Patagonia pro or con hunters? I have only been able to find the Con!
Appears to me hunters should be boycotting Patagonia products.

Patagonia indirectly supports "Defenders Of Wildlife" as a "Featured Partner" through their Freedom to Roam campaign and the WitnesstoWildlife.org website, see this link

http://www.witnessforwildlife.org/

Defenders Of Wildlife are the NY City based wolf lovers partnering with PETA that have been stymieing the Montana and Idaho Game and Fish depts. That would seem to me to be "Anti Hunting"

In their mission statement about the "outdoor pursuits" they mention many- but hunting was left out.

Patagonia also backs "Earthjustice" the spun off legal arm of the Sierra Club. Here is a link to their backing of "Protecting Wildlife in wilderness areas" the legislation currently being debated in congress.I get that Earthjustice is trying to preserve wilderness from development but they also want "No Hunting" in those areas- snuck that in on us for sure!Link;

https://secure.earthjustice.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=1073

I could find nothing in Patagonias company info that says they support hunting- but plenty to the contrary.

So I'm asking the sages that say otherwise, what am I missing?

I have always believed they were anti-hunting.

I know it isn't politically correct to admire Yvon Chouinard and Ted Turner, but I would jump at a chance to have dinner with either.

I honestly don't know too much about their activities. But, I will still buy their products until I see STRONG links with anti-hunting groups or company statements that say so otherwise. Don't think they can be anti-gun when they are going after military contracts either. I find buying products from Red China just as revolting, but what can you do?

They aren't opposed to all of it, only some of it.
As long as their prices are competitive and their products make a difference for me in the field, I'll buy and use their stuff.
There is also the fact that we hunters spend alot more money on gear than does the "dirt bag crowd." That has to influence their bussiness decisions.
I don't know about you, but I like to have some sort of voice with these people. E

How about these strong links: Earth First! Finances

MtnHtr

I try my best to support companies that make hunting clothing. Wouldn't want them to go away. Sitka and First Lite come to mind.

Mtn hunter- Solid info, just one more example of Patagonia's backhanded support of the fringe anti hunting groups.

Maybe its because I'm tired of the apathy of the avg hunter or citizen in the US....but I'm sick of all the whining.
"Waaaah, the wolves are overpopulated, but I will continue to use capalene even if Patagonia supports the fringe groups, I like it"
I look at actions, and the actions of this company are anything but pro hunting.

I'm not trying to sensationalize this or blow it out of proportion. But we all know the game[or should] the loss of hunting is incremental. We loose mtn lion hunting, bear hunting with dogs,etc.

Little bits and pieces until one day you say to yourself, "Maybe I should have got off my ass and done SOMETHING"

Plenty of "Blind eye" support of Patagonia without looking at the facts.

Guys claiming the owner of this site Mr. Rick Bin [according to someone on the other topic]is a big fan of Patagonia.[ second hand info- if this is incorrect- my apologies]

My challenge to Mr. Bin;
You derive income from this hunting site and loyal hunters, why not give something back.
Lobby Patagonia to support hunting. Use your position, use your website base of subscribers to petition Patagonia to support lawful pursuit of game, State F&G programs, etc.

I use patagonia and will continue to. Patagonia can have its own opinion just like everyone else. They can be Pro, Anti or neutral, doesnt matter. I totally understand the anti-hunting movement, lots of slobs out there. I do volunteer trail work, 90% of the people that hike the trails are treehuggers. Your going to cross paths with the enemy from time to time, nothing to cry over.

If it wasn't for the animal rights activists, anti hunting groups and treehuggers we would have killed off almost every animal on this planet, you know its true we have done it before. It takes all kinds of people to make the world go round.

Patagonia has a pretty advanced, and pretty successful, brand strategy. Hunting would tricky to incorporate into it. They have a lot more of their customers to loose via actively being pro-hunting, than they stand to gain. The group of people who would buy Patagonia if they actively supported hunting, but won't now is very, very small in the grand scheme. It would be a poor business decision for them to aggressively market to the hunting community.

I don't believe that they are anti-hunting at their core. They are very active in supporting myriad environmental groups, and their is a bit of crossover between these groups and anti's.

