Hey, I would just like to know if he is still around, or did "terrorist-rifle Jim" go away?

I ask this because I had an older guy that has been a huge Zumbo-Mumbo-Jumbo fan call me on it, so I ditrected him to several internet locales, but that got me thinking.....................

I think he still has a TV show on the Outdoor Chanel.

Saw him at SCI Las Vegas on Feb 4th at the Outdoor Chanel booth

Sorry for the double post!

He just received the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation's Wallace Fennell Pate Wildlife Conservation Award at RMEF's annual convention in Las Vegas earlier this month. Not sure quite what all he did to merit RMEF's highest award, but he got it.

Cook Book Zumbo is still around and sneaked back on the Outdoor Channel after the heat died down from his anti gun comments

Sounds about right

He did a show with Ted Nugent where he was educated on AR style guns and why they are so wonderful; then his show restarted and has been going ever since.

He did write an apology on how on after a long day he went on a personal tirade on why he didn�t want or need a �black� rifle and it really was his only Opinion and he was sorry for over doing it.

What bothered me was how the gun lobby was so quick to throw one of their own under the bus especially after he had a lifetime of pro gun writings.

REMF doing that, dissed us all.

To err is human , to forgive divine ! I'm not an AR fan myself , though probably for different reasons than Mr. Zumbo . I also know if we ever concede any ground to the antis it would never stop , evidently Jim hadn't figured that out at that time . Now on another subject . I find it ironic that a draft dodger like Ted Nugent is an authority on ARs . I place Nugent in the same catagory as Hanoi Jane Fonda . I have given up my membership in the NRA since they made Ted one of their spokesmen !

You going pretty low. Didn't think there is anything lower than Hanoi Jane. She should have been tried as a traitor and shot. I volunteer to be a one man firing squad.

No way! Given the opportunity, I'd be right at your side.

It bothers me too......


Casey

Dumbo threw us under the bus, remember?

I have not forgotten and won't. It's not a matter of forgiving and forgetting.
It's a matter of facing the consequences of his actions. He was a big name in the industry selling us out. He's not sorry for what he said, he's sorry for getting spanked.

I'll boycott any thing he promotes.

You nailed it.........

It is not so hard to understand.

Zumbo has done more writing about and filming of elk hunting than any single hunting rag contributor I know of.

RMEF is an elk hunting and conservation/proliferation foundation -- not a refuge for absoluters on all guns being sacrosanct from any differing opinion. It speaks well for them that they pursued their mission.

I do own an AR, by the way.

1B

Zumbo didn't sell me out. He simply opined that he didn't feel assault rifles belonged in the hunting field. I agree with him but then I also live in a state that does not allow semi auto's of any kind for hunting. Not every gun belongs in the woods or fields. An MG42 or a Browning 1919 would certainly have no place in hunting.

...Thank you oneoldsap---I deeply appreciate not having people like you in the NRA.
Semper Fi,
Greg

You would not be welcome in my camp.

I am amazed the ignorant liberals that show up here.

i can sure think of a lot better rifles i'd choose over an MG-42, and for that matter, i dont hunt with AR's much.... but the key there is that i get to choose, not some ignorant band of azzhats that had the money to get themselves elected and who now want to dictate what i can (or cant) use for hunting.

So do I......

Perhaps you guys should first understand that a true "assault rifle" is capable of select fire....ie full auto as well as semi auto. So essentially, "assault rifles" are most likely illegal to hunt with in every state of the union.I think what Dumbo was talking about were so called "black rifles" or semi only versions of real assault rifles.

While I'm just not into the real McCoy or the wannabe versions, if a guy wants to hunt with an AR and it's legal, have at it. Not a Zumbo fan either, but if you're going to bitch, at least know what you're bitching about.

The antis misuse the term "assault rifle" enough, lets not fan the flames.

Jeff

One thing that is in Zumbo's favor is that he lives in Wyoming where hunting big game with .22 caliber is not legal.

One of his daughters used to work for me and in visiting with him I have nothing but good to say for the man.

There is an image assoc with AR style rifles. Right or wrong, it is there. The image has improved, but cannot understand the need for that image in hunting.

It fits best with predator hunting, as we have waged a perceived war on predators forever. Something about competing for prey species being deeply ingrained in our psyche.

