My range at home can only go out to 225 yards so it’s been convenient to zero big game rifles at that yardage for several years now.

Using a few different cartridges 243,25-06,270, 7mm RM,30-06,300WM, 300WSM, 300WBY the simple ballistic software calculators, yardage drops on reticles, simple calculations etc. seem to make 3,4,& 500 yards+ more intuitive & easier. It make my Z800 reticle match my 300WBY perfectly out to 800. It did the same on a 7 mag out to 600 with. Z600 reticle.

I’ll be sighting in a friends 300 Win mag Sunday with a Burris FF2 4.5-14 for elk in CO. Switching the zero to 225 makes it perfect within 2 yards for the ballistic plex hash marks out to 600 when maxed out on 14.

My 225 yard sweet spot was happenstance not mathematical analysis but it works well with most modern calibers.

Anybody else found a great zero yardage that isn’t 100 or 200 traditional yard zero?

This summer I have been playing with the iStrelok app to setup my zeros to match my reticles. I end up with some funny zero ranges but it all comes down to how many inches high at 100 to set things to get the hashes to line up to something intuitive. I am happy with it so far.

225 yds is 205 meters which would probably be a good zero for European scopes

Zero rifles at 100 yards for an accurate baseline.

If you want a longer range zero, all that’s necessary is to dial to that yardage before you leave camp and leave it that way.

If you have a longer shot opportunity, you can still dial it

Zero at maximum point blank range.

If I'm using a single Point Of Aim reticle, I am paying attention to MPBR and zeroing accordingly. For a 35 Remington, that might be 150yds, even thought many zero at 100. For a .257wby, that might be 250yds, even though many zero at 200yds. If I am using a BDC-style reticle, like the Boone & Crockett or something similar, I look at what zero will allow my aiming points to line up well while still offering a reasonable MPBR for the center of the reticle. I've noticed that some loads that are sub 2,900fps will sometimes require a zero that's too far outside of MPBR for the aiming points to line up with the 300/400/500 yd aiming points. That's when I dial down the magnification to increase the drop subtension values for the aiming points so that I can still utilize a useful zero for the center of the reticle. As an example, my 12x Leupold VXR Ballistic Firedot needs to be set at 10x for the 300/400yd aiming points to be on with my 6.5CM, but this allow me to keep a 200yd zero at 2"-ish midrange rise, rather than using the full 12x and having to zero at maybe 230yds and having a 3"-ish midrange rise. It's just math. I do this with 3-4 rifles that aren't producing a MV near 3,000fps, which is what the reticle is set up for from the factory.

What size vertical envelope do you find satisfactory?

Depends on what you are shooting at. On a moose the H/L is large and I zero for 10" vertically with a 300 H&H.

You should try a real scope,if only for the FIRST time and to literally see the light. BDC,CDS,SFP and all of that other Bullschit,is something that would then make you cringe,if you had to suffer it again. Hint.

You are VERY obviously "shooting" Bed Time Stories and not actual POA/POI correlations,but it is cute. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

My poor unreal Zeiss Conquests have sat on rifles that killed lots of stuff. But I’ve only shot 2 animals past 500 yard both required a 2nd killing shot, nice wild Boar & big cow elk. Wind or other conditions have kept me from taking a few shots. I prefer the reticle hash marks for hunting speed vs dialing - too slow in my limited experience.

I understand holdover isn’t something everyone is comfortable with or good at but it works for me at a practiced 800 yards with the Weatherby. It’s fairly clear from the replies who feels the can’t hit something without dialing.

RetardNeeds,

I've simply yet to see a Conquest,track,hold zero or repeat,but I actually shoot. Hint.

You'd have a better grip on your lack of motor skills and gross coordination inabilities than me,that pun be intended. I'm not slighting the merits of your ruling. Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!

Arranging POA/POI via subtension is a breeze,even in a breeze,thus the impetus to forget all things BDC,CDS and SFP,which were/is plainly cited. Nobody with anything bordering a First Fhuqking Clue,says the STUPID schit you do about arranging POA/POI. Read that again. Now one more time. Let it marinate. Hint.

You are in wellllllll over your pointy head,doing The Drooling Biden. Hint.

Some folks actually shoot and "lucky" for you,you "get" to read about it. Hint.

Mechanics fhuqking matter. Hint.





Mechanics fhuqking matter. Hint.





Holster your Hurt Feelers and pull your pointy head out of your ass. Hint.



Thank me later.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

I zero at 100 yards. With virtually all modern cartridges firing pointed bullets you won't be more than 1" above, or below POA from the muzzle to 130-150 yards depending on the cartridge. That is typical range for most hunters even in western states and that flat trajectory makes it easier to thread bullets through openings in brush inside of 150 yards.

Even with a 100 yard zero most cartridges will only be 2-3" low at 200 yards and out to 300 yards you'd need virtually no hold over. Just a sliver of daylight between the horizontal crosshair and the top of a big game animal will put the bullet in the kill zone.

Much beyond 300 yards all of them (even magnum cartridges) are dropping fast enough that you really need accurate range information and a scope that will allow you to compensate for it.

Zeroing at 200-225 yards means the will be several inches high at 50-150 yards which makes a tougher shot in brush. It will mean less hold over needed at 300, but beyond that it still doesn't help anything

To my way of thinking a 200 yard zero makes more sense with a 30-30 class cartridge when you know shots will be longer than 100 yards. Or if you know that you'll never get a shot closer than 200 yards.

Yup

Got my elk hunt coming up in a few weeks. The 338F is sighted in at 270 yards.

I’ll probably use my new 280ai this year for deer, in which case my zero may be less than my 338F since my target animal and kill zone will be considerably smaller than the elk I am after with the 338F.

For my maximum hunting ranges on medium game, maybe 3-400 yards, I find sighting in with this method negates the need for putting dope on the rifle.

