http://www.thediyhunter.com/big-gam...bullets-tsx-ttsx-243-wssm-270-wsm-rifles

Searching for pics of 80 TTSX recovered post kill, found the above article on elk kills w/243 and 270.

I think it's worth reading the comments of Barnes vs. Accubonds...on Elk.

Anyone w/a post kill recovered 80 TTSX in 6mm, feel free to post pics.

No way to recover a 6mm 80ttsx as every one ever fired into a game animal is still in orbit after a thru and thru.

Didnt you know it makes the 243 into an adequate grizzly rifle? Only marginal for cape buff thouh

But alas i will be shooting 180 accubonds out of my 300 for elk in a couple of weeks...

Those were both WSM's. Impressive penetration.

Oh boy

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood, but a .243 is not a friggen Elk round.

I'd not hesitate to poke one through the lights with an 85 out of my 243, given the opportunity and appropriate circumstance. I have complete confidence in the combo.

It'll do it, but would not be my first choice.

With 100 gr Partitions, I might try it,but if he were a truly big bull, I'd probably shoot him with my camera instead.

Would not hesitate to shoot elk with 80 TTSX or 85TSX in the .243

Not my first choice, but no problemo tripping the trigger with that combo.

Have killed them with a .243 and 100 Gr Nosler PT, and with Hornady 100 gr Interlocks...

As many people have said...not my first choice for an elk cartridge, but I have done the job with my .243 and a 100 gr. Nosler PT. The 85 gr. TTSX would not be a problem either.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

I'd urge folks to find whatever combo gives them complete confidence, then stop frequenting sites like this & go shoot more critters.

I've been given grief over my Complete Confidence Combo, but I somehow keep killing stuff with it, with 1 shot.

FC

You guys crack me up.

1) I was not advocating, only sharing info

2) My point was to show what a 243 80TTSX load can do

3) Yes, its in a WSSM but a 243 Win is not far behind w/light bullets like an 80 gr.

4) I feel comfortable popping an elk w/a 129-130gr in 6.5mm, or larger bullet, BUT if a 243/Barnes was all I had, I would not pass up an elk...I'd get my knife dull after I popped him, whether once or 3x, the 243 will kill elk dead, but you don't want to shoot long range, nor muck up your shot placement.

What I found most interesting was not that it was any surprise an 80 Barnes dropped elk, but HOW the author saw differences between TYPES of bullets used, and how animals react. And how you use various bullets.

You will note he purposefully hit bone to initiate expansion, a good idea esp. when shooting far and impact speed drops, when using a mono.

So, I hope this clears up WHY I posted the link and the intended 'take away' - no doubt the subject line got some attention.

As to post-kill photo mention, that was open for all, but meant for deer/hogs as that is more than likely the bulk of where 243 Barnes end up in game. I'd just like to see how it compares to say the 85 TSX, likely little difference.

When we host "sight in days" for visiting hunters and watching a lot of visiting hunters shoot their new Eargosplittinloudenboomer, judging from their performance, many would be better off using a 243.

My wife has shot a dozen or so elk with her BLR in .243 win. She is very picky about her shots and likes to hunt in dark timber where they are at close range.

Funny you say that, guy next to me yesterday had a GAP 270 WSM, they built a gun out of his action, complete w/a varmint fluted sendero contour bbl. Good for steadying....not so good for toting, no doubt he was a stand hunter.

I LIKE the ballistics of the 270 - inc. in the WSM, but I must say it has some real blast as most magnums. It was rather 'Sharp' and loud I must say.

When I dropped 2 - 243 bullets from my cold bbl into 11/16" at 200 yds, followed by the next 2 shots from the cooled off bbl, into UNDER 1/4", I thought, its just NOT that complicated.

SHOT placement...w/a good bullet. Cartridge name, horsepower, etc. is usually the least important assuming a good hit is made using any reasonable round.