They make product for the military, but they don't advertise that fact, nor do they donate funds to lots of pro-military organizations (at least not that I've seen), because it doesn't fit with their overarching brand strategy. Likewise, I don't think that they mind seeing hunters utilize their product, but you won't see a dude packing out an elk rack in a Patagonia ad.

I couldn't disagree more. Hunting needs checked, without question, but I think that hunting conservation groups have done much more to protect game populations than tree huggers ever have. We simply care more, and have more to lose.

All I can say is "Wow!" I would be curious where this point of view comes from? I am not sure of any situation where sport hunting has threatened any species populations. If you want to go back to market slaughtering of the past I think that would be crazy to link that to hunting. Hunters around the world have been the driving force in preserving animal numbers and to say otherwise upsets me... to say the least.

If they are anti I wouldn't buy one thing from them, zero. I do think Patagonia does fit this bill and therefore will not support - show me one thing that shows me that they are at least hunting neutral . ..

I am talking about the opinions that these groups shared. It was people who were in the middle who started Hunting conservation organizations. "Sport hunting" is a fairly new concept and we have done an ok job at regulating it. Trophy hunting is what most anti's despise and the reason they the feel the way they do.

Good example, i was hiking on a well traveled trail to go bear hunting when i met some hikers. They seen my gun and asked me what i was doing. I told them i was bear hunting and the first thing they said was "Why do you want to kill the poor bears just so you can have a rug?". Then they also said that the bears should be protected in this wilderness from trophy hunters like me.

When they calmed down a little, i proceeded to tell them that i hunt bears for the meat and that i leave the hide in the woods for the coyotes to chew on. They did not think you could eat bear and after having a pleasant conversation about their opinions on hunting, they wished me good luck when i left. That i day i did my part trying to convert an anti hunter.

The reason i told that story is that people are not born being anti hunters and they are not bad people for thinking that way. I don't agree with some things that Cabelas supports, but i buy gear there , same with Patagonia or REI. Just because its pro-hunting does not mean its good and because its anti hunting does not mean its bad. I have some odd opinions on things compared to most, the quote i gave is a little far fetched, but there is some truth in it.

Big W has a little wisdom in his posts. On a recent hiking trip around the camp fire my best friend shared some similar words.

"The world needs people at each end of the spectrum to balance things out." What would happen if every person in the world was extremely pro hunting? What about if everyone only cared about economy and industry?

I don't agree with the philosophy 100% but it has changed my thinking in a few things.

.

Yeah there are some words of widsom in that post. Most of the people that I know that are animal rights or anti hunting are just unimformed or humanized animals to the point where they think that every deer is bambi and every Moose is bullwinkle and no-one should ever shoot Yogi. And they think that hunters are responsible for the demise of all animals and can't at all see how hunters can be an effective wildlife management tool. With all that said I'm not going to give a dam dime to any company that fights my right to hunt when I can give my money to a company that fights for or is at least supportive of my pursuits. Balance - there should be, but balance there is not, there are only extremes, so pick your side. JMHO

It's amazing how people are anti hunting until a bear is standing on their porch, a deer is flying through their windshield, or they are on a plane crashing into the ocean from sucking in geese..

Carl +1 on your answer from a "business" perspective.

Patagonia continues to dump huge amounts of money out to organizations in thier "1% for the planet" program. Thier goal is to support and improve "the environment". Thats a pretty broad objective, and pretty much impossible to do without handing money to an organization that doesn't completely share our views.

I think they also deserve some credit for really trying to quantify the environmental impact of bringing thier products to market, and minimizing the footprint they create. I am pretty sure there is no similar company that is even close. This benefits us all. Thier products may be the "cleanest" available of thier type.

Also if you look back at some of thier catalogs they did contain photos of hunting with a setter and a falcon - its still hunting.

Also I know first hand that they have actively sought out a local wildlife biologist (F&G type) to support his work on GPS mapping of Mule Deer migration corridors and winter range for thier "freedom to roam" campaign. I also know that they supported the work that the Hawaii F&G was/is doing on native forest restoration and game mammal management. I don't know the extent of thier support in either case.

I am not suggesting they are "pro-hunting", but I would suggest that they are possibly neutral at best. And I don't think its fair to label Patagonia with the same views as the orgaizations they support.

