Are back.

New bill introduced today that will increase both R and NR fees...

HB260

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2013/Introduced/HB0260.pdf

That's not as bad as previous bills.

I guess they are telling everyone they are going to get [bleep] they just have not decided how bad yet.

Dink

I dont have a problem with the Resident fee increase...I just think asking the NR to keep giving more and more and paying for the lions share of every budget crisis is wrong.

WE have got to come up with some non-traditional funding...period.

I really don't have a problem with their fees. I just applied for my non-resident general season elk tag. If I draw I will be hunting in an area where I have seen several 300 plus bulls, if I remember correctly the cost was $588. In Oregon I will pay $640 for a spike hunt. I spent more on fuel last year than on tags. I wish they were all cheaper, but that's my passion. I don't gamble or golf or have a boat, nor do I go to football, baseball games. I just hunt!

Excellent way to look at it. I'll be back to Wyo this yr.

I agree! There are many other avenues they could adopt. As in AZ if you want an application book it is $5 IIRC or you can download online for free and print yourself. They also sell advertisement space in their app books. I have heard WY is doing away with the application books unless you request one. No more piles of them in every hardware store at least.

never seen a WY book but will comment on this going by Montana's books.....while a money saving step if they are printed on newsprint like most of Montana's books your prolly not looking at huge savings....while i cant do bigger books like say Montana's Deer, Elk & Pronghorn book i have outsourced similar for customers.....they actually arent that expensive.....not that its a bad money saving step, i dont have a problem with the idea its just not that big of one if the books being printed are similar to Montana's.....provided they arent getting raped by the printing company ofcourse....

rattler, in the past there were a bunch of seperate application/booklets printed in WY.

There was the Resident and Non-Resident application booklet. Then if you drew a tag, there were regulations for each species, for all the tags you drew, all in a seperate envelope. So, say I drew a buck antelope and 2 doe/fawn tags...all came in their own envelope, all with the same set of regs. Same for elk and deer.

On top of that, there was also a seperate smaller map for each species (deer, elk, antelope).

Myself and a few others pushed them to at least put all your antelope tags in ONE envelope with ONE set of regs...deer, elk, the same.

Now its pretty much all on-line and thats a good savings.

But, we're still going to have to come up with some non-traditional long-term funding. Its just not even being talked about right now.

The only thing being considered is license fee increases...and thats sad.

gotcha, for residents atleast(no clue what they do for nonresidents) they just mail you the tags, no books....Montana prolly has a dozen different books for various species/groups but your expected to grab the books, they arent sent with the tags.....but its all also available online and we do 99% of our stuff online and rarely grab a book anymore.....

sounds like the way Wyoming does it is definitely more of a cost than Montana beyond just the printing of the books....

...the way Wyoming USED to do it, they're back on track now and saving quite a chunk of money.

missed the "used to".....skimming while doing other things....damn work getting in the way

Are these proposed changes for 2014 or are these prices for 2013? Thanks

They could save on maps if the hunt areas used the same numbers. Even if they had to combine areas for "management" of different species in the regs. The seem to have the same boundaries but I won't swear to it. I have noticed the combined some antelope areas this year.

Buzz is correct they way overkill the printing/postage issue. If you want an application booklet you just call and htey mail it. They should at least charge for the cost of the booklet and postage.

2014

Wyoming Game and Fish Expenditure Allocations by Program, Summary Costs
2005 - $42,228,830
2006 - $44,992,554
2007 - $47,465,655
2008 - $52,894,125
2009 - $59,789,087
2010 - $68,305,129

This sort of explains the need for more revenues. Seems like some belt tightening might be in order up there, but who am I too judge. I don't think this is a sustainable growth curve but if it is, sure folks will line up to pay say $1200 for a buck antelope I am sure.

When does this get voted on?

Theres 2 active bills that largely accomplish the same thing. Neither has been heard in committee yet.

