Right to work passed judiciary committee by a 7-6 vote today in MN.

Too slim if you ask me, it should have been 8-5 but one republican actually crossed over.

Now it needs to pass house and senate floor so that it can be put to a public vote on the Nov ballot.

We are very much in favor as my wife is one of the many labor hostages of a union. Very much against her will, she would love to have the right to opt out and perform her job free of the union.

I have my fingers crossed that it makes the ballot. If it makes the ballot, it WILL be voted into effect.


If this goes all the way, I believe MN would be the 24th state to become a "right to vote" state.


This is so very important for so many reasons. For one it would greatly reduce the cashflow that is poured directly into the dem party and the overall liberal agenda.

"Right to work" also helps to reduce wages, so Americans can compete with mesicans for cheap labor. Your taxes won't go down however.

Wife is afscme against her will. Her non union counterparts with less seniority earn higher wages and they don't pay dues.

Maybe the unions are to thank for her non union coworkers higher wages?

It's going to be a tough, uphill battle to get the amendment passed. along the lines of the protests in Wisconsin last year. The union thugs are already crowding the halls of your State Capitol with their signs and chants of "kill the bill!".
They may need you and your new toy for union-thug management.

I live in a right to work state. I kind of like it. Haven't seen where we are in big need of unions. We seem to get the job done just fine and make a decent living as well.

I'm glad I am a member of a trade contractor union (Millwrights), but I truly believe everyone has a right to work, and I strongly disagree with "thuggery". I really don't think guys should be able to interfere with non-union jobs, and harass people about "going union"...

THIS.

I understand having to offer competitive labour on a global scale, but our cost of living isnt gonna go down when all of our 25$ an hour jobs turn into 15$ ones.

Good points. It will be interesting to see if the "right" to work is honored should it pass.

No unions in China and it is working great for them.


Great wages, benefits, retirement, friendly work atmosphere,...

I don't have any problem with unions or anyone who wishes to belong to a union. All I ask is that others give me the same respect and opion to NOT belong to a union.

If a gruop of individuals wants to form or join a union, they should have that right and try to convince as many of their co-workers as they can to join their efforts. Those rights should be GUARANTEED for everyone.

At the same time, if they are unable to convince me or anyone else to join their union.....my right to NOT belong to their organization should also be GURANTEED. The right to work should NOT be tied to union membership, just as their right to work should not be tied to being non-union.

If a state (or company) can require union membership to remain employeed.....the same should be legal in reverse. A state (or company) should be able to vote that union membership automatically makes a person illegal to employ.

I'd love to see the uproar if a state were to pass a law that said any member of any union was NOT allowed to work in that state.....because of their union affiliation. To me, if a state can REQUIRE union membership, then it should be able to outlaw that membership. You can't have it both ways.....either right to work AND right to outlaw.....but not one and not the other.

As a former MN resident, I am happy to see that reality is finally dawning on some folks back there...

is sanity returning to the Twin Cities or is the rest of Minnesota finally overcoming Twin Cities liberal lunacy?

Unions are the reason for China doing so well.

You clearly missed the sarcasm.....

Indiana just passed a right to work law. We'll see what happens in our state.

Oh, ok

The right to work.... FOR LESS. Realize that right to work states have the lowest hourly wages in the nation, and the highest unemployment numbers.

China is bit better off than Detroit...hell caves in towel head country are...

BS on the highest unemployment...

Highest wages for jobs that monkeys can do...maybe

i bet you couldnt do my "monkey job" ? So many people confuse skilled labor crafts with the UAW.

http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm
http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm
nevada is the highest
wanna bet?

I agree there are skilled jobs in union...not all unions are the same. But the market needs to... has to... drive the value for that skill...you always get the lowest common denominator of skill with unions...

I have seen "skilled labor", boiler makers that is. Ef ups from the get go. Legends in their own minds.

One doesn't have to be in a union to be skilled labor. That's not to say that journeyman training for skilled trades is not good in some unions, nor lack skills.

Right to work has the lowest unemployment in the nation...see how stats work?

laffin

Regardless of how it turns out, there is going to be a lot of estrogen fueled bitching at the hospital I work at.

Sorry Dave, but it ain't gunna happen. It may have a chance of passing the House and Senate, nice to see them at least try. If it does, all hell will break loose, think Wisc. Scott Walker.