Dead is dead and a 100 dead elk w/243s or 10,000 won't convince others it's adequate. Ideal, no, not given varying shot presentations, distances, etc. etc. BUT adequate...entirely when used w/in it's limits...of the bullet choice...WITH good vitals shot placement. Not my first choice on elk, but if it will take elk down, a deer/hog is a no brainer, truly.

I challenge ANY living elk to let me have on broadside hit with a 243 and an 80-85 Barnes up to 250 yds. Just ONE shot. I'd bet all I have EVERY said elk shot WILL die. And to go further, a 223 w/63 TSX will likely accomplish the same, though I'd put a floor of the 24 bore as a minimum on elk, under ideal conditions for it...not perfect mind you, just working within the limits of what it will do. I'd suspect MOST states require a 24 bore as minimum on elk.

I think the 243 is HIGHLY misunderstood, largely for 3 reasons:

1) Poor bullet choice...varmint bullets have no place for the most part, in pursuing large game in a 243/6mm. Also, modern bullet technology has added many more good bullets options for deer sized game.

2) Shot placement - NOTHING will kill if vitals are not hit, OR if you MISS completely. When an animal runs off and lost after the bang, can anyone TRULY KNOW w/100% certainty, it's the cartrige/bullets fault? Without KNOWING where a bullet hits, or IF it hit, or where it traveled after impact and what it did from entrance to it's resting place, you simple CANNOT conclude.

3) Ego's. I see it all too often. Men think it's just cool to shoot the big stuff.

I have NO qualms w/someone using as large a rifle as they can shoot well. I don't like being around them at the range as my ears hurt and sometimes they rock my bench! LOL.

SOME guys must think it's simply - NOT Manly..to use a 243. Meanwhile 260s and 7/08s have been in voque, ESP. w/deer hunters, and rightfully so. Lower recoil than say an '06 - the number one ctg. in the USA more than likely gives those shooters the ability to practice more, AND flinch MUCH Less, if at all. That = shot placement which = dead game.

I'd venture to say, show me a deer/hog that will die any slower using a 243 w/80-85 Barnes shot within 300 yds, than using a 260 or 7/08 w/cup core of choice. I'd argue statistics if obtained by a good sampling of similar shot placement would show equal effectiveness in how dead deer are post 243/Barnes hits

Not trying to convert anyone mind you, but I think 243/6mm's have been wrongly snubbed by many as too small for men. MY experience when using good bullets w/shot placement mirrors others who have done the same. Vitals taken out, deer/hogs die fast.

And lastly, 243s I am not saying are only effective w/Barnes, watched my son HAMMER deer w/85 BTHP Sierras out to 275 and 300 yds, and have used 100 Partition, and 95 Ballistic tips many times. Even neck shot and lung shot a couple w/70 TNTs. NO deer required a 2nd hit, and none ran any further after hit than any round used on average. Lung hits ran 30-60 yds. Typically of what I have seen using 7mm Mag, 7mm-08, 260s, 270s, etc.

I even had a small deer run 100 yds when trying out a rifle I built for elk hunting, a 338/06 w/200gr ballistic tip. As she ran TOWARD me then turned after I punched her, I could see the exit, red blood pumping out and what looked like a silver dollar exit - blood stain. I'd bet that little deer would have dropped quicker had I used what I had wanted to try that year on deer, a 6mm TCU, using 85 BTHP Gk's that my son used above in a 243. I believe the lighter more frangible bullet would have caused more trauma INSIDE that small deer due to how the bullet would have acted.

As a side note, had another good sized buck drop in 3 bounds after hit w/a raking shot from the rear, bullet stopping under hide shedding 80 of the 200 grains after busting offside shoulder. That was at 25 yds....another nice buck at 200yds dropped in tracks when the 200BT hit at the neck/shoulder juncture. NO doubt a 243 would have produced the same results. Shot placement was why it was a DRT. Nearly decapitating a doe w/my former Ruger #1 Mannlicher and using 70 TNTs, she also 'Dropped in tracks' dead.

Those who DOUBT 243s, do so, b/c they 'heard' bad stories or just cannot conceptually grasp it's ability. The ONLY cure for those in denial or ignorance of a 243/6mm's capabilities, is to USE one, chamber good bullets and place it thru vitals.

