Or is it all just nostalgia?

thanks in advance for your replies...

It’s better today than it was when it was created in my opinion. It cycles like it’s greased, gets excellent speeds that nip on the Win Mag, seems very accurate as well. I’d easy cave for the right one. Right now I’m enjoying the P64 rechambered to 300 Wby but I would have been just as happy with the H&H.

Easy. You find an old classic beauty and it's a Super .30. No flies on the ballistics either. Originally, it was designed, so I've read, to match .30/06 ballistics safely in hot climates. Needs a long action or (my preference) a nice falling block.

They feed very well and handle heavy bullets exceptionally well.

No.

It has the same capacity as a WSM, but requires a magnum-length action. WSM brass and ammo are everywhere, but H&H brass is rare. The Win Mag is even more prolific in guns and components, and outdoes the old round's ballistics. No practical reasons to select the H&H today.

Because you want one?

If one came your way free of charge with plenty of loading supplies, loaded ammo, and you didn't own any other big game rifles but you did need one, sure. Other than the above scenario playing out, not really.

The Remington Classic is a fine gun. They chambered it one year. One sold in the classifieds not long ago for around 900.00

New in the box 300 H&H Classic on GB for 1600.00

No practical reason but almost guaranteed your buddies won’t have one. 😀 I’ve got two, a Remington 721 made in the month I was born and a used Rem 40-XB

No. Not when you can get a 300 WSM that gives better velocity out of a short action than the 300 H&H gives from a full length magnum action.



There's no denying that the 300 H&H is cool and there are some beautiful rifles chambered in it. I'd be happy to own one, but if I were designing a modern hunting rifle it wouldn't be in 300 H&H.

Practicality has no bearing on what rifles float my boat. I love my 300 H&H's !

Yep, practicality is often highly overrated. Which is why I've had four .300 H&H's.

John, Is practical ever mentioned in the definition of "Rifle Loony"? Just curious.

Well I've used my pre-64 from the Alaskan Peninsula to Sonora Mexico on everything from Brown Bear to Sonoran Whitetail. Also shot a 363 Bull Elk with it among other things. I used 200 grain Partitions in Alaska and 180 grain Partitions elsewhere. Worked just fine!

I'd love on in a pre 64, just struggle at the price they bring currently.
Then again, I want a 7x57 on a mauser action whereas a 7-08 is not particularly of interest!

The .300 H & H is cool.. Mine is a #1, but have had several 721's one model 70 and one rebarreled 700.. Think I might still have that barrel some where..

I don't own a 300 Mag of any flavor, just don't feel like I need one for whitetails. The only 300 Mag that could tempt me is the H&H. Just a cool old cartridge.

As to the question about any practical reason, probably not.

The idea that when a new shape of shell comes out that the old shell suddenly stops working right is just dumb.

The 300 H&H is at least as good today as it ever was and with modern powders it's actually better.

I have made so many 300s of various types that I have lost count of them. 300 H&Hs 300 Win mags, 308 Normas, 30-338s, 300 Weatherbys, a few 300 Ultras and so on. In the field I can't tell the difference in any of them as to how well they kill. In fact the fastest ones are the ones that seem to present the most problems in loads and bullet performance if you don't pay attention tot he details.

I have paired down my 30s to a 30-30, a few 308s, a few 30-06s and one 300, which is an H&H. I sold my last 300 Win mag a few years ago. It had a 26" barrel on it. I chronographed it along side my 300 H&H and there was no practical difference at all. In fact with my 200 grain loads my H&H is actually 12 FPS faster.

Both rifles shot under MOA.

The 300 Win Mag was on an M70 Winchester and my H&H (one of 3 I have owned) is on a Mauser which I just like the looks of better.
So I kept the 300H&H.

"Practical" is not something that entered my mind because there is nothing impractical about it any more than any other 300.

If total practicality was of any concern to me at all, I would probably only own a 308 Winchester and a 30-06 and forget every other 30 cal ever made.

But "practical" is not a concern to a gun buff.

Enjoyment is the 1st concern.

steve,

Yeah, there are impracticalities about owning a .300 H&H. If you don't handload, ammo is hard to find and not very varied, and even if you do handload brass can be hard to find.

Other than that, the .300 H&H works fine, but to turn your logic in the opposite direction, it doesn't do anything the other .300's don't.

Bingo! Since when does a rifle loony need a practical reason?

Nostalgia only. But that's not a bad thing.

I agree and the pros & cons have been well discussed.

If I had a 300 H H, it would HAVE to be in a Nostalgic Rifle. I would not want to build a custom nor to have it in any NEW production rifle.

Nostalgia = Nostalgia


Jerry

I do not see the practicality.
But, the 300 H&H is one cool cartridge !!
I am not a big fan of 300's, but of course have a couple.

The 300 H&H is one that I could learn to be fond of.
A 300 H&H rifle matched to a 375 H&H rifle is an interesting idea to me.

Yes... just another brass cylinder, and a poor one at that.

Live in the time you live, where you are now. Build memories from this place, not upon the shoulders of another man long gone.

Well, the .300 H&H was a product of it's times. It was originally designed to reproduce 1920's .30-06 velocities with Cordite, which was VERY heat-sensitive, the reason the case was a lot larger than the .30-06's, and considerably tapered--which aided extraction if the case got a little sticky. Which is also the reason for the shallow shoulder angle, which was the reason for the belted case: The shoulder angle of 8.5 degrees wasn't even as much as the .375 H&H's 15 degrees, so was worthless for headspacing.