Between whackem and stackem or cookbook Zumbo. I know which person I would rather share a hunting camp with.

Neither surprising nor significant...

DF

Some years back my wife signed up to attend the SCI big game hunting for women program in Granite, Wyoming. A couple of weeks before the week-long event she was diagnosed with a serious illness, but she really wanted to go, so she went. Zumbo was one of the instructors (along with Wayne Van Zwoll) and he realized that she was not well and looked after her for the entire week. She had a great time and still talks about it. For that, I will be eternally grateful to Mr. Zumbo

No he equaled the nation service rifle with the very terrorist enemy we have been forced into waging war on. I could care less about him, he is nothing but a legend in his own mind. There is nothing wrong with the AR it has its uses in the field just like any other fire arm. Now that you can get them chambered is some pretty decent cartridges, they make good rain rifles. And since the new generation, most of whom first exposure to rifles was either with the Army or Marines, these young men and women who might take up the sport, might choose an AR because its what they know. I don't have a problem with that, I never did. Heck I think a Russian Dragunov SDV would make a heck of a rain rifle by the way. I learned to shoot with a 1891/31 Mosin Nagent 7. 62 x 54R. Killed my first head of big game with that rifle, came out of the armory in 1938 my guess it has a heck of a story to tell. I still have it.

amen

Which begs the question, what did you shoot the rest of it with?

I never saw what Jim Zumbo wrote that got everyone in a twist, but I am inclined to give him slack based on what I've seen here. Of course, sitting in Japan, I'm out of the loop.

I have no problem with black rifles, which I understand to be semi-auto versions of those called assault rifles. I do question their suitability for most hunting, but my concern is not the configuration, magazine capacity or fact that they are semi-auto, but rather the cartridges commonly offered. If you are hunting a bobcat or coyote, fine. Larger game, not so fine.

I wonder from what I have seen here if Zumbo would challenge other military rifles in larger calibers. Looks at the venerable 7x57 Mauser, the .303 Enfield, the M-14 or Garand. I suspect he'd not even raise a peep about any of those, in which case I wonder what the fuss is about.

GI Joe wannabes running around with their "Tactical" rifles is a PR nightmare for sportsmen. Trying to make an AR a "Hunting Rifle" is a hard sell on the average person. Its a no sell on me and I've been hunting my entire life. The manufacturers are pushing these things hard for the almighty dollar at the expense of our image. The assault rifle/SHTF wackos have ruined gun shows. Zumbo told the truth.

Assault rifles,IMO are like any other firearm,they belong in the hands of responsible citizens.I don't own one nor do i intend to. But if someone chooes to hunt with one i personally don't see a issue with it.

That's the point. YOU are making a judgment on what should or shouldn't be carried in the field. That's what Zumbo did.

Congrats!

Look, I'm a walnut and blued-steel kind of guy. I don't own an AR-style rifle. However, I would be the last guy in the world to support the state wildlife CO telling me what style of rifle I could take to the field, based on esthetics.

What Zumbo forgot is that the anti-gun crowd tries to use every excuse out there to get firearms outlawed. Zumbo fed that urge in a big way with that weblog post. Granted, he was probably drunk when he did it. That's an explanation-- not an excuse.

I was vehement in my opposition to Zumbo's replacement. I was a 40-something year reader of Outdoor Life, and I cancelled my subscription. My conviction has not waivered in the intervening 5 years, despite his rehabillitation. Why? Because Zumbo words were trancendental. They epitomize the slippery slope that kind of thinking represent.

I think it also put a lot of people on notice. I'm sure Jim Zumbo was not alone in his thoughts. A lot of folks understood what he meant and sympathized with it. Those people can now look back on our reaction to the Zumbo weblog entry and know exactly what we think of it.

So what do you hunt with exactly...???? A model 70 maybe from your handle?

IF so, I"m sad to inform you, you also hunt with the assault rifle of the day, or even a possibly more dangerous one... a sniper rifle...

Some folks will never learn unfortunately... Zumbo included. It STILL ain't the arrow folks, its the Indian... you are responsible for yourself.

Except for looks can someone tell me the difference between an AR style rifle and a Browning BAR or Remington 750. While I don't own one I always thought a 16" barreled AR in 308 with a low power scope would be just the ticket for hunting whitetail in the thick stuff. Not for firepower reasons but for being able to stay on target without having to move ones hands to work a bolt, lever or pump should you miss or wound. Now with the 30 RAR available I would go that way.

