You can get factory ammunition in both 300Win and 35Whelen with 200gr bullets that are running 2900fps+. So if shots were 300yds and under why would anyone choose a 300Win over a 35Whelen?

Availibility of ammo ??

This.

If I go to the Wal-Marts here I see boxes of 300 Winchester Magnum but never seen 35 Whelen.

There have been several tests showing 200-220 gr 30-06 and 300 mag both outperformed 35 Whelen on the big stuff. It actually outperformed everything smaller than 375 mag, including 338 mag. Pretty obvious which works better with lighter bullets at longer range on smaller game. According to my recoil calculations a 300mag/200 @2900 fps also has slightly less recoil than a 35 Whelen/250 @2550 fps.

Someone posted results of testing done by Finn Aagard a while back but I cannot find them. This is a similiar test done by the Alaska Game Dept on their recommendations for large bear protection. In a nutshell they say 375 outperforms everything else, but 30-06 with heavy bullets is their 2nd choice. First choice if recoil is just too much with the 375. The 300 mag equaled, but did not beat 30-06 at close range. The extra speed is good for longer range, not close range punch apparently.

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152

Well, due to the extreme differences in ballistic coefficient, the 300 Win mag is carrying about an additional 900 ftlbs energy at 300yds.

In real world though, I don't think there is an animal you would hunt with one that you would not hunt with the other.

Nothing at all wrong with the Whelen. Used to have one in a Rem 7600. Great shooter. I would look more at the 225gr range though for better down range performance....even though a 200gr Hornady spitzer will do everything you need it to.

At some point, a 338-06 fan is gonna chime in as well

JMR40, that link: shows 308Win outperformed a 300win,300Wby,8mmRem, and 358 Norma mag? If all were shooting a premium bullet like a Nosler partition this couldn't be....

Agreed. Premium bullets would change the results drastically. I have been toying around with the idea of getting a Whelen or something like a 325WSM. I already have a 300WM and 300WSM though, so I'm not sure I'd really be gaining anything. Those are the two largest rifles in my stable. I'm very interested in hearing what some others have to say. 9.3x62 has also been on my mind as something to compliment my 300's.

Didn't know you could get that kind of velocity out of a Whelen.

Because I've never known the range of shot opportunities that will present themselves until they actually do.

I've had anticipated ranges of 300-600 yards turn into 25 feet. Conversely, anticipated short range opportunities have turned long on the event.

link: http://www.hornady.com/store/35-Whelen-200-GR-SP-Superformance/

Wow that ought to get an elks attention

Said another way, why would anyone choose the whelen? What will it do that the 300 win won't? I truly believe premium bullets have made most cartridges so much more versatile and the overlap in cartridges is now greater than it has ever been

The Whelen will have less muzzle blast.
The Whelen does not need a magnum action.
The Whelen will have less felt recoil. maybe?
The Whelen makes a bigger hole.

I suspect a 250 or 280 grain RN Whelen at moderate velocities at moderate ranges would smack the piss out of anything it hits and considerably harder than a 300 WM.

They use the same length action don't they?

I have shot both and owned a Whelen. The Whelen was a puppy dog in the recoil department comparted to the .300's I've shot. That could be the stock as well, the Whelen had a Mickey on it.

I think you can get another round down in the Whelen - surely that will be the deciding factor for at least 1.2 hunters out there.

Then there was that recent thread about sub .30 caliber rifles being vastly inferior to .30 and above. The logical extension would be that a .35 caliber hole would be worlds better than a .30...

I had no interest in any sort of magnum 'til I recently found a .300 WM (Kimber 8400) that seemed to be too good of a deal. Thus far, it seems to kick far less than my Whelen (700 CDL), and it handles really well, to boot. However, I'll think I'll go broke by the time I book enough hunts with each rifle to discern what animals that one rifle can kill, that the other cannot.

FC

I have both. The .300 stays home and the Whelen goes hunting.
Paul B.

