes, on horses, and in packs. Think, baggage handlers, etc. This was, at least in principle, one of the core attributes of the “drop test”.
This doesn’t have anything to do with “Elmers” or “Flat Brimmers” or “diallers” or “Camo PJs”.....
It has everything to do with a company, Leupold, who ALL of us would like to see continue to be successful.
Unfortunately, rather than listen to this small segment of their customers.... they chose to tell us all that their schitt don’t stink.... when there is clearly a consensus, even among the set-and-forget crowd, that the adjustments are not nearly as precise as they should be.
They blamed us, the consumer for: improper focus of the scope, for our rings, for our bases, for our rifles.... then they stated they “don’t care about 100 yard discrepancies... only long range”. Deny, Deflect, Duck, Dodge.... anything but the truth.
They stated that only .0004% of their scopes actually ever needed any type of repair... ever. That seems an astronomically low number based on my experience.... and the experience related by many trusted folks involved in these threads.
They stated that “usually by the third time a scope is sent back for repair, it is repaired correctly”. Seriously.... the THIRD TIME?
They stated that turn around times on repairs was 1 week.... then just days later, when one of us actually needed a scope repaired.... it was at 4 weeks....
Fruddy busted this whole presentation with one scope... showing that it wouldn’t hold zero, and attempting to send it in for the 1-week turnaround.
I’ve got no hate for Leupold.... I still use a couple of their older Mark II/AR scopes... but I hate being lied to, and told I don’t know what I’m talking about, by a corporate dog and pony show.
Yup.
I was hoping to hear that thy would be willing to do things to "beef up" (they took that one and twisted it out of shape, didn't they?) the erectors and turrets and make them precise and reliable. Instead they pissed on our legs and told us it was raining. I am very disappointed they came at us with the BS. There's much to like about their products, but I don't think I like them enough to be taken for such a naive fool that would buy the snow job.
That show was so inept, 100 yard zero, finger pressures on erector, turn around time, failure rate BS, the guy on the right acting bored and then spinning the scope ala nightgorce you tube video, etc. It may be they knew they couldn't win with all the preloaded dissatisfaction here, that they just went on stage and did a stand up spoof. Essentially flipping the 24CF the bird.
As mentioned previously, I have little problem with using Leupold for my type of hunting and will continue to do so. But it would be hard to do a more non-professional presentation than what was presented. If they were proud of their effort and replies, why was it taken down so quickly?
I didn’t follow it. Whatever their motivation, if the eye-ball perspectives of their intended audience was not good, they furthered the damage. Of course, corporately, they may not care.
I have had around 20 Leupold scopes sent back to Leupold to have the erector system replaced. I had Alan Ranson ( Head Of Leupold Technical Services) on speed dial. I had a couple of scopes sent in, and they said there was no issues found. I sold those scopes. I sent one scope off to Leupold 3 times to be fixed. The 3rd time they go it right. I talked to a tech and he said he would have throw the scope in the garbage. 1 month later I sent another scope in and they replaced the scope. I sent 2 Leupolds in last year and guess what, they replaced, the erector system on them. 2 percent failure ??????? I also to talked to the vice president of Leupold expressing my concerns. Alan said the tech that repairs your scope does matter. He gave me the name of a tech that he wanted my scopes to go too. It was a woman that repaired them after that, and I did not have to send the scope in several times to get fixed. And Alan would have them mount my scopes on their 300 Win Mag and shoot it and they would send me the target, with the scope.
That doesn't inspire confidence. It almost sounds like they have trouble finding competent help in the tech dept and tolerate subpar workmanship.
I still think the possibility exists they may have been saying, "Screw you and the horse you rode in on."
That’s the shame of it all—to leave their audience thinking such, particularly when it comes from someone like Battue.
Not for nothing, but Battue is the guy who won the beautiful custom rifle built by Nathan Chesney of Hillbilly Custom Rifles in memory of BobinNH. The rifle came fitted with a Swarovski Z3 3-9x36, which Battue promptly swapped out for a Leupold...
That doesn't inspire confidence. It almost sounds like they have trouble finding competent help in the tech dept and tolerate subpar workmanship.
Have you ever been to Oregon? probably 90% of the possible employee's cannot pass a drug test.... those two in the video are the cream of the crop
It ain't just Oregon trust me. It's hard to find good/competent help in NY too. About 7 of 10 applicants here can't pass a criminal background check. Beyond that, most non union, non government contract manufacturing jobs expect to find skilled workers/craftsmen for burger flipper pay these days. This is doubly true in the firearms industry and likely in optics too. Ain't likely to keep good, competent, skilled craftsmen for long when they can make more money delivering potato chips.
The only Leupold problem I consistently run into is the locking nut of the ocular bell won't stay tight on many of my Leupolds. Were they to fix that I'd be completely happy.
The only Leupold problem I consistently run into is the locking nut of the ocular bell won't stay tight on many of my Leupolds. Were they to fix that I'd be completely happy.
... probably 90% of the possible employee's cannot pass a drug test.... those two in the video are the cream of the crop
Not just Oregon.
Some years back when Union Tank built a plant in our area, I was talking to a supervisor. He said he had guys who could weld, guys who could read a blueprint, not many who could do both. And not many of them could pee clean in a cup.
The only Leupold problem I consistently run into is the locking nut of the ocular bell won't stay tight on many of my Leupolds. Were they to fix that I'd be completely happy.
Pipe wrench... done deal
Dealer’s choice. Blue electrical tape or blue loctite. congrats. hint. dingleberry itch. Candy cane.
The only Leupold problem I consistently run into is the locking nut of the ocular bell won't stay tight on many of my Leupolds. Were they to fix that I'd be completely happy.
Pipe wrench... done deal
Dealer’s choice. Blue electrical tape or blue loctite. congrats. hint. dingleberry itch. Candy cane.
#thankmel8r
-Big Stick
That blue tape's gotta tighten up everything, groups included...
Yeah, they are. Apparently they're in desperate need too because they're advertising on the radio and they've never done that before in my lifetime around here. 17.77 an hour to start to drive one of those delivery vans or 19.45 an hour to sanitize chip production equipment. Delivery drivers don't even put chips on the shelves. Just drop them off and merchandisers come around after to put them out on the shelves.
The only Leupold problem I consistently run into is the locking nut of the ocular bell won't stay tight on many of my Leupolds. Were they to fix that I'd be completely happy.
Are they the newer dual erector spring models or older ones?
The only Leupold problem I consistently run into is the locking nut of the ocular bell won't stay tight on many of my Leupolds. Were they to fix that I'd be completely happy.
The only Leupold problem I consistently run into is the locking nut of the ocular bell won't stay tight on many of my Leupolds. Were they to fix that I'd be completely happy.
Are they the newer dual erector spring models or older ones?
If you're a first world manufacturer that has/had manufactured quality for so many years, thinking you hung the moon and ceasing to continue to do the things that got you there is a slow, lingering recipe for perhaps short term profits and the long term becomes someone else's problem to figure out.
If your competitors are already doing what you should have done, well your window for correcting that is small.
"Your premium brand had better be delivering something special, or its not going to get the business".
I don't personally like Buffett, but a company might heed a successful old man's advice....which if you read it, is rooted in what the CUSTOMER thinks.
The only Leupold problem I consistently run into is the locking nut of the ocular bell won't stay tight on many of my Leupolds. Were they to fix that I'd be completely happy.
Are they the newer dual erector spring models or older ones?
I really don't know. They range from 1985 to 2018.
The only Leupold problem I consistently run into is the locking nut of the ocular bell won't stay tight on many of my Leupolds. Were they to fix that I'd be completely happy.
Are they the newer dual erector spring models or older ones?
I really don't know. They range from 1985 to 2018.
Some probably are. Actually, I don't know if Leupold puts the dual erectors in all their models, or just some, like VX-3 vs VX-2, etc. But they started when they made the change from VX-III to VX-3.
Same here most my rifles have the ol vxII on them. I had one leupold stop holding zero. Sent it in, leupold called said it was no good and they would send me a new one. That scope they replaced was made in 1971.
The only Leupold problem I consistently run into is the locking nut of the ocular bell won't stay tight on many of my Leupolds. Were they to fix that I'd be completely happy.
Are they the newer dual erector spring models or older ones?
So do you feel going to the dual erector system was a beneficial move or not ?
If I count correctly, I own 18 Leupold scopes. The dates of manufacture of my 18 scopes range from 1977 to 2017. (Wow! That's forty years!) Except for a single 2x handgun scope, all of my Leupold scopes are variables. I did give away a pre-1974 M8-4x before I realized I should have hung onto it.
Except for one SWFA and scopes that came to me on old rifles (bought or inherited), Leupold is the only thing I own, and I don't use the other brands that came to me. My loyalty dates from when they had a much better reputation and following, from the days when it was clear hunters and shooters ran the company. Also from the days when just about any custom rifle wore a scope with a gold ring on it.
Of those 18 scopes, I believe only five were bought new. I do not shy away from a used Leupold as long as the exterior has no dents or lens scratches and I can live with any other dings. I have always relied on the Leupold warranty. Leupold customer service has been very good to me, but I believe I have sent in only one scope, because the ocular would not extend back far enough to focus for me. (The only vision correction I currently need/use is 1.5 "drugstore readers", yet I use most of the focusing adjustment in most Leupold scopes. I don't know what the guys needing 2.5 and 3.0 readers do?) All other customer service from Leupold has been for binoculars and one spotting scope. Again, Leupold customer service has treated me extremely well.
Except for the above mentioned SWFA, which I bought with the intention of dialing, my scope use is "set and forget." My experience has been that sometimes a Leupold will not immediately track unless "thumped" by a shot or my wallet, but I do not recall ever needing to burn a lot of ammo to zero a rifle. When you think about the precision necessary for a scope to dial accurately, it is sort of surprising to me that some scopes not only dial accurately, but continue to do so as opposed to wearing out from all the dialing.
I have never had a Leupold shift zero, but I am admittedly not a high volume shooter, so I wouldn't consider my experience to be a strong data point whatsoever. Being a "set and forget" user, I can live with not dialing accurately, but suddenly shifting zero is not acceptable. Show me even one user group, even Fudds like me (although I don't consider myself a Fudd), who will put up with wandering zero!
I missed the webinar, but it sounds like it was a real goat rope. 24hourcampfire may be a miniscule piece of the market, but a of a good number of the members are knowledgeable users, and we should be a pretty good statistical sample as far as identifying problems. If Leupold truly thinks they don't have any issues at all, that is just stupid.
I think the new styling is fugly. Just frickin' ugly! I only own a few rifles, AR's, SKS, or similar, that I would allow such a fugly scope.
I'll keep my eye on my Leupold scopes as far as holding zero. Were I buying a scope to dial, it wouldn't be a Leupold. That's why I bought the one SWFA.
If I count correctly, I own 18 Leupold scopes. The dates of manufacture of my 18 scopes range from 1977 to 2017. Except for a single 2x handgun scope, all of my Leupold scopes are variables. I did give away a pre-1974 M8-4x before I realized I should have hung onto it.
Except for one SWFA and scopes that came to me on old rifles (bought or inherited), Leupold is the only thing I own, and I don't use the other brands that came to me. My loyalty dates from when they had a much better reputation and following, from the days when it was clear hunters and shooters ran the company. Also from the days when just about any custom rifle wore a scope with a gold ring on it.
Of those 18 scopes, I believe only five were bought new. I do not shy away from a used Leupold as long as the exterior has no dents or lens scratches and I can live with any other dings. I have always relied on the Leupold warranty. Leupold customer service has been very good to me, but I believe I have sent in only one scope, because the ocular would not extend back far enough to focus for me. (The only vision correction I currently need/use is 1.5 "drugstore readers", yet I use most of the focusing adjustment in most Leupold scopes. I don't know what the guys needing 2.5 and 3.0 readers do?) All other customer service from Leupold has been for binoculars and one spotting scope. Again, Leupold customer service has treated me extremely well.
Except for the above mentioned SWFA, which I bought with the intention of dialing, my scope use is "set and forget." My experience has been that sometimes a Leupold will not immediately track unless "thumped" by a shot or my wallet, but I do not recall ever needing to burn a lot of ammo to zero a rifle. When you think about the precision necessary for a scope to dial accurately, it is sort of surprising to me that some scopes not only dial accurately, but continue to do so as opposed to wearing out from all the dialing.
I have never had a Leupold shift zero, but I am admittedly not a high volume shooter, so I wouldn't consider my experience to be a strong data point whatsoever. Being a "set and forget" user, I can live with not dialing accurately, but suddenly shifting zero is not acceptable. Show me even one user group, even Fudds like me (although I don't consider myself a Fudd), who will put up with wandering zero!
I missed the webinar, but it sounds like it was a real goat rope. 24hourcampfire may be a miniscule piece of the market, but a of a good number of the members are knowledgeable users, and we should be a pretty good statistical sample as far as identifying problems. If Leupold truly thinks they don't have any issues at all, that is just stupid.
I think the new styling is fugly. Just frickin' ugly! I only own a few rifles, AR's, SKS, or similar, that I would allow such a fugly scope.
I'll keep my eye on my Leupold scopes as far as holding zero. Were I buying a scope to dial, it wouldn't be a Leupold. That's why I bought the one SWFA.
Started upgrading all my scopes about 10-12 years ago as my 70's era stuff, no Leupolds, while functional, had become clearly clearly inferior to the new stuff. I have changed almost everything over to Leupolds, 2 of their 100th anniversary models, 2 Euros, a couple rimfire models, several FX2 & 3 straight powers, and a couple older used M8's. Several of these have been hunted pretty hard, others "shot hard at the range, still waiting for the first problem, let alone failure. Ditto for the Leup QR systems. Only other brand I own is a couple of Nikons due to their fixed 5" eye relief feature. I continue to be a fan of Leupold products.
The only Leupold problem I consistently run into is the locking nut of the ocular bell won't stay tight on many of my Leupolds. Were they to fix that I'd be completely happy.
Are they the newer dual erector spring models or older ones?
So do you feel going to the dual erector system was a beneficial move or not ?
No idea. In theory, it should be better. Design is one thing. Execution another. And just adding another spring might not be all the design change needed. I should say, it's not like I've looked at and compared them though. Just speculating. I am not an optics guru.
My question was just trying to ferret more details from Youper. Since he hasn't experienced or noticed any issues, I'm curious about details like what model, age, rifle/chambering and whatnot. Does it get shot a lot, etc. Some feel that the older scopes are better, and that quality of production and materials went down. But others claim it's the design. Some probably feel it is both.
Of all my scopes I’ve only had 2 Leupolds go down. A 1.5x5 and a 3.5x10 - they are fine now. I’ve owned even less Vortex and have had both of them go bad- they replaced both with upgrades I’ve got a ton of Mark 4’s, was thinking of selling some of them to fund a Tangent Theta.
Look on the Elk Hunting blog. Overwhelming bubbas use L scopes on open country elk rifles. Not I, said the Little Red Hen....