So you’re good with going into the field with a rifle that shoots 4 1/2” high at 150 yards?

The ONLY reason this schit is soooooooo fhuqking FUNNY,is simply because you gals are doing your BEST. Hint. LAUGHING!

Coming full circle,to a scope that actually fhuqking works. 8" RPM Brux 6-06 here with 105's crowding 3400fps and a 250yd zero. Looking through the scope and it's meaningful reticle,will get it well past the 1200yd DOPE in ocular. Read that again. Now one more time. Let it marinate. Hint.



DOPE on stock,will thread needles from 10yds,to Transonic Slip. Hint.

The sheer and utter CLUELESSNESS of you Boobs,is simply fhuqking AMAZING! Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

I used my 30-06 for years elk hunting sighted 4 inches high at a hundred yards and did a lot of rock shooting to make sure I knew where it hit. My scope back then was a 4 power Leupold with the non click adjustments. I could by looking at the distance between the cross hairs and the post of the duplex reticle pretty close to how far away an animal was. I had excellent eyesight back then and made many good shots out to 450 yards. Oddly though most shots were under 300 yards even out in the wide open.

I’ve never hunted in the Southeast but my buddy who comes elk hunting in CO from Mississippi said it was difficult for his hunting crowd to understand distances in the wide open sage & oak brush we are in most of the time where 400 yard canyons are the norm.

Tossing out near & far our average is around 300 yards for 30 or so elk a long of 670 yards for neighbors camp so there are long shots out there not just 100-150. Some of this shots allow plenty of set up time, some don’t.

Not sure what cartridges would be 4” high with a225 zero at 100-125 mine are all under 2” high & that doesn’t bother me.

For years, going back to 1980, I sighted in my 7mag and 160 partitions 3" high at 100yds, and topped it with a Leupold vari X with duplex reticle. I knew the subtensions out to approx 350 yds. I can't begin to count the number of animals I killed with that rig, including about 75 aoudad sheep culls that landowner friends absolutely hated.

Currently have a 7-08 that runs 140 AB's 2820fps, and it's topped with a Leupold VX3 with B&C reticle. It's sighted in 2" high at 100, dead on at 220, and the reticle subtends perfectly at 300, 400, 450, and 500 yds holds. Once again, lost count of the number of big game animals whacked with it. Killing stuff ain't that hard.

225 yards for my 284.

Man, this guy seems pretty confident with all of his hints, but I have no idea what the hell he's even trying to say. I'm assuming that since everyone else is totally ignoring him that I'm violating some sort of unspoken rule by even acknowledging him, so, sorry for that.

What can Texan say about The Outdoors,other than "Pull!" as victims ride the fence line. Hint.

Same thing about the Bitchigan Dumbfhuqks and their version of The Outdoors. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

MPBR 6" (+/-3").

.270 Win./150 gr.: 230 yds. - MPBR: 270 yds (Scoped)
6.5x55mm/140 gr.: 225 yds. - MPBR: 265 yds (Aperture sights)




GR

I didn't even mention my cock.

#uncanny
#thanksfornoticing

I dont know the ballistics of a 338, however if you know you are 150 yds, and you should be able to judge that w/o a gadget then you may choose to make a adjustment. Its easy and quick without twirling & fuggin around. Yer not looking for a bull on a piece of paper. If one is familiar and experienced with their rifle, holding slightly low at that range is no big deal. Even if you held on and were 4.5" high its dead.

Yep……been zeroing (cartridges with mv’s around 3000 fps) at 300 yards for many years. With our rifles, we can easily “hold on hair” out to 400 yards. The only caveat is you can easily (if you have your head up your a$$) shoot over a small animal (Fox, coyote, ect.) at the peak of the mid-range trajectory, which happens at around 170 ish yards! However, these rifles are for big game…..if you can’t control your emotions and make an adjustment on meaningless shots (coyotes, ect) you should stick to video games! memtb

Or instead of correcting for short-to-mid-range shots, you can zero at a closer distance and make the correction on longer shots, where you have more time to think and get stable. Building the largest error into shots at the 170 yard range where many shots are taken is inviting a miss. With POI about 4” high at 100 yards and 4.5-5” above POA at 170 (assuming a decently aerodynamic bullet at 3000 fps MV), even a center-mass hold means that you’re close to the top edge of the vitals, and any unexpected wobble or animal movement takes the bullet out of vitals.

Obviously it’s been working for you for years, so I’m not saying you should change, but I wouldn’t advocate for a 300 yard zero for hunting purposes. Back in the day, when we didn’t have many options, I used to zero 3” high at 100 yards and use the MPBR, center-mass-hold approach (using Duplex reticle thickness transitions for hitting out to about 500 yards), but now we have more effective ways of arranging POA/POI intersection. Using a PBR of 200-250 yards can still make sense for quick, reasonably close shots, but now we have effective ways of correcting for distances beyond that that don’t require the bullet to be 4-5” above LOS at sub-200 yard distances.

I have never zeroed at more than 100 yards, .06 .308, 7 mag. except my antelope rifle of 6.5 Swede. Probably 90% of elk are shot within 200 yards and most at 100 or less. . All off my rifles I shoot out to 300 yards to verify the drop.

The last bull I killed in 2018 was about 350yards. Bang flop. The fellows in the next camp helped me unload my elk at camp,so I took them in the next day, set the father on a rock and told him to watch a particular area. I went on the pack out the front quarters of my elk. At 7:30, I hear about 10 shots from that location. Sure enough a few cows came out and a bull.This guy was turret twirler and he set his scope for 700 yards. It was probably 400. I know because I have shot a few elk there. He did clip the bull maybe once as we found blood but it only lasted about 200 yards. He never found the bull. Another guy missed another a bull year or so before that because his range finder said 500 yards, but he was shooting steeply up hill. More like 300. He blew them all above the bull. I have seen this happen with people I took hunting at least a half dozen times.Yep,one was using that MPB.