Yes the 300 Win ammo is more readily available, BUT I think you are way more likely to find 06' brass to reload too. Granted you have to reload... Lol

Both the 300 win mag and the 35 whelen are great guns however each one truly fills a bit different nitch. The 300 mag is at its best sporting a 26 inch barrel and is a true performer for long range shooting............something the whelen doesn't do well. However....if your like me and prefer a short handy little rifle for packing on your horse and you prefer your barrel not be dragging the ground the whelen is a true performer with a 20" barrel. My 225 gr barnes handloads are cronographed at 2806 from a 20" barrel with minimal muzzleblast........something the 300 doesn't do well. There truly is a place for both of these awesome calibers and I would highly recommend both of them.

Shod

Because a 200 gr bullet in a 300 mag is a moose/elk/grizzly bullet and a 200 grainer in a 35 whelen is a deer bullet, you're comparing apples and oranges. It all depends upon what you want to hunt with it. I load 200 gr hornadys at around 2900 fps in my handi rifle 35 whelen because it qualifies for "primitive weapons" deer season here in Mississippi. I'd never shoot 200 grainers out of a 300 win mag at deer, what's the point of that? If I were to use a 300 mag for deer, which I don't, I'd load a tough 150 grainer like an accubond at warp speed and take advantage of it's flatter trajectory. Likewise I wouldn't shoot my 200 gr 35 whelen whitetail load at a moose, it'd probably work but I'd feel a lot better with more weight and sectional density.

That depends on the 200 grain .358 bullet. I'm not at all reluctant to use the 200 TTSX for the biggest game in NA......

Crowhunter hit it on the head. A 200 gr 35 cal Horn has a bc of .301 and a SD of .223 while a 200 gr NPT has .484 bc and a .301 sd. Apples to oranges indeed. I've used 200 Corelokts out of my Whelen on deer, yup it kills them. It acts more like a 125 gr in an 30-06 though . A fairer comparison would be 250 gr 35 against the 200 30 cal. When you shoot deer and elk with a 225 NPT at 2500+ out of a Whelen it doesn't blow the crap out of your eating and I suspect that is why more than a few guys like 200+ gr 30's the same reason Plus penetration at all angles. STA you need to come up with more plausible comparisons than that. Magnum Man

Suck bullets simply suck and I've long abandoned the 200 Hornady for deer even in the .358 Winchester. Penetration with that bullet is minimal. I've used 200 grain loadings in both cartridges (300WM & Whelen) on numerous animals in excess of a 1000 pounds and the only difference I can see (when using non suck bullets) is that the Whelen pounds me less, but the animals are pounded as hard or harder........

Quite right. The weight of the slugs alone means little. And while I wouldn't hesitate to tag my moose were there to be an unexpected opportunity with a 200 PSPCL in the 35, that isn't the bullet I'd choose for it if moose was what I was hunting specifically. And though the 200 XFB, TSX, or TTSX would all be more ideally suited in the 35 if one were collecting a large animal like a moose, it isn't a bullet one could count on to penetrate near as well as the same weight and type of bullet in the 300 Mag. The Whelen is much more of a niche rifle than is the 300 Win Mag, the latter being one of the top choices for all-around rifles one might pick for Alaska, perhaps a bit heavy in some other places in that role.

Don't get me wrong, I love the 35s, but you have to respect those cartridges that are effectively boring and often beyond realm of looney rifle hunters.

Wow JMR . . . I finally got around to looking at this "test".

Maybe I missed it . . . (I didn't read it line-by-line) but I could see no reference to the Whelen at all in this document? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Otherwise, I think you are making a gross generalization that cannot be supported by the "test".

The closest I could get to your conclusion was by noting that the 350RemMag didn't do too well (still better than the 300Mag, but the 358 did better). Then I saw that they tested both with 200gr factory ammo. WTF ??? I stopped reading at that point, and concluded the test was conducted by morons.

Probably shouldn't cite this one again

Same here...LOVE my whelens

I like the Whelen better for hunting in the rain because when I kill something with it I don't get as wet---and it usually is raining during hunting season here. The reason is the Whelen picks them up and shakes the rain off them, so I don't get as wet when I handle them.