Is there meaning here?
No, just a line from a children’s story. Might be appropriate for some smart asses on here.
Still makes zero sense? WTF are you trying to say?
What is "the Elk Hunting blog?"
What is "Overwhelming bubbas?"
I lived in Washington for three years but haven't a clue what your message is.
Is there meaning in, "Not I, said the Little Red Hen?" What red hen? Never heard of a talking hen. Who is she talking to? What's it have to do with hunting optics, riflescopes or Leupold? SWFA has a chicken on their scope, is your comment about Texans?
MtBoomer, Let me help you out here. The little red hen is talking to a cat, dog and a duck, about working with regards planting, growing, harvesting, taking to market, baking and finally eating wheat. The little red hen fable has no application to hunting optics, rifle scopes, Leupold, SWFA chickens or Texas.
The only Leupold problem I consistently run into is the locking nut of the ocular bell won't stay tight on many of my Leupolds. Were they to fix that I'd be completely happy.
Are they the newer dual erector spring models or older ones?
So do you feel going to the dual erector system was a beneficial move or not ?
No idea. In theory, it should be better. Design is one thing. Execution another. And just adding another spring might not be all the design change needed. I should say, it's not like I've looked at and compared them though. Just speculating. I am not an optics guru.
My question was just trying to ferret more details from Youper. Since he hasn't experienced or noticed any issues, I'm curious about details like what model, age, rifle/chambering and whatnot. Does it get shot a lot, etc. Some feel that the older scopes are better, and that quality of production and materials went down. But others claim it's the design. Some probably feel it is both.
The three I've shot the most are: A 3-9x40 VX-II from 2005 on a .30-'06 for 2450 rounds, an M8 6x42 from the 90's on a .223 for 2096 rounds, and a FX-3 from 2007 or 2008 on a 8x57 for 1186 rounds.
My question was just trying to ferret more details from Youper. Since he hasn't experienced or noticed any issues, I'm curious about details like what model, age, rifle/chambering and whatnot. Does it get shot a lot, etc. Some feel that the older scopes are better, and that quality of production and materials went down. But others claim it's the design. Some probably feel it is both.
The three I've shot the most are: A 3-9x40 VX-II from 2005 on a .30-'06 for 2450 rounds, an M8 6x42 from the 90's on a .223 for 2096 rounds, and a FX-3 from 2007 or 2008 on a 8x57 for 1186 rounds.
Thanks Youper! Didn't think you were going to chime in on that. Might I indulge in one more question? What bullet weights do you mostly shoot in the .30-06 and 8x57?
So if you use a Leupold you are a bubba? What do you consider a bubba to be?
I think it's anybody who uses any scope other than a NightForce or SWFA , doesn't twist turrets and lives/hunts East of the Mississippi. Only Western natives who hunt West of the Mississipi and twist turrets on their tactica; scopes can be truly skilled, knowledgeable hunters/riflemen.
I see little reason to make generalizations about the whole, because of the few. However, differences in location and terrain, most definitely may make valid reasons for a different opinion on what works.
You easily make do with levers, iron sights and the .30/30. While all may also work out west, they are not the best option for obvious reasons.
Cracks me up.... all these “I’m still going to use Leupold” guys.... saying “I’ve had 20-30 Leupolds... and have only sent 1 or 2 back”.
Well.... let’s be conservative.... and call it 1 in 20.... that’s still 5%..... OR.... 25 TIMES Leupold’s claim of “2 in 1000”!!!
Then.... if only half those scopes “actually needed repair” that would still be 62 TIMES Leupold’s claim of 2%.
Cool... still use Leupolds.... I still use a couple.
But... I’ll always remember those pompous corporate ass-monkeys pissing on my head, and telling me it was raining.
I think there are a number of older guys, like me, who use their scopes "set and forget", and who over the years have acquired a good number of Leupolds. As long as they are holding zero, many of us are not inclined to spend a lot of money replacing with scopes that dial more accurately, because that is a feature we don't need and won't use. In addition, Leupold Customer Service used to be pretty good about fixing any issues that did crop up. (I don't know if they still fix things well. The last two issues I had involved binoculars. One was my fault and I told them so. Both times resulted in replacement.)
But that doesn't mean we are stupid, uninformed, are happy with the "tactical" look of the new models, or appreciate, anymore than you do, the condescending nature of that webinar. (I actually didn't see it, but I'm willing to go with the consensus that is was a goat rope.)
Just because we are not going to rush out and replace scopes that have so far served us well (not fog and hold zero) doesn't mean we are going to rush out and buy more of the new ones. Like I said, when I was in the market for a scope to dial, I listened to the experienced guys here and bought a SWFA.
Point is "I'm still going to use the Leupolds I have that are working well" is not blind brand loyalty. It is just being practical.
I see little reason to make generalizations about the whole, because of the few. However, differences in location and terrain, most definitely may make valid reasons for a different opinion on what works.
You easily make do with levers, iron sights and the .30/30. While all may also work out west, they are not the best option for obvious reasons.
All very true. I certainly don't need equipment that is capable of killing at 600 yards when there is virtually no chance of a shot at that distance where I hunt. I do however, resent the insinuation that I don't shoot enough or can't shoot well enough to know whether my scoped rifles are truly zeoed or retain zero. I am capable of shooting half MOA groups at 200 yards with my scoped rifles and regularly kill woodchucks at distances of 250-350 yards with them in the summer. In other words, my scoped rifles are quite well zeroed and I am well capable of determining that. I have virtually no need or use for any more precision than that here.
MtBoomer, Let me help you out here. The little red hen is talking to a cat, dog and a duck, about working with regards planting, growing, harvesting, taking to market, baking and finally eating wheat. The little red hen fable has no application to hunting optics, rifle scopes, Leupold, SWFA chickens or Texas.
MtBoomer, Let me help you out here. The little red hen is talking to a cat, dog and a duck, about working with regards planting, growing, harvesting, taking to market, baking and finally eating wheat. The little red hen fable has no application to hunting optics, rifle scopes, Leupold, SWFA chickens or Texas.
I hope this helps in some way.
Bubba
Hilarious!
Little Red Hen meets axe then pot...I was sure this was the bedtime story ending. 😎
So if you use a Leupold you are a bubba? What do you consider a bubba to be?
I think it's anybody who uses any scope other than a NightForce or SWFA , doesn't twist turrets and lives/hunts East of the Mississippi. Only Western natives who hunt West of the Mississipi and twist turrets on their tactica; scopes can be truly skilled, knowledgeable hunters/riflemen.
So if you use a Leupold you are a bubba? What do you consider a bubba to be?
I think it's anybody who uses any scope other than a NightForce or SWFA , doesn't twist turrets and lives/hunts East of the Mississippi. Only Western natives who hunt West of the Mississipi and twist turrets on their tactica; scopes can be truly skilled, knowledgeable hunters/riflemen.
I'd guess most here could care less how you hunt, what you use, etc. If you were remotely honest about it you'd realize it's what you say and more importantly how you say it that causes people to dismiss any and everything you say.
So if you use a Leupold you are a bubba? What do you consider a bubba to be?
I think it's anybody who uses any scope other than a NightForce or SWFA , doesn't twist turrets and lives/hunts East of the Mississippi. Only Western natives who hunt West of the Mississipi and twist turrets on their tactica; scopes can be truly skilled, knowledgeable hunters/riflemen.
I'd guess most here could care less how you hunt, what you use, etc. If you were remotely honest about it you'd realize it's what you say and more importantly how you say it that causes people to dismiss any and everything you say.
You know, I'm a member on several other hunting/shooting websites. I don't say the things on those sites that I say here but those other sites do not have the condescending ass holes found here. In other words you tend to get what you give with me.
MtBoomer, Let me help you out here. The little red hen is talking to a cat, dog and a duck, about working with regards planting, growing, harvesting, taking to market, baking and finally eating wheat. The little red hen fable has no application to hunting optics, rifle scopes, Leupold, SWFA chickens or Texas.
I hope this helps in some way.
Bubba
Hilarious!
Little Red Hen meets axe then pot...I was sure this was the bedtime story ending. 😎
Raised by a bachelor logger father. Bedtime stories and fables weren't a significant part of it. Poor little 'Boomer...
So if you use a Leupold you are a bubba? What do you consider a bubba to be?
I think it's anybody who uses any scope other than a NightForce or SWFA , doesn't twist turrets and lives/hunts East of the Mississippi. Only Western natives who hunt West of the Mississipi and twist turrets on their tactica; scopes can be truly skilled, knowledgeable hunters/riflemen.
I'd guess most here could care less how you hunt, what you use, etc. If you were remotely honest about it you'd realize it's what you say and more importantly how you say it that causes people to dismiss any and everything you say.
You know, I'm a member on several other hunting/shooting websites. I don't say the things on those sites that I say here but those other sites do not have the condescending ass holes found here. In other words you tend to get what you give with me.
I’ll play the devil....First, I believe you can and do shoot a hunting rifle well. I’m also fairly certain you can run open sights just fine when your hunting grounds lean towards iron sights over scopes.
Now, here it comes...The BS meter. Without trying to impress me or inform me that I’m your latest morning stool sample...
Why do you try to downgrade the Western type of hunting or equipment enhancements that not only help to take game, but help to do it in a better and more humane way,,,,most of the time - user error does happen sometimes...
We all know the Fire can be a free4all in both wisdom and BS. But, I have noticed, on many threads, you want to project your area of hunting and your understanding of hunting gear to be either more difficult in comparison to the West or the equipment used by western hunting standards as unnecessary, overrated, and those who use them are idiots who can’t hunt very well...
My post history shows an understanding and appreciation that everyone outside of my area of experience may hunt with different tactics, styles and using gear I’m either not familiar with or wouldn’t own, not because it’s schit, but rather it wouldn’t be as helpful for my type of hunting.
I do enjoy educating members who like to put on their hero outfits pretending they know more about my western hunting environment from the comfort of their couch never seeing or hunting in it.
Last thing BH. I’m also sure you have killed table eats with your Tasco, Bushnell, Leupold’s??? And iron sights. But could you run the same gear in my western country and be successful on a yearly basis? Maybe...Possibly...Depending on what you were hunting - timber versus high mountains with steep and deep canyons.
If you lived where some of us do, I’m confident your rig and gear would change to reflect what would help you accomplish your goal of filling meat tags...It’s really that simple...😎
I think the sights on Flaves rifle are far enough apart I may be able to see both of them. Where I've hunted for the last 20 years most people could get by fine with an open sighted 30-30. However I cant see both sights on a 30-30 even with a 24" barrel.
I think beaver 10 make some good points. I would like to go west and also far north to hunt. If I am ever able to do so I would do well to do as they that hunt there do if I want to be successful.
So if you use a Leupold you are a bubba? What do you consider a bubba to be?
I think it's anybody who uses any scope other than a NightForce or SWFA , doesn't twist turrets and lives/hunts East of the Mississippi. Only Western natives who hunt West of the Mississipi and twist turrets on their tactica; scopes can be truly skilled, knowledgeable hunters/riflemen.
I'd guess most here could care less how you hunt, what you use, etc. If you were remotely honest about it you'd realize it's what you say and more importantly how you say it that causes people to dismiss any and everything you say.
You know, I'm a member on several other hunting/shooting websites. I don't say the things on those sites that I say here but those other sites do not have the condescending ass holes found here. In other words you tend to get what you give with me.
I’ll play the devil....First, I believe you can and do shoot a hunting rifle well. I’m also fairly certain you can run open sights just fine when your hunting grounds lean towards iron sights over scopes.
Now, here it comes...The BS meter. Without trying to impress me or inform me that I’m your latest morning stool sample...
Why do you try to downgrade the Western type of hunting or equipment enhancements that not only help to take game, but help to do it in a better and more humane way,,,,most of the time - user error does happen sometimes...
We all know the Fire can be a free4all in both wisdom and BS. But, I have noticed, on many threads, you want to project your area of hunting and your understanding of hunting gear to be either more difficult in comparison to the West or the equipment used by western hunting standards as unnecessary, overrated, and those who use them are idiots who can’t hunt very well...
My post history shows an understanding and appreciation that everyone outside of my area of experience may hunt with different tactics, styles and using gear I’m either not familiar with or wouldn’t own, not because it’s schit, but rather it wouldn’t be as helpful for my type of hunting.
I do enjoy educating members who like to put on their hero outfits pretending they know more about my western hunting environment from the comfort of their couch never seeing or hunting in it.
Last thing BH. I’m also sure you have killed table eats with your Tasco, Bushnell, Leupold’s??? And iron sights. But could you run the same gear in my western country and be successful on a yearly basis? Maybe...Possibly...Depending on what you were hunting - timber versus high mountains with steep and deep canyons.
If you lived where some of us do, I’m confident your rig and gear would change to reflect what would help you accomplish your goal of filling meat tags...It’s really that simple...😎
You do make some good points there. I have been all over the West. Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Washington and Oregon. Never hunted there. It is alot different than here. I do own rifles I'd be confident I could consistently kill game with out to 350-400 yards. Don't know if I'd ever change to a "dialer" or not but I doubt it.
My question was just trying to ferret more details from Youper. Since he hasn't experienced or noticed any issues, I'm curious about details like what model, age, rifle/chambering and whatnot. Does it get shot a lot, etc. Some feel that the older scopes are better, and that quality of production and materials went down. But others claim it's the design. Some probably feel it is both.
The three I've shot the most are: A 3-9x40 VX-II from 2005 on a .30-'06 for 2450 rounds, an M8 6x42 from the 90's on a .223 for 2096 rounds, and a FX-3 from 2007 or 2008 on a 8x57 for 1186 rounds.
Thanks Youper! Didn't think you were going to chime in on that. Might I indulge in one more question? What bullet weights do you mostly shoot in the .30-06 and 8x57?
The vast majority was 150 gr. with both rounds. I hunt with heavier bullets, but shoot lighter and cheaper bullets at the range.
If it matters both scopes are mounted with Leupold DD rings.
Kingston that is too cool.... congratulations, killing a Roosevelt in a non draw unit is a worthy challenge..... then again Beav knows his chit.... well done
Kingston that is too cool.... congratulations, killing a Roosevelt in a non draw unit is a worthy challenge..... then again Beav knows his chit.... well done
I had the time of my life! Except for the part where a 100lbs. of it was on my back, I felt like a kid again!
My question was just trying to ferret more details from Youper. Since he hasn't experienced or noticed any issues, I'm curious about details like what model, age, rifle/chambering and whatnot. Does it get shot a lot, etc. Some feel that the older scopes are better, and that quality of production and materials went down. But others claim it's the design. Some probably feel it is both.
The three I've shot the most are: A 3-9x40 VX-II from 2005 on a .30-'06 for 2450 rounds, an M8 6x42 from the 90's on a .223 for 2096 rounds, and a FX-3 from 2007 or 2008 on a 8x57 for 1186 rounds.
