gotta love it when a hair braided scheme comes together


Some old stuff but wants to share because seems not many have meed with heavys in .22hornet
Found out my little H&R .22 hornet LOVES lower velocity cast bullets compared to jacketed.
Common consensus is : .22 Hornet = slow twist barrel = need to use light bullets. Well the lee 55gr RF was the lightest cast bullet mold I have so of course that's primarily what I've been playing with . Y'all can see what I was doing in some older posts ,so far it's been doing pretty good, 1" and under at 50yd is just the norm with cast for this gun it seems , rocking around the 1700fps mark. I've pushed these same cast bullets up to 2500fps with no leading but no real need for that on this . Honestly bought this little gun for a 50-75yd varminter. Wanted something with more punch then a .22lr but less power then a .223 so. Also loved the idea of having somthing small that didn't need a lot of powder or lead and I could reload for little to nothing. If I'd did the math right I think I'll have like $50 per 300 odd rounds
Anyhow once I got the lee worked out pretty well I had some MP .227 63gr HP's I had cast last night on the bench and I thought " well why not ? What's the worst that could happen "...one of these days imma blow my face off ...but hay like I tell my gf, at least it'll have people making good jokes at the funeral And after talking to and studying guys who shoot cast bullets in competition (rifle especially.223 )it's become pretty obvious that cast bullets operate a bit different.
On the lest is the MP 63 gr .227 NLG GC HP and the right is the lss 55gr RF GC


And slight divergent in the road here but I gotta say I find it funny how stuff has changed. Recently got ahold of the Lyman #3 cast bullet hand book from like the 60's and in that their load data and talking points routinely talk about pushing cast lead bullets up to jacketed velocities 2100-2500 was pretty normal for a lot of calibers if I remember right. And it was just like an average Tuesday for them . However now it's almost taboo in the cast bullets community for a large majority it seems to dare to go past 1800 ! Very peculiar how stuff like that tends to happen if you ask me but I digress.

Normally for a 63gr bullet to work well you'd need like a 1:8 twist but with cast most guys who are shooting tiny groups are used anywhere from 1:10-1:16. So the same load of 6.2gr of lil gun ( best cast powder I've found for MY hornet so far. Burns way cleaner then 4227 and H110) tweaked my CBTO so my bullet is just about to kiss the lands ( and I have to say it's a bit of a pain with when your deal with and H&R with and Ejector 😑)







and well, it shouldn't work but it did ! Pretty happy to say the least lol ! The recovered MP bullets expanded pretty nicely in the wet dirt bank I was using as a back stop ( alloy is close to about 90% clip on wheel weights with the rest being stick on WW. Air cooled after casting and PC instead of my usual double water quenching)
Anyhow I love it when experiments work out like this 😁


[img]https://trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2023/07/full-34110-182370-fb_img_1689108363422.jpg[/img]

Scope is a SWFA 6x super sniper for this curious and yes it does has a very nice adjustment parallax down to 10yd nice mix of a nice field of view decent glass very nicely tracking turrets and pretty ... "Basic" design" lotta scope now days are just with too much or not enough fo me
[img]https://trapperman.com/forum/attach...-34110-182372-img_20230711_155309456.jpg[/img]

P.S if y'all don't have one, do yourselfes a big favor and get some of the NOE expander plug kits makes the lee universal flare die look like a joke and just makes loading cast SOOO MUCH NICER !

And what it was doing with factory jacketed ammo and wasn't much better with skem other jacketed stufd I tried hand loading


50yd all with PPU 45gr SP's

That's pretty cool, glad it works for you.

I loaded for one of those Handi's in Hornet and IIRC, they were 1-12 twist.

The gun went down the road, but it liked 55gr RCBS's and a case full of 3031.

Pardon me but I didn't see what your rate of twist is in that rifle? Very impressive (and perplexing) if it's 1-16". I have no experience with these Hornets so don't know how they're twisted.

If 1-16" there's no way it'll stabilize a long bullet like that, at slow Hornet velocities, so I'll wager it's probably 1-12 or 1-14 which would realistically allow it. If so, lucky you! If not, God, Mother Nature, and all the physics professors have some explaining to do!

Regardless, your essay is very commendable IMO.

I too much prefer to noodle around with cast versus jacketed in my Hornets but I stick with traditional weight/length bullets both gas checked and plain based - with one exception. In my four Hornets the one bullet that shines across the board is the old Lee Bator, nominal 55gr. It was/is a special design mold sold only through Midsouth not through "normal" channels, and is a very stubby RN gas checked design. It stabilizes nicely in my 1-16" guns due to its stubbiness. I found 6.0gr. 2400 to be a universally good reduced load so haven't experimented much beyond that. Squirrels hate it.

One of my Hornets is a little German kiplauf stalking rifle in 5.6x35R (think of it as a European Hornet but with .226 bullets). The little cutie has an unusual rate of twist - a gain twist that starts at around 1-14" and ends with 1-9" near as I can measure. It dotes on heavy long 60gr. bullets as well as the Lee Bator. Squirrels hate it too.


26" barrel, double set triggers, weighs 5lbs 11oz. with old Redfield 3/4" 4x scope.

Looks like 1-12:

http://www.castpics.net/subsite/Twists/default.html


No miracle then, but a very credible performance. 1-8” isn’t needed for those RNs.

In his piece on rimfire substitutes, Mule Deer found his loads with the 44gr Lyman grouped best without the GC. He generously sent me some samples, which are awaiting attention.

If you want more, Pappy, let me know. I have all the iterations of the Lyman/Ideal 225438 mold - near as I can figure it went through four changes in design over the last 100 years or so.

As for being a rimfire substitute, yep. As long as time/labor and new reality of primer costs isn't factored in. Still and all it's still cheap shooting, with costs per load: lead (basically free), powder (Bullseye at 2.0 grains) around $.01, gas check $.03, primer at $.08-.10 - shows that a fella can still load a box of 50 for $6.00-$7.00. Drop the gas check (not necessarily needed for 1000-1200fps) and it becomes $4-5. But the satisfaction from shooting dirt cheap ammo you made yourself: priceless.

Great report!

Well done, Sir!

Your results mirror my own with a number of .22 Hornets, including a Ruger #1A, a Robert Hughes & Sons baby Martini, a re-barrelled Cadet Martini & a SHT, L.E. #2 Mk IV.

My results, however, differed from yours in that H110 did much better than Lil Gun or W296 & a darn site better than 2400, W680 or Enforcer, but all that confirms, as we all know, is that each barrel is a law unto itself.

My bullets were also a bit different than yours in that I used NOE's 36, 39 & 46 grain plain based bullets, cast from hard-cast lino & lead alloy.

Very cool!

Nice shooting Wolfdog. I think your rifle is likely a 1 in 12 twist.

This is a faq list from graybeard’s.

22 Hornet 1 n 12" (original H&R pre '87 1:16"?)(or 1:9" for late production)

I am not sure which years are “late production”.

For the link to this page which answers this and other Handi questions, go here -

https://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=26264.0