It has been my experience that most people coming from the flat lands cannot estimate distances and don't remember to compensate for uphill and downhill shots. They may know about it but forget it in the heat of the moment.. For the longer range shots, most have enough time to range them and compensate for the distances by knowing their rifle's trajectory. Too many hunters have become addicted to technology and have not learned the basics of shooting at distances close or far. IMHO

As comfortable as you asking stupid questions, why are you questioning his methods?

Dammit, go find a plum to suck on

Hah! What he said. Elk hunting with a 4 inch high at 100 yards zero I could hold center chest past 300 yards and still on hair at 400. If it was farther than that I would hold where I could just see some light between the elk and the crosshairs. If it were too far for that hold I would get closer, usually did anyway. And no I didn't shoot coyotes with it sighted that way just elk. Deer or antelope hunting I would run 150 grain bullets and sight in 3 inches high. The number of game animals I took with that 30-06 is impressive, more than many people take in a lifetime with all their rifles.

Hey dumbphuqk, if you may notice, I wasn't fuqking talking to you, you stupid pillow-biting cocksuqker.

Using "yards" with firearms...good for old school or beginners.

Valid points and well taken!

However, as you mentioned, it’s worked for years and has become second nature to compensate! While we may be a bit high at the mid range, easily within the kill zone on most big game….a 200 yard zero puts us near 18” low at 400. We find being just a bit high at mid range is easier to work with than dealing with 18” low @ 400! But, that’s just me! memtb

I zero at 200-220. Shooting a 300 win and 6mm Remington. The 6 has shot deer antelope wolf and lion but it’s main purpose is coyotes. And I want to be as close as I can get for a hold on hair without dialing for as far out as I can. Most of them are 200-300 yards.

I don’t understand why I’d need to zero at 100 for an accurate baseline. My zero still provides an accurate baseline.

We all hunt in different country but 130-150 yards is not a typical shot here. Not saying we always have long range shots, but I’d say 200-400 is more typical than the 130-150.

As far as big game goes I shoot way more elk than anything else. A lot of the elk we shoot are late season and for sure in the 3-400 yard range. I don’t have a dialing scope on the 300. There’s no way I’m using a 100 zero.

A 100 yard zero is standard baseline.

You ZERO your rifle at 100 yards so it is DEAD ON, TITS with regard to elevation and WINDAGE. Zeroing at 100 negates or minimizes wind effects and your groups will be smaller making the ZERO as dead on as possible.

Set your elevation turret to -0- and your windage turret to -0- after your POA is exactly the POI at 100 yards

At this point, if you’re not a complete moron and have done your homework verifying your load’s drop data, you can then dial to the ZERO you wish to have when you walk out of camp and you can also accurately dial from your 100 yard baseline for long range opportunities

Post up some targets and game animals or STFU

Assuming that everyone has a rangefinder and/or the time to use it……or have scopes with readily adjustable turrets.

In the real world it’s not always as you suggest or believe it to be!

Also to be clear, we sight in @ 100, then move to 300 for the zero. Wind is not an issue…..we don’t sight in with the wind blowing? So simple a cave man can do it! 😉 memtb

I’m still using an antique non dialing scope on the one rifle. I’ll keep ZEROing at 200-220 and keep killing the snot out of the elk up here.

On the dialing scope I can ZERO it pretty well at 220 thanks. That gives me a better ZERO for shooting called coyotes to 300ish without any dialing. Then past that I’ll dial to what my rangefinder tells me above my 220 ZERO!

Everyone gets your sighting in procedure. I’m still wondering why it’d be better in a real world hunting scenario.

I do exactly this, and tweak it a bit after firing extended ranges, discovering that it won't change my 300yd impact enough to be concerned with, but will line up with my 400 or 500yd hash mark on my BDC.

Totally good with it. I shoot that rifle a lot. It’s my dedicated elk rig now. So, if a shot at 100 yards presents itself, I can either aim right where I want, or if I really care that much, I can aim just a smidge low. That’s really not any different than holding a smidge high if I’m beyond my point blank range. What is really nice about the system is that I don’t have to fiddle with my scope. My elk experience is little, (two hunts, one dead bull, OTC in unit 270 in Montana). But I still use the same type of setup for deer and pigs here in Texas; I just have a smaller target, so therefore, a closer zero distance. If you like spinning turrets, more power to you. But considering that I’m limiting my shots to 3-400 yards, the system I’m using suits me fine.

Now for BigStick, I wouldn’t pay him much attention. He may be able to shoot a long ways and that’s a good thing, because we all know his fat ass isn’t humping any mountains or packing any more weight than is already attached to his glutinous frame.

That’s all well and good until your scope [bleep] the bed. The 338F Montana I mentioned in my earlier post wears a Leupold FX-II 4x28mm and I can hit well with it as far as I’d care to shoot at an elk. Not saying anything is wrong with your system, but it does allow more room for mechanical failure.

Or you can be like BigStick. Ie-buy a bunch of rifles, top them with $2k scopes and then throw them in the river to take a picture because your too fat to actually go where animals are.

Exactly right, John.
I killed my first bull last fall. We (the elk and I) surprised each other when I first saw him standing in an open field with a couple dozen cows. I shot him, kneeling, right at 200 yards. When I dropped to a knee and sighted in on him, he was on the other side of a slight rise and the grass in the field went up to the midline of his body as seen through my scope. I held the crosshairs right on top of the grass and squeezed. At 200 yards my load is still about 4” high with that 270 yard zero. Even with a high hold, I still dropped the bull with the 180 grain accubond punching through the top of both shoulder blades. The bull dropped at the shot and I closed the gap quickly and finished him with one through the neck. That’s the beauty of the MPBR method; simplicity and it works.