Which is why the .300 H&H is prone to case stretching and hence short case life. How long the cases last depends on how closely the belt matches the the chamber, which is a crapshoot with today's brass in any rifle. I know this (again) because I've owned and handloaded for several .300 H&H rifles, including a pre-'64 Model 70, a Ruger No. 1 and a custom-barreled Model 70 Classic.

.300 H&H brass is available, though not nearly as often as .300 WSM, .300 Winchester and .300 Weatherby, and when it is available costs more. Because of the case shape it doesn't last as long.

As far as the .300 H&H "feeding" better, I've owned several .300 WSM, .300 Winchester and .300 Weatherby rifles and they all have fed just fine--except for the very first .300 WSM, a first-year M70 Classic in .300 WSM made before the bugs got worked out.

The .300 H&H has just about exactly the same powder room as the .300 WSM, and at the same pressures is capable of the same velocities. This was proven years ago in project I suggested to Charlie Sisk, who first chambered a barrel in .300 H&H and tried several loads, with pressure-testing. Then he rechambered it to .300 WSM, keeping the throat in as close to the same place as possible. The same powder charges and bullets resulted in basically the same velocities and pressures.

The .300 H&H is a case designed for powder problems that no longer exist, so involves problems (and expenses) that are non-existent for newer .300 magnums. If somebody has a .300 H&H and plenty of brass, obviously it produces ballistics resembling most other .300 magnums, so will work well.

I've dealt with a bunch of rifles that have even more practical problems, and will again. The official motto of our little company, riflesandrecipes.com, is "Need has nothing to do with it." But for me to deal with another .300 H&H with require running across some REALLY nifty old rifle. I'll then go ahead with knowledge of the H&H's "practical" problems.

I've had very good case life with .300 H&H brass. Like most other rifle cartridges, especially belted ones, I size just enough so that a little effort is required to close the bolt. After five or six firings, a full-length sizing may be required. I would guess that full-length sizing of H&H brass everytime would result in case separation after two or three loadings.

It's discussions like this one that might make a guy realize that what appeals to him may or may not be rationally justifiable. Sometimes I like stuff---or NOT---just because. I'll bet I ain't the only one.

Practical? absolutely not but as a rifle "loon" and historical one as well. I've been fortunate the pre-war 70 I have shoots just about everything to POI with varying bullet weights, especially the 180 and 200 gr Partitions. Using the old Nosler reloading manual, I was never able to break 2900 fps with the 180s, but after I switched to RL-22, it is an honest 3000 fps rifle. I have a lifetime supply of WW brass, but this rifle doesn't really care if I shoot RP, Nosler or Hornady brass and I've even been known to use the old 220gr RN Horndays as well (and talk about a COOL looking round that is simply devastating on hogs). It's like a beautiful woman with expensive tastes, but hell, life's just too short to shoot "practical", if I wanted that, I'd have an ugly wife and shoot a 308.

lotech,

I've used that technique not only in my own .300 H&H's but a couple loaned for testing. It CAN work, but depends very much on the dimensions of the belt of the cases, and the chamber.

It's lot like "gently" resizing any of the older tapered cases that headspace on a rim or belt, instead of a substantial shoulder. It depends a lot on the fit between the rim/belt of the particular brass and the particular chamber. In a higher-pressure round like the .300 H&H this is more critical than in a low-pressure case like the .22 Hornet, but the results still vary.

Would the H&H be a prime candidate for sizing with a collet die?

I have a Zastava 300HH length action out in the shop. On a new barrel, the 300HH would not be even thought about. 300 Weatherby most likely, since I have the Die set.

That's a good enough reason for me. I've never bothered to rationalise a cartridge choice. I buy the rifle in the cartridge I want purely for interest, nostalgia or whatever you call it. All three of my .257 Roberts's are built on standard length actions (.30-06 length). Rationally, it would make more sense to turn them into .25-06s to use the wasted magazine space. But the .25-06 just doesn't grab me as the .257 Bob does. So I don't worry about it. I enjoy hunting deer with a .257 Roberts and for me, that's what it's all about.

If you want a .300H&H go get one and enjoy it.

Well now, I do have to concede that point about factory ammo. To be honest, I didn't even think of that because in center fire rifle ammo, I bet I have not bought 100 rounds of factory ammo in the last 50 years combined. I just aotomatically assume I am going to provide my own ammo.
So you point is accepted and taken.

Brass..............only a problem if you want the head stamp to read "300 H&H"

I just run a 375 H&H through the die and bingo...got it.
No problem at all.

When I was in high school, my dad approached me one day with the cutest little round I'd ever seen. It was a tiny case, with a 17 caliber bullet. He told me it was a 17 K-Hornet, and then went on to excitedly describe the particulars of the case and the gun he'd gotten. He was so excited about that little cartridge. Looking back now, I can see that he sold me that day on cases where the taper had been taken out for both capacity and case life. It was the case shape though, that stuck with me. I suppose that's partially why I've never found the 300 H&H appealing. I have no desire for one, and never did. I'd build a Win Mag long-throated for 3.6" COL today on a 700 if I was after that kind of performance in a 30. To each his own.

Now there's a motto to hang your Rifle Loony hat on.

There is a reason I load for over 40 different cartridges and practicality isn't it. In fact I have more die sets I need to get rifles for.

All .30 caliber components are readily available. Hornady makes cases and have been in constant supply for years. With the internet, finding cases is not a problem.
Loaded factory ammo is limited in comparison to other main stream calibers but not a problem to a rifle loony and hand loader.

It has a better length neck for loading the heavier bullets without losing powder capacity as in the .300 WM.
You can load it pretty stout or mild to suit your fancy. It will NATURALLY feed and extract slicker than most. No custom gunsmithing required to make it digest cartridges like others.
It is capable of extreme accuracy. In the right hands, it has unlimited potential in the field. It has been around for a few years and not withered away like some. With today's bullets/components it is deadlier than ever and keeps pace with the newer.