The Union will mobilize it's paid protesters and Occupy the Capitol. The Media will portray this as Big Business destroying the rights of the workin man, and it will work. Those that supported the Bill will back down cuz they are "just trying to get along" and are tired of smelling Human excrement in the halls of the Capitol.

If it does come to a public vote it will be dead in the water. The Union and Media will have successfully demonized the Republicans as anti worker in favor of the Rich.

If by some Miracle this Bill makes it though to a public vote and is passed, it will be short lived. The Unions will have this before a Federal Judge in minutes at it will be squashed.

Sorry for the negative attitude, but deep down I think you know I am right.

thats fine Dave, your wife wants out, its her privelage to make up her own mind.
tell me theres no non - union job she could take.
go ahead and get that job- stand up and be proud of your stance.

Tell me again in twenty years when your ready to retire how good your boss was and how your family is better off because she made a stand.
Remind me again why it is that the movement to unionization was brought on by the good will of wealthy employers, and that they ever thought of anyone in their employment as an asset.

Have you ever taken a long hard look at a Union Pension fund? It is a total and complete scam on the workin man and his employer. Run the Union pension $$ numbers compared to a private fund and be prepared to [bleep] yourself.

also has the lowest wage in the nation, and look towards the bottom of that list, VERY right to work heavy down there.

Im a journeymen Inside wiremen (everything after the transmission lines) 5 yrs of school, 8,000 OJT hours, thats a lot more training than any non union program, by far. Thats not to say that there arent good non union tradesmen, but the ones that are good, usually end up going union because they realize they're not making what they're worth, there are no non union outfits that will offer what our contractors will offer for the right guys.

What pension fund are you referring to, talking about them as one lumped entity leads me to believe your ignorant in the subject. Mine is a private pension, and is 100% funded, as is my annuity.

I hope it makes to the "people" for a vote because it will pass. Over 70% of the MN folks want it to happen.

You union guys whine like a woman with a broken high heel....

That's funny [bleep]. I make more than the union cats in my office doing the same job I do. I also pay less insurance, and get twice the vacation. Imagine what you could do if you could negotiate your OWN wages. Keep drinking that IL Kool-aid tho.

I wish people would disclose WHAT union they are speaking about when they say something, because all of them are differnt you cant paint them all with one brush. Im going to assume most of your ass's are chapped because of the UAW, and pensions that are defined contribution, as in, at retirement a person gets a certain number of dollars per month per year of service... so say that number is 35$/month x 35years of service= a pension of 1225/month. I can see where a person on the outside would see that as a rip off as that is not much money, but 90% of the unions out there also have an annuity program which is the bulk of thier retirement. I have a pension, and an annuity, both 100$ backed up dollar for dollar. The pension isnt a ton of money (i used my numbers above) the annuity is what will make me be able to retire, Its set up as a hourly dollar amount for every hour of work i do gets put into this and invested under my name, i can either have it in a pooled fund, or i can have it self directed and choose my own plans, and be much more aggressive.

I bet that id have a helluva time getting 40/hr on the check, my health insurence paid for with up to a year of banked hours, and 14.63/hr into my annuity, with over time and double time on it, thats what collective bargaining has done for me, and you better believe i earn it, if i dont, the contractors will send your ass right back to the hall. You state your in an office, im assuming your not a tradesmen then, very differnt, which you obviously have a hard time understanding

And you have as much useless [bleep] come out of your mouth as anyone on this site. Id love to meet you in person to see if your really as ignorant as you portray yourself on here, i see your in so wisco, Id like to invite you to the beloit rifle club for a day of shooting to see if you can debate in person :-D. On my union dime ofcourse :-D

Oh yeah. I don't pay their BS union dues either. See what they'll do for you when you get laid off. Bet they don't help you find work....oh, don't get me wrong. Your union brothers will tell you they will.

I've never seen more unhappy workers the the union guys.

There's the good old union bully coming out...but we knew it would didn't we?

lol t- your not very up snuff on this matter. I was laid off Dec 6, worked 2, 2 week jobs after that, and went back to a full time job that will take up till hunting season 2 weeks ago. Guess what, my hall did find me that job, we have an out of work list, you sign that list, when a job call comes up, you bid on that job call, if people ahead of you pass that call up, you get a job. Its very simple and very effective.. btw, i signed that book at 106, and i took my job at position 63. It sounds to me like you have a shop union, probably UAW or something of that nature, you have no understanding of a trade union, and a hiring hall. They;re the way a union is supposed to work.

how am i a bully ? because i offerd to pay for him to come shoot at a club im a member at, on my dime? and we could debate ? If thats being a bull, your just whiny little sissy.