The great thing about the the AR platform is its modularity (is that a word). Buy an upper to match what you're shooting and keep one lower. Switch from .223 to 30 RAR as an example without having to buy a whole new gun. Somthing the Browning and Remington can't do.

Since his screwup, Zumbo has hosted many shows showing the merits of the rifles and many with hunts given to wounded vets.

+1

Of course I was making a judgment. That was my intent.

I'm glad my state keeps black rifles and SK's and AK's out of the woods!

IMO from a hunting standpoint.......none.You could by 20 round clips for either one.

Just another divide and conquer tactic from the anti's and some unimformed lobbyist trying to whisper in the left ear of leftwing liberal.

Megga Dittos....

I had another hunter tell me that my H&R Topper was inhumane because of the abhorrent accuracy and the inability to have a quick follow up shot to "humanely dispatch" the animal in case of a wounding shot. The only thing he liked about my hunting rig was the VariX III scope I had on it. We all had a good laugh when I was the only one back in camp with a buck after two days of hunting.

Mountaineer, I would rather be on the side of too many choices than too little of choices.

I still find it hard to believe there are folks out there, that would limit my choices rather than my actions.

Guess I"ll have to start up the sniper crud so we can just ban all weapons period.

Why don't we act responsibly so we don't lose our ability to hunt?

"What bothered me was how the gun lobby was so quick to throw one of their own under the bus especially after he had a lifetime of pro gun writings."

I don't know that the 'gun lobby' did but a lot of individuals about had a heart attach at an opinon divergent from their own. I was happy to hear his opinion and value his record on firearms and their use, he had the gonads to state what he thought, take it or leave it.

To proclaim him speaking his mind to be a gun rights disaster was not only wrong - no writer has that much influence - but was vastly over analysed, criticised and demagogued; WE should NOT react like liberals!

....bravo rost495....a quote worth memorizing and repeating frequently.

Exactly. And I will add to it keep our real sporting autos like the Remington 1100s and 742s.

Of course....

DFTFT fellas...

+1

DF

Acting responsibly has to do with your actions, not your choice of firearms. Pretty damn simple too.

YOu are the type of person that does not understand that under the frame, there is still a 350... the body style has always been up to the purchaser.. its the same here. My ARs are the same as my 1100s and 1187s, benellis and so on.

You are the type of person just like Zumbo, that will throw us ALL under the bus eventually and once done, when they come for your "sniper rifle" there will be no one else left to stand up for your "rights"

I also suspect you've never heard the name Neimoeller....... might behoove you to research one of his famous quotes.

All this being said, even if you continue to hate on my ARs(BTW on deer I've NEVER fired more than one round out of the AR, pigs are another story...) I"ll still fight for your 1100s and 742s until I no longer can. I"d think asking you to reciprocate as a free gun owner would not be too much to ask.

But we may well be at the point of DFTFT.

First off it's Niem�ller and not Neimouller or however you spelled it. Secondly I don't believe this country will ever ban all sporting arms. Miltary style arms? Probably. But not much else other than handguns and that's only a maybe.

That's why I try not to act like Rambo while hunting........

There are alot of people in England and Australia who thought like you.

My AR is chambered for 308. It's a Rock River Arms LAR-8 and is capable of killing any game animal in North America. It also comes chambered in 243 and 7-08, so I guess people have choices other than the .223.

How quick we forget. Zumbo quote didn't just have to deal with hunting but why anyone would want to own an AR style rifle. Second his words have already been used by the anti's many time as another reason to pass laws against all guns. One of those bills included terms that would have ban "sniper rifles" or aka all bolt action rifles including that custom rifle with exhibition wood grade stock.
It's the classic division of hunter's versus gun owners that the anti's want to use againt us. And those who agree with Zumbo are friends of the anti crowd. This is the trick they used in the 80's and 90's and still we believe it today. If we don't stand together on AR's, if you like them or not, than they WILL come for you "sniper rifle". They already tried.