Thanks Youper! Didn't think you were going to chime in on that. Might I indulge in one more question? What bullet weights do you mostly shoot in the .30-06 and 8x57?
The vast majority was 150 gr. with both rounds. I hunt with heavier bullets, but shoot lighter and cheaper bullets at the range.
If it matters both scopes are mounted with Leupold DD rings.
I do however, resent the insinuation that I don't shoot enough or can't shoot well enough to know whether my scoped rifles are truly zeoed or retain zero. I am capable of shooting half MOA groups at 200 yards with my scoped rifles and regularly kill woodchucks at distances of 250-350 yards with them in the summer. In other words, my scoped rifles are quite well zeroed and I am well capable of determining that. I have virtually no need or use for any more precision than that here.
Originally Posted by Blackheart
You know, I'm a member on several other hunting/shooting websites. I don't say the things on those sites that I say here but those other sites do not have the condescending ass holes found here. In other words you tend to get what you give with me.
Well said Blackheart.
I've been accused of not being a real shooter as well since i didn't agree with the self-proclaimed 'experts' on this site about a scope.
I'd take my Leupold on my 270Wby anywhere and be more than comfortable with it. I have targets with 3 shots touching in the X and haven't touched the zero in more than 10 years (yes that is a set and forget rifle/scope). I don't dial it for shots while hunting, i practice and holdover with a plain duplex reticle
I do however, resent the insinuation that I don't shoot enough or can't shoot well enough to know whether my scoped rifles are truly zeoed or retain zero. I am capable of shooting half MOA groups at 200 yards with my scoped rifles and regularly kill woodchucks at distances of 250-350 yards with them in the summer. In other words, my scoped rifles are quite well zeroed and I am well capable of determining that. I have virtually no need or use for any more precision than that here.
Originally Posted by Blackheart
You know, I'm a member on several other hunting/shooting websites. I don't say the things on those sites that I say here but those other sites do not have the condescending ass holes found here. In other words you tend to get what you give with me.
Well said Blackheart.
I've been accused of not being a real shooter as well since i didn't agree with the self-proclaimed 'experts' on this site about a scope.
I'd take my Leupold on my 270Wby anywhere and be more than comfortable with it. I have targets with 3 shots touching in the X and haven't touched the zero in more than 10 years (yes that is a set and forget rifle/scope). I don't dial it for shots while hunting, i practice and holdover with a plain duplex reticle
Do you believe you would be as "effective " on a shot beyond your holdover distance as a guy with a scope that dials accurately?
i use mostly 2 brand of scopes Leupold and Nightforce ,yes for target shooting these days i may use Nightforce scopes and even on my one deer rifle. but i own around 20 Leupold scopes many are on some very fine rifles and all shoot well, but this week i finally was able to purchased a Browning BLR takedown s.s. and what i consider a handy type survival rifle in a common big enough cartridge 30-06. now on this BLR rifle this will be in my truck all huntin seasons from now on ,camping and canoe trips too ,this BLR will have just a trusted old common 3x9 LEUPOLD.
I do however, resent the insinuation that I don't shoot enough or can't shoot well enough to know whether my scoped rifles are truly zeoed or retain zero. I am capable of shooting half MOA groups at 200 yards with my scoped rifles and regularly kill woodchucks at distances of 250-350 yards with them in the summer. In other words, my scoped rifles are quite well zeroed and I am well capable of determining that. I have virtually no need or use for any more precision than that here.
Originally Posted by Blackheart
You know, I'm a member on several other hunting/shooting websites. I don't say the things on those sites that I say here but those other sites do not have the condescending ass holes found here. In other words you tend to get what you give with me.
Well said Blackheart.
I've been accused of not being a real shooter as well since i didn't agree with the self-proclaimed 'experts' on this site about a scope.
I'd take my Leupold on my 270Wby anywhere and be more than comfortable with it. I have targets with 3 shots touching in the X and haven't touched the zero in more than 10 years (yes that is a set and forget rifle/scope). I don't dial it for shots while hunting, i practice and holdover with a plain duplex reticle
Do you believe you would be as "effective " on a shot beyond your holdover distance as a guy with a scope that dials accurately?
Yes, but i hold myself to a certain distance while hunting. Don't always have time to dial while hunting.
What us Leupold uses must acknowledge is that those on the other side play a different game. Using holdover, even tho it works well for 300 and closer, will never be as precise as dialing and holding dead on. No matter what the range. Now, stretch it out to 500 plus and holdover becomes a nebulous guess.
I’ve shot a couple Deer over 300 and was confident in being able to do so along with having confidence In the Leupold being used. I found little joy in it for my own personal reasons, however that is for another discussion.
We can shoot a lot and be excellent riflemen within the parameters of our equipment. Any who think different is not being realistic. However, when some are stretching the distance, then holdover fails miserably and three touching at 100 is only a start, and one best be using the most accurate and repeatable equipment. These guys shoot more than a little also, and others need to acknowledge they use the best equipment for the game they play. They need to acknowledge that we are handicapped little if any, by using using Leupold for the game we play.
Addition: I’m sure if they don’t have time to dial past holdover distance, they pass on the shot until they do. We are not the only ones who’d have to decide, go, no go.
I'd take my Leupold on my 270Wby anywhere and be more than comfortable with it. I have targets with 3 shots touching in the X and haven't touched the zero in more than 10 years (yes that is a set and forget rifle/scope). I don't dial it for shots while hunting, i practice and holdover with a plain duplex reticle
I do however, resent the insinuation that I don't shoot enough or can't shoot well enough to know whether my scoped rifles are truly zeoed or retain zero. I am capable of shooting half MOA groups at 200 yards with my scoped rifles and regularly kill woodchucks at distances of 250-350 yards with them in the summer. In other words, my scoped rifles are quite well zeroed and I am well capable of determining that. I have virtually no need or use for any more precision than that here.
Originally Posted by Blackheart
You know, I'm a member on several other hunting/shooting websites. I don't say the things on those sites that I say here but those other sites do not have the condescending ass holes found here. In other words you tend to get what you give with me.
Well said Blackheart.
I've been accused of not being a real shooter as well since i didn't agree with the self-proclaimed 'experts' on this site about a scope.
I'd take my Leupold on my 270Wby anywhere and be more than comfortable with it. I have targets with 3 shots touching in the X and haven't touched the zero in more than 10 years (yes that is a set and forget rifle/scope). I don't dial it for shots while hunting, i practice and holdover with a plain duplex reticle
If a rifle is capable of touching 3 shots at 100 yards, and it does so consistently with the same POI for the group center, then obviously the scope is holding zero just fine, and is not shifting. That scope would be considered one of the good ones. For now. Round count kills.
Ever since I moved away from using Leupolds and similarly-built scopes, if I am troubleshooting accuracy issues, “swap scope for one that is known to be reliable” is no longer the Number 1 most likely solution on my troubleshooting list...
I'd take my Leupold on my 270Wby anywhere and be more than comfortable with it. I have targets with 3 shots touching in the X and haven't touched the zero in more than 10 years (yes that is a set and forget rifle/scope). I don't dial it for shots while hunting, i practice and holdover with a plain duplex reticle
I’d be knocking on wood.
Practice and confidence. And it's in a synthetic stock, so.....
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
If a rifle is capable of touching 3 shots at 100 yards, and it does so consistently with the same POI for the group center, then obviously the scope is holding zero just fine, and is not shifting. That scope would be considered one of the good ones. For now. Round count kills...
Round count on that rifle... probably close to a 1000 now
I'd take my Leupold on my 270Wby anywhere and be more than comfortable with it. I have targets with 3 shots touching in the X and haven't touched the zero in more than 10 years (yes that is a set and forget rifle/scope). I don't dial it for shots while hunting, i practice and holdover with a plain duplex reticle
I’d be knocking on wood.
Practice and confidence. And it's in a synthetic stock, so.....
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
If a rifle is capable of touching 3 shots at 100 yards, and it does so consistently with the same POI for the group center, then obviously the scope is holding zero just fine, and is not shifting. That scope would be considered one of the good ones. For now. Round count kills...
Round count on that rifle... probably close to a 1000 now
So, you would have confidence with that combination at 500 or more and using holdover?
I'd take my Leupold on my 270Wby anywhere and be more than comfortable with it. I have targets with 3 shots touching in the X and haven't touched the zero in more than 10 years (yes that is a set and forget rifle/scope). I don't dial it for shots while hunting, i practice and holdover with a plain duplex reticle
I’d be knocking on wood.
Practice and confidence. And it's in a synthetic stock, so.....
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
If a rifle is capable of touching 3 shots at 100 yards, and it does so consistently with the same POI for the group center, then obviously the scope is holding zero just fine, and is not shifting. That scope would be considered one of the good ones. For now. Round count kills...
Round count on that rifle... probably close to a 1000 now
I'd take my Leupold on my 270Wby anywhere and be more than comfortable with it. I have targets with 3 shots touching in the X and haven't touched the zero in more than 10 years (yes that is a set and forget rifle/scope). I don't dial it for shots while hunting, i practice and holdover with a plain duplex reticle
I’d be knocking on wood.
Three shots touching the X ...... ya I always sight dead on at 100yd then accurately use holdovers past 500yd ....... he kinda proves the point ...... lack of experience and all
I'd take my Leupold on my 270Wby anywhere and be more than comfortable with it. I have targets with 3 shots touching in the X and haven't touched the zero in more than 10 years (yes that is a set and forget rifle/scope). I don't dial it for shots while hunting, i practice and holdover with a plain duplex reticle
I’d be knocking on wood.
Three shots touching the X ...... ya I always sight dead on at 100yd then accurately use holdovers past 500yd ....... he kinda proves the point ...... lack of experience and all
;
And you prove the point of the when one ASSumes something. lack of common sense.
where did i say "past 500yd"? what lack of experience and all you talking about? if one practices and knows his rifle and capabilities, that, to me, IS experience.
I'd take my Leupold on my 270Wby anywhere and be more than comfortable with it. I have targets with 3 shots touching in the X and haven't touched the zero in more than 10 years (yes that is a set and forget rifle/scope). I don't dial it for shots while hunting, i practice and holdover with a plain duplex reticle
I’d be knocking on wood.
Practice and confidence. And it's in a synthetic stock, so.....
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
If a rifle is capable of touching 3 shots at 100 yards, and it does so consistently with the same POI for the group center, then obviously the scope is holding zero just fine, and is not shifting. That scope would be considered one of the good ones. For now. Round count kills...
Round count on that rifle... probably close to a 1000 now
So, you would have confidence with that combination at 500 or more and using holdover?
Yes, as i said in an earlier post, but you probably didn't read that since it doesn't go along with all of the assumptions happening. I limit my shots when i do that. I'm an ethical hunter, i don't shoot beyond what i know i can do.
If a rifle is capable of touching 3 shots at 100 yards, and it does so consistently with the same POI for the group center, then obviously the scope is holding zero just fine, and is not shifting. That scope would be considered one of the good ones. For now. Round count kills...
Round count on that rifle... probably close to a 1000 now
I'm not questioning your shooting ability or your experience, but I'd be starting to keep a close eye on that scope (and that barrel) right about now...
If a rifle is capable of touching 3 shots at 100 yards, and it does so consistently with the same POI for the group center, then obviously the scope is holding zero just fine, and is not shifting. That scope would be considered one of the good ones. For now. Round count kills...
Round count on that rifle... probably close to a 1000 now
I'm not questioning your shooting ability or your experience, but I'd be starting to keep a close eye on that scope (and that barrel) right about now...
Scope and barrel are fine still. Just had it out last week, first shot from cold barrel, hit the bulls-eye and hit the 1" circle at 200 as well on subsequent shots that day
I'd take my Leupold on my 270Wby anywhere and be more than comfortable with it. I have targets with 3 shots touching in the X and haven't touched the zero in more than 10 years (yes that is a set and forget rifle/scope). I don't dial it for shots while hunting, i practice and holdover with a plain duplex reticle
I’d be knocking on wood.
Practice and confidence. And it's in a synthetic stock, so.....
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
If a rifle is capable of touching 3 shots at 100 yards, and it does so consistently with the same POI for the group center, then obviously the scope is holding zero just fine, and is not shifting. That scope would be considered one of the good ones. For now. Round count kills...
Round count on that rifle... probably close to a 1000 now
So, you would have confidence with that combination at 500 or more and using holdover?
Yes, as i said in an earlier post, but you probably didn't read that since it doesn't go along with all of the assumptions happening. I limit my shots when i do that. I'm an ethical hunter, i don't shoot beyond what i know i can do.
I must admit I am a little confused...... so yes holdover at 500yds is effective....... and you are capable with that method? or not?
Oh and another question.... lets say you want to shoot a target at 630 yds how much do you holdover? also how do you replicate that hold over on the next shot?
Since we all know Leupold is following us here, let me ask them how they feel like the Livestream worked out for them. Big win for the golden ring right?
I must admit I am a little confused...... so yes holdover at 500yds is effective....... and you are capable with that method? or not?
Simple English confuses you? As I stated, i use holdovers. if i wasn't capable, why would i use that method? so in simple English (and I'll type slowly so you can keep up).... Yes I am capable of this method.
Originally Posted by irfubar
Oh and another question.... lets say you want to shoot a target at 630 yds how much do you holdover? also how do you replicate that hold over on the next shot?
Again, i limit myself to a certain distance. I would not attempt a shot at 630yds. I'd get closer to the target.
I must admit I am a little confused...... so yes holdover at 500yds is effective....... and you are capable with that method? or not?
Simple English confuses you? As I stated, i use holdovers. if i wasn't capable, why would i use that method? so in simple English (and I'll type slowly so you can keep up).... Yes I am capable of this method.
Originally Posted by irfubar
Oh and another question.... lets say you want to shoot a target at 630 yds how much do you holdover? also how do you replicate that hold over on the next shot?
Again, i limit myself to a certain distance. I would not attempt a shot at 630yds. I'd get closer to the target.
I hope you can read and comprehend that now.
First you accuse me of making assumptions..... so in order to avoid that, I ask questions and that makes you angry.... hmmm So I will go back to assumptions, you assume every shooter is shooting at a game animal.... how about a varmint shooter? a target shooter or maybe a competitor? assumptions are a bitch huh?
Has it occurred to you people may need to make a 630yd shot? of course not Has it occurred to you that others use their equipment different than you do? of course not. Has it occurred to you that others have far more skill and capability than you? of course not. Has it occurred to you that your choice of equipment will not accomplish what others want? of course not. Has it occurred to you your skill level may be low? of course not Has it occurred to you that you have a low I.Q. ? of course not Has it occurred to you you contradict yourself? of course not Has it occurred to you that dialing is more precise than your hold overs will ever be? of course not
You like to preach ethics yet your aiming method is inferior on long range shots...... hmmm a little hypocrisy? You are the perfect Leupold customer.... too stupid to know what you don't know...