It WILL get the job done...if the shooter does their job.

Partitions, Speer 105s, Hornady 100s, etc. etc. all have done a good job over history.

YET, if someone wants recommendations for hunting deer/hogs, etc. with a 24 bore, here is my pick.

1) 80 TTSX and 85 TSX (or old XBT). Federal Premium loads the 85 TSX, and Barnes the 80 TTSX in factory Vortex line.

2) 95 Ballistic Tip (it's NOT soft or explosive, it's MEANT for serious use on big game - proven time again on deer/elk, and larger - penetration and retention, with good expansion is how I'd explain it). For factory ammo, look at Winchester Ballistic Silvertip line.

3) 90 Swift Scirocco SSII - assuming your accurate in YOUR rifle. May be some factory ammo, seems Rem was loading swifts in the past - not sure, but one or more mfg. may load these SSIIs.

I could hunt with others inc. the 90 BTs or 90 Etips, and might someday try the 90 Accubonds as I love them in my 130gr 260 and 6.5x55 loads, but I just don't think they will do anything the 95 BT will do given that BT has a rather stiff jacket for a 6mm.

As a side note, some 6mm shooters use fast twist barrels for accuracy with high BC bullets like the amax 105gr vld. My furthest deer kill, ranged at 400 yds dropped using the Amax from a 6mmBR (think 243 'short') - double lunged - she went 20-25 yds.

Those wanting a light recoiling, flat shooting, accurate round, that will kill deer/hog sized game very effectively, don't discount a 243 if you are not yet a believer. Your ears and shoulder must might thank you if you try one!

FWIW I started out w/a 7mag, went thru several 270s, 7/08s, 260s, 6.5x55s, 243s, 6BRs, 7BR, 338/06, etc.

In the past I liked the 270 and 7/08s very much, but as time went on and I used the smaller 6mm and 6.5mm rounds more and more on deer, I realized they killed just as well, and as a bonus, I could enjoy longer range sessions shooting more rounds in a given day, all pain free to my shoulder and ears.

The biggest bonus beyond that, is FLINCH FREE trigger control IMPROVING your hit ratio....accuracy. THAT is the BEST way to affect outcomes in the field, improving shooting skills, IMHO and IME.

FWIW, I'll choose a 243 ANY day over a 300 mag for deer, it's just me b/c I know 'dead = dead' no matter how you get there

Whatever you decide to use, just pick a good bullet, and put it where it belongs, thru vitals, all else will work out in the field.

Good shooting....and hunting guys/gals.

BeanMan - you are no 'Grasshopper' LOL. Do tell her bullet choice. At close ranges I am sure a plain WW powerpoint or RP corelokt will do, assuming lung shots, or neck?

Love the BLR build quality, fast handling and accurate. What sights/scope does she use? Congrats on her shooting and hunting success, she learned well!

Here's a picture of my son and his first elk taken last year at 350 yards with one shot from his 6mm Remington. The bullet was a 90 gr. Nosler E-tip at 3160 fps. He was laying prone and using his bipod and put the bullet right behind her right shoulder and it exited her left shoulder. She staggered about 25 yards and went down. Yes the 243 and 6mm are light for elk but with good bullets and good shot placement will do the job. I've taken one spike bull with my 6mm using a 100 gr. Nosler Partition. I killed him at about 30 yards in heavy timber. Shot him right on the point of his right shoulder and the bullet exited just in front of his left shoulder. He staggered a couple steps and I put one more at the base of his ear. It was not necessary, but I didn't want him going anyplace.

a 257 roberts with 80 gr. ttsx's would be a great combo too.

i'm sure the bullet would blow right on thru.

one these forums, there are those that ask... and those that do..

off forum, there are those that criticize and those that just unceremoniously do...

( this wasn't aimed at you Cliff)...

you get guys and gals in places like Montana, that just get out and do it, in spite of what the 'experts' claim... guess they don't know any better... so that is why it doesn't fail for them...