..................

I am actually. Because there is an office it isn't a trade? You still have to punch in, check email, run test reports...yep office. I have a truck I use in the field, is that less of a trade too...oh yeah, I negotiated that too.

What trade are you in? what sort of apprentiship did you have, it doesnt sound like your a tradesmen or a member of a skilled trade to me.

cooper
Here is your boss R Trumka, Head of the Teamsters supporting illegal immigrants. He bemoans the fact that illegals cannot find jobs after they receive a free tax payer funded college education. How does this help working class Americans and support a living wage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgOymzQxJRg&feature=player_embedded


Here is my wife's union, SEIU, supporting illegal immigrants. She makes min wage and has to pay union dues making minimum wage. She is in nurising school now and leave the union. They attack people opposing illegal immigration as racist hate groups. :http://www.seiu.org/political/issues/immigration/


Here is the major union AFLCIO supporting illegals and voter fraud on their web site. They also attack people that oppose illegal immigration as racist hate groups:

http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Political-Action-Legislation/Another-Judge-Whacks-Wisconsin-Photo-ID-Law

I'll state it again then, afscme.

Filthy organization.

I believe they have dumped more money into the walker issues in WI than any other union.




Now remember, this is about "RIGHTS"

This isn't a witch hunt that chases union by choice out of the state. It's about choice, it's about allowing people to not participate in unions if they feel it truly is not helping thm.

This cannot be a bad thing can it?

I think if anything it would be healthy for the general public opinion of unions. The organizations that truly are just stealing money from employees (dues) without benificial representation will experience membership exodus.

The unions that function respectably and which have content members will remain healthy.

I can't see how this can be a bad thing.

how the hell do you get that the aflcio is supporting illegals on that ? That is simply a news story. Your a dipshit spin miester that really sucks at his job. Its not my fault your wife isnt educated and is in a low end posistion, its not her unions fault either.

Then I miss understood what you wrote... But you're starting to whine so I guess leverlvr is right.

Dave its a great thing for company owners, its a terrible thing for the common working man, the unions loose strength, and everyones wages will go down. THAT IS FACT. People do have a choice, there are non union trades in union states. Theres a ton of non union construction outfits in illinois, and they're doing just fine, our unions being strong, keep thier wages higher for those who choose not to be union. Ive never seen anyone forced into a trade union, but i do see tons of people begging to get in.

I live and work in a right to work state, but still have to be a member of the Union, why is that?

I don't like the union , they have cost me nothing but money.

Reguardless of you feelings about unions coop... People should still have the choice. Which is what this thread was originally about.

Well then you have nothing to worry about.

They do have a choice thats what your not getting. They dont HAVE to work at a union shop, there are plenty of non union shops out there they can work at.

rrconductor, why do you HAVE to be a union member, surely no one is putting a gun to your head? surely you chose your trade and are a free man and can quit and find work elsewhere if its so bad? i mean, i would if they were costing me money!

I reread that post. If you weren't being a bully, you were definitely being an azzhole.

Coop you're a typical uneducated white trash union thug. My wife speaks four langauges, was a classically trained musician and fled the Former Soviet Union as a political refugee 15 years ago. She was imprisoned for speaking her political beliefs in the former Soviet union. Both her granfathers were educated business owners in 1930's Ukraine. The were both ordered shot by Stalin because they were successful and their non union businesses stolen by the Communist Govt.. You do not read and probably do not know who he is.

She came to the United States with no money and just the clothes on her back and starting working 3 jobs and taught herslf English, computer programming and graphic design and was a very succeful children's clothing designer in NYC. She moved out west with me and no graphic design work in the area. She went back to college at the age of 44 and was just accpeted in to teh Nursing school. She works part time as a nurese's aid to pay for school.

Oh and she worked as a model in Europe for a year too.