I think I have lost a few I.Q. points just reading your ignorant drivel.... and I can't afford that.... I am beginning to understand how Big Stick became a toxic poster
I must admit I am a little confused...... so yes holdover at 500yds is effective....... and you are capable with that method? or not?
Simple English confuses you? As I stated, i use holdovers. if i wasn't capable, why would i use that method? so in simple English (and I'll type slowly so you can keep up).... Yes I am capable of this method.
Originally Posted by irfubar
Oh and another question.... lets say you want to shoot a target at 630 yds how much do you holdover? also how do you replicate that hold over on the next shot?
Again, i limit myself to a certain distance. I would not attempt a shot at 630yds. I'd get closer to the target.
I hope you can read and comprehend that now.
First you accuse me of making assumptions..... so in order to avoid that, I ask questions and that makes you angry.... hmmm So I will go back to assumptions, you assume every shooter is shooting at a game animal.... how about a varmint shooter? a target shooter or maybe a competitor? assumptions are a bitch huh?
Has it occurred to you people may need to make a 630yd shot? of course not Has it occurred to you that others use their equipment different than you do? of course not. Has it occurred to you that others have far more skill and capability than you? of course not. Has it occurred to you that your choice of equipment will not accomplish what others want? of course not. Has it occurred to you your skill level may be low? of course not Has it occurred to you that you have a low I.Q. ? of course not Has it occurred to you you contradict yourself? of course not Has it occurred to you that dialing is more precise than your hold overs will ever be? of course not
You like to preach ethics yet your aiming method is inferior on long range shots...... hmmm a little hypocrisy? You are the perfect Leupold customer.... too stupid to know what you don't know...
I think I have lost a few I.Q. points just reading your ignorant drivel.... and I can't afford that.... I am beginning to understand how Big Stick became a toxic poster
I never got angry... there you go assuming. you assumed i shot past 500yds using holdover. I don't!
And no, i didn't assume every shooter is shooting at a game animal. I was telling MY experiences. There's a big difference
People may... that's on them..... not me, i choose not to Absolutely!!!! and they're more than welcome to use whatever they want. As someone said... different strokes for different folks Absolutely... i never claimed to be the best shooter. I'll be the first to admit it Absolutely... again, see two points up. Maybe it is... maybe it isn't. I only compare myself to myself. I have no desire to compare myself to others. I'm sure my IQ is much much higher than yours Where did i contradict myself? Maybe.... if that works for you... great. But i choose not to in some situations
Yes i am an ethical hunter. I have yet to lose an animal due to a bad shot. You made assumptions on what distance i shoot using holdovers. I never mentioned it. You ASSumed. You even know the definition of hypocrisy? Look it up Stupid! look in the mirror, you'll see stupid. Yes, i am a Leupold customer, not ashamed of it either.
Has it occurred to you that not everyone has to agree with you!!!! of course not.... That there are multiple ways to do things. Who granted you the title of EXPERT and we all must do as you do?
Maybe you should spend more time outside shooting then indoors typing nonsense and trying to make everyone do what you think is right
Since we all know Leupold is following us here, let me ask them how they feel like the Livestream worked out for them. Big win for the golden ring right?
They've probably quit watching by now...
It was sort of a train wreck. After the fact, it's "move on along, nothing to see here"...
They came here to change our opinions, don't think we changed theirs..
Oh i see you're editing your posts now. good idea.
Mark Twain quote:
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
You have that tied up with experience. Good luck in life.
I have to edit often because I am a terrible typer ...... and Kingston get's after me for grammatical errors. Thank you for your concern regarding my luck in life..... bit it is unnecessary I seem to manage fine..... I would like to get off my couch and shoot a gun though... someday... hahahahahaha Oh and I CAN hit a target at 630yds and 718 yds etc.... over and over again.... hahahahaha
If a rifle is capable of touching 3 shots at 100 yards, and it does so consistently with the same POI for the group center, then obviously the scope is holding zero just fine, and is not shifting. That scope would be considered one of the good ones. For now. Round count kills...
Round count on that rifle... probably close to a 1000 now
I'm not questioning your shooting ability or your experience, but I'd be starting to keep a close eye on that scope (and that barrel) right about now...
Scope and barrel are fine still. Just had it out last week, first shot from cold barrel, hit the bulls-eye and hit the 1" circle at 200 as well on subsequent shots that day
There are two issues that need to be clearly identified in these discussions:
- "Good enough" for me and my application may not be for someone else. For the guy that shoots moose at 100 yards or less, a 0.5-1 MOA random POI shift goes unnoticed and is not a problem. For the next guy shooting a 6BR that is capable of shooting in the 0.2's, a 0.5 MOA random reticle shift is unacceptable.
- The probability/likelihood of a scope starting to exhibit new POI shift behaviours varies with different brands and models of scopes. It's probably safe to say that the average NF scope can go many thousands more rounds before random POI shift starts to occur than the average Leupold. So just because something has behaved well for a few hundred, or even a thousand rounds, that doesn't mean it will continue to do so.
While that assessment may meet your criteria when you say that the "scope and barrel are fine", it really doesn't say all that much about the zero retention/POI shift behaviour of the scope, nor the condition of the barrel. Rather than a single shot at 100 and another at 200, shooting groups and measuring velocity can indicate the condition of the barrel, and repeated, consistently-sized and centered 3-shot groups can show how the scope is holding up. No offense intended, just passing on my observations after dealing with many frustrating scope failures, while recognizing that people's scope requirements vary.
i use mostly 2 brand of scopes Leupold and Nightforce ,yes for target shooting these days i may use Nightforce scopes and even on my one deer rifle. but i own around 20 Leupold scopes many are on some very fine rifles and all shoot well, but this week i finally was able to purchased a Browning BLR takedown s.s. and what i consider a handy type survival rifle in a common big enough cartridge 30-06. now on this BLR rifle this will be in my truck all huntin seasons from now on ,camping and canoe trips too ,this BLR will have just a trusted old common 3x9 LEUPOLD.
Do you know Tom 264? you two could be best buds......
Word on the street is someone has been seen out shopping for a new head...Pretty Kewl....😬😎
Hey Beav, I heard Tom has been accepted into an experimental head transplant program... first ever.... Very little risk for Tom... not like he could get brain damage.....
Give it up. There is a small claque of "wannabe snipers" with delusions of grandeur and elitist aspirations in this site that may be shills for other scope companies. Their steel banging methodology simply does not generalize to ethical hunting. Shooting at live animals at extended ranges is good for their feeble egos but not ethical hunting. I doubt these Kestrel, bipod, sandbag, stick idiots have a clue about real hunting. In their eyes, hitting an animal at extended ranges is more important than potentially wounding/losing one. I doubt very much they care about foot pounds of energy at target when shooting big game...... There is a duality they do not comprehend. Ethical hunting means delivering the necessary foot pounds of energy at vital areas to ensure a "clean kill." Shooting elk at 1,400 yards with one's .338 Lapua is for CRETINS. I doubt they walk in the woods carrying a .375 Cheytac to ensure clean kills at extended ranges.
Leupold scopes work for most hunters at customary hunting ranges. One does not need to crank on a door knob and use a bipod to cleanly take most big game animals. I wonder if these guys work for NF or SWFA?
IceCunt..... elevating the level of stupidity to unethical ranges.
Holding zero, and having accurate adjustments is requisite for all ethical hunting.... range has nothing to do with it.
Leupold lied to us all.... straight to our faces.... anyone who can’t see that, is a fuggin’ moron.
Right on Dog......
Ethical hunters do all they can to make sure of a clean and humane kill..... we obsess over bullets, loads, barrels and yes scopes that work properly...... Doesn't matter 50 yds or 450 yds . Although things get much more critical as range increases..... That's why Blackheart is fine with iron sights on his 30-30, yet in wide open country with shots averaging 300yds an inch or two off at 100yd is huge and will result in a wounded animal.
Ethical hunting means delivering the necessary foot pounds of energy at vital areas to ensure a "clean kill."
Precisely. One must ensure that exactly 1548.9 ft-lbs of energy are delivered to the shoulder, 1087.0 to the lungs, 1213.4 to the heart, and 756.2 to the head. Any less than this, and the animal simply will not die. Any more, and the entire carcass will rupture due to hydrostatic shock, wasting an excess amount of meat...
Another member of the "squad" shows up. Your squadmates make AOC's squad look disloyal. Insecure people need peer acceptance and group membership to function. Work on it. You may eventually be free to make individual judgements.....work on your sarcasm, it is pretty juvenile....
I started hunting as a young boy. When I bought my first big-game rifle, I had been convinced that I needed a large magnum as an all-around hunting rifle. The more I killed and witnessed the killing of critters in the ensuing years, the less important impact energy became. I started wondering why I was putting up with the powder consumption, noise, and recoil from the bigger rifles, and started buying and using smaller rifles to hunt with. Animals still died just the same. As long as a bullet of reasonable size has enough velocity (and corresponding kinetic energy) to expand on impact, and to then reach the vitals, it has enough "foot pounds of energy" to make a clean kill. This is much less than the arbitrary number so many people of several decades ago used to preach.
Perhaps you should work on your kill count, if you still think you need a certain amount of impact energy (let me guess, 1000 ft-lbs for deer and 1500 for elk?) to ensure a clean kill.
Oh i see you're editing your posts now. good idea.
Mark Twain quote:
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
You have that tied up with experience. Good luck in life.
I have to edit often because I am a terrible typer ...... and Kingston get's after me for grammatical errors. Thank you for your concern regarding my luck in life..... bit it is unnecessary I seem to manage fine..... I would like to get off my couch and shoot a gun though... someday... hahahahahaha Oh and I CAN hit a target at 630yds and 718 yds etc.... over and over again.... hahahahaha
Different skillsets for different hunting conditions. I can throw an appe in the air and bust it 9 out of 10 with my iron sighted .30-30. Sometimes the ability to hit fast moving game at close range is important to my success where I hunt. Can you do that with your rig ? I can hit a 3" diameter bull offhand at 75 yards consistently with any of my deer rifles, iron sights or scope. That skillset is also important to my success and I practice it diligently. Can you best that with your rig ? Different skillsets for different conditions.
I started hunting as a young boy. When I bought my first big-game rifle, I had been convinced that I needed a large magnum as an all-around hunting rifle. The more I killed and witnessed the killing of critters in the ensuing years, the less important impact energy became. I started wondering why I was putting up with the powder consumption, noise, and recoil from the bigger rifles, and started buying and using smaller rifles to hunt with. Animals still died just the same. As long as a bullet of reasonable size has enough velocity (and corresponding kinetic energy) to expand on impact, and to then reach the vitals, it has enough "foot pounds of energy" to make a clean kill. This is much less than the arbitrary number so many people of several decades ago used to preach.
Perhaps you should work on your kill count, if you still think you need a certain amount of impact energy (let me guess, 1000 ft-lbs for deer and 1500 for elk?) to ensure a clean kill.
I knew it didn't take very darn many foot pounds to kill a deer right from the first. It was easy to ascertain since my first deer was killed instantly with a .22LR to the head. After that I killed several more with .22LR ,.22WMR and 5mm Remington magnum rimfire. Several of those shot with the WMR and 5mm were lung shot and none went more than 80 yards before expiring. It doesn't take much and few hunters know just how little will do the trick.
Hmmm....first of all, is that caliber legal in the state you are hunting for taking big game? I think you need to read the regs. Unless, of course, you have no clue about specific caliber requirements in different states/provinces. Second of all, define deer. Axis deer? Red deer? Northern whitetail? Key west deer? Mule deer in Mexico? Mule deer in Colorado....be specific....Third of all, what conditions. Animal is alerted and running full tilt? Animal is unaware, rested? Conditions are important. Fourth of all, bullet placement. Fifth of all, what bullet type are you using?
I am sorry if this is too complicated your you and your "squad" mates to grasp.....maybe, I need to break it down into manageable chunks?
I started hunting as a young boy. When I bought my first big-game rifle, I had been convinced that I needed a large magnum as an all-around hunting rifle. The more I killed and witnessed the killing of critters in the ensuing years, the less important impact energy became. I started wondering why I was putting up with the powder consumption, noise, and recoil from the bigger rifles, and started buying and using smaller rifles to hunt with. Animals still died just the same. As long as a bullet of reasonable size has enough velocity (and corresponding kinetic energy) to expand on impact, and to then reach the vitals, it has enough "foot pounds of energy" to make a clean kill. This is much less than the arbitrary number so many people of several decades ago used to preach.
Perhaps you should work on your kill count, if you still think you need a certain amount of impact energy (let me guess, 1000 ft-lbs for deer and 1500 for elk?) to ensure a clean kill.
I knew it didn't take very darn many foot pounds to kill a deer right from the first. It was easy to ascertain since my first deer was killed instantly with a .22LR to the head.
Hmmm....first of all, is that caliber legal in the state you are hunting for taking big game? I think you need to read the regs. Unless, of course, you have no clue about specific caliber requirements in different states/provinces. Second of all, define deer. Axis deer? Red deer? Northern whitetail? Key west deer? Mule deer in Mexico? Mule deer in Colorado....be specific....Third of all, what conditions. Animal is alerted and running full tilt? Animal is unaware, rested? Conditions are important. Fourth of all, bullet placement. Fifth of all, what bullet type are you using?
I am sorry if this is too complicated your you and your "squad" mates to grasp.....maybe, I need to break it down into manageable chunks?
Different skillsets for different hunting conditions. I can throw an appe in the air and bust it 9 out of 10 with my iron sighted .30-30. Sometimes the ability to hit fast moving game at close range is important to my success where I hunt. Can you do that with your rig ? I can hit a 3" diameter bull offhand at 75 yards consistently with any of my deer rifles, iron sights or scope. That skillset is also important to my success and I practice it diligently. Can you best that with your rig ? Different skillsets for different conditions.
Since we all know Leupold is following us here, let me ask them how they feel like the Livestream worked out for them. Big win for the golden ring right?
I think it was Lao Tzu who said something like, “Don’t distract your enemy while they are busy defeating themselves.”
Different skillsets for different hunting conditions. I can throw an appe in the air and bust it 9 out of 10 with my iron sighted .30-30. Sometimes the ability to hit fast moving game at close range is important to my success where I hunt. Can you do that with your rig ? I can hit a 3" diameter bull offhand at 75 yards consistently with any of my deer rifles, iron sights or scope. That skillset is also important to my success and I practice it diligently. Can you best that with your rig ? Different skillsets for different conditions.
Different skillsets for different hunting conditions. I can throw an appe in the air and bust it 9 out of 10 with my iron sighted .30-30. Sometimes the ability to hit fast moving game at close range is important to my success where I hunt. Can you do that with your rig ? I can hit a 3" diameter bull offhand at 75 yards consistently with any of my deer rifles, iron sights or scope. That skillset is also important to my success and I practice it diligently. Can you best that with your rig ? Different skillsets for different conditions.