By all means if they don't fit your ideals of what an outdoor company should be, take your money elsewhere. But be fair and spend some time and vett your choice with the same critical eye. Just because a company prints a lot of camo, doesn't mean they are good for the fields and forests.

Regarding the Patagonia owner's business perspective, these are good guesses and reasonable, but I'm afraid not supported by fact. Here is a quote from the owner in response to those who do not agree with his philosophy:

"It's surprising, not alarming. I couldn't care less. I could get 10,000 letters saying "Take me off your mailing list" and it wouldn't bother me. If you're not getting those letters, you're not trying hard enough. That's the way I see it.

What they don't realize is that I'm not in the business to make clothes. I'm not in the business to make more money for myself, for Christ's sake. This is the reason Patagonia exists -- to put into action the recommendations I read about in books to avoid environmental collapse. That's the reason I'm in business -- to try to clean up our own act, and try to influence other companies to do the right thing, and try to influence our customers to do the right thing. So we're not going to change. They can go buy from somewhere else if they don't like it."

So go ahead, buy his gear. Write him letters.

He apparantly is in business to act as an environmentalist. That's right, he takes your order for a sweater, hires a crew in China (or?) to fill it (using all of the fantastic environmental regulation to create infrastructure, energy, etc). Then he ships it all the way over here for the environment. Thank him.

Oh, and regarding having things made in the USA, he said impossible. He would be a martyr and go out of business! Tell that to Mystery Ranch, or Prois (just ordered my wife pants from there, Made in USA).

I support everyone's freedom to buy as they wish. Get what you want. I don't want anything from Patagonia myself. As I stated on the other thread, there is a massive list of all the envoronazi groups they support (many of the biggest anti-hunting groups included), but no RMEF, Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, etc.

Edit for Sources added:

List of benefactors from Patagonia--I think they claim $40 Million donated total:
http://www.patagonia.com/pdf/en_US/2010_enviro_grants.pdf

Interview of Yvon Chouinard
http://www.grist.org/article/little-chouinard/

I guess I didn't know a lot of this. I kind of assumed it, just because they are known to give out a decent chunk of their profits to various causes. Thanks for the info guys.

Thank God we live in a country where we are free to express and have our own opinions... I am going to bite my tongue or typing fingers at this point.

Fact check: I just dumped out my fleece and long john drawer and inventoried my Patagucci stuff for country of manufacture.....

21 pieces MADE IN USA
3 pieces Made in Mexico
3 pieces Made in Israel

Nothing from Asia. That's just my drawer, and I am not suggesting its a representative sample. But they certainly do make stuff here.

That's cool. I was only going on what their site said and the interview quoted. I haven't had any around for years. On their site they discussed a plant in Taiwan that they contract with, and Yvon said they could not manufacture in the USA w/o becoming a "martyr." I appreciate the heads up--I'm not trying to be unfair to them. In fact, I don't think all they do is bad. I wonder why he would say he could not make products in the USA but you have some that are? Are they old?

What do you think about Yvon's business plan, as quoted?

Buy what you want. I won't give support, but I'm that way. I also won't shop REI. Yvon said let them shop somewhere else if they don't like it. That's what I do.

Further research reveals plenty of spending on rivers and waterways- so no doubt the guy is a fisherman. And there is no question they are environmentally minded.

Saw a Patagonia proposal to reimburse hunters with tags for the Buffalo hunt just outside of Yellowstone. The F&G agencies decided to cull the herds due to overgrazing, overpopulation- Patagonia would buy any hunters tag back to save the buffalo.

I don't know much about this hunt- sounds like more of a shoot to reduce the herds- which seems to be Pata's beef....or Buff in this case.

Well-said, Carl Ross.

My original post is completely in line with Yvon's quotes and I wasn't trying to portray them any differently. "They give huge amounts of money to organizations that sometimes don't share our values." And that they are primarily focused on "the environment."

The question was is Patagonia Pro, Anti, or neutral to hunting? My OPINION is that they are neutral, leaning anti. Why? They loose a bunch of points for some of the super sketchy organizations they support. But I don't believe that the reason they support them is because they are anti hunting, and Patagonia isn't anti hunting as a company, that's my OPINION.... It's just that organization is probably also working on some " Panamanian 7 toed purple tree frog" project, and that's why they got the money. As someone else pointed out they provide a lot of support to good organizations that are helping struggling trout and salmon populations. And yes Yvon is an avid fly fisherman.