I forgot to mention the hunting Zumbo was referring to was prarie dog and other varmits. And those AR are excellent for those type of hunting. Varmit style AR look nothing like the M4 Carbine that most of the soldiers use.
At one time the BAR, Remington 870, Mauser were all military guns and have found their place in the hunting world. So be careful when you throw around those "tatical ninja" type words. Your bolt action and pump shotgun fit that catagory at one time.
Owning a gun and the second amendment means more than just hunting.

Nothing wrong with ARs, heck I even took an Antelope with one: DPMS 260 Rem LR model with S&B 4-16x50. It only weighed 14 pounds all up with the bipod. It would shoot as well as my Super Grade M 70 270 WCF that weighs 6 pounds less and has a longer effective range.
Yup they will kill game but they tend to be heavy, have terrible triggers (as sold), cost more than an equally good hunting rifle and can't do a thing, in the hunting fields, a Remington 742 or Benelli R-1 can (except be heavy and clumsy). Zumbo screwed up and said so. As for dropping your NRA membership because you dislike Ted is akin to divorcing you wife to marry your Mother-in Law. Every shooter in the former British Empire and England as well, would give their left nut to have an NRA. We won't even let non members join our gun club ! When the Kenyan is re-elected by the mob, he will be after our guns first thing. Then it will get interesting...welcome to 1860.

+1!!
Hey, don't Remington 7600's come in...........wait one......BLACK, slingin lead w no regard to life or limb.

Some of you guys amaze me. I have used a bolt gun to harvest every big game animalI've taken, but that has nothing to do with what you choose to sling on your shoulder.

Wait 'till they come for yours, sadly, if that day comes, it'll be too late.

Well it does seem that Jim�s poorly thought out blog has had much more of a positive effect than the intended negative effect on so called black guns. The whole incident forced many fence riders in the industry to pick a side and even made Jim reconsider his position. In the end it seems to me to have been a good thing.

I am amused by the knuckleheads that think the AR has no place �hunting fields�. Just like all my other rifles it has a job and does that job better than anything else I own. It is quite ironic that Zumbo himself would now disagree with those that are supporting his foolish statement from so long ago. Some guys live and learn and others will go to their grave stuck in the same rut.

When I got my first AR (early 90s) it was unusual to see one at the range in Cody WY but these days it seem to be one of the most popular rifles that guys take out for a fun afternoon of shooting.

I can't think of a better predator calling rifle for doubles and triples..
To bad we can use them up here in Canada for hunting..

That's why I like the Lar-8 Predator model I own. 8.5pounds, 2 stage match trigger, air gauged chryo treated stainless barrel, and the ability to use the millions of FAL mags floating around the world.

So , just exactly what are people like me ? Are you refering to pro gun veterans , or people that speak their minds , and don't take crap from anybody ? So who's your buddy , Ted or Jane . I really enjoy seeing Ted excersise the rights he didn't have nads enough to fight for ! You have a nice day Greg , and I support your right to your opinion too !

I'm not too keen on Hanoi Jane, but get a kick out of Uncle Ted. What's he done that has you upset?

DF

Uncle Ted is probably the most outspoken supporter of hunters and gunowners rights there is. We need more people like him in the public spot light and less cowards like the RINOs in Washington.

What ever he did doesn't even compare to Hanio Jane and it happened 40+ yrs ago. There's a saying more people should live by, "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". People make mistakes and they learn from them, not even the Founding Fathers of this Country were without faults.

As I recall Ted was in college and that was a reason for not drafting people at the time. It is the Senate I believe who drafts people. If they didn't want to draft him then it is on them not Ted.

Don't get me wrong, I like the AR for it's intended use. I had a pre-ban Colt that I used for USAF High Power matches. They are nice house guns and for law enforcement/security use. I do wish they hadn't taken over the gun shows but I suppose folks will sell whatever people will buy.

Why do you wish they hadn't taken over? Seriously?

One of the "assault weapons" prior to the AR15 was the 03 springfield. I doubt you have anything against bolt guns in the hunting fields or gun shows.

Folks like you are not strong 2nd amendment supporters. Thats how you loose all your rights eventually. Why can I not have military style arms? Are my MZ not military style arms from an era basically? Heck I even hunt with a civil war musket.

Why can't I have handguns.

Where does it boil down to the item being an issue rather than responsible use?

You are using the train of thought that could also ban vehicles RE DWI and ban pharmacies from selling legal meds because someone might choose to use them incorrectly or sell them......