Jennifer,

NOTHING is fhuqking funnier,than a Crying Texan trying to "talk" rifles...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Fortunately for you,Imitation and Pretend are free,so even you can "afford" to "contribute",with your Professional Victim status and Hurt Feeler reports. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

Cheryl,

You obviously are a complete Fuqking moron. I see that you are an NSCA Life Member. Join again because it will take two lifetimes for you to shoot your way out of E class.

It works once you know your equipment and distance, I dont have a twirler on my old rifle. In fact no adjustment on the scope, its all in the base. Works fine, gun goes bang, something always falls over. Put it in the freezer.

succinct!

Bigshit,
Where am I pretending? Is it the part where you throw rifles in the river or that you’re too fat to hump up and down a mountain?

Jennifer,

Your High Fenced High Pitch Nasal Whine,sure is soothing...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Do you scream "Get some!",as you peer over the haybale with your pencil neck,pointy head and crossed-eyes,to get a good look at the feeder? Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

Seems like anything in the 2800fps+ range zeroed at 200-225 would give easy hits to 275 without any real thought to trajectory, up or down. This is not a bad plan and would cover most hunting. You long range guys know what works for you so carry on.

Very interesting. I’ve always liked zeroing most rifles about 2-2.5” high at 100y which works out to about a 225 yard zero. I’ve found it to work out extremely well.

I've done a 200 m (220 yd) zero more than a few times. It's pretty much 1" high at 200 yds and puts you -2" at 250 and -5 to -6" at 300 yds.

250 yard zero on my .300 Weatherby hurling 168 TTSX at 3,300 fps. No knobs, no fiddle f**king with scope. Aim, shoot.

I have as many zeros as loads. As for myself, each of my rifles is tasked with the job I ask it to do - I’m not a broad brush painter with cartridges & enjoy each one for what they offer - or don’t.

Thanks for the replies - about what I expected, common for experienced hunters who appreciate simplicity & speed in the field. Frustrating for the “you must twist knobs or it doesn’t count” crowd.

I understand woods hunters who never see 200 yard shots don’t see the benefit & the other extreme who want 900 yard shot capable dialing don’t see any advantage to speed Of getting on target.

Not exactly. It's possible to use a PBR approach and dial for anything further.

Some of the guys are saying you can simply zero at 100, slip the turrets, and then dial to 225 and leave it there while hunting. Dial again for longer shots, if needed.

I don’t know how may times it needs to be explained, but that’s the way to do it.

To put it as nicely as possible, Most here have no idea how their equipment functions

😁

And just imagine if you hunt with scope that doesn't have knobs and just a crosshair, then MPBR is where its at, it doesn't get any simpler than that.

Your assumption that hunters are carrying a scope with dials is exactly what I’m referring to in my response. I never take an exposed turret scope big game hunting. Too exposed to brush & crap

The majority of hunters will never dial a scope to shoot big game. If they shoot farther than 300 yards it’s a once in a lifetime shot. They have 3-9 set & forget scopes & kill stuff every year.

I can use simple holdover & a duplex at 500 yards on an elk or deer chest with any of my big game rifles- as far as I need & practice is all it takes. My current set-up is a Zeiss HD5 3-15x50 with a Z800 reticle on a 300 Weatherby with 180 grain TTSX - no dialing necessary the hash marks are perfect to 800 yards. Adjust for wind & shoot is as fast as it gets.

Yeah, it gets a lot simpler:


There's no guessing when you use a good reticle with reference points. Like rcamuglia said, there are a lot of guys that don't know how to use their equipment. I see it all the time. There is beauty in keeping schidt simple. MPBR went the way of the dodo bird. A simple experiment out to even a measly 400 yards would prove a lot of guys using that method can't keep their bullets in the kill zone of a deer more than 60% of the time. Resulting in a lot of wounded animals or missed shots. You guys have no reference points, just wild azzed hold over/guesses..

You are full of yourself, for what I hunt with that rifle it works, I know it's and my limitations and hunt accordingly. To think you somehow know something special is presumptuous and inaccurate.

Just more chest pounding, use what work's for you and quit criticizing others. MPBR is a very effective way to hunt for 90% of the hunters that are just wanting to fill their freezers.

To each his ownus, back off jackazz

What's your wind reference there? Wind is always the "guess" for me....but I try to make it an educated guess with a reference point.

What Jordan stated is what I do. 100 yard zero as 90% of my shots are in the woods. Later in the day I may hunt an ag field with 800 yard possibilities where I dial to a 200 yard zero then dial as needed for distance after that with a reticle that has measured references on the horizontal to hold wind. A cheat sheet on the stock with 10 mph windage holds is a BIG help for me.

If someone is using a reticle alone I think it's really hard to beat NF's Velocity 600 reticle with either the low/med/high reticle matched to your cartridge/bullet. It's not perfect, but it's about the closest simple reticle for holding elevation and windage that I've found......but I still prefer to dial elevation and hold wind on a generic mil reticle.

Everyone only has to please themselves so use what meets your preferences and needs.

I didn’t make such an assumption. If you re-read my post, my point was that it’s possible to have the best of both worlds. Dialling for a 200-yard shot while carrying the rifle in a hunting situation certainly doesn’t need to be “frustrating” for guys who like to be proficient and prepared to take longer shots, and there certainly can be a speed advantage for closer shot opportunities on relatively large targets.


That’s up to you, but I’ve hauled exposed turrets for a lot of miles and hours through gnarly brush and thick forests, without a single problem. With even a modicum of care, it’s a non-issue with a decent scope. The same type of care that most people give to protect their lenses and muzzle from getting crap in them.

I agree here, to a certain extent, though I’ll point out a couple of things. First, there are several ways to get the job done out to 500 yards, including peep sights and BP loads, but some are more effective and less likely to lead to wounding or misses than others.