I also like the way the Whelen blows chunks of lung out the other side of an animal, so they are easier to gut.

Only disadvantage of the Whelen is all that slipping and sliding on the huge blood trail---but it's never more than a few yards long. If you can find where the animal was standing when you shot it, you can just go there and you will be able to SEE where the animal went down. I just wish we Whelen owners got to shoot our Whelens more. One shot per animal is kind of a letdown, after waiting so long for the season each year.

Randy,
From my experience it does. Had both the Whelen and .300 in the Remington KS. The .300 was pretty sporty in a 7.6ish# rifle. (with scope) Of course the Whelen in a lighter package will get your attention when shooting the 250gr/up too.

The .300 went down the road, the Whelen stayed.

As an example of one each I killed a mulie at about 150 yds with a 300 WM. 180 Partition started at 3000 fps. Shot behind shoulder, deer did 50 yd death run and had a neat 1" hole thru the deer with little other damage. 35 Whelen similar shot and distance w/250 gr Speer SP started at an honest 2500 fps, the deer took 2 steps and down, completely destroyed the inside of the deer and did not exit. Upon gutting the animal, the guide said he had never seen so much damage to a deer.

Ive got to point out that when Remington offered those 7600 35 whelen rifles 4 guys in my elk hunt group purchased them within a year after seeing how well mine worked on the first trip I used it, (loaded with 250 speers)and how fast and effective it was,those that didn,t at the time all say they regret it and are looking, theres three basic rifle styles that at least three or four guys in my elk hunting camp have in common, those are, 7600 35 whelens, 358 win BLRs and a bunch of 45/70 marlin lever guns
all with a well proven track record in the area Ive hunted for decades, and yes Ill point out shots over 300 yards are virtually none existent in that area.

I normally try for double lung shots on deer and antelope. Elk are a different deal I try to place the shot to break them down on the spot. I have shot 2 bulls with the 180 NPT via the 300 Win Mag they went down on the spot.I've killed another bull and a cow with the 225 NPT in the Whelen . I didn't have near the meat loss with the 35 and 225 NPT's even with major bones broke. Moderate velocity I suspect is responsible for that. I like them both. As far as the 200 gr 30 cal, no experience but I'd bet my last dime it's even better than the 180 for everything. Magnum Man

have custom built in both 300 win mag and 35 whelen..both awesome.when i hunt where i might need to stretch it out a little i use the 300.when shots are max 300 yds and on tougher game on the menu i truly like carrying my shorter 22" barreled whelen.its all really just about what gives you confidence in different applications.just when in grizz country i like a larger diameter.

Taking a break some years back in big bear country in a place that used to belong to Russia. .300 Win Mag with 200 grain Nosler Partitions and really wishing it was a stainless .375.

I call BS on the statement regarding Hornady 200 grain bullets in the .35 Whelen, I took a whitetail @ 100 yds. with a raking shot that entered just ahead of the last two ribs. It lodged just under the hide on the offside shoulder, perfectly mushroomed and retaining 66% of original weight.

Haven't shot the dumb thing since I ran out of 208 Amax

Well if you are shooting at 300 yards or less then a 308 has more advantages than both.

Range estimation under field conditions can get a bit iffy. The .300's forte is its ability to propel heavy low drag projectiles quickly to hopefully keep the POI close to the POA. The price is recoil, noise and reduced barrel life. The .308 is accurate, easy to load and quite mild but as the distance stretches you can see a difference.

Good reply

I'll go out on a limb and say, that's a CROCK! Remember, a .308 is everything a .30-06 is and LESS! With 150s and maybe 165s the difference is very small to the pont that it's unimportant. But with heavy for caliber bullets the .30-06 is better than a .308 everyday of the week.

On whitetails, both choices are not optimal

We had one guy in camp that hunted with a 300 Win Mag.

I've got a Rem 7600 in 35 Whelen.

The longest shot to date at our camp is 250+ yards. The vast majority have been in the 80-and-under range.

Neither 300 Win Mag or 35 Whelen did any better than 30-06 with 150-165 grain bullets. However, both brought deer down.