To me, it is a 63 split window Corvette with a 427 CI. No need to justify it if you can afford it. Sexy can be expensive.

MLF,

You suffer under a common misconception, that somehow a longer neck prevents a seated bullet from taking up powder room. This is because you (and many shooters) believe all the powder room in a bottlenecked case is below the neck.

It isn't. There's also powder capacity IN the neck. The rule of thumb is that seating bullets about one caliber deep is required to hold bullets firmly. This means that in .30 caliber cartridges, seating bullets more than .30 deep is "losing powder capacity," to the same extent as seating them into the body of the case below the neck. A bullet's shank takes up the same amount of room, wherever it ends up.

But the .300 Winchester Magnum, as Bob Hagel pointed out in the 1970's, also has plenty of room for powder AROUND the bullet's base. The .300 H&H's shallow shoulder prevents this, which is exactly why a .300 Winchester Magnum actually has more powder capacity with a 200-grain bullet seated than the .300 H&H. I know this from actually measuring the powder capacity of both rounds with a 200-grain Nosler Partition seated to the standard industry overall length--not guessing it due to a misconception fostered by many old-time gun writers.
And one of the rules of internal ballistics is that more powder space allows more velocity when cartridges are loaded to the same pressure. It's the same principle involved in internal-combustion automobile engines: There is no replacement for displacement.

In fact, with the same bullet seated to standard industry OAL, the .300 WSM has just about exactly the same powder capacity as the .300 H&H. I also know this from actually owning and measuring the capacity of both rounds, which is why they're both capable of the same velocities, when loaded to the same pressure in the same barrel length. I mentioned an pressure/velocity experiment proving this earlier, which apparently you missed--but it does result in another interesting fact that actually can help .300 H&H handloaders. There isn't much new pressure-tested loading data for the H&H these days, especially with newer powders, because the round isn't very popular anymore. But you can use .300 WSM data for newer powders when loading the .300 H&H. I know this, again, because of actually doing it, not guessing.

I might also mention that while some early .300 WSM's had feeding problems, but they disappeared shortly after the cartridge was introduced in 2001. I've owned several .300 WSM's in the past dozen years, from various manufacturers, and all fed very slickly without any "custom" work.

Yes, Hornady has made .300 brass for several years now, and it's good stuff. But it isn't nearly as available as brass for the .300 WSM or .300 Winchester, and when it is costs more. I looked at the four websites where I buy most of my handloading stuff, and only one had Hornady .300 H&H brass in stock, for $56 per 50 cases. Brass for the other two could be be easily found for $32 to $40 per 50 on all four sites.

Now obviously that cost wouldn't matter to a guy like you, who has a '63 Corvette, but it would to many other people. And this thread is about practical reasons to own a .300 H&H.

I'm glad so many people find owning one a nifty rifle-loony experience, partly because I've been among those, and may well be again in the future. But the practical reality is the .300 H&H is NOT a superior case design, because it appeared when powders were very different than they are today, and there's no practical reason to choose one over a .300 WSM or .300 Winchester Magnum.

That 300 H&H Classic is back in the classified section for 900.00 with scope

Absolutely impractical. But I love it for reasons beyond practicality. It’s a Ruger #1, has shot like a target rifle right out of the box. I’ve thought of punching it out to 300 Weatherby, but then I get cold shivers and shakes.

And the biggest reason to have it: It’s lucky!

Yeah, my No. 1 .300 H&H shot very well too. But like many rifles over the decades, somebody eventually wanted it more than I did!

Practical?? Nah. Want?? For me absolutely! So much of a want I searched & found a New Haven 1990's Win M70 Safari Express in 375H&H as a doner. So I could have a matching pair of Safari Expresses one chambered in 375H&H and one chambered in 300H&H. Both rifles are setup exactly the same, scope, mounts, Teflon coated metal, down to the same rifle sling.
Nostalgia? Yeah! Is the 300H&H as good or better than any other 30 cal magnums? Probably not. Is it more expensive to feed? Maybe. All in all I don't care about that stuff. I've always read everything I could geta my hands on about hunting Africa, which is where my love affair started for Holland & Holland cartridges.
For me they work, period. I can load both cartridges with whatever is laying on my reloading room floor, seat a good bullet on top of it, and both cartridges shoot well. Felt recoil, I think, is less than the younger cartridges using the same bullet weights. Might just be my perception?
I like'm both so well neither will be sold...but passed on to my son.
Of course I'm by no means trying to convince anybody that they need to own a 300H&H. But if you do get one or have one now, I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine.

There's a friend of mine who posts over on AR, that has THE most beautiful pair of matched custom rifles by Duane Wiebe in 300 & 375 H&H. Hunted africa with them as well.

Hmmm someone else had the same idea?!?

there is the cool factor....

for some reason, I think the cooooolest looking round I've ever seen, is a
300 H & H with a 220 grain Round Nose on it...

That, LLBean hunting boots, plaid wool coat and hunting cap...

and its 1954 all over again...

Because it is cool as [bleep]! Found a 300 H&H empty case when I was Antelope hunting at 14 and just thought it looked cool. Makes me want to go shoot my 721. It may not be the perfect choice. But it is never a bad one.

A more apt description of the other side of the pillow would be hard to find...

If you want one, get one!!

You could say that about any chambering. I like It, usually feeds smoothly , better than the moderns and puts up good numbers.

all this talk about the 6.5 Creedmoor just makes me want a 300 H&H; seems to be a logical Contrarian choice.