I think its easy to be critical of a company that puts their donor list and their mission statement out there for all to judge. I tried to find that for the companies you mentioned, but couldn't. I am fully supportive of any company trying to make stuff here and my shelves are filled with their gear, so I am not trying to bash anyone. Just until they put the same info fourth, we are all just guessing as to why they are in business or where their money goes.

I have had Dana stuff for over twenty years, and while I know nothing of the how or why it went to K2 and consequently to overseas manufacture. It still puts a pit in my stomach to see that happen. If US manufacture is a core value to a company there are ways to off load a company and stipulate the manufacturing stays here. It didn't happen that way in the end.

As to the age of my Patagonia stuff, its pretty evenly spread over 20+ years. And yes the stuff I got last year was Made in the USA. I suspect that quote was taken out of context. The certainly can't make everything here, and probably only a small percentage actually is. I checked Prois for country of manufacture, and couldn't find it on their product pages I am not knocking them, I am just saying it takes some balls to put that stuff out there, because then you will be judged and criticized. And that's the way it should be.

Sometimes its just easier to ask them............


"Thanks for your note. Patagonia does not have a position on hunting. Our employees run the gamut from hunters to vegans. Our owners have not found it necessary to take a stance on hunting for the company.

If you have any other questions please let us know, have a great day!

Skye
Patagonia Customer Service"

Kenai,
Thanks for asking them.
I have noticed that Patagonia takes it on the chin a fair bit, often even from the more radical libs about not being 'green' enough, of all things!

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

No prob,

Sometimes all you have to do is ask them

I have noticed that on a number of customer reviews for Patagonia products(on Patagonia's website) you will see hunters chiming in with their experiences. I guess they must be 'apathetic' about their hunting rights also!

Well, I mostly agree with you. I think if they were completely neutral to hunting, you would see orgs like RMEF on the donor list. I don't think he is afraid of sales lost by donating to such an org. Yvon clearly says he doesn't care about his business sales and bottom line, but rather about environmental activism. I thought it was funny that in the same interview he turned about and said there was no way to produce in the USA when they have taken extraordinary measures in environmental aspects. If you are curious, the link I posted has the interview from the Grist, a lefty publication also supported by Patagonia. And yes, they define themselves by their environmentalist slant, or something like that. You can read and determine for yourself if I took his statements out of context.

I also respect that Yvon puts it out there like he does. He says he can do that b/c he is not beholden to share holders. He can damage is business as he wishes w/o having anyone to answer to, whereas other corps cannot. He describes himself as "powerful" and contrasts his position to Bill Ford's. I respect his ability and willingness to do as he wishes with his profits. I am a business owner (corporation, ownership same as described by Yvon) who has NRA stickers on vehicles--in a business where I meet with clients at remote locations from my vehicles. I will put my political affiliations on my sleeve as well, so to speak. I know that it is a poor business practice, and accept the consequences.

I've certainly learned alot more about Patagonia since I looked into it. Definately some good programs supported by them, and who is against sustainability? But I will not give money knowingly to someone who is associated to some of the radical institutions on his list of donors--many of which are anti-hunting, if not in statement then in action. Furthermore, while I am an avid hunter, I also ride off road vehicles (mnt bikes and dirt bikes) and like to use my 4 wheel drive. The question was about hunting, but these organizations on the list strip us of freedoms like crazy, so I wouldn't support them regardless of the hunting aspect. In fact, I would put the hunting at a distant second to the fact that I've lost so many trails due to lawsuits from the various wilderness lawsuit organizations on his list. This summer we lost 150 miles of unbelievable trails around Hyalite Lake due to lawsuits and a radical judge (same judge who arbitrarily stopped the scheduled wolf hunt due to a lawsuit also by some orgs on the Patagonia list). If it sounds like I'm bitter, I am. But I expect others to do as they wish.

Lots of little backstabs at me by a few here...I suppose it is the internet where facts are only important if they justify your position.

I assumed some of the info uncovered would be as much of a surprise to you as it was to me- maybe not.

I maintain actions speak louder than words...and their actions lean negative hunting- more so when you factor in they don't want to Pizz off the PETA crowd.