Second, you mention adjusting for wind, but with the vast majority of BDC reticles it’s a fallacy to think that you’re “perfect to 800 yards” without precise windage hashmarks built into the reticle for shooting at those distance that enable you to carefully hold for any wind. In reality, if high hit probabilities are desired, the hunter is limited to a few hundred yards in any sort of wind, or taking longer shots only in virtually windless conditions. That is despite having practiced shooting in the wind enough to know how to compensate for it, simply because of a lack of tools that are precise enough to allow that compensation at longer distances.

+1

Agree about the lack of wind compensation options on most BDC reticles, and even on most Christmas-tree reticles.

I'm a simple guy... ask anyone who knows me..... and not so seldom wrong... Sue me. 225 yard approximate zero, is just about perfect for me- but I'm not picky. a little more or less gets the job done just fine. That's pretty much a point-blank hold out to 300 yards or so, and that is where most of my kill shots fall into. Caribou stretch it a might, maybe.

Good enough to get the job done is good enough for me, but, obviously, and no diss intended - not for many of you. You have different situations/needs.

My rifles are beat-up working pieces and are scoped with Leupold and (gasp) Tasco. No turrets, or fancy formulas, etc. - just "Duplex" hairs without hash marks. Which were helpful before I bought a range finder. And after. And for close-in quick-shots. learn how best used...

If i did have hash marked scopes, I would field test/ memorize them at appropriate ranges, (probably not wind conditions for my hunting, but that ain't a bad idea either). for you anal types factor in bullet weights used.

I prefer 1.5 MOA or less accuracy , but I might go with 2 MOA if I like the piece. A good rest is more important, than sub MOA, IMO. But I'll work on it for best accuracy, likely getting it down to 1.5 MOA or less. Or not and limit my range somewhat - again depending on animal size, gun, confidence level.

If the center of the group goes 2.0 to 2.5 high (or a tad more) at 100, I'm good to go, for the animals I have hunted (sheep, goats, caribou, moose, bear, one elk, one mule deer), and that's where I sight all my rifles, regardless of caliber. I'm not too picky about that, or any of the esoteric things above - no doubt putting me at the top of BS's "clueless dumphuque" list. No argument there. I just don't care. It's worked for over 50 years - i see no need to change anything for my hunting purposes. I am - um - "economically minded" - and am just not going to burn up another 5-15 rounds adjusting POA to get that last 1/4to1/2 inch out of the "perfect"sight in.

Caveate - I'm not trying to shoot the eyes out of PDs at 300 yards, or whanging away at elk way out there - but that's just me. If that's your thing, you do indeed need all the help, precision (not a bad thing) , and likely some luck, that you can get - I would too, if I did, but I don't. Like I said, I like simple. Powder burn range is my preference, of course. Personal preference, and you are welcome to do your thing.

For over 50 years, I've sighted in my rifles 2.0 - 2.5 at 100, and gone hunting, keeping in mind that all of my rifles, regardless of caliber, will go close enough to the 7/8- 21/24/ 45-48 inch drops at 300,400,500. I just keep in mind 8/24/48. Simple, and "close enough" for most big game calibers, within 500 yards, on the animals I hunt. Easy to remember, and I don't shoot beyond 500. I translate this in the field (study up beforehand) into "average" body depths - i.e., approximate back line, half above, full body depth at 300,400,500. That would be for caribou. Maybe some fudging for percieved size., allowing for good range estimation or known. It's always worked, for something between 75 and 90 caribou - average distance probably pushing 300 yards, and some out to nearly 500.

Depending on the species and sex of the animal, of course. A cow caribou is nowhere as deep as a big bull of course. The advantage is that (if you have studied up and remember all this stuff), it is an almost instantaneous calculation - more time is all to the good.

I'm fairly chitty at running shots at anything unless under 100 yards, if you must know, so I try to avoid those. The last one I did was on a big bull caribou, fast-stepping (not exactly running) into a 20mph headwind (which I forgot about), at about 360 yards (estimated at the shot from two pre- ranged trees, and I forgot to back-range him from kill site to blind). I lead him a tad too much, putting the first one into his brisket. A foot or bit more back and I would have taken out his heart.(MOA cheap Rem 770- - with 6x40 Tasco, 150 gr Corelokts, so there!). I did better on the second shot, as he was more slowly hobbling away after he got up again.... first, slow 'em down... .






I did sight in my '98 (inch groups at 300) at 300 for caribou hunting in the Arctic, , and found that counter-intuitive (maybe due to my decades of 200-250 sight-ins ) . IIRC, it was 17" high at 100 yards. I'd have to look at a ballistic chart again, but I know I over-shot one close-in caribou when I forgot. With the first shot. I then held at the bottom of his chest and center-punched him, a yearling bull.

It's back to 2.5 with 150 gr. loads. Pretty certain I can go with 180's or 200's without changing the elevation. Maybe. I might even try it at the range some day...

I pretty much ignore wind for shooting at my comfort ranges (YMMV at longer than 500, or in strong wind, at small targets)- if I even think of it, which I usually don't. It's burned me a couple times in very strong winds, but without ever losing an animal. Shooting the pecker-tip off an animal is embarrassing, for sure. (Pre range-finder - I mis judged distance also).

All this overly verbose stuff above is to say, do whatever works for you under your conditions/hunting/species. There is no "right way", overall.

Don't fix what ain't broke, if it works for you. Over-thinking doesn't have a good rep.

Under-thinking tends to suck too. BTDT

As Tom S said in Quigley, " I said I never had much use for it, not that I didn't know how".

Don’t disagree with your method & am working on a new setup with lighted reticle, hash marks & dial for next year deer on my old be 7mm. I’m intimately familiar with its trajectory and It will be even more capable.