Ok, the Local Carpenters Union here takes $2.35/hour out of my check(actually my employers bank account) and puts it towards my pension fund. When I retire, I get 4% a month of the total balance of amount paid(no interest).
So, If I work for 30 years and pay $2.35/hour my total investment will be $146,640. Multiply that by 4% and I get a great pension of $5,864 per month till I die. What's not to like about that, Aye! Be mindful you only get your Monthly check, you will never see the principle.
Now this is what happens if I take that same $2.35 and invest in my own NON-UNION retirement fund. At $2.35 invested for 30 years Compounded interest of 5% the total value of this fund would be worth $340,990. That is at 5%, my current private fund is averaging 8%, but I kept it low just to show you how bad the Union is [bleep] it's workers. That $340,000 is all mine, principal and all. If the fund stopped dead and accumulated 0 interest after 30 years, it would take me over 59 years to drain that fund at $5865 per month.

Union Pension fund are a scam and are stealing from the very workers that support them.

I just dont see why anyone would vote for something that is going to make them LESS money. THe middle class is shrinking immesurably now. Unions are needed more than ever if my kids and your kids kids are ever going to be able to be part of the middle/upper middle class, they keep the blue workers in a living wage, without skilled high paid jobs, america will never get out of the trouble that were in. Having a country full of college educated idiots that cant actually make something is ruining this country. Without mfg and infrastructure building we are going to die, to do that we have to have hi paid, highly skilled tradesmen, and manufacturing. No one wants to do those jobs if they cant make enough money to live on.

I need to add that I am a member of the UTU and getting ready to change to the BLE( cheaper runoff and better ins), I work for one of the big 3 railroads.

[/quote]

If she is so educated why on earth would she take such a low paying job then? I think your full of [bleep], you have a habit of being full of [bleep], i see no reason for you to change now.

Cooper, who do you think you are fooling? Not forced in? Happens all the time. Union shops? Fair Share? Undoubtedly you paid your dues in your electrical union and want everyone else to live by your standards.

People, old "Coop" here has been water boarded too many times to think clearly. Its the union way. Plus, there would be less campaign dollars going to the democrats. Unions = a group of people bundling money for the democrat party.

So your wife is getting excited over the prospect of lower wages, maybe a loss of overtime?

I get you though, I hated my dues going to the democrats, just a little bit more than my employer's money (he said he couldn't afford to pay me), going to the GOP. Oh well, he provided me a job, so who am I to say, just as the union provided me better pay and beni's through negotiation. What I ever lost to the democrats, I gained back through collective bargaining.

I'm not a "member," you got that right.

More union pro illegal support and destroying the working middle class. No wonder unions despised by hard working Americans:

But it was Trumka�s positioning of the argument that really can bring a sea change to this and other progressive issues. Because his speech really focused on shared values, shared experience and shared goals. It was an outline of a movement. Here�s an excerpt:

At the heart of our strategy must be a workforce with world class skills and world class rights and trade policies that serve the interests of the American people. But today I also want to talk to you about what may seem like a strange subject�immigration�because it is patently clear that we cannot talk about our national workforce strategy unless we face head-on our own contradictions, hypocrisy and history on immigration.

The truth is that in a dynamic global economy in the 21st century, we simply cannot afford to have millions of hard-working people without legal protections, without meaningful access to higher education, shut off from the high-wage, high-productivity economy. It is just too costly to waste all that talent and strength and drive.

But immigration reform is not just an economic issue. The way we as a nation treat the immigrants among us is about more than economic strategy�it is about who we are as a nation.

My wife works for the state, court systems. I have no idea how a union fits into that setting.

The same as I don't understand how a union fits into ANY tax payer funded line of work.

It doesn't work!!

There is only so much money available to pay for these necessary state functions such as the judicial system, there is no room for a middle man there. It's a state job, and it WOULD be a very good job if it were not for the afscme. This organization hurts the employees, they take their money and rifle it directly into the liberal agenda and things like Scott Walker recall efforts.

Dues money is pumped straighy into the democratic party which inturn lobbies for tax dollars to be pumped into their voter base entitlements.

It's compounding failure!!

It's truly criminal and people should have a choice to not feed this evil liberal money pump.

go to the nearest jobsite you can that is union, ask any of the guys working there if they were forced into the union. Get back to me after you do dipshit

Cooper here are your Typical hard working skilled union workers:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SSOoWy6opg

Bully, bully, bully....your bullshitt is starting to show through with every post.

Because everybody doesn't have your communist views, you have to say their full of [bleep]?

Typical really.