Rost, well said...give them an inch, they'll take a mile. anyone really believe they'll stop with banning "just those evil assault rifles"? sorry, i dont trust their good motives on that issue.

good quote by Emerson comes to mind..

"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory."

What it boils down to is the folks on this forum and others that don't care about "assault weapons" or "hand guns" or "belly guns", because they don't have a use for them. Since they don't use them and don't see a purpose for them, they could care less if they get banned. That is as ignorant as it comes.

Put that same pistol hating person in a high crime area with their family, NO weapons and no cops and they would be CRYING for a hand gun of some sort.

Put the "black rifle" hating person in a helicopter doing hog control to save the family ranch from bankruptcy, with a bolt action rifle and they would be BEGGING for an AR-15.

Just because you don't like a certain style of firearm, don't be ignorant and throw those that do under the bus. We are all on the same team. ALL firearms have been "assault" weapons from one era or another. Flinch

Incrementalism is how the Nazi's took over Germany. A little bit at a time. That's why we can't give up any rights, they're all precious. The 2nd Amendment covers firearms, not just the ones I have. I can't let black rifles go, or handguns go, just because I don't have one. We stand together or we perish together. The Gremlins will divide and conquer if we allow them to. "Moderates" need to grow a set and stand with real men.

DF

One poster corrects my spelling, complete with umlat....

Yet has NO clue what the real meaning of the quote is. Damn shame.

Wish only some folks would open their hearts and minds, instead of getting old, cranky and block headed. Those same folks might even still have us fighting battles with the 03.... and you know how good that gun was for its purpose, and how wrong it would be today....

Flinch... my man, VERY well stated. I applaud your post.

Jeff

So I have read all post and several things crossed my mind.
The term "he threw us under the bus" has been used several times. I think that implies intent to have a negitive impact on the second amendment. I do not think that was Zumbo's intent, he was mearly expressing an opinion.
If he had said "I do not like single shots for hunting, do not know why anyone would use them", do any of you think he would have triggered the conflict and debate that still lingers today. Single shots are not a hot political, gun rights topic, AR/black rifles are.
Let's not give up the right to free speach while trying to protect the right to bear arms. Let's protect all our Constitutional Rights.
Let's not continue to attack each other over a difference of opinion. We are all gun owners who support the 2nd. I do not have an AR (do have a couple single shots), but have been considering one and believe, like most things in life, it is a personal choice, and a choice I do not want taken away.
Lastly, let's hope we all can learn from our mistakes and make positive changes. I think Zumbo did. Doesn't mean you need to support him, but he is not an evil troll for the antis either.

If he'd have said what you say about single shots, basically I don't see the need to use one or why anyone would want one, I'd assume the same thing... he's on the side to get rid of single shots.

OTOH if he said they are fine weapons, and many enjoy them, but they don't appeal to me personally or something along those lines, it would have been a bit different to me.

But as a WRITER, you choose your words, he choose poorly and has to pay the price. No different than scewing up at work etc...

He picked on a firearm whose elimination is widely regarded as the "camel's nose under the edge of the tent". Everyone remembers the "assault weapons" ban. The antis would waste no time trumpeting the fact that a prominent outdoor writer and hunter sees no need for black rifles in our sport. Therefore, they must be the choice of criminals and terrorists and we need to ban them again.

...If you are indeed "old" and a veteran and not just a pretender, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and choose to believe that you're simply disfunctionally naive and not mind numbingly stupid. Quiting the NRA because you think Nuge avoided the draft is room-temperature-IQ-behavior though, my friend.
....actually, no, because that would include me.
...now you're just sounding like an 8th grader on the playground trying to sound post-pubescent. If you don't become more well spoken, at least take the "old" out of your cyber-moniker. "onesap" might actually be more appropriate. Tom Selleck also didn't serve, are you equally upset by his involvement? Did you have a hard time differentiating between he and Rosie O'Donnell? Thanks for your service in whatever military branch you chose if in fact your not a wannabe (please tell me you weren't a Marine). I admit that the Nuge leaves alot to be desired on many fronts, but he's been an outspoken voice that communicates "in kind" with the stridency of the left. The NRA has many faults to be sure, but they are far and away the best thing that we have going for us.
Semper Fi,
Greg

I sense that the results are good, too. It would be interesting to see exactly what Jim Zumbo wrote that stirred up such a wide ranging discussion. Has anyone actually seen it? Whatever it is, I don't seen any lasting harm given the current state of gun sales in the US.