In one instance we saw a whitetail blown in half by a 300 Win Mag. Yikes.

My "Whelenizer" accounted for a bunch of deer before being retired in favor of a new 30-06.


The conclusion from our deer camp is that both chamberings are not the best idea for whitetails at fairly close ranges.

Also, as the bullet weight increases.

Shaman you ever try the 225 gr NPT at 2550 -2600 fps in your Whelen? Never used a load that did so well and ruined so little meat, it definitely makes the Whelen a heavy hitter. MB

My current experiment is the 180 grain Speer in the Whelenizer. I figure if I've got to resort to premium bullets on a whitetail, I'm doing something wrong.

Meat damage has never been a big deal with us. The most we ever blow up is rib meat.

I've killed mulies with both at about the same distance of 150 yds. Whelen was a 250 Speer at 2500 fps and the 300 was a 180 Partition at 3000 fps. The 250 Speer acted like a hand grenade in the body and my guide said he'd never seen more damage to an animal. Took one step. 300 zipped thru with a perfect 1" hole thru both lungs and it did the usual 100 yd death sprint. I went back to my 270.

Shaman. You keep your eye on the SPS WEBSITE until they show some 225 gr NPT's then it's the damn Speers that are expensive. You know I wouldn't bs you. MB

Thanks for the tip. I see them listed but out of stock. I'll keep watch.

Just like Bartman, I also have a M70 Super Grade in 300 Win Mag and a Rem 700 BDL in 35 Whelen. I've used the Whelen with 200 gr Rem Core-lokts to take a couple whitetails, and 3 caribou. All died right where they were hit. Meat damage was no more than the .280, .308 or 30-06 which I've used on other whitetails. I also used the Whelen on a moose hunt in NB using Federal Premium ammo with 225 gr. Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. It too didn't take another step. My 300 Win Mag is from the estate of a dear friend who used it to take his bull moose on our trip together to NB. He used Federal Premium 200gr TBBC and his moose also died on the spot.

I've not hunted with the .300 Win Mag because I've not hunted anything bigger than whitetails since I've had it. Where I live and hunt the .300 WM has no advantage over my other deer rifles. For me, the biggest downside to my .300 WM is that the rifle is just too heavy and too long. The Whelen with it's 22" barrel is much handier.

Given my hunting is inside 300 yards I cannot imagine using the 300 and a minty LH M70 in such a caliber sits right in my closet. My buddy has a M70 Super Grade he had rebarelled in 35 Whelen. It came out way too heavy and he never takes it out. Too bad because it's very accurate with 250s.

That being said, a medium bore with a heavy bullet at moderate velocity is a highly dependable weapon. The same can be said of the 300 provided someone has the opportunity to exploit its capabilities.

Bluefish, if you load a 165 gr spire pt at 3000 fps in a 300 Win mag is accurate and less recoil, resembles a hot 30-06 load in performance and recoil which allows you to enjoy using the gun more often. MB

I like them both, used the 250X and later the 200X for 20 yrs in a 35 Whelen Ackley. I also used the 180 XBT/300WM and up to 350yds, no difference. Past that the 300WM is a bit easier "for me" to hit with. Recoil? about the same to me too. However, I was really humming that Ackley, so quit it ( I have one good eye left, no use gambling with it, ha) I have circled back around to the 300WM but really like the new Barnes 175 LRX. I feel its a good compromise and I can safely get 3080 average with my choice load. I'm also one of those that feel a 30-06/200gr load is every bit as good as my Whelen was...so its a toss up.

But that makes my point for me; why not shoot a 30 06 or a 270 or a 7x57 at that point? I view the 300 as a long range rifle. At the distances I shoot I do not see a real need for it.

A 200 gr 358 is NOT the same as a 308 200 grain.

Always hard to beat the larger diameter bullet. Can't go wrong with either.

I don't know much about 300 Win Mag, but I do know that it can contribute to alcoholism. Years ago, I had a co-worker I'd not met before come up from Georgia. It turned out we were both deer hunters. I had recently nailed a couple of really nice bucks. He'd recently bought a new 300 Win Mag for hunting at his club. We had plenty to talk about.