'

I can see your stance on that, and I can agree to it on some levels. I agree that public sector unions are needing major overhauls, but i dont think they should be wiped completly off the map by stripping collective bargaining.

Even a web site dedicated to monthly Union corruption:

http://www.laborunionreport.com/portal/2012/03/union-corruption-report-february-2012/

It depends on your meaning of the word "force". You have been so brainwashed, you can't think straight. Once upon a time unions did serve a meaningful purpose. Now? Bundlers for the democrat party, the union thug hierarchy and ok, a 15 minute break.

Hey Coop, show us your union tattoo.

More drunk and stoned union workers. Must take a lot of skill to down a 40 and smoke a blunt on a 15 minute break:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVmKyJXHXRE

Im far from communist, but he's so far right its not even funny. There was no bully there, he really is an idiot and his ramblings make no sense at all, he just copy and pastes stuff and tries to twist it to fit his own skewed version of reality. But really, if his wife is as perfect a woman he says she is (4 languages, super model, multiple degrees, fashion designer, software designer) why would she take a minimum wage job? That doesnt strike you as fishy? lol cmon.

Again in your infinite ignorance, you;ve provided a non skilled union, not a trade union. Keep trying, eventually the blind sow finds an acorn.

You (the union guy) seem to be the one on here doing most of the name calling. Course...it ain't bulling though.

Oh, now if it doesn't fit his template, its a non-skilled union. This is better than the 243WSSM drivel posting.

And more union support of illegal workers' rights over American workers' rights. How shameful COOPER:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/14/us/14immig.html?_r=3

Huh? over 40% of union members vote independent or republican. A 15min break, in the morning, yea thats nice, its also law. As is a 30min lunch during an 8hour working day. I prefer the 40/hr on the check, 14.63/hr in the pension. Paid health insurence and low deductibles. Im quite happy with the 106,000 i made last year, and the 43,600 i put in my annuity. The contractor i worked for was very happy to because they made a killing on the project and had no problems because of the good union workers that knew thier job, and brought it in on time and under budget.

OH MY GOD!!!

What is in that damn union kool aid anyways???

Read my post again, Coworkers that are fortunate enough to not have their individual possitions locked in as unionized possitions.... MAKE A CHIT TON MORE MONEY!!!

I'm trying to tell you that the non union court clerks make more money than the union court clerks.

That is the truth!! Plus they don't pay dues!!! So they really make quite a lot more.

Plus they don't get emails and postal mail to their homes spewing the liberal union kool aid.

Why is it so hard to believe that in this case and many more cases like it, union is a very, very bad thing for employees.

Constructing military planes is not skilled labor?

What an idiot!!

Sure they have more skill than a union broom pusher like you Cooper . How much beer and dope do you consume at work Cooper? Is it in your precious union contract?

Read that:

They support legalizing the ones who are in this country, that means getting them to be tax payers and contributing to the country, they're not gonna leave on thier own accord, and rounding them all up would costs billions and billions of dollars. So the next best thing is to legalize them, and get them documented so they can contribute to the programs they benefit from, how can you be so ignorant to the facts? SHAME ON YOU RIBKA.

More hard working "skilled" union members on the job:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/chr...g-on-the-job-steps-away-from-union-hall/

HAHA!! That is just [bleep] laughable as if anti-union big buisness had been making an effort to close the borders. The only reason the unions now attempt to unionize illegals was becasue they couldn't get the spigot shut off, thanks to those who you now lionize. Name me one Republican POTUS who receives contributions from the GOP, who has actually made a move on illegal immigration?

Perhaps the right word is extortion. Part of the mandatory union dues is spent on electing politicians who in turn support legislation that favors the unions. Check out how this labor leader from the SEIU plays it:

They werent building military aircraft you MORON. Yes those are non skilled trades, and i probably hate the UAW more than you do, because they give retards like you ammunition

Holy crap! Who said anything about wiping them off the map or anything about collective bargaining????

They can bargain themselves right into the union kool aid utopia for all we care! Do it! We don't care!!

What we are looking for is the right to not be a hostage to the union!! A choice!!

Why would you want to force people to join?? It can't be all that great if they aren't appealing enough to lure members in with the "obvious benefits".

Wait, so you are going to find a few clips of union workers getting high on the job, and make the case that this is indicative of all union workers?

Are you a democrat?