Solid gold right there. Freaking Quigley.........
I guess you just ain't all you think you are with a rifle ? I had the highest offhand average in the league and posted the highest offhand and kneeling scores at the state championship matches when I shot competitively. Some folks can shoot. Some need a rest of some sort.
Different skillsets for different hunting conditions. I can throw an appe in the air and bust it 9 out of 10 with my iron sighted .30-30. Sometimes the ability to hit fast moving game at close range is important to my success where I hunt. Can you do that with your rig ? I can hit a 3" diameter bull offhand at 75 yards consistently with any of my deer rifles, iron sights or scope. That skillset is also important to my success and I practice it diligently. Can you best that with your rig ? Different skillsets for different conditions.
Jordan, There’s several Variables in shooting, no pun here,,,,And equipment is just one and a main one, with several parts and pieces broken down to determine an accurate shooting paradigm...
Each piece of equipment needs to do its job in support of the other...Receiver, bases, rings, scope, rifle, ammo, and the hunter/shooter who has an expectation, either based on reality, fantasy of his abilities, or “Marketing Message” that his equipment is functioning properly each time the trigger is pulled.
Most potential issues can be mitigated early on by using precision pieces and adherence to proper installation practices...
Leupold went straight to the soft underbelly of problems that can be misidentified as scope issues - Apparatus, rifle, installation, ammo, Hunter/shooter all potential weak links in the paradigm. Except....
It’s fairly simple to run down each piece of equipment to determine if it’s the cause of shooting issues. It does eat up time and it’s frustrating as hell having to do it...See Fred’s post on his VX6 Scope failure as a perfect example of running to ground a problem.
Above being said. It was extremely insulting of Leupold to only address the easiest pieces of the shooting puzzle; apparatus and shooter error as the culprit for RTZ, POI Shifts, and Zero Retention problems over their scopes.
I am certain, being employees of Leupold and as such a “CLM” or “Career Limiting Move” would have been witnessed by Fire members if either Dane or Flat Brimmer would have stated, Leupold has a 20-25% failure rate on new scopes because of inferior internals.
I still have smoke coming outta my azz from their corporate blow job....😎
Different skillsets for different hunting conditions. I can throw an appe in the air and bust it 9 out of 10 with my iron sighted .30-30. Sometimes the ability to hit fast moving game at close range is important to my success where I hunt. Can you do that with your rig ? I can hit a 3" diameter bull offhand at 75 yards consistently with any of my deer rifles, iron sights or scope. That skillset is also important to my success and I practice it diligently. Can you best that with your rig ? Different skillsets for different conditions.
Solid gold right there. Freaking Quigley.........
Sarcasm noted
I KNEW you sucked. At everything.
All Bow down to the King of the Adirondacks. Wild Bill Hickock and Carlos Hathcock all rolled up into one. How do you have a house big enough to hold all these medals and trophy racks? You are simply amazing. One of these days when I visit my Buddy in NY I will come up and see you and get your autograph oh Larry Benoit of the NY Woods.
Oh i see you're editing your posts now. good idea.
Mark Twain quote:
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
You have that tied up with experience. Good luck in life.
I have to edit often because I am a terrible typer ...... and Kingston get's after me for grammatical errors. Thank you for your concern regarding my luck in life..... bit it is unnecessary I seem to manage fine..... I would like to get off my couch and shoot a gun though... someday... hahahahahaha Oh and I CAN hit a target at 630yds and 718 yds etc.... over and over again.... hahahahaha
Different skillsets for different hunting conditions. I can throw an appe in the air and bust it 9 out of 10 with my iron sighted .30-30. Sometimes the ability to hit fast moving game at close range is important to my success where I hunt. Can you do that with your rig ? I can hit a 3" diameter bull offhand at 75 yards consistently with any of my deer rifles, iron sights or scope. That skillset is also important to my success and I practice it diligently. Can you best that with your rig ? Different skillsets for different conditions.
Blacheart,
I am not a long range hunter, I do enjoy long range shooting, gongs mostly, I will snipe a long range varmint though. I have everything from an open sighted 30-30 to long range rifles with dialable scopes.
Around my current home the forest is relatively thick and the ranges tend to be short, so a low power scope isn't necessarily a handicap and a fine tuned rifle unnecessary, most of the time... long range opportunities do exist though as I am in the mountains.
But I do travel and hunt wide open country and the shots do average 300yds and find all the consistent accuracy I can get important.
As far as hitting a 3" bull offhand at 75 yds. yes not always of course. I have a 3" gong that is 50yds from my porch and I hit it more times than not with my Rem 581 22lr open sight, I have found I hit it much more often with my CZ 452 with a Weaver 4X though. I find no handicap at close range with a scope.
That guy is a fu cking idiot. We don't all see eye to eye on chit, but most of up probably agree that icedouche is a Leupold rep trying to spew chit on others that are in the know about most things hunting and shooting. Talking about ethical kills, since he brought that up: First and foremost, you need to be sure your rifle is dialed in and up to the task. Using most Leupolds that chit out on you, is about the worst thing you can do (if you are concerned about making "ethical" shots) a lot of us here have learned it's not worth the risk, to use a Leupold rifle scope anymore. Furthermore, if it's going to fall apart when I'm shooting paper at the range, I'm for damn sure not going to use it in the field...!!!
Do you know Tom 264? you two could be best buds......
Word on the street is someone has been seen out shopping for a new head...Pretty Kewl....😬😎
Hey Beav, I heard Tom has been accepted into an experimental head transplant program... first ever.... Very little risk for Tom... not like he could get brain damage.....
I heard he was having a hard time deciding if a black head with braids or extensions would look better than going with a Caucasian Mullet...😂😎
There is no doubt that Vanilla Ice cube is a Leupold plant. There is something fishy about her responses, probably a member of their Q A team. SHe has been lurking I am sure.
There are two issues that need to be clearly identified in these discussions:
- "Good enough" for me and my application may not be for someone else. For the guy that shoots moose at 100 yards or less, a 0.5-1 MOA random POI shift goes unnoticed and is not a problem. For the next guy shooting a 6BR that is capable of shooting in the 0.2's, a 0.5 MOA random reticle shift is unacceptable.
- The probability/likelihood of a scope starting to exhibit new POI shift behaviours varies with different brands and models of scopes. It's probably safe to say that the average NF scope can go many thousands more rounds before random POI shift starts to occur than the average Leupold. So just because something has behaved well for a few hundred, or even a thousand rounds, that doesn't mean it will continue to do so.
While that assessment may meet your criteria when you say that the "scope and barrel are fine", it really doesn't say all that much about the zero retention/POI shift behaviour of the scope, nor the condition of the barrel. Rather than a single shot at 100 and another at 200, shooting groups and measuring velocity can indicate the condition of the barrel, and repeated, consistently-sized and centered 3-shot groups can show how the scope is holding up. No offense intended, just passing on my observations after dealing with many frustrating scope failures, while recognizing that people's scope requirements vary.
Of course not, what works for one may not for another. I agree 100%. Some on this site cannot accept that though.... why?
The POI hasn't moved. Still groups the same from year to year. The scope/barrel are fine in the sense it still shoots the same as it has and once it starts to stray, then I'll figure out what the issue is. But when it does, i won't bad mouth the scope or barrel or the gun. Things wear out over time, everything mechanical does. I didn't just shoot it twice that day. Nor did i say i only shot it twice that day (probably shot 40 rounds thru that rifle that day and don't assume all were in a row, they were spaced out over a few hours). This rifle I mentioned in this post is a hunting rifle that shoots really good (for me!). This isn't a competition rifle by any means. It will hold sub MOA easily and I'm comfortable shooting it the way i do for hunting purposes. I choose not to take a shot at game over 400yds with this setup. My choice and what I'm comfortable with. If i wan't to target shoot, then I'll use my target rifles and yes, minute errors then come into play. But that's a different scenario. If i want to take longer shots at game animals, then I'll use a different setup.
Way too many assumptions happen on this site. I'll have to be much more blunt in future posts, not that I'll post much anymore anyway. People here look to find faults in anyone that doesn't agree with their way and cannot accept the fact that their way is not the only way. What works for some may not work for others. I do not push my opinions on others, they're just that... opinions. Take 'em or leave 'em... i truly don't care. (not pointed specifically at you Jordan, just a general statement)
Different skillsets for different hunting conditions. I can throw an appe in the air and bust it 9 out of 10 with my iron sighted .30-30. Sometimes the ability to hit fast moving game at close range is important to my success where I hunt. Can you do that with your rig ? I can hit a 3" diameter bull offhand at 75 yards consistently with any of my deer rifles, iron sights or scope. That skillset is also important to my success and I practice it diligently. Can you best that with your rig ? Different skillsets for different conditions.
Solid gold right there. Freaking Quigley.........
Sarcasm noted
I KNEW you sucked. At everything.
All Bow down to the King of the Adirondacks. Wild Bill Hickock and Carlos Hathcock all rolled up into one. How do you have a house big enough to hold all these medals and trophy racks? You are simply amazing. One of these days when I visit my Buddy in NY I will come up and see you and get your autograph oh Larry Benoit of the NY Woods.
My medals are all in a shoebox in the closet. Some of the racks are on my living room walls, some on the bedroom walls and some in the shed. I guess I'd better not mention how I've shot rabbits on the run and birds and bats out of the air with a .22.. In fact I even shot barn swallows out of the air with my BB gun when I was a kid. Lots of them.
Do you know Tom 264? you two could be best buds......
Word on the street is someone has been seen out shopping for a new head...Pretty Kewl....😬😎
Hey Beav, I heard Tom has been accepted into an experimental head transplant program... first ever.... Very little risk for Tom... not like he could get brain damage.....
I heard he was having a hard time deciding if a black head with braids or extensions would look better than going with a Caucasian Mullet...😂😎
It’s fairly simple to run down each piece of equipment to determine if it’s the cause of shooting issues. It does eat up time and it’s frustrating as hell having to do it...See Fred’s post on his VX6 Scope failure as a perfect example of running to ground a problem.
Exactly. As Fred found in this case, back when I used to use a lot of Leupold and similar scopes, "swap scopes" was number 1 on my list of most likely solutions. Not anymore.
Oh i see you're editing your posts now. good idea.
Mark Twain quote:
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
You have that tied up with experience. Good luck in life.
I have to edit often because I am a terrible typer ...... and Kingston get's after me for grammatical errors. Thank you for your concern regarding my luck in life..... bit it is unnecessary I seem to manage fine..... I would like to get off my couch and shoot a gun though... someday... hahahahahaha Oh and I CAN hit a target at 630yds and 718 yds etc.... over and over again.... hahahahaha
Different skillsets for different hunting conditions. I can throw an appe in the air and bust it 9 out of 10 with my iron sighted .30-30. Sometimes the ability to hit fast moving game at close range is important to my success where I hunt. Can you do that with your rig ? I can hit a 3" diameter bull offhand at 75 yards consistently with any of my deer rifles, iron sights or scope. That skillset is also important to my success and I practice it diligently. Can you best that with your rig ? Different skillsets for different conditions.
Blacheart,
I am not a long range hunter, I do enjoy long range shooting, gongs mostly, I will snipe a long range varmint though. I have everything from an open sighted 30-30 to long range rifles with dialable scopes.
Around my current home the forest is relatively thick and the ranges tend to be short, so a low power scope isn't necessarily a handicap and a fine tuned rifle unnecessary, most of the time... long range opportunities do exist though as I am in the mountains.
But I do travel and hunt wide open country and the shots do average 300yds and find all the consistent accuracy I can get important.
As far as hitting a 3" bull offhand at 75 yds. yes not always of course. I have a 3" gong that is 50yds from my porch and I hit it more times than not with my Rem 581 22lr open sight, I have found I hit it much more often with my CZ 452 with a Weaver 4X though. I find no handicap at close range with a scope.
As I said before, where I hunt there is rarely an opportunity for a shot at a deer more than 100 yards away. Most are much closer and I shoot many inside 30 yards. That's why 95% of my practice is done offhand. I rarely shoot a deer any other way. I have steel spinners set up out in the back yard and step out several times a week with one of my .22's and bang off 50-100 rds of .22LR at the spinners. The 2"diameter spinner is set at 65 yards and I'll average 8 - 9 hits for every 10 shots on it. My record on that spinner is 78 hits in a row without a miss.
There are two issues that need to be clearly identified in these discussions:
- "Good enough" for me and my application may not be for someone else. For the guy that shoots moose at 100 yards or less, a 0.5-1 MOA random POI shift goes unnoticed and is not a problem. For the next guy shooting a 6BR that is capable of shooting in the 0.2's, a 0.5 MOA random reticle shift is unacceptable.
- The probability/likelihood of a scope starting to exhibit new POI shift behaviours varies with different brands and models of scopes. It's probably safe to say that the average NF scope can go many thousands more rounds before random POI shift starts to occur than the average Leupold. So just because something has behaved well for a few hundred, or even a thousand rounds, that doesn't mean it will continue to do so.
While that assessment may meet your criteria when you say that the "scope and barrel are fine", it really doesn't say all that much about the zero retention/POI shift behaviour of the scope, nor the condition of the barrel. Rather than a single shot at 100 and another at 200, shooting groups and measuring velocity can indicate the condition of the barrel, and repeated, consistently-sized and centered 3-shot groups can show how the scope is holding up. No offense intended, just passing on my observations after dealing with many frustrating scope failures, while recognizing that people's scope requirements vary.
The POI hasn't moved. Still groups the same from year to year. The scope/barrel are fine in the sense it still shoots the same as it has and once it starts to stray, then I'll figure out what the issue is. But when it does, i won't bad mouth the scope or barrel or the gun. Things wear out over time, everything mechanical does. I didn't just shoot it twice that day. Nor did i say i only shot it twice that day (probably shot 40 rounds thru that rifle that day and don't assume all were in a row, they were spaced out over a few hours). This rifle I mentioned in this post is a hunting rifle that shoots really good (for me!). This isn't a competition rifle by any means. It will hold sub MOA easily and I'm comfortable shooting it the way i do for hunting purposes. I choose not to take a shot at game over 400yds with this setup. My choice and what I'm comfortable with. If i wan't to target shoot, then I'll use my target rifles and yes, minute errors then come into play. But that's a different scenario. If i want to take longer shots at game animals, then I'll use a different setup.
There's nothing wrong with that. If something works for you in your application, there's not much need to change it. That's not to say that there may not be better ways of doing things, more of a "don't fix what ain't broke" approach.
I make no assumptions about how much you shoot. I was simply addressing the two shots you mentioned in response to the idea of zero retention.
I thought NY didn't allow logging on their State Lands you know the "forever wild " clause, Oh wait that is the Mighty Adirondacks where no logging is allowed.
I thought NY didn't allow logging on their State Lands you know the "forever wild " clause, Oh wait that is the Mighty Adirondacks where no logging is allowed.