Wind on the other hand is not controllable or predictable in hunting situations after a certain speed. I’ve practiced in 10-15 mph gusts & killed in similar wind conditions out to 500 yards but over 20-25 mph 300+ yards my adjustment is - Don’t shoot.

I hunt in a lot of different terrain. My rifles that I use in thick timber, I'm not going to bother with exposed turrets or busy reticles. There aren't opportunities for shots beyond 300 yards, therefore, not much of a point. But I have places I hunt with large fields, meadows, and clear cuts. I'll take a more potent cartridge and something with more capability for that type of hunting. I've taken two animals this year that required dialing; 670 meters and 460 meters. In the past I've killed many animals at 600+ and varmints out to 1200. Though, the vast majority of animals I've killed have been in thick timber under 200 yards. Hell, most have been with archery equipment. I'm no stranger to dialing, but not every hunter in every situation needs to have his gear setup for it.

On the flip, if I had one rifle, it would be setup to be capable as far as possible within reason. These days there are locking elevation turrets and capped windage. Bumping them out of adjustment in brush is no longer a valid excuse. If you're still living in 2005, buy some tape. Perform a quick glance before you squeeze the bang switch.

As you're not dialing-in with your scope, a 225 yd zero is ok for short range but for cartridges such as the .270 Win the traditional way would be to sight in 3" high at 100 yards on deer size game to maximize the cartridge's trajectory without shooting over the top of the vital zone of the animal. On a deer size animal you can easily hold dead on to 300 yards and only be low by maybe 2" which would still be in the vital zone. At 350 yards you can either hold on the backbone of a deer size animal or use the stadia lines on the scope. Its sometimes the case that you shoot at around 300 yards on a moving animal in which case you won't want your scope on 14 power, and it will be too confusing and you won't have time trying to work out what distance the stadia line corresponds to at a different magnification, assuming the reticle is in the second focul plane. 3" at 100 yards is about 275 yards zero at 3000 fps and a 140 grain projectile in the .270. Most hunters do not shoot much over 350 yards and if your friend needs you to sight in his rifle then he probably shouldn't be shooting over 350 yards anyway.

Not everyone has a range at their house so I’m happy to assist my friend with both mounting & sighting in his new scope. He isn’t a new hunter & not a great shot but does hunt elk every year so my help with this process may save a lost wounded animal. Part of my old guy giving back is helping new hunters shoot better - it’s worked for several young men & women who fill their freezers regularly now. Expect I’ll still have fresh venison even when I’m too old to hunt.

MPBR works fine and is lightning fast but from years of hunting I think in approximately 200 yard zero with 6, 16, 36” drops from pre-dial & hash mark days so everything at 360 & in is point & shoot on an elk. Cranking up to 15 as you point out makes running shots at 300 too challenging so my typical magnification is 5X outside of thick woods. Hash marks aren’t part of my process under 400 which covers about 95% of shots I would take.

Simple is best for me - sadly “don’t think meat you only hurt the ball club” is necessary when my adrenaline takes over & my focus shrinks to 10’ at 100 yards. So cranking magnification is still within my wheelhouse but dialing seems way too slow, cumbersome & prone to error for me.

I only have one rifle left that I consider long range-ish that still wears a duplex these days, but it works. It's a plain jane, late-model 257Wby SS Vanguard with a resprung HACT factory trigger. Makes a good loaner with its 250yd zero (115gr at 3,350fps). I'm about 3 inches low at 300yds and roughly 6 inches low at 350. The picket of the duplex is on at 400 (3-9x40 VX-2) and 450 is the picket plus about 6 inches. Some of those figures are rounded an inch or so here and there, but it's close enough for big game vitals and easy to remember.

When I rebarrel my .270WSM with an 8 twist, I should be able to zero at around 300 yards using the 140 grain SuperBulldozer at 3150 fps. At 350 yards I should still be able to aim dead on as drop is slightly over 4". I can start using the stadia lines at about 370 yards. Windage is just over 7" at 400 yards in a 10 mph cross-wind, which is where the real advantage over using 130's lie. This allows me to have a portable 7lb rifle including scope with moderate recoil that is very quick to acquire targets at the distances I shoot to.

You don't mind a midrange rise of nearly 4 inches? Some probably don't, but I'd perhaps flub some 175-200yd shots on smaller targets like coyotes or small pigs, as all my years with centerfires have me automatically holding dead on at those ranges when an animal steps out.

The 3.9" high is acceptable for big game and that is what the rifle is used for currently, especially when I think shots may be well past 300 yards. For the smaller game and smaller deer, I use an improved 6mm sighted in 2" high at 100 yards. For the very large game I use a .338 with 225's at 2950 fps sighted in 3" high at 100 yards. It isn't that difficult to hold marginally low (e.g. at the bottom of the vital zone) on shots around 150 to 200 yards if need be.

I agree that it's not difficult to hold a bit low at midrange but I've found it sometimes hard for me to remember to do in the heat of the moment if things are happening fast and my crosshairs are hitting the vitals. If I'd started out that way, it might be easier. The 3-3.5" high at 100yds thing sounded good for me years ago but it just didn't work out, so I went back to a 2.5"-ish midrange rise. Whatever works.....

It happens frequently that I aim for about 1/3 from the bottom for a shoulder shot and hit 2/3 up for a high "shoulder" shot on deer size game at mid-range shots. What you are doing is correct when you are shooting smaller species as well, I use a different gun in those circumstances that's sighted in with a smaller (smaller vital zone) MPBR. I do have to consciously remember to hold a bit low on mid-range shots on those occasions when I am shooting small game with a big game rifle.

Helped my friend yesterday with a new Burris 4-14x42 & his daughter as well. It took 7 shots to have him 1/4” off the small center dot at 225 yards with his Browning 300 Win Mag & he nailed the 500 yard elk rock first try. Easily the best I’ve seen him shoot.

