for hunting purposes, are they about the same?

considering re-barreling the 30-06 to 25-06, but only i fthe 8x57 will fill that 30-06 nitch...

Dave

Of course they have to be about the same as in physical terms they are.

As to the choice of one over the other the practical choice, of course, is the 30-06.

At the new Cabelas here there were only two boxes of 8-57S for sale and dozens of 30-06 choices including bulk.

The standard action length is a little long for the 8-57S as when it came out the bullets were much longer and heavier. Thus a 30-06 fits standard actions better.

Here is a nice 8-57. I leave well enough alone.

When I first started deer hunting I knew a then elderly gentlemen who owned an 8X57 Mauser. He told me it was far too much gun for deer. He said it was for elk and larger critters. My has the hunting scene changed. Now hunters consider the 7MM Rem Mag barely adequate for Rocky Mountain mule deer and nothing short of a .300 RUM will work on elk.

The 8X57 Mauser will not only fill the '06 "niche" it will redefine it. And I'd do it because I like the .25-06 as arguably the most practical crossover cartridges on the planet. In short, it is excellent for mule deer and sheep, and with a stout bullet and good aim will routinely take much larger game. Ain't no doubt in my mind that an elk ain't gonna know the difference should his heart/lungs be destroyed by a .25-06 or a .30-'06!


Happy holidays,

Mando

Savage_99,

That is one damn good lookin' rifle. Do you hunt with it? I'd almost be afraid to put a scratch in her! But a rifle like that, like a good bird dog, was created to hunt! What loads do you use in it? How does it shoot big bullets such as 220 grain stuff?

Yes I hunt with it. Its an old used ZB Brno 22f that I had scope bases and a M70 type safety fitted.

The rifle has scratches on the stock so its not new. Besides that its over 50 years old.

I shoot the 180 gr Nosler BT because its accurate with that bullet. Most of the game around here does not require more than that bullet.

That one is a carbine with a 20.5" barrel. It weighs about 7.75# as you see it.

The 8x57 is a fine cartridge. Loaded to modern pressures, it is a very adequate elk knocker over.

The case capacity of the 8x57 is just a trifle small for some of the bullets you might want to use, though. And a 175 grain 8mm bullet will have a slightly poorer BC than a 180 grain 30 cal bullet. So, even though you can get 2750 fps out of a 175, the trajectory will be SLIGHTLY poorer than the 2800 fps you can get out of the 30-06.

These differences are not very big, and not worth worrying much about.

Given the choice between having a 25-06 and an 8x57 in my cabinet, vs. having a 30-06 and an 8x57, the 25-06 and 8x57 combo wins hands down.

Under these particular circumstances, you might consider reaming the 8x57 out to 8-06. That's cheap to do. If it shoots well now, it should shoot well after reaming. All things considered, I think the 8-06 might be a trifle better cartridge than the 30-06.

Of course they will perform nearly the same. After all, the 8x57 (and 7x57) were the reason the US finally abandoned the .45-70. First it was the .30-40 Krag, then the .30-06 (.30-03 actually). The '06 was originally loaded with heavier, lower velosity bullets........until the Germans came out with the high velosity, flat shooting loads for the 8x57. We quickly developed the 150 grain load for the '06.....playing catch-up again.

Loaded to it's potential, the 8x57 performs almost odentically to the .30-06.....with the added benifit of a larger bore size (.323 -vs- .308) for a bit more "punch" and damage (not much, but it's there).

Savage_99,

Well, if it has scratches on it and being over 50 years old, well, I guess you ought to put her up for sale. Tell me where you are & I'll come up and take that old lady off you hands! Besides, I think she'd look like candy on my arm!!!

Seriously, though, that it a damn good looking rifle. And it reminds of how bad off hunters were before the mega-magnums came along. Imagine how inferior they must have felt killing moose, elk, polar bear, and grizzly while armed with only the likes of an 8MM Mauser! Fact is it was a big gun then and it still is! With 220 grain bullets there ain't much it can't do. BTW, who was the famous elephant hunter who killed all them big boys with a mere a 7MM Mauser???