One of my friends in the US was telling me a couple of weeks ago that black guns now dominate at the shooting ranges these days and I'd bet that purchases are way up there too. I've never had one, assuming that a pre-ban FN Belgian FAL para in 7.62 doesn't count (mine was green). But I very much agree that if the gov't starts "regulating" them one type at a time, we are all in trouble.

We had better watch out for this and keep our acts together, because the current administration does seem to be moving in that direction. If it gets another term, I expect that we will really see what its intentions are -- and we may not be able to do anything about it.

We can see this clearly from a close watch of the "Fast and Furious" scandal. As I wrote on one of my lawyers forums,

. . . the current Administration is already adopting rules -- without legislation -- to require added reporting of multiple gun sales to a single buyer by shops. The purported justification for this is precisely the purchases by Mexican drug gangs.

In other words, they are purposely setting up situations that can be used as excuses to restrict gun sales. They then call this "need based" control. However, it is a need that THEY created.

What "need" is there for controlling the purchase of two or more guns at one time? I have done that often.

For those of us who have been following the news closely about how the Fast and Furious scandal occurred, this seems to be a disingenuous and secretive policy measure. It is not hard to figure out what the goal is.

It defies credibility to think that, as claimed, this did not come at very least from Eric Holder and Lanny Breuer, head of the Criminal Division, and not solely from their underlings at the BATF. Frankly, it is my own opinion that the program would never have gone forward without at least tacit approval from a President who publicly claims to be avoiding more gun controls, but is covertly adopting them. I do not like this, since it exhibits lack of candor at minimum.

It also does a great disservice to our good friends south of the border. One thing I did yesterday was to sign my son up for an NRS Life Membership. The more support the NRA has, the better it can defend our interests.

I get a kick out of you guys that are so eager to boycott stuff. Let's boycott Uncle Ted and Zumbo you say? We wont buy their books, Cds etc? That's little beans.

What about that Cooper rifle that pops up at a good price? Talk about "throwing us under the bus"! That Cooper dude supported the worst pos ever to darken the door of the whitehouse yet how many of you guys promoting boycotts would pass up a good deal on a Cooper rifle?

Greg,

You should be, like, a writer, or somethin'!!!

Well said and TFF!

Pete

.....I think that I speak for a number of folks when I say....WTF are you talking about?????

....thanks, Pete...
any idea what the guy slamming Cooper is about???

Think i speak of Cooper taking party for Obama 4 years ago. Sure he does'nt know Cooper is not owned by the guy anymore..
Dom

...thanks----I obviously had the wrong Cooper in mind---thought he was talking about the Scout Rifle and Jeff Cooper.

Never said I wanted to see AR's or any other rifle banned. I shoot AK's myself. I just said I don't really see the need for them in hunting season. It seems to send the wrong message. Like waging war on the game animals or something. It's just a perception, granted, but perception is quite often reality. Someday I might like to find out how well a 7.62X39 works on deer, just not in an AK or SK.

If some of the pictures coming out of Montana and Idaho are correct, you might want a "AR-10" sized gun while deer or elk hunting. I'd hate to come across a pack of wolves while hunting with my bolt action.

Personal insults trump a valid discussion everytime , right ? I'm sure you are a man among men , and a genius to boot . When you resort to personal insults to someone you know nothing about , while hiding behind your keyboard , you sound like a punk ! Just another internet commando , and I won't validate you by any further communication ! Semper-Fi punk .

I think that people are attracted to what they are used to. I grew up with bolt action rifles and that's what I consider a sporting firearm. The AR platform has been around for 50 years as a US military rifle and that's what a lot of folks trained on and got used to. Much of the rifle competition scene is not dominated by AR platforms. And the younger crown is comfortable with them and will use them for hunting.

Since it is what so many have gotten used to, its only natural that they'd look to buy one.

Let "need" come into the equation and soon you'll be hunting w a sharp stick.

Imagine..."what do you "need" that slingshot for, you some kind of nutbag, might poke an eye out,use this here sharp stick instead, so you don't give anyone the wrong impression".