His daughter shoots an old 721 in 30-06 we put the same scope on hers it took much longer & I had to shoot to verify because she is so inconsistent on the trigger. She is now 225-300 capable for elk which was not the case with her old vortex.

She also hit the rock at 500 and felt much more confident in her shooting but I told her keep it under 300 on anything not wounded & she plans to do that.

I’m hoping they have a successful elk hunt & feel like they have a much better shot than with their previous scopes that were difficult to see out of in good light. They don’t have to think until after 300 so that should improve their chances as well.

The average hunter does not want to spin turrets or shoot 800 yds. The old 2" high at 100 yd or dead on at 200 - 225 yds has worked for many years. You so called long range hunters/ shooters need to get over yourselves.

There was once in olden times before hashmarks and clicky twisty scopes there was a tribe of riflemen in the hills of Jefferson ( Appalachia West). These backward rustics shot crosshair reticles accurately to 500 and beyond. They were poorly armed, mostly .30-06's, shooting home brewed ammo resulting in launching .430 to .450 bc slugs at around 2,800 (Barsness' load, hmm) Just so happens, the lowly Hornady 165 Interlock BT fit the bill close enough. The rustics sighted their primitive rifles to zero at 35 and 185 yds. The result of this strange practice that from muzzle to 200 yds you were never more than 1.5 in high.
Going on out to 200yds (we'd call it bracket 1)...so what was our drop? We'd square the bracket number..1X1=1". Moving out to 250yds was bracket 2...so our drop at 250 was:2X2=4". Moving out to 300, bracket 3, so:3X3=9". At each 50 yd interval a bracket or station, whatever is assigned, square the bracket number to get your drop. 500 yd ?...ok, bracket 7, 7X7=49". And because of the elevations found in Jefferson, 3,000 to 8,000 ft which flattens the curve a little, the rustics got pretty consistent hits on 1.5 moa steel targets out to 700. Imagine the simplicity.

I'm the boring guy that shoots a mark v in '06 with a 10 power scope. I don't spin turrets or really care to. " Hey wait til I can range you and dial my scope then I'll be ready". Don't really care what people do as it don't matter to me but if you have a scoped out rifle and can't get within 400 yards of the animal then, then I guess it ain't hunting at that point. Put that dude 2 inches high at 100 yards and go get meat. Just my opinion.

I don't pick a zero - I let it fall where it may because I tend to decide the max rise above line of sight. I normally keep it at or below 3 inches. Just happens to correlate between 225 and 260/270 depending on bullet initial velocity and BC.

Why 3 inches? Most deer have a 6-7 inch vital area. A max 3 inch rise above line of sight lands the bullet inside of a 6-7 inch vital area without thinking about it. Basically keeping max midrange rise to 3 inches allows dead on holds out to 250 to 300 yards for most cartridges I shoot. I'm way too simple to do much thinking when things show up close-ish and I don't have time to think through trajectory variables.

I don’t like to dial and I prefer to brag about getting closer rather than the distance at which I was forced to shoot because my skill at stalking was or is lacking.

Formerly I zeroed 3” up at 100 but with experience learned the midrange was just too high.

Now I fiddle with a trajectory calculator to find the point at which midrange rise is in the range of 2-2.25” and then set zero for the closest 25 yard mark primarily so I can print numbers using 25 yard increments. The other method is to determine 300 yard drop of say 4 or 5” and then work backwards into zero range. Usually results in max midrange of around 170 yards and zero around 225. Am assuming MV of 2750-3000.

No need to F around dialing within 300 yards or so. Most game is taken within that range unless the hunter is unskilled or just lazy.

One thing is obvious: you aren't allowed to come to your own conclusions regarding setting up your guns. There is a single best way, and if you don't do it that way, you're not only wrong, you're the worst kind of stupid, worthy only of derision.

I missed more close shots when I set the rig up 4 long shots, then a 100 yard zero
On long shots,


I tend to go 200 yds or less on a zero

Maybe, but think it also obvious most don`t give a danm what others think. If it works for them, it works.

I zero at 200 yards and shoot enough that I'm very familiar with what that rifle/bullet combo is doing out to 500 (on some rifles that may be a far lower range) via a ballistic program (Shooter) and verified shots on steel. On my long range rifles, I carry a dope card that gives me verified wind and come ups out to 1200 yards. I shoot regularly out to 1200 yards with the long range rifles and out to 2-500 depending on the rifle with my others. The open sight levers get shot out to 200 and are zeroed at 100, the scoped centerfires out to 500. To be totally honest, since having some custom long range rifles built, I rarely hunt with the factory rifles that I own.

I've seen a few of the guys posting here comment that they are so damm good that they can always stalk closer and get the shot that they want. Having seen pictures of a few of them, I wonder how they are covering 4-700 yards of open ground, without being busted, in less than 5 minutes, as the animal slowly grazes away or the light fades, but maybe they're a lot more athletic than they look. Personally, I like to have the proper tool and the skill to use it, so that I can take that animal instead of telling stories about the big one that got away.

You are right.

If you are far enough you can always stalk closer, and it is not a matter of being more athletic but of being less impatient, more skilled as a stalker, and in less dire need of drawing blood, getting another set of horns on the wall or more meat on the fridge.

It probably has a lot to do with age and experience, and maybe gentlemanship too.

Agree with chamois on this one. Its hard enough to get set up and take a shot at 700 yards in a perfect scenario. Throw a little wind in there, maybe some low light, and hit the vitals on a deer or antelope at 700 is pretty tough. I know people practice with their rifle and all that. I think and it's just my opinion, the animal deserves better than that. Plus if it's a do or die deal I would have to be damn sure of the animal I'm shooting at is the buck or bull I want. At 700, heck at 400 a guy can be fooled with antler. I mean Jack O'Connor shot world class animals with a dang 4 power scope.