No logging allowed in any of the designated wilderness areas in both the Catskills and Adirondacks. Logging is allowed on State forest lands which are scattered across the state.. Some of the Western hunters like to belittle what is available in NY but the FACT remains that the Adirondack park is the biggest park in the continental US, covers one fifth of the land area of the entire State, is roughly the size of the entire State of Vermont and nearly 3 times the size of Yellowstone. Hunting the big woods of the Adirondacks or Catskills is a far cry from hunting farmland deer.
Jordan you are being very diplomatic with cjc73.... you are much nicer than me....
My first post to him was a simple question: (Do you believe you would be as "effective " on a shot beyond your holdover distance as a guy with a scope that dials accurately?)
And he replied : Yes, but i hold myself to a certain distance while hunting. Don't always have time to dial while hunting.
I didn't ask him about hunting..... he made assumptions... then accused me of that.....
I'm not expert on the Adirondacks, but that pic is not near rough enough country to be from the NE. That crap is vast and virtually straight up and down like W Montana and Arizona, at least that's what I was told.
BTW, I can routinely knock aspirin out of the air with my Leupy scoped Tikka 7mag. Apples and 30-30's ain't squat.
Give it up. There is a small claque of "wannabe snipers" with delusions of grandeur and elitist aspirations in this site that may be shills for other scope companies. Their steel banging methodology simply does not generalize to ethical hunting. Shooting at live animals at extended ranges is good for their feeble egos but not ethical hunting. I doubt these Kestrel, bipod, sandbag, stick idiots have a clue about real hunting. In their eyes, hitting an animal at extended ranges is more important than potentially wounding/losing one. I doubt very much they care about foot pounds of energy at target when shooting big game...... There is a duality they do not comprehend. Ethical hunting means delivering the necessary foot pounds of energy at vital areas to ensure a "clean kill." Shooting elk at 1,400 yards with one's .338 Lapua is for CRETINS. I doubt they walk in the woods carrying a .375 Cheytac to ensure clean kills at extended ranges.
Leupold scopes work for most hunters at customary hunting ranges. One does not need to crank on a door knob and use a bipod to cleanly take most big game animals. I wonder if these guys work for NF or SWFA?
How much are you getting paid to shill? Pathetic....no one "lied" to you......paranoia is hard to manage...there is help available!
Originally Posted by IceCut
irfubar,
Another member of the "squad" shows solidarity with his "compadre." I wonder what this little group of "wannabes" do when they get together?
Originally Posted by IceCut
Jordan Smith,
Another member of the "squad" shows up. Your squadmates make AOC's squad look disloyal. Insecure people need peer acceptance and group membership to function. Work on it. You may eventually be free to make individual judgements.....work on your sarcasm, it is pretty juvenile....
Originally Posted by IceCut
Irfubar,
Hmmm....first of all, is that caliber legal in the state you are hunting for taking big game? I think you need to read the regs. Unless, of course, you have no clue about specific caliber requirements in different states/provinces. Second of all, define deer. Axis deer? Red deer? Northern whitetail? Key west deer? Mule deer in Mexico? Mule deer in Colorado....be specific....Third of all, what conditions. Animal is alerted and running full tilt? Animal is unaware, rested? Conditions are important. Fourth of all, bullet placement. Fifth of all, what bullet type are you using?
I am sorry if this is too complicated your you and your "squad" mates to grasp.....maybe, I need to break it down into manageable chunks?
I'm not expert on the Adirondacks, but that pic is not near rough enough country to be from the NE. That crap is vast and virtually straight up and down like W Montana and Arizona, at least that's what I was told.
You were NEVER told that idiot. I doubt like hell you can chew gum and walk at the same time, much less shoot anything out of the air with a rifle. I do believe you can spread your ears and fly if that's any consolation.
I'm not expert on the Adirondacks, but that pic is not near rough enough country to be from the NE. That crap is vast and virtually straight up and down like W Montana and Arizona, at least that's what I was told.
BTW, I can routinely knock aspirin out of the air with my Leupy scoped Tikka 7mag. Apples and 30-30's ain't squat.
Johnny, I don’t know about you shooting headache medicine, but you have certainly knocked some big beasts off their feet on a regular basis...Regularly is key...Stumbling into a lottery fur once every several years isn’t the same as consistently hammering big critters.
Tikka’s just flat out shoot...I don’t doubt should you endeavor to stunt shoot white pills outta the air. A Tikka wouldn’t handicap a guy. 😎
I'm not expert on the Adirondacks, but that pic is not near rough enough country to be from the NE. That crap is vast and virtually straight up and down like W Montana and Arizona, at least that's what I was told.
BTW, I can routinely knock aspirin out of the air with my Leupy scoped Tikka 7mag. Apples and 30-30's ain't squat.
Hi BH...How’s your diplomacy working out today on the Fire? I haven’t read all the posts today, so if members are being hostile towards you I will tell them to “Stop it” posthaste...I know you’re trying to be nice. 😎
I'm not expert on the Adirondacks, but that pic is not near rough enough country to be from the NE. That crap is vast and virtually straight up and down like W Montana and Arizona, at least that's what I was told.
BTW, I can routinely knock aspirin out of the air with my Leupy scoped Tikka 7mag. Apples and 30-30's ain't squat.
That's a trophy Lake Placid Mule Deer......
Lake Placid brings to mind toboggan and bobsled racers. 😎
I'm not expert on the Adirondacks, but that pic is not near rough enough country to be from the NE. That crap is vast and virtually straight up and down like W Montana and Arizona, at least that's what I was told.
BTW, I can routinely knock aspirin out of the air with my Leupy scoped Tikka 7mag. Apples and 30-30's ain't squat.
Johnny, I don’t know about you shooting headache medicine, but you have certainly knocked some big beasts off their feet on a regular basis...Regularly is key...Stumbling into a lottery fur once every several years isn’t the same as consistently hammering big critters.
Tikka’s just flat out shoot...I don’t doubt should you endeavor to stunt shoot white pills outta the air. A Tikka wouldn’t handicap a guy. 😎
Doesn't everybody shoot big deer in Texas ? Geesus it's most all carefully controlled and managed private land ain't it ? Used to know a guy here that hunted his ass off every season for 10 years and only killed but one spike buck. He went to Texas for a week and came back with a 150" buck. Did he suddenly learn how to hunt or is it just that it's easy in Texas ?
I am always nice and respectful to the king of the Adirondacks......
Even posted a pic supporting his claims.....
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank campfire members for staying on topic for a a change..... well almost all , Beav did veer of course for a bit with the Tom head transplant ... but that's ok... Tom deserves it.
I am sure Leupold will change it's ways based on our feed back....
I'm not expert on the Adirondacks, but that pic is not near rough enough country to be from the NE. That crap is vast and virtually straight up and down like W Montana and Arizona, at least that's what I was told.
BTW, I can routinely knock aspirin out of the air with my Leupy scoped Tikka 7mag. Apples and 30-30's ain't squat.
That's a trophy Lake Placid Mule Deer......
Lake Placid brings to mind toboggan and bobsled racers. 😎
'Flave shot that with a 220gr round nose. He was midcourse down the luge track. There's youtube.
Hi BH...How’s your diplomacy working out today on the Fire? I haven’t read all the posts today, so if members are being hostile towards you I will tell them to “Stop it” posthaste...I know you’re trying to be nice. 😎
Hi BH...How’s your diplomacy working out today on the Fire? I haven’t read all the posts today, so if members are being hostile towards you I will tell them to “Stop it” posthaste...I know you’re trying to be nice. 😎
Doesn't everybody shoot big deer in Texas ? Geesus it's most all carefully controlled and managed private land ain't it ? Used to know a guy here that hunted his ass off every season for 10 years and only killed but one spike buck. He went to Texas for a week and came back with a 150" buck. Did he suddenly learn how to hunt or is it just that it's easy in Texas ?
Depends on where you go. I could put you on our mule deer ranch, private ground TX, and you likely wouldn't see a buck for a week, if at all.
BTW, I was born with these ears, you need to be a little bit more understanding about my situation please. And, how did you know I was talking to you about those rugged Adirondacks of the NE? Surely you must remember GregW posting those fantastic pics of the Adirondack mountain goats don't you?
Hi BH...How’s your diplomacy working out today on the Fire? I haven’t read all the posts today, so if members are being hostile towards you I will tell them to “Stop it” posthaste...I know you’re trying to be nice. 😎
I try. It ain't easy.
Dude, you have a lot going for you...Like Fubar said. “Be Strong”. 😎
Hi BH...How’s your diplomacy working out today on the Fire? I haven’t read all the posts today, so if members are being hostile towards you I will tell them to “Stop it” posthaste...I know you’re trying to be nice. 😎
I'm not expert on the Adirondacks, but that pic is not near rough enough country to be from the NE. That crap is vast and virtually straight up and down like W Montana and Arizona, at least that's what I was told.
BTW, I can routinely knock aspirin out of the air with my Leupy scoped Tikka 7mag. Apples and 30-30's ain't squat.
That's a trophy Lake Placid Mule Deer......
Lake Placid brings to mind toboggan and bobsled racers. 😎
'Flave shot that with a 220gr round nose. He was midcourse down the luge track. There's youtube.
Everybody says round count matters. How about recoil level ? I only have 5 Leupolds. Haven't had any trouble with them yet. They are all mounted on rifles of light recoil but the one on my .30-06 and that rifle doesn't get shot much as we don't have any grizzlies and they won't let us kill the moose. The '06 has maybe 250 rounds on it so far. I just got it a couple years ago. The others are mounted on a .223, a .22-250, a .243 and a Marlin 336 .30-30. The one with the most rounds on it is on the .223 with about 2500 maybe as many as 3000 down the pipe. It's still working fine as of a couple weeks ago.
Hi BH...How’s your diplomacy working out today on the Fire? I haven’t read all the posts today, so if members are being hostile towards you I will tell them to “Stop it” posthaste...I know you’re trying to be nice. 😎
I try. It ain't easy.
It's a process BH...... be strong
In his case more booze=bigger redasss.
Thanks Johnny for the reminder... cocktail time... game on bitches...
Everybody says round count matters. How about recoil level ? I only have 5 Leupolds. Haven't had any trouble with them yet. They are all mounted on rifles of light recoil but the one on my .30-06 and that rifle doesn't get shot much as we don't have any grizzlies and they won't let us kill the moose. The '06 has maye 250 rounds on it so far. I just got it a couple years ago. The others are mounted on a .223, a .22-250, a .243 and Marlin 336 .30-30. The one with the most rounds on it is on the .223 with about 2500 maybe as many as 3000 down down the pipe. It's still working fine as of a couple weeks ago.
One could argue that if you have an older Leupold on a varmint rig with less recoil you may have a gtg setup for a while.
It’s becoming more and more common to rip cellophane off a new Leupold box, mount it and discover the scope is schit...
I have a VX2 sitting as new in its box I bought 2 years ago that failed...I haven’t gotten around to sending it in since it was faster to order a Sightron S2 and be done with it...I need to send it in for repair. Maybe tomorrow...😎
Hi BH...How’s your diplomacy working out today on the Fire? I haven’t read all the posts today, so if members are being hostile towards you I will tell them to “Stop it” posthaste...I know you’re trying to be nice. 😎
I try. It ain't easy.
It's a process BH...... be strong
In his case more booze=bigger redasss.
You don't know much about anything. I quit drinking 5 years ago. Haven't had a single drop of alcohol since. The guys at work say I'm still an ornery old bastard. Try to remember you heard it first from me.
One could argue that if you have an older Leupold on a varmint rig with less recoil you may have a gtg setup for a while.
It’s becoming more and more common to rip cellophane off a new Leupold box, mount it and discover the scope is schit...
I have a VX2 sitting as new in its box I bought 2 years ago that failed...I haven’t gotten around to sending it in since it was faster to order a Sightron S2 and be done with it...I need to send it in for repair. Maybe tomorrow...😎
Instead of a coupon for a free CDS dial, Leupolds should come with prepaid shipping labels for warranty repair. Three of them.
Everybody says round count matters. How about recoil level ? I only have 5 Leupolds. Haven't had any trouble with them yet. They are all mounted on rifles of light recoil but the one on my .30-06 and that rifle doesn't get shot much as we don't have any grizzlies and they won't let us kill the moose. The '06 has maye 250 rounds on it so far. I just got it a couple years ago. The others are mounted on a .223, a .22-250, a .243 and Marlin 336 .30-30. The one with the most rounds on it is on the .223 with about 2500 maybe as many as 3000 down down the pipe. It's still working fine as of a couple weeks ago.
One could argue that if you have an older Leupold on a varmint rig with less recoil you may have a gtg setup for a while.
It’s becoming more and more common to rip cellophane off a new Leupold box, mount it and discover the scope is schit...
I have a VX2 sitting as new in its box I bought 2 years ago that failed...I haven’t gotten around to sending it in since it was faster to order a Sightron S2 and be done with it...I need to send it in for repair. Maybe tomorrow...😎
Thanks for the reply. Should I be worried about the .243 and .30-30 or should they be good for awhile too ? I do occasionally use he .243 for deer but mostly coyotes and woodchucks. It has maybe 1000 rds. on it. The .30-30 I wouldn't even like to guess how many rounds. It's got an old 1-4 VX-II on it and is one of my main venison collectors so zero retention is important to me.
I'm not expert on the Adirondacks, but that pic is not near rough enough country to be from the NE. That crap is vast and virtually straight up and down like W Montana and Arizona, at least that's what I was told.
BTW, I can routinely knock aspirin out of the air with my Leupy scoped Tikka 7mag. Apples and 30-30's ain't squat.
That's a trophy Lake Placid Mule Deer......
They are rare those Lake Placid Mule Deer. I hope they are not on the endangered list.
Thanks for the reply. Should I be worried about the .243 and .30-30 or should they be good for awhile too ? I do occasionally use he .243 for deer but mostly coyotes and woodchucks. It has maybe 1000 rds. on it. The .30-30 I wouldn't even like to guess how many rounds. It's got an old 1-4 VX-II on it and is one of my main venison collectors so zero retention is important to me.
I'm not expert on the Adirondacks, but that pic is not near rough enough country to be from the NE. That crap is vast and virtually straight up and down like W Montana and Arizona, at least that's what I was told.
BTW, I can routinely knock aspirin out of the air with my Leupy scoped Tikka 7mag. Apples and 30-30's ain't squat.
That's a trophy Lake Placid Mule Deer......
They are rare those Lake Placid Mule Deer. I hope they are not on the endangered list.
Thanks for the reply. Should I be worried about the .243 and .30-30 or should they be good for awhile too ? I do occasionally use he .243 for deer but mostly coyotes and woodchucks. It has maybe 1000 rds. on it. The .30-30 I wouldn't even like to guess how many rounds. It's got an old 1-4 VX-II on it and is one of my main venison collectors so zero retention is important to me.
If I were you, I’d be worried about my apple gun.
No worries. That one has a receiver sight on it. Very dependable.