I'll let you know when they are.

You can track the committee schedule here:

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2013/Calendar/CalendarMenu/CommitteeMenu.aspx

Its committee 6...resources, wildlife, travel, recreation committee.

Looks like tag for deer jumped considerably elk tag is more than Colorado

I'm really suprised they don't sell ad space in their books. I guess I never looked closely. Most of the ones I get now have at least a full page back cover ad plus various pages thru the book, even in states with no application book but rather just a book for over the counter season dates and bag limits.

If the bureaucracy continues to grow at 14% per year, I don't think they have many alternatives other than raising fees and hoping that the nonresident numbers don't drop off as a result. Unsustainable at the local, state and federal levels, pretty disgusting really.

http://trib.com/news/state-and-regi...98f33af-4c5f-5782-8513-a9a56a221ca8.html

Last sentence is the million dollar comment. If you can't fund it, what option do you have really? And I love all the mention of "cuts". I would strongly suppose that utilizing the baseline budgeting preferred by all gov entities that a 5% "cut" is actually a reduction in the amount of increased spending they budgeted for.

I have only hunted in WY once and it is a great state. I don't mean to pick on them at all. It is just an example of what is going to hit these gov agencies around the country when they finally hit the wall on spending. And hit it they will.

So what happens if this backfires on Wyoming and all the business's that depend on the revenue from NR hunters each year. Do they lower the prices? Or just keep loosing money

They need to make real "cuts" in all things surrounding their bureaucracy and reduce license fees in order to drive more revenue and more hunter related trips.

So in reality you can plan on seeing continually increasing fee hikes and fewer and fewer hunters. And the bureaucracy will continue to grow at 14% plus per year.

Wonder how the fuel costs factor into these expenses.

Evidently fuel costs only affect gov when it's going up! They never seem to needed revenue when fuel costs go down or stag the same.

Gas in Laramie last week was $2.34 per gallon......

$2.34 is pretty good then. Normally we have pretty cheap gas compared to the rest of the country and we are $3.19 or so.

Fuel prices going up 10 cents a gallon thanks to the tax hike the legislature passed.

The G and F has cut budgets by 8% already. That keeps them out of the [bleep] until 2015ish. They hired a consultant to look all the western states prices and that is how they came up with the new increases ( for full price licenses only) that would take place in 2014. I would rather have the increase so we can keep our walk in areas and HMAs, continue task forces on our mule deer winter ranges to keep the big bucks safe and continued habitat projects so that maybe my kids will be able to hunt deer! I wish I was paying for gas what I did in high school but [bleep] has gotten expensive so why wouldn't my hunting licenses have gone up?

Fuel costs go up, vehicle costs go up, health care costs go up. What is the surprise? I don't know any rich WY G&F employees so it ain't like they are becoming fat cats and spending their winters in Hawaii.

Have to keep in mind that not only does the Game and Fish have responsibility to the game animals , birds and fish, but they also have all the nongame species which do take up quite a bit of their efforts. Along with Grizzly,Wolf and ferret recovery etc.
Somewhere along the line "sportsmen" may have to face up to paying for the free crap they get now such as the Walkin and HMA's.
I too would like to see 25cent gas, and do I ever pine for the days when we sent our 15$ in in June for a Moose permit, and got our money back in August just in time to get antelope license, pickup a deer and elk license and send in for the drawing to get a little pink card back said it was ok to shoot a cow elk in area xx.. And the elk and deer license had bear tags on them....
Things change and costs go up, but there comes a time when government agencies need to realize they need to be accountable and live within their means like the people they are supposed to be working for do.

Ranch13, Agree with that comment completely.

I'd be surprised if they took an 8% cut off of their last actual year's expenses. Gov has the ability to forecast a budget with a 20% increase in it, reduce that to a 12% increase and call it a cut. If they did truly reduce their budget by 8%, and I could see it on an annual report, then I would have some sympathy.