6mm- Great photo man! Congrats on you/your sons success.

The irony of that story - had the same story been told but instead you changed out the '243' with a 270, 7/08, 7 Mag, etc. everyone would say, 'too light? - heck no!'

Thanks for sharing. BTW, what rifle is that, I see on 2nd glance it has a silver handle like a Ruger....but not sure since the stock looks more like a Remington or a Boyds aftermarket.

With good bullets, a 24 gives as much penetration as most any other typical round.

The only question to answer is whether one thinks the terminal damage from the bullet will be enough to quickly kill the animal. From my experience, I answer yes.

There is always going to be the human factor in killing animals quickly and humanely with small pieces of metal (and 250 grains is still a relatively small bit of anything.) That said, can does not equate to will. It takes some human application to take a combination of things : cartridge, bullet, rifle; to will. The 243 requires more of the human factor IMO.

I've used both the 6mm and 7mm-08 to put a lot of caribou on the ground (and at least one moose each). Though both were unquestionably lethal, the 7 seemed to hold a noticeable edge in putting them there quicker.

Too little. I think that the the .243 is too little for big KS whitetails, but what do I know. A WSSM is akin to a .240WBY. An antelope/varmint deluxe.

It is hard for me to understand how any healthy adult could leave a good larger caliber rifle in the safe and take any .24 on an expensive elk hunt that had the chance for a lifetime bull.

Klik - guess it depends how fast you want to eat

I bet the Moose showed longer times to drop then the 'bou' but that said, seen alot of video footage of Moose taking 300 Mag hits, and looked like they had time to say 3 Hail Mary's before falling!

croldfort, thinking is cured by knowing. Just saying, any properly hit KS deer is not going to survive a 95 Ballistic tip, Barnes 80-85gr, or other decent bullet, thru vitals.

Re: 243 Win vs. WSSM -

85 Barnes at 3334 in a 243 Win (Barnes 2010 load data), vs. the author's WSSM above claiming 3500 on his elk shot at 132 yds (a std. 243 WIN would have killed that elk - DEAD).

The author mentions another elk at 272 yds w/80 at 3360. Here again a 243 Win and 80s...Barnes own data 2010 shows a load for 3467 fps. FASTER than the above WSSM load that killed the elk.

As I mentioned, with lighter bullets, the cases produce speeds more similar, than not.

Never was recommending the 243 on elk, but sharing it's effectiveness above and beyond what many who have either NOT used 24 bores on large game, or not used them with good bullets and shot placement.

Bad shot placement and/or the wrong bullet = wounded/unrecovered game regardless of headstamp.

I haven't killed enough moose with either to form an opinion there- and as you noted, they rarely just fall down anyway. But caribou have shown a significant difference in how quickly they go down.

I've become a big fan of the .243 - enough that I was willing to wait 2 1/2 years for the recent build I just got.

For me the biggest reason I like the .243 is - I enjoy shooting that caliber so I shoot more, which I suppose will make me a better shooter:)

I Like the 243 and have one myself. I do however consider it a deer cartridge and don't think it would be my first choice for larger game. I am sure it would kill an elk but it is sort of like using a 223 for deer. It will work fine most of the time but leaves a larger margin of error than I want to take since I have better alternatives.

65BR - elk are big and give me a great excuse to own and hunt with a bigger rifle! For goodness sake, don't tell my wife all I need is the little 6mm Remington we've had around the house since the 1970's! How in the heck am I going to justify the .30-06 and my other big rifles?

These discussions are fun, and so is shooting a small-bore like a 6mm, .243 or a .25-06 hunting rifle. I think that for elk, I personally prefer a little bigger rifle, but will readily concede that the small bores will work. Early last month I was carrying my .25-06 with bear and elk tags in pocket. Sadly, didn't get a chance to shoot either. Just yesterday my son and I were practicing with the 6mm Rem at the range, and I instantly remembered why it's such a favorite. So very easy to shoot it well.