I'm not expert on the Adirondacks, but that pic is not near rough enough country to be from the NE. That crap is vast and virtually straight up and down like W Montana and Arizona, at least that's what I was told.
BTW, I can routinely knock aspirin out of the air with my Leupy scoped Tikka 7mag. Apples and 30-30's ain't squat.
That's a trophy Lake Placid Mule Deer......
They are rare those Lake Placid Mule Deer. I hope they are not on the endangered list.
Thanks for the reply. Should I be worried about the .243 and .30-30 or should they be good for awhile too ? I do occasionally use he .243 for deer but mostly coyotes and woodchucks. It has maybe 1000 rds. on it. The .30-30 I wouldn't even like to guess how many rounds. It's got an old 1-4 VX-II on it and is one of my main venison collectors so zero retention is important to me.
If I were you, I’d be worried about my apple gun.
No worries. That one has a receiver sight on it. Very dependable.
Apparently Pollocks have thicker skin than Leupold users......
Actually I've been more of a Weaver user most of my life. Still have a bunch of K-2.5's, K-3's, and V-7's, 9's and 10's mounted on rifles. Even got an old D-4 mounted on one of my pellet rifles. If ever a scope should have gone bad it's the K-2.5 I had mounted on about a half dozen different 12 gauge slug guns over a 10 year period. Did alot of load testing with that scope. Had probably 500 12 gauge slugs shot out from under it before I mounted it on a Marlin .30-30. That .30-30 consistently puts 3 shots under an inch at 100 yards. The scope still holds zero perfectly.
You don't know much about anything. I quit drinking 5 years ago. Haven't had a single drop of alcohol since. The guys at work say I'm still an ornery old bastard. Try to remember you heard it first from me. [/quote]
Congrats on your sobriety, but yes, you're still an ornery old, blackhearted bastid.
Good grief , next thing ya know Fireballz is gonna show up and make this thread about him and turn it into a pity party...... focus you clowns this is about Leupolds future for cryin out loud....
Good grief , next thing ya know Fireballz is gonna show up and make this thread about him and turn it into a pity party...... focus you clowns this is about Leupolds future for cryin out loud....
He’s busy picking fights with jet boat captains and building a toy hauler for his MatchBox car collection.
Jordan you are being very diplomatic with cjc73.... you are much nicer than me....
My first post to him was a simple question: (Do you believe you would be as "effective " on a shot beyond your holdover distance as a guy with a scope that dials accurately?)
And he replied : Yes, but i hold myself to a certain distance while hunting. Don't always have time to dial while hunting.
I didn't ask him about hunting..... he made assumptions... then accused me of that.....
He was being condescending little prick......
Because Jordan has a sense of intelligence and can carry on a civilized conversation. You're the prick in this whole thing.... i didn't assume anything. i answered your question and followed it up with some clarification on my end.
So to make it clear for you simpleton.... take me with my hold over and a guy dialing.... at 400 yards... yes, i'd be just as effective as the guy dialing for 400 in a hunting situation. if competition, then no (but I wouldn't be using this rifle either). Is that better?
As for the comment on ... oh what if its 401? We all have to make a call as to when to attempt a shot you're comfortable with, 400yds is a rough limit i hold myself to while hunting, others may go farther, good for them.. I'd take the 401yd shot if the conditions were right. Every situation is different. I may not take a shot at 300yd if i didn't feel comfortable with the situation.
I have other guns i hunt with with holdover marks and use them effectively too. I have target guns with dial scopes to shoot farther at inanimate objects. This started as a my rifle with a Leupold scope, thats it, one example. Was not meant to encompass the entire world of shooting sports. I hope that clears things up. Good day all....
Words have meaning...... read again. You said you are as effective past your holdover distance using holdover as a guy dialing. I may be a simpleton but I am going by YOUR words.
I'd take my Leupold on my 270Wby anywhere and be more than comfortable with it. I have targets with 3 shots touching in the X and haven't touched the zero in more than 10 years (yes that is a set and forget rifle/scope). I don't dial it for shots while hunting, i practice and holdover with a plain duplex reticle
I’d be knocking on wood.
Practice and confidence. And it's in a synthetic stock, so.....
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
If a rifle is capable of touching 3 shots at 100 yards, and it does so consistently with the same POI for the group center, then obviously the scope is holding zero just fine, and is not shifting. That scope would be considered one of the good ones. For now. Round count kills...
Round count on that rifle... probably close to a 1000 now
So, you would have confidence with that combination at 500 or more and using holdover?
Seems a few people had questions regarding your statements......
Battue is one of the nicest most reasonable guys on the fire.... not long ago he had a long thread defending Leupold's honor.... is he now a simpleton? Kingston is a very smart guy and accomplished rifleman... is he a simpleton also? Jordan is also very accomplished and a really nice guy...... is he a simpleton?
Maybe I am a simpleton because I didn't phrase my questions properly? I know for a fact in this case my reading comprehension wasn't off because others seen it the same as me.
Good grief , next thing ya know Fireballz is gonna show up and make this thread about him and turn it into a pity party...... focus you clowns this is about Leupolds future for cryin out loud....
Good grief , next thing ya know Fireballz is gonna show up and make this thread about him and turn it into a pity party...... focus you clowns this is about Leupolds future for cryin out loud....
Well done Carnac...😬😎
I could just as easily predict irfubr would show up on any given thread and take a big swaddling dump right in the middle of it, and be right, 100% of the time. Would that make me a genius or irfubar a tool?
Good grief , next thing ya know Fireballz is gonna show up and make this thread about him and turn it into a pity party...... focus you clowns this is about Leupolds future for cryin out loud....
Well done Carnac...😬😎
I could just as easily predict irfubr would show up on any given thread and take a big swaddling dump right in the middle of it, and be right, 100% of the time. Would that make me a genius or irfubar a tool?
My take on this thread.... Thank God for scopes that dial because obviously there would never have been any game killed without that capability... Them poor old timers....how did they not starve...
^^^^^^^ My take on this thread , , , apparently Leupold had a webinar and called us, as a whole, a bunch of uninformed dummies. We managed to pretty well agree that's what they said, and we agreed we didn't appreciate it. About the best anyone had to say about Leupold's performance was "What did you expect? Are you surprised?" Not a good day for Leupold on the 'Fire.
Then, true to the 'Fire, some folks got all into each other's business about what constitutes ethical hunting and good shooting. Much of this centered on "dialing" vs. "holdover." Some apparently decided others were in fact uninformed dummies, although not for the same reasons Leupold did. If you managed to keep track of who was on what side, or if there were only two sides, you kept up better than me.
When a thread starts out talking about a train wreck, if the question is can we make a bigger, or at least different, train wreck . . . oh hell yes. This is the 'Fire, is it not?
Finally, I need to watch my Leupold scopes for zero shifts that may be small, but significant enough to cause me to miss on a long shot. I need to get good enough at reading the wind to determine if the shift is the scope or the wind that day. I can agree with that, because I will have to get pretty good at wind calls if I want to ethically shoot game animals way out there. There wasn't a lot of talk about wind in the long range discussions.
I left out some details, but I think that sums it up pretty well . . . so far.
I have been watching for a campfire entrepreneur to establish a salvage clearing house for Leupold optics so I can dump mine and at least get 25 cents on the dollar.
Then, true to the 'Fire, some folks got all into each other's business about what constitutes ethical hunting and good shooting. Some apparently decided others were in fact uninformed dummies, although not for the same reasons Leupold did. If you managed to keep track of who was on what side, or if there were only two sides, you kept up better than me.
When a thread starts out talking about a train wreck, if the question is can we make a bigger, or at least different, train wreck . . . oh hell yes. This is the Fire, is it not? .
I do my best to keep these things on track....... but this bunch is out of control....
Have you ever been to Port O'Connor Texas? Sounds like it. It's one of the most entertaining boat ramps in the world. You want to see drunks fight? That's the place. What's funny is on Sunday afternoon and some Houston guy is pulling his boat out and gets into it with one of the locals and gets his ass whipped. Don't screw with locals who have anchors tattooed on both arms and excessive facial hair with his hat on sideways and a cigarette hanging out the side of his mouth doing the Bogart and beer on their breath. It's bad enough when two city boys get into it. If you're real lucky you get to see an occasional car back off into the Intercoastal. There's no end to the entertainment.
^^^^^^^ Launched at POC a time or two. Never saw what you describe, but I don't doubt you and I don't doubt you can find similar at most boat ramps across the country. Maybe they are all mellow in California? I think the ones in small towns with locals who resent city folk might add to the proceedings. I suspect those around salt water might have a bit tougher locals, as salt water is hard on damn near everything. Finally, the ramps in POC tend to be right on the intercoastal, so you get waves and usually a bit of wind. That makes smart boat handling even more important, and thus causes poor boat handling to be amplified and lead to fights.
Now how did we get here starting out about a condescending webinar from a company in Oregon? Oh, yeah, . . . we ARE the 'Fire!
Good grief , next thing ya know Fireballz is gonna show up and make this thread about him and turn it into a pity party...... focus you clowns this is about Leupolds future for cryin out loud....
Well done Carnac...😬😎
I could just as easily predict irfubr would show up on any given thread and take a big swaddling dump right in the middle of it, and be right, 100% of the time. Would that make me a genius or irfubar a tool?
Roy, referring to Fubar as phallic symbol by calling him a “tool” is mean. I know that remark cut him deep and possibly brought a tear to his eye...😎
The only Leupold problem I consistently run into is the locking nut of the ocular bell won't stay tight on many of my Leupolds. Were they to fix that I'd be completely happy.
This is where I am. Only I haven't yet had a big problem with the ocular lens adjustment lock ring.
I do acknowledge that my older Leupolds don't track real well. I have a VX-3 L that's all over the place until I get close to zero. But I'm not a knob twister, as I've said on here before. I set my scopes at the range and use hold over and Kentucky Windage in the field. However, my new VX-3is seem to track well. But that's at the range while zeroing in. Once I've got it Zeroed in I don't touch it. So I don't know how they'd do in the field twisting knobs.
I'm not getting rid of my Leupolds anytime soon. Like you say, NF and some of those others are cost prohibitive due to being on a fixed income.
On here it's Leupold Scopes. On my other favorite forum it's .270s that get bashed. I use both so I'm screwed one way or another. That's why I go back and forth between forums. I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.
I try to the best of my abilities to keep these threads civil and on track and avoid personal attacks and name calling. Unfortunately for my efforts I get called a "simpleton", a "tool", a "prick" and my intelligence is brought to question.......
These harsh words do indeed cut deep and sadden me.....
Fortunately these drooling cross eyed dumbfuuk's opinion counts about as much as a retarded 8yr old Tom 264....... jealous bitch's..... hahahaha
Oh and BH I forgive you for calling me an azzhole.... I bow to the king of the Adirondacks.....
You idiots knock that chit off! this thread is about a great American company that is swirlin the drain and we need to get them back on track..... focus kids focus
Merkin? I had to look that up. Geez again, what kind of girls do you hang around with?
Anyway, I doubt it. All of her Super Heavyweight weight lifting trophies were in the Au Natural division, she was the perennial Russian snatch champion for many years. However, they did allow them to wear the traditional babushka.
Ok that's it! I give up .... keeping you clowns on topic is like herding cats......
Hey did you hear Roy Clark died? oh and also the 223A.I. does not have enough energy to harvest deer and it not even legal... what do you think about that?
Also Jeff Epstien & Bill Clinton are satan worshipers and have an island where they rape and murder young girls....... no worry's "Q" will get them....
Oh and BH I forgive you for calling me an azzhole.... I bow to the king of the Adirondacks.....
I call just about everybody an ass hole at one time or another so it don't mean much coming from me.
I like that about you...Very generous in handing out the O-ring award. I’ve collected a couple myself. Haven’t reached the pinnacle of all awards. The morning flusher. There’s still time...😎
Ok that's it! I give up .... keeping you clowns on topic is like herding cats......
Hey did you hear Roy Clark died? oh and also the 223A.I. does not have enough energy to harvest deer and it not even legal... what do you think about that?
Also Jeff Epstien & Bill Clinton are satan worshipers and have an island where they rape and murder young girls....... no worry's "Q" will get them....
Leupold be damned.....
Brother Fubar,
Cats are hard to herd...They run awkward and fast. I would become tired quickly if you make me chase cats... Where are we putting the cats we do herd?
Can’t we just call them targets and shoot them using Leupold scopes?
New Slogan....Leupold, “If you want to “Pussyfoot” around with your scope”...”Leupold will make your kghunt smile”
We’re still in slogan development meetings at this time....Basically, all we’ve come up with is “Leupold” - then we get writers block and go outside to find cats to herd...
I would like to thank you for staying on topic..... your suggestions are most excellent.... I "feel" this is the proper direction and we should focus on catchy slogans in order to save Leupold from doom.
Think of the possible slogans printed on flat brimmed hats , fanboy t-shirts etc.... How about ; "Leupold, make every load count"
I encourage the campfire brain trust to contribute..... help is on the way
The funny/sad part of this is you know Leupold is keeping an eye on this thread. So any tendencies they might have to write us off as a bunch of dip schidts are being fed like water our of a fire hose.
I didn't see the webinar, but the consensus seems to be they shot themselves in the foot. I think we may have pretty well made it a circular firing squad.
I fear that somewhere in Beaverton there is a bean counter in a bespoke suit that is feeling pretty smug about now. And he shouldn't be.
The funny/sad part of this is you know Leupold is keeping an eye on this thread. So any tendencies they might have to write us off as a bunch of dip schidts are being fed like water our of a fire hose.
I didn't see the webinar, but the consensus seems to be they shot themselves in the foot. I think we may have pretty well made it a circular firing squad.
I fear that somewhere in Beaverton there is a bean counter in a bespoke suit that is feeling pretty smug about now. And he shouldn't be.
They made a decision to write us of before the webinar.... that is why we are responding the way we are. Everybody was pretty respectful before and during the webinar (at least by campfire standards) They thumbed their noses at us and we are reciprocating..... They reserve the right to run the brand into the ground..... We reserve the right to voice our opinions and spend our dollars elsewhere.....
The funny/sad part of this is you know Leupold is keeping an eye on this thread. So any tendencies they might have to write us off as a bunch of dip schidts are being fed like water our of a fire hose.
I didn't see the webinar, but the consensus seems to be they shot themselves in the foot. I think we may have pretty well made it a circular firing squad.
I fear that somewhere in Beaverton there is a bean counter in a bespoke suit that is feeling pretty smug about now. And he shouldn't be.
They made a decision to write us of before the webinar.... that is why we are responding the way we are. Everybody was pretty respectful before and during the webinar (at least by campfire standards) They thumbed their noses at us and we are reciprocating..... They reserve the right to run the brand into the ground..... We reserve the right to voice our opinions and spend our dollars elsewhere.....