I would concede their pro environment stance is commendable though slightly misplaced in some circumstances and YC is a charismatic man- no doubt.

I was hoping that a coordinated campaign of hunters loyal to Pata products could possibly sway them to embrace hunting. If the Pata hunters are satisfied with the status quo, I won't waste my breath.

I don't depend on Patagonia to support hunters or my political choices. They make some seriously good gear, which I will continue to buy and use when I'm hunting. Smart business doesn't please everyone. Good intel says Yvon is an animal murderer. Best hunting clothing I snagged in 2010 was the Patagonia R1 hoody.

I quit buying Patagonia gear for the same reasons you brought up. I don't find their gear any superior to other companies so chose to buy elsewhere. Why would I give them my support so that they can then use that to fund the environmental groups that want to end hunting? I don't understand the thinking of some of the others on here either. Might as well donate to the Sierra Club and wolf lovers directly.

I really like my DAS parka, got it on sale two years ago. It's stuffed in this pack along with a boned-out mule deer:





This pic is from Sunday, I was feeling really apathetic about hunting so I put on my Capilene, grabbed the parka and pack and went for a long walk. The deer could read my body language and sense my apathy so they in turn were apathetic about running off and one of 'em ended up following me home.

I tell you what, when I made it back to the truck after packing that thing out, I was really friggin' apathetic. All I could think of was stopping for a beer and a burger on the way home.

Edited to add: As I was throwing a load of laundry in the washer, I realized that besides the Capilene and parka, I was also wearing some Guide Pants!!!! (bloodied) I can't believe the depths I've sunk to!! I feel the urge to fry up some tofu, somebody help me.

Smokepole,

I always felt some justice when my patagucci had a few well deserved critter blood stains on it. Congrads on your hunt.

This thread made me think harder about my semi loyalty to patagucci. I have purchased literally hundreds of items and recieved tremendous customer service forever, I always knew that I was supporting Yvon's visions of making the planet a "better" place. And those visions were not always supportive of hunting, I believe the intention of his actions are well founded.

When the originator of this thread made it clear that the purpose of the thread was to "unite hunters to send a message to Patagonia" that their support to non-profits needs to be more "hunting focused". (I am paraphrasing here as to how I read it)
I wondered why, and have you really taking the time to look at what Patagonia is? The quotations cited by "headwatermike" should have made that clear.

1. Just because we do, or want to use, Patagonia gear, and want them to act differently so we can feel better about tipping over an elk while wearing capiline, is challenging to say the least. Just my opinion.

2. Equally challenging and similar would be to start campaigning (MR, Sitka, Prois, or you name your favorite) to match the $ as a percentage of sales, the amount of money Patagonia tosses to non-profits. "you want us to do what? Go broke giving money away!"

3. We could start our own company with the same mission as Patagonia, only we would give all our profits to hunting centric non-profits. (I am currently accepting applications)

4. We could realize we already did that, when we created the Pittman-Robertson Act, and take a more active role in how that money is spent.

5. Lastly we could send a message to retail giants like Cabelas, that we are sick of them brokering private ranchland, away from traditional "ask to hunt properties" or walk-in access, to wealthy private leases. Or perhaps we could encourage them to stop importing millions of dollars of Asian junk hunting products and slapping their name on it and selling it to the masses. Just because they give a token donation to some of our favorite organizations, doesn't mean they are good for hunting, or our country. A global economy is a fact of our time, but I for one would like to see Cabelas look as hard at their impacts on the environment as Patagonia does.

Just my thoughts - aramid fiber suit on!

Brownie:

I like #5 personally.

Have you seen 180 Degrees South?

I don't own one piece of Patagonia clothing or gear and don't see that changing anytime soon. There's lots of other choices for good hunting gear out there besides Patagonia.