The one thing I found odd was his assertion that 300 Win Mag had become necessary for the swamps. He was shooting them at such close ranges, he'd had to by the 300 Win Mag to successfully drop them, otherwise, he'd lose them in the swamp. I tried to question the idea, but. . . well, I wasn't going to be impolite.

Later, his boss and I were talking. He asked me what I thought of him. I replied that he seemed competent and nice and it had been good to fellow deer hunter. My boss laughed.

"He hasn't shot a deer in years," he replied. "He bought that 300 Win Mag of his a while back and it kicked too hard for him, so he now just sits around the clubhouse and drinks. He's still on his first box of ammunition with it."

So my admonition to y'all is that 300 Win Mag may contribute to excessive drinking. Just saying.

I don't own either. My "big gun" is a 30-06, with 200 grain bullets.


300 Win mag
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.300+Winchester+Magnum.html

35 Whelen
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.35+Whelen.html

For me, the .35cal 200gr has a SD of .223 compared to the .30cal 200gr of .301, makes the two not very comparable. Given bullets of similar construction are used in both, the 300 will outpenetrate the Whelen, probably by a sizeable margin. Not to mention the added long range potential of the 300 Win Mag that simply isn't there with the Whelen. Neither is my choice, but of the two, would select the 300 for being a better all around cartridge, being able to handle everything the Whelen can, plus more.

A 220g .300WM bullet has greater sectional density than a 250g bullet for a 35 Whelen and the .300 can shoot them faster.. When I first got my .300WM the first handholds were .308 Win power levels, then .30-06 levels. Didn't have either a .308 or .30-06 at the time. When it comes to flexibility, bullet options and so on, the .300WM is a far more practical choice for most purposes.

The 35 Wheel can shoot .357 pistol bullets, something the .300 WM cannot do.

I noticed one post (there may have been more of a similar nature) that said a deer ran 100 yards after being shot with a .300WM. Yawn. Details matter. Bullet used? velocity and range? Placement? None of the elk and mulies I've taken with my .300WM have taken more than a few steps.

You guys lack imagination. How many feet of dirt behind the dead animal is "enough penetration?" Why would we limit the Whelen to 250 grain bullets?

Is the argument really that there is zero effect by jumping up from 30 caliber to 35 caliber? If that is the argument, I'd argue that you are likely correct, given that 6.5mm non-expanding bullets have been used to kill all of the largest dangerous game animals on the planet many, many times.

The question then becomes, "Why are you shooting a 300 Win Mag, when Creedmoor ballistics kill the largest game, and very effectively?

C.H, 180 Partition @ 3000fps 150 yards standing side ways hit behind shoulder, thru both lungs and out w/1'' hole, but the deer knew something was up and ran like hell after the shot. Happens some times.

Won't a Whelen shoot a 180 gr TSX Barnes bullet quite fast? 3,000? Be Well, Rustyzipper.

There is a nice 35 Whelen "tanger" M77RS listed in the classifieds

Good question, the .300 mags are probably obsolete today given the bullets we have available. This wasn't always the case, I bought my 1st one in 1985 way before the Creedmoor. The one pictured is on it's 3rd stock, 2nd bottom metal, 3rd scope, and I'm quite sure the original barrel looks like a dry lake bed when viewed with a bore scope. I think I might keep it a while longer.

I hope you do, and I hope you or whomever you give or sell the gun to after you are done with it rebarrels for the same 300 Win Mag. Nothing wrong with it, and a lot that's right. It's even gotten better since the 80's with innovations in powders, bullets, and optics. For an everyman's Western hunting rifle, it's hard to argue with just picking a 300WM and going out the door.

I don't like that level of recoil in hunting-weight rifles, and can only shoot them "good enough" in small doses. Others don't seem to have that limitation.