Surprise surprise corrupt unions to give over $400 million for Obumble's re election. How much of you union dues went to The magic MArxist's re election campaign COOPER?


http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2012/03/12/unions-plan-spend-400-million-reelect-obama

e
No, he's a true retard. He doesnt just pretend to be one during an election year.

They aren't hostage to any union, they can go find a non-union job. Why is the OP's wife still working where she can't stand being under the unions thumb, could it be the good wages and benefits? Was this a union shop when said wife was hired there?

probably enough that he'll get re-elected and you'll probably off yourself because of it.

If the folks in Minnesota want it, they should have it.

40 percent of union members may vote R or Indy, but 100 percent donate to the Dems. Whether they like it or not.

Unions are far from perfect, of course neither are right to work states.

I'd be careful for what you wish for...

Florida is a right to work state, I often work on the same projects as union hands. After discussing this with some union hands of equal experience and ability as myself, there isn't much difference in pay and they spend much more time laid off. Mostly we get along just fine, however, there are some union millwrights in South Carolina that wont go spouting there 'Go home scabs 'BS to a tank crew anytime in the near future.....

And the unions' history of their close connection to organized criminal groups: FBI web site. Must be proud COOPER


http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/organizedcrime/italian_mafia

yes. but for what my union dues are compared to what i make, a lot more of my money goes to more conservative causes and charities than to the Dems

nailed it.

If this is truly the case, why don't they vote the union out, it ain't hard at all.

And i neither union or non union makes over 25/hr down there, and i bet insurence sucks on both ends.. Thats what right to work does. If it wasnt right to work the union would be stronger, and YOU would make more money. I begrudge no man who is non union, I tell them the benefits and if they want, will put them in touch with an organizer, who can see about getting them in the union or an apprentiship, where they can make more money, and provide better for thier families.

"Honest" union memebr fighting back COOPER


Well, today on Capitol Hill, more brave union members are testifying about the Big Labor money machine forcibly fueled with their hard-earned money. You can watch the proceedings live at 10am at the House Oversight website. You can read the prepared testimony of Mr. Terry Bowman of Ypsilanti, Michigan, Ms. Claire Waites of Daphne, Alabama and Ms. Sally Coomer of Duvall, Washington here.

Chairman Darrell Issa�s opening statement:

Every worker should have the choice to decide whether their money is taken from their paychecks and used to fund political activity. When this occurs, a worker should also have the right to know how their money is spent.

Individual freedom and personal choice are cornerstones of our democratic government�they are also at the heart of union participation in America.

Today�s hearing will examine the process by which union dues are collected and how transparent unions are about this process. The Committee�s focus is not an examination of the validity of unions or their right to exist, but rather an effort to ensure that the political activity of unions does not infringe the freedoms of workers.

Because of recent court decisions and a systematic effort by the Obama Administration to reduce union transparency and reporting requirements, union workers do not currently know how much of the money from their paycheck dues is being funneled to SuperPACs or used for other political activity. The Administration has also drastically reduced the Department of Labor�s ability to effectively audit labor organizations.

These actions will have far-reaching consequences. I welcome the union workers who have agreed to testify today and appreciate their willingness to speak their mind about what they see as unjust restrictions on their freedom of choice in our democracy.

Very transparent, very predictable.

This topic is about choice. If union is good for you, then I want you to be able to have it. I want what works for you, I want you to be able to choose to be union.

Why is it that you don't want others to be able to choose to not be union if it is what works best for them?

At the American tax payers' expense. When the union pensions go bankrupt as a lot do, they come and get bailouts from hard working non union American taxpayers COOPER

Scale is much lower here in the South but some trades pay well anywhere. $25 an hour is top hand or young pushers pay in my line of work union or scab. The real difference in pay is at the bottom, the hall starts young fellas out higher.

Your an idiot, i hope your wife takes care off all the thinking in your house. Public sector and private sector pensions are totally differnt. Public sector are so F'd up because repubs have been raiding them for the last 20+ years. My pension and almost all other "solvent" private sector pension is 100% funded.

"but they can choose"....raffin. It's coming.

Not directed at you Cooper.

The little bubbles that people live in always amaze me.

I have no problem with that. However it isn't rocket science, the unions will contribute to the party who believes in unions, but it it is found that this is an infringement on the rights of the union worker, I'm all for that.. even though I know in the future it is sure to mean bad news for myself and the middle class. It'll go full circle.