As long as the caliber is legal who gives a rip what platform it eminates from. My $.02, in this realm, perception is rarely reality.

I actually enjoy getting to look at something that doesn't make me want to put my eyes out.

I get really tired of the claim that an 03 is somehow like an AR. One was a military rifle(the 03 Springfield) and the AR never has been and likely never will be.

yah, you're right, I over reacted to your initial comment: "...I place Nugent in the same catagory as Hanoi Jane Fonda..." In reflection, I went overboard with the adversarial verbiage--sorry.

However, since between the two of us, I'm the only one using my real name and recently posted a picture of myself with Bradford O'Connor, your comment, "...hiding behind your keyboard..." and "...internet commando..." rings hollow. I won't dispute being a "punk" since I haven't used the word since the late 60's and don't really know its contemporary usage (although I think that "being punked" today has a meaning unrelated to your intended use)---who knows, I may in fact have transformed into whatever it means today.

So with "valid discussion" as the objective, what is it about Nugent not serving that upsets you more than Selleck or any # of other celebrities and/or conservative pundits/politicians that also "avoided the draft," i.e. the Rush Limbaugh's and Rick Santorum's of the world (both of whom I love btw)??? And why would you let those feelings cause you to not join the NRA, which is the most effective lobbying voice that we have??? No pejoratives on my part, just want and need to figure out your thought process.

BTW, I'd happily pay for your renewal into NRA membership for the first year--after that, if you feel that the Nuge is having a negative impact on the firearms and freedoms that you enjoy, simply let the membership lapse at the end of the year---best offer you'll get today!! :-) PM me if interested.

RMEF is a leftist organization anyway, so gun control should fit in nicely.

The public chooses what it wants to read and buys magazines, newspapers, books etc accordingly. If a writer (Zumbo) offends his customers, they aren't going to read his stuff or purchase it. Its on him to regain readership. Readers shouldn't have to change their beliefs at the behest of his friends. Companies go out of business all the time because they expect customers to pander to them. Zumbo is just experiencing the same thing.

FLfiremedic,

Some facts you possibly do not know need airing. Or, are you just being cute with your last post on natural selection.

Writers do not have a direct link to the public! They have publishers and distributors who decide whether or not to print and sell their magazine articles and books. Also, when the issue at hand, is a product purveyed by potential advertising companies, they go to jelly at the first hint of controversy.

So when any number of readers makes a major stink with rhetorical excesses over any ideas expressed by a writer, these companies tend to back off publishing their work even when the volume clearly exceeds the merit of the complaints. The chest thumping critics then, with a fresh scalp under their belts, go even more perpetually postal -- witness the guys here who describe RMEF, and other stalwarts of the hunting sports as "leftists anyway".

The intent? On its face it is little more than trying to bully eveyone else into thinking the same way they do. It works, but not forever. Hitler, Stalin and Mao are the models.

The public which probably could care less and might even welcome a good reasoned argument over a controversial idea never gets a say in the matter -- excpet maybe no on the inet. The drooling pilers-on who never have an independent thought anyway still try to shout down the public. But iits an old act and getting transparent.

1B

1B,

I was being neither cute nor uninformed. I see no need to debate this with you, as your intended or not, actually re-enforces my previous statements. I will add that I agree, Mr. Zumbo is free to write, speak, and have any opinions he wants...with that said I would hope that I am not forced to spend money on his magazines, and that I would not be forced to read his writing.

To steal a very old quote, "You're only as good as your last landing".

I'll close with this: This is a web board on the internet...don't let it get your blood pressure up.

The Nudge may have avoided the draft, but he did so legally, if he did, indeed. He got a student deferment, which a lot of people did.

At any rate, whatever he did way back then, he's more than made up for since in his public stance on gun rights and hunting rights. At least in my book.

To put him in the same category as Hanoi Jane is laughably absurd.

Zim Jumbo is a joke.

What Zumbo wrote was posted there: http://outdoorlife.blogs.com/zumbo/2007/02/assault_rifles_.html It has been removed but I found a copy of his blog entry; this is what he wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Zumbo#.22.27Terrorist.27_rifles.22_blog_entry

I just perused some of several and long Fire threads sparked by Zumbo's blog entry in February 2007; the volume of comments, the speed at which comments were posted and the intensity of the feelings expressed are striking.