When I started hunting deer with 223's, it was a revelation to me regarding recoil and noise and how they affect my ability to shoot well. I'd not been willing to admit it to myself before the first couple deer with a 223. I shoot lesser kickers producing less noise upon firing not only consistently better, but effortlessly and confidently better. That understanding comes into play when I go hunting now.

I still hunt with harder kickers. I load the Whelen clear to the eyeballs, and the same with the 444 and 45-70. They are fun to carry and hunt with, and they do the job, just like the 300WM.

The .300 magnums are obsolete? Hardly. I like my .30-30, but it is no .308 Win. And my .308 Wins are no match for my .300WM.

HuntnShoot

Fully agree the Boomers can be quite a handful. I'm sure this young man would understand..........that is a .300 love bite.

Coyote hunter

Yep........

The .300 magnums are about as obsolete as my 2005 F150. It may have 170,000 miles on it but it has been well cared for and runs like a champ. The F150 was “retired” in 2012 when I bought a far more fuel efficient car for running around in and commuting to work. Both got me to work and back but there are a lot of thing the F150 can do that the smaller, more fuel efficient car cannot.

It is the same with smaller vs. larger cartridges. I regularly practice out to 600 yards and, while I can more easily hit the 4” steel at that range with my light kickers, such as my .243 Win, .257 Bob and 6.5CM, there is an important difference. For hunting purposes my .300WM delivers far more energy and velocity at that range.

Here are some examples, calculated for 600 yards, 7000 feet altitude and 50 degrees F.
2047fps, 1973fpe = .300WM, 212g ELD-X @ 2800fps MV (Hornady reload data)
2210fps, 1897fpe = .300WM, 175g LRX @ 3036fps MV (my hunting load)
1848fps, 1365fpe = .308 Win, 175g LRX @ 2600fps MV (Hornady reload data)
2138fps, 1421fpe = 6.5CM, 140g @ 2791fps MV (my hunting load)

The 175g LRX is what I use for elk and mulies in my .300WM. It delivers as much energy at 600 yards as my 6.5CM/140g ELD-M load does at 280 yards.

Same/Same? Not hardly.

Read a good bit of the article on the .300WM and had to laugh at this:



I've been killing elk with a 7mm RM since 1982 and the only one that lasted anywhere near 45 seconds was poorly hit - my fault. Have killed quite a few with a .300WM and have yet to find a discernible difference in time to death.

I'd take a 300nwin mag over a 35 whelen every day of the week and then some.

I posted this question in the CampFire back 8years ago in 2012 lol.....

Well, it’s had a good run so far!

The Whelen is my choice for a rifle with a 20" barrel and doesn't loose the velocity like a 300 win mag will with a 20" barrel!

The 35 Whelen requires far less powder to achieve equal velocities as the 300 win mag

The 35 Whelen barrel will last far longer than a 300 win mag barrel as well!

There is an argument to be made for the superior sectional density of the 300 win mag but if the game you are shooting gets pass thru's Everytime with a 35 Whelen the argument than leans toward the 35 Whelen likely deposited more energy inside the animal due to frontal diameter of the bullet passing thru

For under 300 yards I'd give the edge to the Whelen for versatility

Trystan

It's a great question 😁😁😁

Show me.

Why only question that?
"The Whelen is my choice for a rifle with a 20" barrel and doesn't loose the velocity like a 300 win mag will with a 20" barrel!"

No! Look it up 🤗

Try Speer Data - almost 100fps more velocity with 8 grains less powder...

the Alaska Game Department is highly flawed because the authors were mathematical idiots. And maybe just idiots.

1. The authors got the formula for an ellipse wrong, resulting in a calculated expansion that was 4x greater than it should be, and erroneously skewed the results in favor of expanding bullets regardless of their initial or final diameters.

2. The authors don’t seem know the difference between “retained bullet weight” and “percent retained bullet weight”, or between “bullet expansion” and “percent bullet expansion”.