Agreed. If guys want to pass up opportunities based on their idea of what "hunting" is, then so be it. But it's not their prerogative to impose that ideology on others, like us, who prefer to have the option of taking advantage of opportunities that are within the limitations of the equipment we're using. Opportunities have gotten harder and harder to come by around these parts - tags are harder to draw, there's more hunting pressure, CWD culling, increased predation, etc. - so I'm less and less keen to pass on good opportunities that come.

Do not disagree with this either. Always fun to make a long bomb, but what I'm saying is the majority of the want to be long range hunters and their dials just can't physically make these type of shots happen. We are talking alot of factors in a shot like that. Different strokes for different folks.

But I agree with the argument to zero at 100.

Then adjust accordingly.

One it checks your scope.

Two it allows a closer zero to eliminate wind etc. error.

Three it’s universal.

The one suggestion to the OP is have the owner of the rifle you are sighting in for there to shoot also.

It’s a life skill rifleman should have.

And most missed deals are operator error, not the rifle/scope/ bullet

Good luck

Merry Christmas

I used to zero at 250
I was about 3" high at 100


These day I zero at 100 and twist the rest

Pretty much this.

I can zero at about any range and then dial to most any range.

One needs a good scope, a good rifle, and good data.

But those thing are easy to get even if a few here struggle with one or more pieces.

Merry Christmas.

I have a few that I do 200 yard zero’s on but for the rifles that I use in a lot of varying conditions (huge altitude and atmosphere changes) I set up with 100 yard zeros and use scopes that I know will dial. That way it’s more precise regardless of the location and atmospherics.

I need to start working with zero angle as supposed to distance and that should eliminate even more error when traveling

As I said before the average hunter does not want to spin turrets. I have been successfully hunting for over 50 years and guiding for almost 30 and I don't want to spin turrets either. Everyone has to decide how they want their hunting rifle sighted in.
Whatever works for the individual to kill game cleanly and effectively is alright by me.

I understand and respect your point, Jordan. It is just that what works for you might not work for me. But no, I do not try to impose anything to you nor to anybody... how could I?

I do not think that enjoying a good stalk more than a long shot is "ideology" of any kind, that is all, just a personal preference.

Maybe I am wrong, but I understand the term ideology like having more to do with a set of ideas that an economic or political or religious system is based on.

Now you're catching on!

I appreciate that, but there are many who would impose their ideas on others, if they could. Not saying you’re one of them.

I say ideology because guys have various philosophical beliefs about what hunting is and what it means.

I zero at 100 and hold over when needed. The longest shot I can see is 400 where I hunt. Most places I can see 300 or less. I do have a rangefinder and range some points at the stands so I know how to set up my shots before I shoot. Shot one at 350 this year and 2 at 250 and that is not the norm for me.
I also shoot some close in the woods and have to shoot through holes in between brush and.limbs. What I do works well for me and where I hunt. I don't mind if other people have a different preference that works for them.

I'm just going to keep quiet about the Kentucky holdover and windage I used for years and years with Leupold duplex scopes, sighted in 260-280 yards and killed several big critters >400 yds. There were rangefinders involved. Crappy rangefinders. And homemade shooting sticks. I'd hate to have to justify all that to the 5-Figure Gear Crew.

You are awesome.

im the dumbest guy here, long time ago i was having priemer reticles put dots in my leupolds before it was the rage,

always used a 300 yard zero with 7mag or 8mm mag or my 300stw, 9in and 24in drops at 400 and 500 yards ,,,, didnt need to shoot any farther until i got a good rangefinder, couldnt guess yardage good enough at 500 even, lots of 2nd round kill shots after shooting high the first shot,,,,

still use a 300 yard zero, old habits i guess, even with a turret or a mil reticle,,,, i got a lot of learning to do,,,,even though i take anywere from 4 to 10 head of big game every year in multiple states

JOC killed more stuff than any of us.

His "rule of 3" will still work for 99.99% of big game killed by HUNTERS.

Have used 200 for years. For nearly any relatively fast modern rifle drops are very easy. ~8" @ 300yds, and ~24" @ 400yds. Quick and Easy hold overs for a mule deer or elk - no matter what power scope you have or what it's set on....

I always used to use the O'connor and Page plus 3 at a hundred without a problem. One day I missed a forkhorn at about 200 yards. A relatively new Remington 70 in 7RM. Hot load 160 Sierra about 3 1/4 inches high at 100 yards. Three things went wrong. I could only see the top half of the buck. I had cleaned the barrel and it always threw the first shot high from the group. I rested the forearm on a log. Result I was probably a good 7 inches up at that distance. My partner shot next and didn't miss. As I grew older I usually sight 2" high at 100. Varmint rifles plus 1".

Well said!

Shooting long range steel like Little Dick is fun and makes anyone better.

Always know your load and rifle and then practice, practice, and more practice. Also, a good range finder helps but always try to get as close as possible

300stw
The problem with a 300 yard zero is the midrange height between say 165-225. It is pretty high and is also the distance at which most game is taken.

ElkHtrNevada
Mr O’C shot a lot of game but there are folks around here who have shot more.

I just dial or use a ballistic plex reticle. So much easier that way. I'm surprised at how many guys try to make it more difficult.. I used to use kentucky windage when I was a teenager. Grew out of that stage though.

There are times where stalking closer is not feasible has nothing to do with stalking ability.

Last day just before sundown and the buck of a lifetime is on the opposite ridge 600 yards straight away but that doesn't take into account the up and down distance and time it would take to cover the distance

I don't even know what yardage my .22-250 is zeroed at. I suspect it's a hair high at 200. I do know the top of the thick part of the duplex recticle is dead on at 350 and 400 is 8 inches lower than that.