....I repent oneoldsap and would like to have you back in the NRA---on my dime even. Since R. Lee Ermey is now on the NRA Board and is the spokesman for "Trigger the Vote" how can you NOT want to be involved????

PM me and I'll get the ball rolling on your membership---convention is coming up in St. Louis--Ermey should make it alittle more entertaining and at least counter any "anti-military" feeling that you feel the Nuge brings to the NRA.

I hate for this to be my first post here, but I joined specifically because of this thread, so I suppose this is the best place as any. Hello all.

I frankly don't understand the hate for the AR-15 as a hunting platform. Myself I have Stag Arms model 7L, chambered in 6.8mm. I have taken 4 whitetails with it in the last 2 years.

Classifying this as an assault rifle is hilarious at best. This is no more an assault rifle than a Remington 7400. Considering the ballistics of a 6.8 vs a 270 or 30-06, I'd rather take my chances being shot at with a 6.8. What exactly makes this a bad image for hunters? Because it was derived from a weapon used by the military?

Here's a list of other assault weapons that apparently have no place according to that logic:

Trapdoor Springfields
M1 Garand
British Enfield
Anything chambered in that assault cartridge that is the 3006.
M1 Carbine
M1A
Colt Single Action Army Revolvers are a terrible instrument of war.
Mauser Action Rifles. That terrible weapon killed millions.

Really? That's the reasoning? I can't believe I've read what I have here. So you don't like semi auto rifles or you don't like something with a synthetic stock?

What I have is a semi auto rifle that is left handed, that has better ballistic performance than a 30-30, and that I am able to configure how best works for me. It's accurate and has little recoil, which makes it a blast to shoot. I have 5 round magazines to hunt game animals with, and 25 round magazines to hunt predators with.

I fail to see the logic at all with what Mr Zumbo said, or what many here have said in this thread. Just because you don't like my rifle doesn't mean it has no use and that we should support those who would get rid of it. I personally have no use for side by side or over under shotguns. I don't see anything you can do with that, that cannot be done better with a semi or pump shotgun. I support people having them to the very end, if that's what you like, then by god have at it.

I'm glad Zumbo got hit by the bus he had previously been riding on. Let us not forget that firearms were developed to be an instrument of war. Every single one of us that uses a firearm or bow for that matter is using something that was initially developed for that reason.

If you want to give up your NRA memberships over a spokesman, or because someone uses a black rifle to hunt with, then quite frankly you were a NRA member to fit in at the gun shop BS sessions on Saturday morning, you weren't a member because you cared to support the Second Amendment.

I will keep my black rifles, as well as my bolt rifles, my single shots, handguns and everything else.

If it makes you guys feel better, I reach for my Rem 1100 when I hear things go bump in the night, not my Super Death Ray Black Rifle. I know that if I were to pick up my black rifle that Jesus, Chuck Norris, and Charleton Heston would instantly appear and make the bad people go away. I want to give the bad guy a fighting chance because that just isn't fair.

Good day.

It's hard to find a better wild pig rifle than an AR10 (308, of course).

Only a bed-wetter would disagree with you.

That's one heck of a good first post IMHO, BFL.

Sorry if I got on a bit of a rant!

I get really frustrated with people who believe because of their popularity or position, can tell the rest of us what we should or should not do. This is compounded by those who would jump on that very bandwagon. I mean no disrespect towards anyone here in the things that I say, these are just my personal feelings based on what I have seen.

Love them or hate them, black rifles are here to stay. I dealt with this whole mentality firsthand when I bought my 6.8. "What the heck do you need something like that for?" "What are you trying to do, blow them to pieces?" blah blah blah. After all the naysayers said their piece, then had their turn behind the trigger, it was a different story. Now instead of defending why I hunt with said rifle, I am helping them build their own.

I may be wrong in saying this, but I don't think there has ever been a situation that spoke poorly for shooters where it was the firearm causing the problem, it was the idiot behind the trigger. That happens with everything. Same thing with cars, or alcohol, or anything else. People do stupid things, inanimate objects they may have on their person at the time of said stupid things being done are not the perpetrators.

On a lighter note, I wonder if Zumbo is going to try one of these out? Lever guns aren't assault rifles right? Collapsible stock, check. Railed forearm, check. Flash suppressor, check.



Give me a break.