Using the author’s methodology, the .224” bullet would score 100 in both retained weight and expansion, while the .458” bullet would score 64 and 90 respectively. These interim scores are then multiplied together (along with those for striking energy and penetration, which we will ignore for now) to achieve a final score. Hence the .224” bullet scores 10,000 while the .458” bullet scores 5,760, or a little over half what the .224” bullet scores in these categories. The author’s methodology resulted in silly stuff like a 7x57 Mauser with a 175 grain bullet with a retained weight of 91g outscoring a 12 gauge 438g slug with a retained weight of 420g, even though the slug out-penetrated the 7mm bullet.

It seems to me that it would make much more sense to compare retained weight in grains, not percent, and bullet expansion in inches instead of percent, and base the scores accordingly. In this manner, the .224 scores 55 and .448, which combine to form a score of 25.19, while the .458” bullet scores 364 and .75, for a combined score of 273. I think most of us would agree the .45-70 is more likely to be 10 times more effective than a .22-250 for the purposes cited, rather than half as effective, so this methodology at least passes the laugh test.

I redid the report's table of cartridges using the correct formula for an ellipse and added a column where the measured parameters were ADDed rather than multiplied, but included the multiplied results for comparison with the original report and the ADDed column of results. Contrary to the Alaska Game report, 16 of the top 18 results involved a .458" bullet. A .375" bullet came in at numbers 11 and 18.

You win today’s internet!
If only we could get them to manage mosquitoes ...

Them’s my cinnaments xactly.

I made a 35 W before Rem adopted it.

I had and HAVE a 300 WM now. For ‘my use’ I’ll take the 300 also.

Now, not to besmirch the good Col., I don’t need the heavy (250 gr) bullets
and a 200 or 220 gr 30 cals have higher BC & SD than the corresponding
35 cals.
* some guys don’t know or lose sight of that *

Jerry

To be fair, the Good Col. had the cartridge named after him. It was not his baby.

How does that work in the Taylor Knock-Down Formula?

Larger calibers are efficient, but the rub is picking a decent bullet and then pushing it at greater speeds. Physics says there are limits on what you can do...

I have used a number of Whelens over a very long time... starting in the '60s. I currently own two 35WAI rifles. I have shot a bunch of stuff with one of them over the past 40 years. I have used most 30 magnum cartridges at one time or another and a couple rifles I have used a lot. I went through the Partition phase, the Hornady Phase, even had a Sierra Phase with 30Magnums. Then I found Jesus holding up a box of Barnes... The Whelen ain't close...

I guess it depends on your usage, but I would still have no problem using a 35 Whelen for anything in AK. When it comes to the big nasty stuff, I'd go ahead and take my 35 WAI with a 310 Woodleigh. 4' of penetration in water and 98% weight retention should do just fine. It also has an SD well beyond that of a .308 220 grain pill.



Of course, I also have a 300 Mag (Weatherby), so I can make use of whatever advantage the 30 cal projectiles have if I wanted to. I guess that is why there is more than one cartridge available.

I'm curious how fast you are able to push those 310's, and what powder you are using. I shoot a 315-320 gr cast bullet in a standard Whelen at about 1950 with a sedate load of 42 grains of R-15. I'm sure I could kill anything on the planet with that at will, but I could push it faster.

I am using RL15 for those 310's as well. I was only pushing them 2250-2300fps. The slug was found in the 8th milk jug, having cracked the back - I measured it at 4' to the back of that jug.

I also shoot the NOE Thumper in my Whelens. I use WC852 or WC 852f surplus and worked my way up to 55 grains of WC852f. I water dropped them and used 2500+ lube.

Wow, that's screaming! I've only cast one batch of a few hundred, and cast them hard enough for about 2200 mv according to my calculations and experience. I didn't see the need to push them harder than 1950 because the 42 grains shot so well, but I'll throw more R-15 in cases and see what happens. I use a version of homemade lube formula that Glen Fryxell came up using moly grease, beeswax, and carnauba wax. It works very well for high-pressure/high-velocity loads.

Thanks for the info!

That'a whole lot of bullet!

It is! Obviously not needed for most stuff, but if you need 300+ grains, it should actually penetrate better than a 375 H&H.

I think Gunner runs a 320 Woodleigh in his 9.3x62 around 2400.. Pretty darned powerful combo. Can't imagine those not smacking like a freight train.