Practicality has beans to do with it. Of course it’s performance won’t equal my .300 Weatherby but it is way cooler if it’s in a classic rifle!

Anyone who would not love to own a .300 Holland in a classic rifle should turn in their Rifle Looney Card and maybe their Man Card while they’re at it!

Happy Trails

Interesting.

Was the 427 available in 63?

Nope. It didn't exist yet.

According to Wikipedia the 1963 engine was a 327. 109 units were built for racing with at least one with an experimental 427 driven at Riverside by Junior Johnson. The 1963 Impala could be had with a factory 427, so it did exist. But maybe not in a production Vette. Happy Trails

I think that was a W engine, not the MkIV.

That's how I recall it, I was thinking only in the Impala though. The 427 must of had some issues, since Chevy pulled back production and then released the 396 in mid-65 (not the 427 until later). I had a high performance 396 in a 65 1/2 Super Sport Impala. My brother had a high performance 396 in a 66 chevelle. The main issue with my SS396 was the Impala's aerodynamics. It started "floating" at a little over 140 mph. I had a hard time trying to keep it on a 2 lane road when attempting top end.

They were not perfect mechanically. I had to change points on it about every 5,000 miles. Plugs more often than that. The springs on mine should have beeen replaced as it "settled".

I really liked that car.

And the 396 didn't hold up very well in racing!

Only practical if you are gifted one or find one at a price you simply can't pass up.

Can't see any reason to buy or have one built as there are better practical choices on the market.

You kidding me? Heck ya, get one in a old Mod. 70 Super Grade and then go buy another in Three Seven Five H&H and look in the mirror at a happy man!

Love my Sako FN actioned 300 H&H mag. Shoots as well as any in my collection. Factory ammo is available and cost a bit, have plenty of brass and components so don't care.

I bought one 8 months ago to convert to 7mmSTW, but I have since found some better candidates.

I bought 300 H&H dies and brass... maybe I will shoot it. A friend of mine told me about a trip to Africa and all the things he shot with a 300 H&H.

Jorge - you can’t know how much I love that !!

Jerry

A fellow I knew told me that when you pick a wife think of a station wagon. None of your friends will want to drive it. It is the most practical car to own.
If you pick a sports car, you have no idea how many miles are on it and everyone wants to take it for a test drive. And it isn’t very practical.
I think he was preparing me for when I met his wife.

Jerry

I've got a semi-custom Rem 700 in .300 H&H that is quickly becoming one of my favorite rifles. I've only killed one elk and a caribou with it, but I really like it so far. It's a long round, even for a magnum so using long, high B/C bullets isn't practical at all if you want rounds in the magazine. It isn't powder efficient for the speeds it gets either.

It is, however, nostalgic. If that kind of thing is important to you than by all means go for it. It is no better or worse than any flavor of 7 or 300 mags from a practical standpoint.

Please elaborate a bit.

Mathman, I went and took a look at my reloading data, cause you made me question myself.

With Reloader 22, my H&H is using 70 grains for 2985 FPS while a friend's .30-06 I was playing with was getting 2750 FPS with 62 grains. That's only 235 extra FPS for 8 grains (or 12%) more powder. I guess it is a bit subjective as to whether or not that extra FPS is worth the extra cost in powder and possibly recoil, blast, action length, etc.

With IMR 4831, my .300 H&H uses 73 grains to reach right at 3000 FPS, where my .300 Win is (or was, since I gave the rifle to my nephew) using 74 grains to reach right around the same speed, so these two are pretty close, though both use a lot more powder than -06 or 308 sized rounds. All three of these rifles were shooting the same 180 grain bullet when I wrote all this down.

These are small sample sizes, so if you have contrasting notes, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
My H&H does have 2 more inches of barrel than the other two rifles though. I am not sure how much of a difference that makes.

My dad, the most frugal, utilitarian man on the planet once told me you didn't have to need a gun to buy one, you just had to want it. If you wanted to consider practicality or utility, fine, do so. But, those two variables didn't really matter...the only things that mattered were "want" and having enough money to buy the gun (of course).

my bother has a Winchester model 70 super grade made in 1948 in 300 H&H, nothing special but way cool! we were at are favorite gun store checking velocity on the factory boxes of factory loaded ammo and with a 180gr bullet, between the 300 win mag and the300 Winchester super silly mag and the 300 H&H is only 20 feet per second.

I think I would own a 300 H&H just because of the cool factor!

Me too.... Even though I like my 300 WSM it just doesn't have that throwback, retro, coolness factor that the .300 H & H does.

Absolutely not.....in fact, there's little to no reason to own any .30 cal larger than the .30-06....the magnums (all of them) are simply overkill designed to collect hunters dollars.

I think I’d prefer a 30 Super, myself.

I have a 700 magnum action and a 24" SS 30-06 bbl that is begging to become a 300H&H "parts gun" in an old Brown Precision stock.

It won't be pretty.

I’m thinking about getting one. See what you done!

Love my super 30's .Still have 2 sold my Ruger # 1 on this site.

I appreciate your answer. I asked you to elaborate because I wasn't sure if your comment was about the efficiency of 300 mags vs smaller rounds (which you have made clear here) or if it was the H&H vs other 300 mags. I used to gig my 257 Weatherby shooting friend about how my 250 Savage got better than 80% of the velocity with less than half the powder.

The only really practical reason to own a .300 H&H is because there just plain isn't much in this world with that kind of cool factor...


And it IS efficient. It was my favorite cartridge for elk..

When I was doing a LOT of hunting the main battery was a 7x57, a .300H&H, and a .375 H&H...can you tell I like the classics?

No problem.

Glad we're on the same page.

The larger the case the less efficient. But then there’s a minimum too. Who wants to hunt caribou with a 300 blackout?