You are probably correct that they "wrote us off" before the webinar. In fact, it sounds as if the webinar was more about damage control on their part as opposed to an opportunity to learn about any issues and how they might correct them. They deserve any reciprocation they receive for their behavior concerning the subject at hand. Yes, they can run the company any way they please, and quite possibly into the ground. Yes, we can voice our opinions and spend our money as we please.
My point is that if there was any chance they might realize they have a bigger problem that deserves efforts over and above damage control, all the usual 'Fire antics (chest thumping, name calling, and talking past each other) for much of the last 26 pages probably didn't do much to convince them that here was a community of knowledgeable, serious, and rational shooters they should be paying attention to. I'm not saying there aren't a lot of knowledgeable, serious, and rational shooters here on the 'Fire. But I am saying that perception matters when you are trying to make a point, and sometimes we as a whole don't do ourselves much good in that department.
I see your point GunDoc7....... they need to understand we were on their side before we weren't....... at this point feed em fish..... they showed no respect..... the old saying the customer is always right is still valid.... Leupold is arrogant and the outcome was predicted and predictable.
It is up to them to figure out the wheat from the chaff....... if they are unable they can go the way of Sears & Roebuck for all I care.....
Ok that's it! I give up .... keeping you clowns on topic is like herding cats......
Hey did you hear Roy Clark died? oh and also the 223A.I. does not have enough energy to harvest deer and it not even legal... what do you think about that?
Also Jeff Epstien & Bill Clinton are satan worshipers and have an island where they rape and murder young girls....... no worry's "Q" will get them....
Leupold be damned.....
And they're all meeting up at Area 51 where they took Roy Clark's body.
This will be the 1st fall since the late 1980's that I won't be carrying a rifle with a Leupold atop it. Mounted and zero'd 2 Nightforce NXS 2.5-10's and a similar powered Leica yesterday. 60+ Leupold scopes will sit idle this fall.
Ok that's it! I give up .... keeping you clowns on topic is like herding cats......
Hey did you hear Roy Clark died? oh and also the 223A.I. does not have enough energy to harvest deer and it not even legal... what do you think about that?
Also Jeff Epstien & Bill Clinton are satan worshipers and have an island where they rape and murder young girls....... no worry's "Q" will get them....
Leupold be damned.....
And they're all meeting up at Area 51 where they took Roy Clark's body.
You are coming up with some good stuff. I take back 2 older outdated GFYs.
The funny/sad part of this is you know Leupold is keeping an eye on this thread.
Why would they waste their time reading a thread if they don't care what's being said?
I don't know if they are reading this thread. But I'm not sure they don't care either.
It is possible they came here thinking they could feed us a bunch of bs as damage control. That clearly didn't go well. So perhaps they are starting to get a clue. The fact that they showed up, even if only to try to feed us bs, might indicate things are not going as well as they let on. I suspect they know they have issues. No matter what numbers they try to feed us, they know the real numbers. I also suspect they know how to fix the problems. The question is can they (continuing to build scopes in the US) put out a good product at a competitive price, and will the bean counters let them try?
Companies do sometimes turn around. I don't know how many times Colt quality has gone up and down.
The funny/sad part of this is you know Leupold is keeping an eye on this thread.
Why would they waste their time reading a thread if they don't care what's being said?
I don't know if they are reading this thread. But I'm not sure they don't care either.
It is possible they came here thinking they could feed us a bunch of bs as damage control. That clearly didn't go well. So perhaps they are starting to get a clue. The fact that they showed up, even if only to try to feed us bs, might indicate things are not going as well as they let on. I suspect they know they have issues. No matter what numbers they try to feed us, they know the real numbers. I also suspect they know how to fix the problems. The question is can they (continuing to build scopes in the US) put out a good product at a competitive price, and will the bean counters let them try?
Companies do sometimes turn around. I don't know how many times Colt quality has gone up and down.
I’m not sure they do know they have problems. I called Leupold 3 times and talked to 3 different people and got 3 different answers for the same question.
So did anyone here expect leupold to admit their scopes suck?
They were between a rock & a hard spot no doubt.... seems a smarter strategy would have been to say no to Doug's request. Create a sock puppet start a thread ask question then listen. Or they could have simply done a search of past threads. They made a decision to tell us how great they are and how stupid we are.... With these decision making skills it helps you understand how they are in the spot they are in.
I’m not sure they do know they have problems. I called Leupold 3 times and talked to 3 different people and got 3 different answers for the same question.
I'm not surprised, but that is the people that answer the phone. I'd bet good money there are some engineers and technicians we don't get to talk to that know pretty damn well what the issues are. Corporate stupid is not technically stupid.
Again, I didn't see the webinar, but it sounds like there was a young guy ("flat brim") and an older guy. I wouldn't be surprised if corporate had to OK the webinar and they gave those two some pretty pointed instructions. I recall someone saying the older guy seem disinterested? Perhaps he wasn't happy about having to try to jerk us around with a bunch of bs?
I'm not defending Leupold at all. Just saying bad decisions at the front office can completely screw up what some very capable technical people are allowed to do.
I’m not sure they do know they have problems. I called Leupold 3 times and talked to 3 different people and got 3 different answers for the same question.
I'm not surprised, but that is the people that answer the phone. I'd bet good money there are some engineers and technicians we don't get to talk to that know pretty damn well what the issues are. Corporate stupid is not technically stupid.
Again, I didn't see the webinar, but it sounds like there was a young guy ("flat brim") and an older guy. I wouldn't be surprised if corporate had to OK the webinar and they gave those two some pretty pointed instructions. I recall someone saying the older guy seem disinterested? Perhaps he wasn't happy about having to try to jerk us around with a bunch of bs?
I'm not defending Leupold at all. Just saying bad decisions at the front office can completely screw up what some very capable technical people are allowed to do.
My question was "what is the torque spec for the rings" I was given 3 different answers. Surely that qestion does not require an engineer to answer.
So I have a goat, elk, moose hunt set for 2020 and am about to swap a 25 year old Vari-X-3 2.5-8X that I have killed a lot of game with (multiple elk, a BC grizz , blackies, and mulies with, to a recent VX-5HD 2-10X pawn shop $300 piece There is no question that the newer scope's optics are far superior but the old scope has endured for years as are the clicks. Thoughts?
They were between a rock & a hard spot no doubt.... seems a smarter strategy would have been to say no to Doug's request. Create a sock puppet start a thread ask question then listen. Or they could have simply done a search of past threads. They made a decision to tell us how great they are and how stupid we are.... With these decision making skills it helps you understand how they are in the spot they are in.
Has there ever been an instance when a manufacture came in here and it ended well for them?
They were between a rock & a hard spot no doubt.... seems a smarter strategy would have been to say no to Doug's request. Create a sock puppet start a thread ask question then listen. Or they could have simply done a search of past threads. They made a decision to tell us how great they are and how stupid we are.... With these decision making skills it helps you understand how they are in the spot they are in.
Has there ever been an instance when a manufacture came in here and it ended well for them?
They were between a rock & a hard spot no doubt.... seems a smarter strategy would have been to say no to Doug's request. Create a sock puppet start a thread ask question then listen. Or they could have simply done a search of past threads. They made a decision to tell us how great they are and how stupid we are.... With these decision making skills it helps you understand how they are in the spot they are in.
Has there ever been an instance when a manufacture came in here and it ended well for them?
The funny/sad part of this is you know Leupold is keeping an eye on this thread.
Why would they waste their time reading a thread if they don't care what's being said?
I don't know if they are reading this thread. But I'm not sure they don't care either.
It is possible they came here thinking they could feed us a bunch of bs as damage control. That clearly didn't go well. So perhaps they are starting to get a clue. The fact that they showed up, even if only to try to feed us bs, might indicate things are not going as well as they let on. I suspect they know they have issues. No matter what numbers they try to feed us, they know the real numbers. I also suspect they know how to fix the problems. The question is can they (continuing to build scopes in the US) put out a good product at a competitive price, and will the bean counters let them try?
Companies do sometimes turn around. I don't know how many times Colt quality has gone up and down.
I’m not sure they do know they have problems. I called Leupold 3 times and talked to 3 different people and got 3 different answers for the same question.
I guaran-effing-tee that whatever troubles they have, they know about. They're either okay with the situation, or quietly working on a solution. If the latter, we'll never know about it because that would require them owning up to it, clearly not an option.
So I have a goat, elk, moose hunt set for 2020 and am about to swap a 25 year old Vari-X-3 2.5-8X that I have killed a lot of game with (multiple elk, a BC grizz , blackies, and mulies with, to a recent VX-5HD 2-10X pawn shop $300 piece There is no question that the newer scope's optics are far superior but the old scope has endured for years as are the clicks. Thoughts?
If the scope has worked well for 25 years and you haven't had any problems with it, why would you switch to a new, unproven scope?
So I have a goat, elk, moose hunt set for 2020 and am about to swap a 25 year old Vari-X-3 2.5-8X that I have killed a lot of game with (multiple elk, a BC grizz , blackies, and mulies with, to a recent VX-5HD 2-10X pawn shop $300 piece There is no question that the newer scope's optics are far superior but the old scope has endured for years as are the clicks. Thoughts?
If the scope has worked well for 25 years and you haven't had any problems with it, why would you switch to a new, unproven scope?
My question was "what is the torque spec for the rings" I was given 3 different answers. Surely that qestion does not require an engineer to answer.
Oregon Farmer tight. That's 17% tighter than Florida farmer tight.
Limp-wristed hippy OR farmer tight is about 40000% less than ND/SD/MT farmer tight. Our stuff has to endure ~140 degree temp swings throughout the year without the benefit of having stuff rust into place in under a week.
I'll betchya that Jim C has adapters that'll allow him to use a 3' long breaker made for 1" drive sockets adapted down to 1/4" drive sockets in order to get his tyke's training wheels on tight enough.
They were between a rock & a hard spot no doubt.... seems a smarter strategy would have been to say no to Doug's request. Create a sock puppet start a thread ask question then listen. Or they could have simply done a search of past threads. They made a decision to tell us how great they are and how stupid we are.... With these decision making skills it helps you understand how they are in the spot they are in.
Has there ever been an instance when a manufacture came in here and it ended well for them?
Lots of companies advertise here without issue. Actually they do very well because of it.
So I have a goat, elk, moose hunt set for 2020 and am about to swap a 25 year old Vari-X-3 2.5-8X that I have killed a lot of game with (multiple elk, a BC grizz , blackies, and mulies with, to a recent VX-5HD 2-10X pawn shop $300 piece There is no question that the newer scope's optics are far superior but the old scope has endured for years as are the clicks. Thoughts?
If the scope has worked well for 25 years and you haven't had any problems with it, why would you switch to a new, unproven scope?
My thoughts exactly.
No way I'd gamble with a pawn-shop Leupold for a hunt unless I had plenty of time to wring it out first. Reason being is my Leupolds that have given me trouble have all hit the road after being fixed.
I wonder how Leupold’s business has been since July 2019, up, down or sideways? I guess you can’t underestimate brand recognition and loyalty combined with slick advertising vs actual product performance.
If there is, I'm sure Leupold would pay a lot of what Bob Guccione would call "Good American Dollars" to have it destroyed.
Shortly after it went down, there were links to it posted on several threads and other forums, IIRC. It was one of the more stupifying spectacles I've seen on the interwebs. I'm not sure those dudes were really qualified to answer some of the more technical questions, and their overall tone made me feel like Leupold was patronizing their customer base.
I guess you can’t underestimate brand recognition and loyalty combined with slick advertising vs actual product performance.
I’m a member of another forum, primarily eastern US bird hunters. They had a Leupold thread the other day. To 95% of those guys scopes begin and end with Leupold, they’re great. Their customer service is top notch , etc etc etc. the original poster then reported back 3 weeks later that the custom shop refused to change his parallax yardage. Pissed in their cheerios.
I’m not a Leupold basher, most of my scopes are Leupold, but I recognize they aren’t what they used to be.
I'm not sure those dudes were really qualified to answer some of the more technical questions, and their overall tone made me feel like Leupold was patronizing their customer base.
That was my takeaway as well.
Though the company recently went above-and-beyond for my father on a warranty claim.
I’m not a Leupold basher, I like the styling of their traditional scopes and so want them to work, and they do for set it and forget it big game hunting. But I got tired of the sight in dance when you adjusted a scope two clicks and it jumps 6”. And then you use a couple other brands of scopes that adjust as advertised and you realize you don’t have to put up with poor performance.
But I got tired of the sight in dance when you adjusted a scope two clicks and it jumps 6”. And then you use a couple other brands of scopes that adjust as advertised and you realize you don’t have to put up with poor performance.
Exactly and they don’t have to cost a small fortune. Burris is head and shoulders above as well as Meopta when it comes to internals and sighting it in at the range.
I'm not sure those dudes were really qualified to answer some of the more technical questions, and their overall tone made me feel like Leupold was patronizing their customer base.
That was my takeaway as well.
Though the company recently went above-and-beyond for my father on a warranty claim.
Credit where credit is due: Their CS has always been fantastic.
I guess you can’t underestimate brand recognition and loyalty combined with slick advertising vs actual product performance.
I’m a member of another forum, primarily eastern US bird hunters. They had a Leupold thread the other day. To 95% of those guys scopes begin and end with Leupold, they’re great. Their customer service is top notch , etc etc etc. the original poster then reported back 3 weeks later that the custom shop refused to change his parallax yardage. Pissed in their cheerios.
I’m not a Leupold basher, most of my scopes are Leupold, but I recognize they aren’t what they used to be.
Leupold's custom shop closed down 2-3 years ago. They only repair scopes now, they no longer change reticles, parallax, etc. Pizzes me off royaly.......
There's only like 0.00001% failures, mostly we see novices that don't know how to use our wiz-bang scopes, they're made of both diamonds and golden rings after all....
![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/101690.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/bvMH7JPq/2-DE8-C7-FC-485-C-4434-AF48-3-EC9-B012-EA3-E.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/ORCleRFh.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/9QfQ9GB9/41-A8-B2-E3-A4-FE-498-D-A522-867043801-B0-B.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/SNSS0W3P/445-C58-A3-1-D2-D-406-B-8-E2-E-00-F2051-E1-D9-F.jpg)
I must be hell on wheels. But I will admit, a redneck can tear up anything. I notice Pat uses them on sporter weight rifles. They can't be too bad. There's still a few rifles in the safe that wear them.
![[Linked Image]](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/540/668/58a.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/Y2XhP3y4/IMG-20190606-202803784-LL.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/rw8Bq4dP/B1-A11-AA6-D1-FB-4851-802-F-173-A17-B436-CB.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/mDgGjGV2/ELKCAMP18-177.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/QNgjCgtF/images-40.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/Xvxr9Rm5/IMG-1302.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/SNbrYFDS/IMG-1724.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/PkRwDW8.png)
![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/B6KQcqsB/images-42.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/xvIuU8t.png)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/Z5qr3LWf/7869b894e951db10dfdf35f12cd6e493.jpg)