Your last sentence sums it up for me nicely.

Yep, a small tax on the oil/gas patches that dot the Wyoming landscape would take care of it. I'd also like to see something that helped foot the bill for non game species, besides hunters dollars.

8% is a drop in the bucket.
We're going to take a bigger hit to our personal budget, just on the gas tax increase, and the other tax increase's this legislature has seen fit.
The increases in license fee's don't amount to much as those are voluntary, you don't have to buy a hunting license..

Roscoe the taxes on those are what pays the big share of the states budget.Any increase in the taxes on the gas and oil or coal, and socker moms around the world start hollering about increased costs...

probably right, but something along the lines of a fraction of a cent per gallon produced in the state would likely take care of the shortfall. Not the only option of course but may be worth looking at by someone smarter than me!

The majority of oil and gas produce here is shipped out of state. If the state raises it's severance taxes, the oil/gas/power companies are just going to pass along that rate increase to their customers.

A couple comments...

Ranch13,

you brought up a couple good points, that the G&F is responsible for the management of some non-game species...management of all kinds is not free.

Oh, and the HMA/WALKIN program is not free...my wife and I have donated just shy of $2,000 to that program since 2001. I do agree with you, that a majority of people using the program are cheap-skates that wrongly think its free. I am also in agreement that we may have to go to a fee based system where you must purchase an additional stamp to hunt on an HMA/Walk-in area.

When you look at the scope of what the WYG&F is responsible for, its not real fair for comments like those made by 30338. From 30338's posts, one would assume all the G&F does in a given day is plot their next license fee increase.

They are responsible for an incredible amount of wildlife related work...from non-game species, to drawing systems, to furbearing animals, fish hatcheries, fish stocking, NEPA requirements, publications, regional offices, vehicle fleets, game damage, enforcement, hunters education, licensing, etc. etc. etc.

The WYG&F is living within its means, when considering the demand the public puts on them.

As to the businesses that are profiting from hunters/fishermen/public wildlife...they need to step up to the plate if they're worried that the fee increases will hurt their businesses. They have cut a fat hog in the a$$ for decades while financially not putting a single cent into the conservation/wildlife pool. Time for hotels, meat cutters, restaurants, gas stations, etc. to pay some of the freight.

The burdens placed on the Game and Fish Agencies has become too much for hunters/fishermen to cover on their own.

Time for those that have taken advantage of both wildlife and Sportsmen, decade after decade, to step up and help fund it.

Big deal...let the out-of-staters pay for the severance taxes. My wildlife habitat is taking a trashing via oil/gas development and we're worried that an oil/gas company might pass the price of severance taxes on to out-of-state consumers? Sorry bud, but I'm not going to lose much sleep over that.

Also, what about the mineral trust? We can fund all sorts of other crap from it...but not wildlife?

How about an 1/8 of cent sales tax directly to wildlife?...that would generate about 95 million a year.

Maybe but maybe not...surrounding states have higher fuel taxes and I have often found them to have lower prices. I was talking to one our State representatives the other day. He flatly stated if they didn't get the fuel tax through we would be looking at a state income tax in 2 years. With a fuel tax 53% will come from tourist consumption. It is a pick your poison thing I guess. Either way we are going to pay.

Actually it is time for the non-hunters that enjoy the opportunites provided by the hunters and conservation departments to help out.

Honestly in this age we should be thankful that we can still hunt on public land (BLM and NF). And be vigilante to make sure it stays that way.

Trust me, you think it sucks paying a few bucks more for a tag? Tack on a $2,000 lease fee to that, then it really sucks.

Keith don't let those sorry azzholes pry you with this state income tax bs. They always do that , and it just goes to proove the ones doing that crap haven't ever read the constitution that they swore to uphold... Just like the superintendant deal, but don't get me started on that....