It seems that when one wants to promote a smaller case, the word efficient is brought up.

Yes a 30-06 is more efficient than a 300 Mag, a 308 is more efficient than a 30-06, a 308 Marlin is more efficient than a 308 Win, and a 300 Savage is more efficient than any above.

If it were just for efficiency sake, there would be no more Weatherby’s or belted magnums and 3,000 fps would not be likely.

But others put more priority on velocity.

Where’s your happy medium? If you’re hunting pronghorn, efficiency may not be your highest priority. But if you’re hunting from a stand and will be shooting at 50 yards then an ultra magnum may not be your first choice.

There ya go Bugg. IMO there are too many who miss that point.
Efficiency has its place AFAIC. But efficiency is not the END ALL.

As a personal example,
I like/use the 7 RM and have no complaints BUT

IMO the 7 RUM is over the top. I’m not just referencing recoil, I also shoot/hunt the 8 RM.

Jerry

Sometimes you just have to quit worrying about efficiency, feet per second, case life, and what other folks say on the internet- and just get out and shoot.

Well "Practical" is a word that may be perceived differently by different people.
I earn my living (about 985% anyway) making flintlocks. Are they "practical"?
Yes, if the purpose is to enjoy one more then you might enjoy (as an example) an AK47 or an AR15. Having be as far behind in my work load as 8 years, apparently there are many dozens of men and women that agree.

For customers who disagree within the State of Wyoming, I also have a lot of experience making ARs and AKs too.
Some still prefer a classic Bolt action, like a 98 Mauser, a Lee "Speed" or a Mannlicher–Schönauer. I just made a classic-looking left handed bolt action for a man in 9.3X62 by re-shaping a Ruger M77 Mk2 and re-barrelling it to that caliber with a barrel I contoured to the classic 1910 shape.
Is that as practical as an FN-FAL?

Many will say yeas. Many others will say no.

gnoahhh above may be closest to the real issue here.

Who cares if it's not practical in someone else's eyes.

I have owned and used several 300s in my life. I sold them all except my 300H&H. Why? Because I like it the best. Ballistics are in the same league as most others 300s and I can't tell ANY difference in how well it kills elk than any other 300 at any range.

I just like the classic lines best.
It makes me enjoy the gun more then the other eight 300s I have owned, so to me it's the most practical of them all.

I never said efficiency is the end all. That said, I remain convinced that a lot of folks are over gunned and over scoped.

Truer words were never spoken. I can't tell you how many nimrods I see in the deer woods armed with magnums of some sort with scopes bolted on that would do a Marine sniper in Afghanistan proud. Do they entertain Walter Mitty-like dreams of mountain-to-mountain shots at sheep, or wish they were staring at a riled up brown bear? I don't get it.

Nature abhors a vacuum!

Always worked for me

I remain convinced that a lot of folks are under-skilled, ignorant, and inexperienced. I am also convinced that much of what most folks "know" is contradicted by facts.

I have had several 300 H&Hs. I think it is a really easy to get to shoot round, it feeds smoother than any of my other rifles- even ones of the same make and I just ordered brass for it- Midway or Graffs had Norma brass at about a buck a pop.

I am taking it to Africa in a couple of weeks and will probably hunt with factory 180 grain Fail safe ammo. It also really likes 150 Partition Golds so that is what I will load.

I had Redding make me a custom die. My brass last plenty long now with almost no trimming.

Yes, it requires a long action but it is a hunting rifle, not a target rifle where I am trying to pry the utmost accuracy out of it. When I bought the current one, it was to be a donor for a 375. I made the mistake of shooting it first.

My group of 4 that is headed across the pond next month are taking three 300 H&Hs. My second gun is a 458 Lott. Both are nostalgic African cartridges.

I've got absolutely nothing of value to add to this thread, but here's my .300 H&H. I really like it so far.
Both of these critters could have easily been taken with a .308 or even a .243, but that's not the point. I just really like this rifle.

szihn said, “Who cares if it’s not practical in someone else’s eyes?”

I agree and it’s great that we have choices and that we are not all alike.
It would not only be boring, but consider the difficulty in finding ammo or
components IF we only had 2 or 3 rifles and cartridges to choose ! !

I’ve had a Rem 700 8mm RM for quite a few years. I’ve hunted it and killed WT
with it..... practical ? NO. Then why, because I wanted to !

ATST what animal is too tough for a 200 gr Nosler Partition at 3100 FPS ?
I’m prepared for anything that I might hunt.

I’ve also wanted to ‘play’ with a 416 RM for a long time. I’m not buying one but
if I did, what diff is it to anyone else?

There are a few smaller cartridges that I have NO interest in owning or shooting.
Some of those are very popular among us loony’s... I don’t criticize those who adore those rounds.

Variety is good for US.

Jerry

Tinman...I thought I was the only one to take a 300 H&H to Alaska caribou hunting.....

And that sums it up pretty well. And is the reason most of us have neat rifles in odd chamberings

My ugly wife/rifle comments still stand, but I forgot to add this: My pre-war 70 shoots 180gr Partitions, TTSXs and 200gr Partitions to the SAME POI out to 200 yards. Pretty darned practical in my view.

I'm doing some serious downsizing right now. When I'm done will be down to a 257Roberts, 275Rigby, 280Remington and a 300HH for scoped big game rifles, all of which have been eclipsed by "better" more modern chamberings.

Hey Super Cub, are you just now getting ready to use some of those 300 H&H cases that went your way some time ago?

I don't have an H&H but do have a 300 WSM which is ballistically the same thing. It seems to be a nicely balanced cartridge and was easy to get shooting well.

All the best from Ontario.