B_Lance: I have known several people who live in my new hometown (Dillon, Montana) and they did and do work for "patagonia" - there IS no question the "patagonians" and the management (ownership?) of "patagonia" are HARD CORPS anti-Hunters!
PERIOD!
I will never buy a "patagonia" product!
If I had to buy a product to save my life and the only two choices were to buy it from a Chinese company or from "patagonia" - I would buy it from the Chinese ("chi-coms"!).
I don't even park any of my vehicles near the "patagonia" store in my hometown for fear one of my friends/acquaintances would see my vehicle and think ill of me!
In your post you use the term "indirectly" - there is NO indirectly they are directly anti-Hunting.
I am also very often disgusted and disappointed with the apathy and ignorance of my fellow Hunters as illustrated by "eremicus" and a few other blithering idiots on this board!
To hell with "patagonia" and "patagonians".
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I agree, most of the workers in the Dillon store are really anti hunting. However, I did have a nice conversation with a worker about flyfishing the Beaverhead and Grasshopper creek and then about elk hunting. I think if we use Patagonia clothing let the workers and management know and be proud that we hunt. Show Patagonia we are valuable to them as a customers. If we all boycott them won't they be more Anti? Just my thoughts.


ddj

VarmintGuy--I know for a fact that the husband of the Dillon store manager hunts big game. Not to say that there aren't some staff who don't; I wouldn't know that either way.

I find that hilarious. Little self-conscious?

Sal- Well said

Seems to me plenty of hunters are using their gear. I was exploring the idea of starting a campaign to lobby them with say 100,000 hunters.

1. I don't even see 20 guys on this forum of the same mindset [lets call it "disinterest" since the apathy comment seems to agitate some]

2. I have had similar disinterest in other groups of hunters

3. The more I come to understand Mr.YC's mindset, the more I think it would be a waste of my time

Somebody is smoking crack. My guess is Yvon Chouinard has ripped more lips and crushed far more furry critters with lead than Varmintguy.. all the while wearing some sweet clothing produced by over a thousand Americans who work for his company.

Bet all the wolves got your elk too.

The first sentence says what?
http://www.patagonia.com/us/patagonia.go?assetid=3351

Patagonia certainly doesn't target the hunting market and they don't need to. Don't confuse environmentalism with anti-hunting.

This is from the guy who started a thread warning montana hunters to not call for help in getting downed game out.

What a complete idiot.

VG-

Last time I was in the Dillon store two of the very nice lady's told me all about the elk they killed this year.

Greenhorn speaks the truth. There are a quite a few "eco freaks" who support hunting and I think the whole "know where your food comes from" movement is going to multiply their numbers.

Brian (proud eco-redneck)

I agree, Brian.
I will keep on wearing Patagonia's stuff, and keep on hunting and shooting.

Yes, but is that a fair test?

My son and his girlfriend were over last night, and I fried up some of the tastiest venison tenderloin I'd had in a while. She doesn't normally eat meat, but she loved the TL. I'm sure if someone like VG saw her on the street or in a store he'd conclude she was a rabid environmentalist.

We talked hunting, she thinks it's cool because free-ranging game is about as sustainable as it gets, and the meat is free from pesticides, low-fat, and not corn-fed. Plus, she understands that the herd needs to be thinned.

You can't judge a book by its cover.

Does anybody know the stance of the World Wildlife Fund (the ones with the furry little panda emblem) on hunting? They promote it in Africa as a way of conserving habitat. The reason being, if the locals can make a good living off international hunters (they do) then the habitat and game populations are worth preserving to them.

If they can't, the habitat is firewood.

As I said on the Capilene thread... I gaurandamntee everyone on this thread gives money to Co's that promote and fund things in complete contradiction to their own values and/or political beliefs.

Yvon Chouinard is not anti-hunting, but is pro-conservation. What everyone in the Co. thinks is beyond the control of one man.

I'll continue to buy Patagonia, wear it, and bloody it... I'll not "apologize" for wearing it either... good grief.

Patagonia's undeniable link to "Earth First" and how "Earth First" is truly an environmental terrorist organization by spiking trees, I will not buy, own, or wear anything Patagonia.

Awesome... more for me.

I think it was Yvon Chouinard who said, in reference to mountaineering, "you've got to get obsessed, and stay obsessed!". Always liked that.

Patagonia is real gear, built to last. Their Capilene was arguably revolutionary. For strenous outdoor activity in general their stuff has been uniformly excellent for me- mostly hiking and skiing; I haven't hunted much in Patagonia stuff (other than Capilene) due to the colors...

I'm kind of an "eco-redneck" too if I can borrow the phrase <g>. I have no problem with Patagonia; they are not anti-hunting. That said most of my hunting gear is made by someone else because I like camo.