I ran the 310 Woodleigh in my 35 WAI at 2400fps with R15. Shot a hog at 30 steps, 40 cal entrance hole, 75 caliber out, soup in between, no blood shot meat! I killed a wad of PG with the 250X originally @2600 then went to the 200X @ 2970fps. That was with a 22" barrel too. But the most "useful" bullet I used was the Barnes 200X and then the 200TTSX (latter was never bloodied) I had the 200x going 2970fps. For grins I tested it sighted +3" @ 100 gave me -3" at 300! I killed zebra at 250 and Black Wildebeest at 347yds. I always hunted with it with a +2"@100, just held on the back of the Black Wildebeast. I still feel that for the majority, a 300WM is a better long range elk rifle. It hits hard, and is flat shooting.

Last time I checked tests, ballistic coefficients and FPS never killed anything. It’s holes in and out letting air and blood out that kills things and that is something the Whelen excelled at. You keep your 300 mag and I will stick with my Whelen making meat. Not punching paper.

It depends on what the hunter expects and is prepared to handle.

I hunted Roosevelt elk with a guy who had one of the most CLASSIC Roosevelt rigs you could imagine: a 22" bolt action in 35 Whelen with a 1-5 Leupold and 225-grain bullets handloaded to 2,600 fps. He expected—and prepared for—a shot in the timber, but the only bull he saw was roughly a quarter-mile out. He passed up the shot and went home empty-handed because he wasn't ready to take it.

He probably could have made that shot with his Whelen had he prepared for it, but the probability of hitting at longer ranges goes WAY up with a 300. Most 300 WM shooters have a long shot in the back of their minds and they prepare for it—which is why they choose the 300 in the first place.

Nice necropost, though.


Okie John

MS

I haven't gone thru this whole thread, it's old. I probably posted moren once.

FOR MY purposes - My Purposes - I'll take the 300 WM over the Whelen. I made one before Rem adopted it and
I liked it. However it isn't nearly as versatile as the 300 can be.

FPS does translate into FLATTER trajectory. FPS does translate into flatter trajectory.

It's GOOD we all don't prefer the SAME things. Variety is a good thing. Again, I like the 35 Whelen but for
My Purposes I'll take the 300 WM.

Jerry

Howboutthat ?

Okie posted AS I was typing and the focus is the same.

Jerry

Anyone ever neck up 300WM to 35 or 36?
Now there is an idea!

Ya wouldn’t be bad, between a 358 nm and a 358 sta. The new whelen loads via Speer though, I’ll stick to my whelen

WIENIE !



Hey, my 8 mini mini RM kicks ENUFF !


Jerry

Who on this forum is old enough to remember Elmer Keith sadly shaking his head and saying "he's gone high velocity."

I'll never admit it !! LOL

As MD et.al. have said, Elmer didn't have velocity failures.....

he had BULLET failures ! YES when bullets don't live up to publicity.....they FAIL !

Jerry

One blowhard this year, shot a 50+ inch moose cross river from my place, 7 times with a 28 nosler. Was that typical long range tool with a 16 inch long scope with what had to be greater than 50mm objective.

35 whelen (or any standard medium bore), represents everything Id want in a general purpose Alaskan rifle. The 300 win mag represent everything Blood shot mess, that I wouldn't want in a rifle.

338 federal, 338-06, 358 winchester, 35 whelen, 9x57 9x62.

Go up in caliber, down a bit on velocity. Ask Doctari what that does for penetration.....

AND some people can't CHOOT ! !


Jerry

I'll.play, but will color outside the lines.

I don't like belted cases, so the 300 Win mag would never be on my list, so Between the two, I'd take the 35 Whelen.

Now for the coloring outside the lines. I'd take a 30-06 with a 200 grain bullet over either for them.

As bullets improved, Elmer embraced higher velocities, such as the .334OKH and .338-378KT. He remained convinced that the .33 caliber was an improvement over .30 and under. When others sneered that he was using "overkill" he responded by asking"what, you mean they will be overdead?"