Jim

I don't need one, don't have one, but would like to have one.

The Holland Super 30 is just cool! If we were all practical we'd dump and our other rifles including the magical 6.5 Creeds and just keep a 30 06 and a 22 Long Rifle. Maybe 1 12 gauge pump for those pesky birds.

I killed my first Sitka blacktail on Kodiak island with a 300 H&H shooting 150 Partition golds.

Hey Jim ..... It's been a while but am finally getting there with this project. Too many sidetracks along the way.

......... Paul

I had Duane Wiebe build me a .300 H&H because I had 6 boxes of factory ammo. I'm not a math guy but I'm pretty sure that was practical.

great reason to build a beautiful rifle! grin

know that's a cool rifle and cool cartridge!

I think we have built rifles with less reason than this! Woodhits, a beautiful rifle by a great craftsman.

Woodhits, love the grain on that stock. What a gem you have there.

Ruger #1's in .300 H&H are fairly rare. Which of course is a reason to buy one, if I ever see one

Woodhits,

That's a beautiful rifle. Congratulations!

But then, any rifle Duane builds is beautiful!

That is a really nice rifle

Thanks for the kind words guys. I'll admit that I haven't taken it hunting yet but maybe we can get that done this Fall.

After seeing this, I just don't know how some of you live with those plastic and stainless rifles, especially in dull calibers....

Practical or not, this thread inspired me to drag a pre-64 M70 and a Ruger No. 1 out of the safe and do some 300 H & H loading last night. H4831 has been my go-to, but RE 26 is about to get a run...

Hell Yes, if none other than to honor the cool old hunters and target shoot winners from the past that laid the conservation and hunting groundwork for EVERY damn one of us., my pre-64 300 fires 220 gr Partitions at an easy 2750 fps into ragged holes when it's wearing it's old Bausch&Lomb 2.5-10, not bad with the Lyman receiver peep too.

Were it legal to do so, I'd shot any game animal up to Ele and Rino with that combo.

I think everyone needs a 300 to go with their 375. This would be my pick for a classic combo for Africa. Might add the 400 or 45 version but they don't have the charisma of the originals.

Now I will dream about a pair of them by Duane until I win the Powerball.

If I really wanted one, it would be practical to me.

From a pure practical standpoint, the 300WM is a far better choice ....

1. Far more rifles to choose from.
2. Far more factory ammo.
3. Brass is a lot less expensive than the cost for 300H&H.
4. Better selection of dies.
5. More gunsmiths can be found with a 300WM reamer.
6. The more modern case shape would be less prone to stretching than the H&H.
7. More velocity.


BUT .... The 300WM offers way less cool.

I have a 300 Win Mag and a 300 Weatherby. They aren’t as interesting as the H&H!

No, if that really matters.

I would agree with that. Some of my favourite rifles are 257Roberts, 280Remington and 275Rigby. All have been eclipses by better yet far less interesting chamberings.

i succumbed to the allure... a 300 H&H X-Bolt Medallion is enroute to my location...

I check online to look at those. Couldn't find them. Prob be a nice rifle.

apparently a Shot Show special from a couple years back... enroute from a shop in Wisconsin

I've been looking for nickel brass for mine to load some CT ballistic silver tips because they look so darn cool.

The best answer to that question:

A Democrat would not want you to have it.

OK... I shoot both the .300 Win and the H&H. Please explain why the Winchester cartridge is less interesting than the H&H. If i could have only one it would be the Winchester.

For some, the more obscure, classic hard to find chamberings are cool. That's not practical or even rational, but it is what it is. I always wanted to shoot a Yukon moose with a 300H&H.

The Winchester offering is a better choice for a long list of reasons as is the WSM.

It's ballistically a .300 WSM in a long, tapered case that feeds like greased snot through actions like the 700 that are, at very best, rough and draggy with the WSM.

If you value smooth feeding over short action length, then damned right there's a practical reason to choose the .300 H&H.

Tom

this X-Bolt Medallion is a beautiful rifle. I have some Hornady factory ammo on order with LGS with which to christen the bore. won't even scope it until i adjust the iron sights

There are no practical reasons other then hunting Big Bears for owning more then a 308 or 30-06.

Skip a bit, brother; practical is right out.

As a young lad in the early 70's leafing through my dad's reloading manuals and reading the cartridge descriptions, I was intrigued by this old timer 300. Thus was the beginning of my attachment to that cartridge. Why? It sounded British (Holland and Holland) and looked cool I suppose - and wasn't plain vanilla. Result: a 1954 era Remington 721. A plain vanilla rifle except for "300 H&H" on the barrel - which is priceless. It's nothing but a white tail rifle for me, but I love it - just because I can!


I guess that also explains my #2 acquisition from the same manual - a 338-06.

You need no other reason than you want it. And that is why I have a 416 Rigby.

Well I took a 375 H&H to Africa the first time...worked so well I bought a 300 H&H for the next time....if that ever happens
that is.....and if it doesn't? oh well.....they can sit in the safe and I'll look at them every once and awhile and dream.

Dang you ! Now I’ve gotta buy a 416 R M.

Jerry

Like any other rifle/cartridge that can't be found at Wal-Mart, it serves as an excellent jackwagon detector. It works like this: when talking with someone about rifles, mention you own a 300 H&H. If they say "Oh cool! How do you like it?", They're probably an ok sort. The ones that ask why you'd bother to own something so obsolete are jackwagons. Say "Good day." and leave.

"Jackwagons" are people as well.

ordered 30mm Talley lightweight two piece low mount rings for the X-Bolt Medallion 300 H&H... but can't decide on a scope... or a reticle. I want to stay at or below 42mm objective... Any recommendations?

thanks in advance...