Regards, Guy

The .243 was designed to be a combination varmint/deer cartridge, why any reasonable hunter would choose it for larger game is beyond me. My choice for elk is .338 Winchester Magnum with 275gr. handloads, a well placed shot has never failed to make a wapiti into elk steaks and a trophy on my wall. I have also used my .35 Whelen loaded with 225gr. Trophy Bonded Bearclaw bullets, it too is very effective on elk.

First choice? That depends on parameters for the selection. Can it reliably kill elk? yes. My 243AI has several elk on it.

Classic...

Read this again, lest you missed Klikitariks point..


If there is a advantage to using the .243 as your main elk or moose rifle over another, larger caliber, then lets hear it..

Recoil??

Well then a well placed shot with a .22 Hornet will flatten a moose and it will be dead before you get to it even if you are only 25' away from the animal when you take the shot..
Lets all go elk hunting with Hornets and get within bow range..
That'll will work won't it..

I agree with Nrut . Why use a .243 when a Hornet will do ! Everybody knows that the .243 Win. is overkill on Elk . You know , it's real easy to tell if a guy is a true sportsman by the questions they ask .

with the right bullet and shot placement it will kill an elk. would i use it ,hell no. i don't even like it for deer. i know a guy that has deer hunted for years with a 243 using 85grn hp bullets. he kills deer but he will never tell how many he's lost.

you guys that live in elk country and get to hunt them every year may do it,but i can't hunt them often. i wanta make sure he dies if i shoot him.

Everybody knows that the problem you run into with those TSX and TTSX bullets is "way over-penetration!" Their performance tends to embarass those who want to lob two pound cannon balls.

Jim

Thanks Klik - I figured a 'bou' was quicker about jumping into the pot and they'd drop about as fast as any well hit deer, despite their size.

Moose, well, they just have alot bigger 'Heart' ...

Re: deer vs. this vs. that...

Wiki shows a Whitetail or Mulie usually tops around 300lbs though a few large WT will go 375 or more, and one 511 lbs was killed in 1926 in MN. Caribou go to 460 lbs it says for bulls.

Elk - also found in KS per game regs - wiki shows average 700 lbs where as the Roosevelt elk in Alaska, etc. can top 1,300.

So Jordan, not sure which 'deer' Croldfort was referring to, WT/Mulie/even Elk, but none the less, if you take out vitals, everything around them dies as life stops was my point (varying size of a species not so relevant IMO).

Not meant to ridicule anyone here as outside a little ribbing we all occasionally do, I try respecting all, regardless of our different experiences and opinions. That said, I do believe actual results matter, and I strongly believe ALL deer of any size will die the same w/a good bullet thru vitals.

Thanks guys.

Losing animals rarely has anything to do with cartrige choice.

As for primary elk rifle? Where's the fun in that? I shoot a critter with a given rifle/load, and then try something else. It's no fun to keep shooting them with the same thing. On the down side, it's kinda exspensive sticking to this habit; but with many different species of game animals, each needing at least one animal to be killed with each of my rifles, the combinations are vast. Then you toss in load changes and other weapons, different bows that I own, handguns..., it's good to know I will never run out of new things to try.

Amen to that.

This thread reminds me of a native Alaskan I met a few hunting seasons ago. He was visiting friends and trying some whitetail hunting.

I asked him what he had along to hunt with and he told me ".223 Rem. I use it for everything but moose."

"what do you use for moose?" "Oh, we use big guns for moose. Marlin 30-30"

Spencer,

Agreed.

Cartridge choice has more to do w/emotion and confidence - IMO.

Killing - has more to do w/bullet choice and shot placement - IME.

Tzone - likely the indian was 'over-penetrating' w/223s on Moose - Or he had not tried 63 Tsx's....

Spencer & 6.5 - I understand and agree that a decent bullet of any size thru the VITALS will definately kill ANY animal or man.

My position is that the LARGER hole in & out AND the LARGER area of vitals destroyed YIELDS a FASTER demise, therefore less distance traveled by the game. The bigger the game the more important it is.

upper case for emphasis > not yelling.