That is true. Our apprentices start out at 40% of journeymen's wages, and get raises with school years and ojt hours completed with a signed and verified journeymens review of thier skills. 25/hr is probably a very good wage in the south up here it would be average or below. Our scale is 40/hr + benefits Non union around here is 30-32/hr with no benefits. we have 98% of the commercial/industrial market share as well

If you are ok with that, then so am I.
I like having total control of where my hard earned money goes.
And who it helps elect.

I've already stated im a Tankbuilder, Boilermaker by union designation. If you don't mind my asking what trade are you in?

Pretty sure his $ goes to the exact party he wants it too.

Because sometimes [b][color:#3333FF]it's the right thing to do,[/color][/b] unless people want to live in a crumbling society that mimics Greece..


Unions are one of the reasons what you state above isn't going to happen.

Business exist to make money for the shareholders. If a business isn't making money it can't compete. In order to make the maximum amount of money for the shareholders and be competitive, jobs are moving to China.

Unions only have themselves to blame for pricing themselves out of the market.

Folks will bitch and moan and don't want to accept it, but that's what's happening..Take a look at the Union stalwart city of Detroit, Michigan..

IN OTHER NEWS today,.. [b][color:#3333FF]Unions commit 400 Million dollars to the re-election of Obama...[/color][/b]

A Great example of why Right-To-Work is Justified...Hope you can do it Minnesota...and keep your hard earned $$$ from going to the Obaminaiton in the process.!

Im a Journeymen Wiremen. Electrician by regular name.

PROUD member of the IBEW.

As stated before, I begrudge no tradesmen for being non union, nor would i chase them down and threaten them nor would any of my local brothers. We provide information and let them make thier own decisions.

I will however stand firm when there is needless, baseless, and uninformed bashing of trade unions simply to further someones ultra conservative agenda, Its just as bad as being a socialist or a communist.

How come the most prosperous times in our nations history were marked by the highest numbers of union involvment? STOCK holders dont fix this country, and trickle down economics dont work. High paying middle class jobs are what sustains a country and stimulates economic growth.

I just love these union debates on this particular forum

FWIW, I am working with a non-union millwright. Side by side, every day (I have no intention of stealing his job, throwing bricks through his windows, roughing him up, etc). The whole union/non-union thing is very, very interesting, and there's valid points on both sides of the fence...

Also for what its worth, ask him whether he'd like to stay non-union or not...the answer may suplize you.

Unions ARE dying a slow death. It's going to take some time. China and India are able to manufacture things cheaper than the U.S. can because they have the people and resources. We've known this was going to happen for decades.

They aren't generally known for "high quality" products, but in time they will be. Items like the Apple Ipad are already made in China and have made [b][color:#3333FF]Apple a company worth over $400 billion.[/color][/b]

It all comes down to dollars and cents in the end. Unions cost too much to be competitive on the Global market. Companies see what operating in China brings to the company's bottom line, and off they go, jobs lost to China.

As business are continuously driven over seas by the high cost of doing business (U.S. Corporate Tax rate, another issue), U.S. unions will fade away.

Will probably take 50-75 years, but they can't remain competitive.

The balance-sheet leverage is with the low-cost provider.

Paying for work seems to me to be the stupidest thing I ever heard of.

There is obviously public support for this vote. Why not put it on the ballot & give the people it will effect a choice in the matter?

Oh yeah. That's not the union way.

The Unions cannot afford to let this happen. This could cost them Billions. The Union pension funds are the biggest money laundering scheme ever devised and they are worth Billions.



The Union pension funds are the only investment plan in the country, cept Social Security, that pays you less per month than your fund earns in interest, and When You Die The Payments Stop and they Keep it All. What a scam.



Just think about it. You pay into your Union pension fund for 30+ years, It's cash value is worth Hundreds of Thousands of dollars. You retire at 65 and collect a modest monthly pension for a few years then croke. The Money is now theirs, they keep it all 100% of what you invested and all that compounded interest. You family will be left with nothing.



Of course you can select option (2) with your pension. That is to collect a reduced monthly payment by about 1/3 and when you croke your wive will continue to collect until she crokes, but they keep the principal and interest regardless.



Do you really think they are going to allow anyone to take this away from them? Remember this is the MOB we are talking about and they have more money than God and they will use it and their powers of persuasion to squash this bill and punish anyone that supports it.