Last week, I sent out all the pcs for a Super 30 parts gun. Well used M700 BDL magnum action with a SS 24" 30-06 bbl and an old Brown Precision stock. This will be the 4th rifle I've used that stock for and has become a favourite handle. Scope will probably be an old VariX-III 2.5-8 bought cheeep here on the Fire in Weaver mounts. Dies came locally for 20 bucks.

Pretty sure the results will be a bit ugly but it should be a good "working" rifle.

I've read through this entire thread, but I never saw the correct answer to the question. Every day on this board, people want answers about the most efficient cartridge. The best barrel makers. The strongest action. The preferred cartridge for deer, antelope, or lions.

I want you to read this.

Art: the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.

Some posters were so close to nailing it. The reason for owning a 300 H&H, a 45-70, a Rigby rifle, etc. is because of its beauty. I like the lines of certain cartridges and rifles. They appeal to my eye. The most velocity doesn't do it for me. Nor does the latest marketing release. It's got to appeal to my eye. I have to get a good feeling from it. That's why I prefer certain cartridges and rifles.

Art is a personal thing. What moves you may leave others cold. But it's still art. Something to be appreciated for its beauty or emotional power. Does it move you?

Without art, there's little purpose to life.

Good point - to add to it, just because something that moves you doesn't move someone else, that doesn't make them wrong or a bad person - seems like something for the 'fire to keep in mind.

Absolutely no practical reason to acquire a 300 H&H today. Lots of cartridges will push a .308-180 out of a 24” barrel at 2950+. The bullet and the target don’t know what pushed the bullet down range.

There isn’t a “cool factor” except in the noggin of the owner.

Reminds me of driving a 50 mile route to get to a place 1 mile down the nearest road.

That's a fine post, Steve, and I utterly agree with your point. I remember being a child of 5 years old looking through my father's reloading manuals. Certain cartridges just seemed "cool". I couldn't say way then. I still can't describe the "cool" in exact terms.

I suppose it's like porn, in that it is difficult to define, but we know it when we see it.

This is the most beautiful rifle I've seen in an age. Thanks for sharing this with us!

Thanks. And you're right, that is a beautiful rifle!

SR, I bought the blue/walnut/iron sights X-Bolt Medallion in 300 H&H because it is art to me; the rifle and the cartridge. Woodhit's rifle is in a class all by itself!

That is a beautiful rifle, like a drop dead woman!

I gotta agree with Steve regarding art. For me some cartridges are right or feel that way. Surely better cartridges are available at least to other’s eye’s. That’s ok with me. Favorite writers had an influence too. Jim Carmichael comes to mind - “280 Remington”. Al Miller, Taylor, and many more. Then there’s writers covering hunting the big bears, all kind of African game, or even elk (not many elk years ago) and even the writers of fiction. “Death in the Tall Grass” comes to mind. Maybe their writings captured the “romantic” factor. Ever read “Hell I was there”? - didn’t that change your outlook?

Dad and his dad had gun magazines back to about 1900. Outdoor Life, American Rifleman and The Arms of Man (?)

My choices/favorites tend to be older cartridges that I read about in my youth.

Rigby and H&H are two that come to mind.

Why the 300 Super and with bronze point or silver tip ammo? Wouldn’t a 300 WSM with a mono bullet be better, perhaps for someone - likely many even.

But that Super also is an H&H. You can’t get better than that in these old eyes.

Woodhits — Gorgeous Rifle ! !

**nothing I print is meant to be critical or negative.




I agree about cool being in the mind.....
Sorta like ‘beauty in the eye...’

To me, 284 Win is cool in case shape, moreso than the new kid on the block.

Of all the 30 cal mags, the 300 W M is MY cool. ATST I appreciate the heritage of the H H and the long slender case is handsome.

Someone said, “you pays your money and you takes your pick”.

Jerry

they are super cool and old school!!!!!!

No practical reason, but plenty or emotional and aesthetic reasons.

I built one because a 30-06 is boring, a 300 win mag utilitarian, and a weatherby too blingy.

Mine worked fantastic on my first trip to Africa and the big brother 375 worked perfectly on my second trip.

Asthetics is a practical consideration. What is the world without art? Peace of mind and serenity are practical aspects of life. This is achieved, in part, by having nice things around us.

This beater Rem 300 H&H has the practical advantage of packing far more memories than any of the newer 300 magnums.



Not much to look at, the barrel has been bobbed to 22 1/2", and the front sight reinstalled, but the bore is still bright with sharp rifling. Not sure why it was shortened, but it still starts 180 gr Partitions off at close to 3000 fps.

The most practical reason to use it is you don't have to worry about scratching it up.

Ted

Yes, So your friends and family don't steal your ammo!!

Mike

I would be a cool rifle to bring out at the deer lease. None of the guys on my lease has one.

Have heard more than a few stories involving short stroking a magnum length action. A perfect pair of rifles to hunt the world would be a 300H&H with a 375 H&H or 458Lott, both on the same model magnum actions. Muscle memory would be the same for both under stress.

Goodness gracious!

Everyone needs a 300 H&H

All good and true, but the practical aspects keep rising to the top.
WSM and Win Mag ammo choices and availability world wide

If I had a 300 H&H M70, I’d be very tempted to either rebarrel, or recharmber to 300 PRC

Twist, Leade and throat geometry would tip the decision towards a Match tube
Rechambering would indicate a 300 WBee

But would I really have a better hunting rifle ? Maybe not.

At the end of the day that long magazine would nicely accommodate a.375 WBee

They are all HandLoading propositions.