Anyway the stated purpose is to give the DOT another 70 million dollars for hiway maintentance.... Oh boy more construction and roundabout intallations in Cheyennne, Whoopee.
In the meantime that means every 20 gallons of fuel anyone buys is going to cost another 2$..And some folks whine about a license fee increase when it's going to cost them another 50$ just to go to Jackson and hunt, or take the boat to the gorge...

Buzz keep in mind the license fee stand alone was the Game and Fishes idea many years ago, as it kept their funding from being a political football... (we can see how well that deal is working out can't we?)
While you donate 2grand a year the majority aren't puttin in squat. I like the idea of a manditorty ?10$ stamp for the walkins and some sort of day fee for the HMA's.If they can't take in enough money to fund the Walkins and HMA's then those either need to go away or the fee's increased.
And lastly don't overlook the lessons learned from the conservation stamp, the main purpose for it was stated to be so those who do not purchase licenses could also contribute to the Game and Fish funding... That worked real well didn't it?
The Game and Fish can find places/things to cut. Last month at the Natural resources convention, they handed out about 10 grand in cash and plaques to 4 or 5 landowners around the state... There are expenditures like that that could be cut considerably.

WY like CO needs to start wondering where all the deer went, then maybe they can justify their license fees. WY has got CO beat on antelope. Suprised we can even hunt them anymore in CO.

You do have to ask why they issue so many doe antelope tags when the areas I typically see them in are empty. Colorado is clueless on antelope.

Suprised Wyoming doesn't have a special fuel tax in the summer months only like June, July and August only.

What pisses me off is why any state keeps jacking up fees..for sportsmen and outdoorsmen...

Western states try to make a cash cow out of out of state hunters... keeping coming up with more regulations in the name of game management, when the end results are dramatically declining populations...

I'll leave Wyoming alone, and just focus on Oregon.. I liberal democrats always want to keep raising fees, just because they can't spend all the revenue they get in fast enough... our fuel tax is 42 cts a gallon...

License fees keeping going up... my latest gripe is that these jackasses come up with every one has to report their hunt results, even if you got nothing.... and if you don't there is a $25 fine the next time you purchase your license for the following year... they don't want to call this a fine, they want to call it a surcharge.. I call it another friggin public rip off..

So cursing all the way, I go on line and 'comply' with their BS, first for my son and then myself.... then my son gets a post card from the state and they tell him he did not comply so he has to pay a fee next hunting season for not complying...


so I call the state F & W and after multiple calls, trying to figure out there multi layers of voice menu options ( which anyone in their right minds hate anyway, as nothing ever seems to fit what one is looking for), I get a live person....

my name is looked up and I am told that I was in compliance... I give me son's name and am told he wasn't in compliance... so I ask how could it be that I filled in his information to make sure it was done, and they have my record and not his?

so I get this smart ass reply, "do you have your confirmation number?" What, we as the public now must receive an 'confirmation' number to prove that you STATE Employees did your Friggin JOB????' " yes sir"....

Bite me tongue... " no I gave you people the credit that you people did your job"....

'well sorry sir, your son will have to pay the $25 fee and the law states that there is no exceptions'

"So let me get this straight.... you people screw up and make a mistake on doing your jobs, therefore the state rewards itself with a 'no exceptions' bonus demanded from the public??"

'yes sir'....

these MF politicians and especially democrats need to learn there are only 100 pennies in a dollar..and they think they deserve as many of those pennies from each citizen's every dollar, and really go out of their way on another scam to get it...

I wish to hell I could take that $25 in pennies and throw the damn things in the face of our jackass democrat governor, by the handfulls.... and show him exactly what I think of his bright ideas on how to screw the citizens of his state.. they never end...

the only thing these democrats are good for, in about any state, is to lynch the SOBs....

and in Oregon that starts with Jennie Burdick and John Kitzhaber... I am not going to do it, but I darn sure wouldn't lift a finger to stop anyone who was going to...

its not the $25.. its the never ending BS of these jerks...