I don't believe less damage to vitals = same quickness to ground.

Not the best but it will do with a vital shot with the proper bullet.

.270WSM with 150gr is the minimum for me, but I'd take the .300win mag or my new .300 Weatherby mag if I was going after an elk

Obviously the plain old .270 Winchester won't work.

Saw it work a couple of times JB, with 150gr cup n' core bullets no less.Not sure why anyone would use something most consider marginal (243) unless they were just looking for something to brag about when they have more suitable outfits to use. Magnum Man

When I look in my safe the cut off starts with my .270wsm with a bonded 150gr. I am not saying my plain jane .270 wont do the job but I'd rather have a tad more oomph behind that 150gr.

To each and their own. I wouldn't be surprised to learn a 9mm glock has killed an elk before........

It is hard to decide what works when its apples and oranges your working with. My buddy used to use a 243 when I was using a 338wm. One day he took a 4x and I took a 3x, mulies, both at around 75 yards. Both dropped, mine having a gapping hole in the offside, his a much smaller hole. Boiler rooms were both just devastated. Noted the same on elk, put a proper mushrooming bullet into the boiler and they die.

He has since jumped to a 308 and I have downgraded to 30-06, he uses Federal fusions and I use accubonds, results same same, the pumps just shut down due to destruction.

1- use a well made bullet
2- aim into the chest - heart / lungs
3- have enough momentum to have half a chance of getting through the offside (energy)

Yep, 243 will work, proven.

That's too bad because studies have been done, and found no relation between cartridge shot and distance animal traveled after. Some show a higher percentage of DOA (dropped on ass). Killing by shock to the CNS is more likely to be achieved with bigger, more powerful cart., if shooting vitals. Personally, if I want to ensure DOA, then I'll shoot the CNS, not try to overwhelm it with an overly powerful bullet hitting somewhere else.

There once was a gunwriter/outfitter/guide by the name of Les Bowman that wrote that the many of his clients would of been better served by a 243 than the magnum rifle they brought.
Back in the good olddays when nonresidents could drive out and buy an elk license in town and then head on up to camp, my cousin that lived in California brought his neighbor out hunting. His neighbor and I both killed real good bulls, he with a 300 wby and me with my only rifle at the time a 243. We were skinning those elk back at camp and he said, you really should get a better rifle to hunt elk with that the 243 just wasn't enough gun. I asked him which of our bulls did he think was deadest, they were both shot twice , both pretty much died where they stood when the first shot took him.. He had no answer for that and never came back.
I don't think I trust the Barnes x bullets enough to expand to use them in any rifle for hunting, but given their solid nature , maybe the 85 grs would do just fine on elk.
Here's a couple of pics of elk and hunters that haven't read what the experts on the internet have to say about whether or not the 243 is a dependable elk rifle, both animals were hit twice at about 200 yds, both died with in a few yds of the first round hitting home.

Speed is your friend with the TSX, and that bullet in a .243 is formidable.

"I hear ya knockin, but ya can't come in." I wasn't talking about DRT (dropped right there) but quicker death due to more vital tissue disrupted. The more things that DON'T work, the quicker body hits the ground.

Ranch, nice pics, what bullet(s) if you know sir? Also, as to expansion, I used an 85 XBT on a hog, pics here on the link..you can see the recovered bullet and how it did...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...ger_1_International_Who_has_#Post3091822

Also, TT - was the 9 used as a Coup de Grace...or just a random shot opportunity? Head or neck?

Mule Deer - I am sure a 7.366-06 aka .290 Barsness Express would be Mucho Grande Betta

65, I don't know anything about the load on the top elk.
The bottom one I do know there was a box of PMC 100 gr factory loads on the dashboard of his pickup.

Have never killed an elk but would not be skeered to take a poke at an elk w/my 250AI and 43.0gr of RL19 topped of w/100gr TSX @ 3000fps. powdr

13- who'd thunk those cheap PMCs would drop an elk - in a 243 at that!

powdr - like thw way you think, great round.