Texasrick says it about right, properly loaded 8x57 is so close to the 06 you won't be able to tell the difference

From my Remington Model 700 Classic with a 24" barrel, the Sellier & Bellot 196 gr SPCE factory ammo, which is listed with a factory muzzle velocity spec of 2592 fps, gave a chorno'd average of 2647 fps (instrumental) for an average muzzle energy of 3049 ft lb. Not too shabby. When loaded to its full potential, the 8x57 is still a very effective cartridge.



Remington Model 700 Classic in 8x57JS
Handload: 220 gr Woodleigh round nose at 2400 fps

Cheers!
-Bob F.

The 8mm Mauser will fill the nitch. But you will need to handload for it to reach its full potential. Factory ammo for it can be hard to find and it is down loaded.
Mine likes 200 gr bullets. It will push a 200 gr bullet faster and more accurately than either my .308 Win or my 30-06.

BFaucett,

I do agree that when loaded to its full potential the 8x57 will work on all North American game. And looking at your picture it appears a damn good cartridge for African game as well. However, it does seem to require handloads to reach its potential. And as cole has written when properly loaded the 8x57 does seem to have an edge on the .308 Win and .30-'06.

BTW, doesn't Norma load excellent hunting rounds for the 8x57 that achieve its full potential?

Mando,


According to their web site, Norma loads their 196 gr bullets to a factory ammo velocity spec of 2526 fps. That's a little slower than the RWS and S&B ammo.

Back in 2004 when I got my Rem 700 in 8x57, I complied a listing of the ballistics of the various European ammunition. I wanted to get an idea of what velocities the 8x57 was capable of, in factory ammo, to use as a guideline for working up my handloads. Here's the table I compiled:


Note: I think Hirtenberger no longer loads sporting ammo.

The RWS and S&B ammo seem to have the highest velocities listed with the various bullet weights.


I agree, especially if comparing to the underloaded American ammo. The RWS and S&B ammo seems to be loaded to the cartridge's full potential, though. HOWEVER, most of the European ammo is probably hard to find here in the States. (Except for the S&B ammo, I haven't tried to locate any of the other European ammo here.) Plus, if a hunter wants to take advantage of some of our excellent American bullets, then handloading is probably the only way go, at least here in North America.

As the .30-06 is so well established and available, there really isn't any compelling reason to buy an 8x57 instead of a .30-06 from the standpoint of practicality, IMHO. But, having something a little different can be fun. Here in the States the 8x57 will most likely be a handloaders cartridge in order to get the most out of it.

I'm also a big fan of the .30-06 (I own three) but the 8x57 can certainly stand on its own merits when compared to the .308 Winchester and the .30-06 Springfield. I think the 8x57 is a very well balanced cartridge that develops some very respectable ballistics. The Germans certainly knew what they were doing when they designed it. The 8x57 has become one of my favorite cartridges.

Cheers!
-Bob F.

8mm Mauser will fill the 30-06 niche easily and then some.

I'd make that -06 into a quarter bore for sure.

yea blammer, but you took a perfectly good 357 and reamed it out to a 360 dan wesson...or something like that, which I have NEVER heard of....but man did it do the J-O-B on that deer of yours! What a hole!

Dave

Last year I picked up a nice 8x57 and I really like the way it performs on deer. Based on the bullets, and loads available, I'd not hesitate to use the 8x57 on anything that I'd use the '06 for.

Weagle

I've limited experience with the 8mm, but suggest it is most useful if one handloads for it, or can obtain some foreign ammo. Domestic stuff is loaded too tame ( for safety purposes ) and limits the effective range of the round.

I have both (8mm & 3006)and if you are not a handloader then 3006 is the way to go. I used my 8x57 this year to kill a nice 6 point at 190 yards. Handloaded they are the same as far as what they can kill. If you are a handloader then I would suggest a 25-06 the fill your gap. I was thinking about getting a savage 243 to fill the gap in my gun case. or if I can find a nice 257 bob I will go with that. M8x57