Funny. I had a dream last night that a relative brought over some old ammo, and when I looked at the headstamp it was 300 H&H. Then the first thread that pops up when I log on is this one. I guess I need to get one.

The old 300 H&H will still be killing game in the future. The latest flash in the pan cartridge will be forgotten. But the old 300 will always work. Hasbeen

Yes, it will wok, and work well. After all it is a .30’06 +

What concerns me, in the practical sense, is the investment value of that Pre ‘64, or 721 etc.

Versus my lust for a 300 Norma gong blaster 😉

What sort of practical value is there in an original 300 H&H takeoff barrel ?

I had a similar nightmare :

My uncle came over with a can of corroded 270 ammo, that he had come across in his wine cellar.
And a Savage 270 Win in similar condition.

Now if it was 280, or 260 I could understand ...

Just post it for sale. Ought to last about thirty seconds.

Ted

Is that even legal ? 22.5” minus 3-7/8” = about 17-3/4 “ of practical bore length ,
considering the scratches in the rifling at the muzzle from cleaning too exuberantly from the front end.

🥴

I was hoping to drag it out a bit longer, and subsidize the rest of the build ,
Somewhat, to offset my grief in the loss of a classic barrel.

The Art, as Steve puts it so well, is in the sum of the parts. Not the dispassionate disassembly.

😢

Whoever had it before I got it took very good care of the bore; bright with sharp rifling all the way, and still able to put a mag full into five inches at 300 meters, that's 328 yards for our friends down South, on our silhouette range.

You enjoying the cold in Alberta? Finally warming up here, -28 this morning.

Ted

-39 this AM in Cold Lake.

That is one sweet H&H, if stocks could talk. Just joking about the bbl/ bore length.
Ever since C68 I’ve been sarcastic and twitchy.

What scope is that ?

A Lyman All American 4X, probably older than the rifle. Somebody evidently took care of the scope, as well as the bore.



Yes, I'm sure both the rifle and the scope could tell us a few things about hunting.

With apologies to the OP for the brief hijack.

Ted

If the .300 H&H is an old Mod. 70 Supergrade with a 25" tube and a 4 round magazine I consider it a very "practical gitterdone" set up I would like to have on my wall.

Evidently rifle loonies have very different definitions of practical than most humans. However, esthetics and panache are not generally considered practical considerations, though that doesn't mean they're not valid reasons. Even whether some cartridge/bullet combination kills big game isn't necessarily "practical." Hundreds of smokeless-powder cartridges have killed big game consistently in the 130+ years since the 8mm Lebel was introduced.

I have owned, handloaded and hunted with several .300 H&H's, including a pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester, Ruger No. 1, and a custom rifle built on the Winchester 70 "classic" action. I really liked every one of them, but eventually somebody who wasn't particularly practical wanted them more than I did, whether for esthetics, panache or that mysterious something the French call "je ne sais quoi," which basically means something indefinable.

I'm pretty much done with the .300 H&H, not because I'm so damn practical, but because they sated my desire for esthetics and panache in that particular realm.I have not sated my desire for esthetics and panache in other rifles, but that doesn't mean when I buy, say, a .303 British Ross (as I did a few months ago) that I am being practical. I may be being historical or curious, and panache may even have something to do with it. But aside from the fact that .303 ammo and brass are far more available than .300 H&H, it is not practical.

What is that expression about ignoring history, and being doomed to repeat it.

MD has often mentioned that the 300 WSM has the same case capacity as the H&H.

One of our former liberal francophone prime ministers, who was famous for literally talking out of both sides of his mouth at the same time, While mangling the English language often said
“ Led Me Say Dis about Dat”

The action length has changed, but the ballistic results are virtually identical.
The short action is lighter, stiffer, quicker handling. But oh does that Magnum H&H feed !

If someone else was carrying it for me, I’d much rather have a pair of 26” CRF M70 s in 300 & 375 to deal with what happens.
My 2 boys come to mind. Better get synthetic stocks.

Practical isn’t just about logistics and economics.

to me, the biggest reason is twofold...

1. the nostalgia
2. the cool factor which is off the charts.

This thread is a derivative of the classic "which cartridge is the best?". And, by definition, a rifle looney cannot be practical.

Cartridges are not judged solely on their shoulder angle, name, case capacity or killing power. If that was the case, no one would have bothered developing anything after the 300 H&H. There was no practical need, according to some. What one man considers practical, another considers frivolous. I think 25 calibre cartridges are a waste, but I must defer to the needs of others. The practicality is there. It just doesn't fit my version of it.

This is an excerpt of an article that was written by freelance writer Beth Goldowitz. I have edited it. Consider that attracting buyers and convincing them to buy a 300 H&H rifle meant catching their eye and appealing to their need. There was no Internet or fancy colour magazines. That 300 H&H had to catch your eye, and encourage you to ask about the capabilities of the cartridge with the shop owner or gunsmith. Anyone who examined an 300 H&H was concerned with the actual use of the cartridge. The esthetics of the design were clear.

This continues today. The medium may be different, but cartridges still need to get noticed. One might argue this is more important today because of the number of cartridges available in a crowded marketplace.

Here's what Beth says.

Is there any practical purpose to art?

Art communicates. The stone carvers who worked on Notre Dame could have made simple waterspouts, but instead they carved elaborate and fanciful gargoyles, to communicate the horrors of hell and encourage people to turn to god for salvation. Is that practical? It is if you’re a member of the clergy, who relies on your position in society to be clothed, fed and housed through the donations of wealthy patrons and poor parishioners alike. It is if you’re one of the hundreds of craftsmen working on the cathedral, because that money pays your wages and feeds your family. It is if you live in the town where the cathedral is built, because cathedrals draw pilgrims, and pilgrims need to eat. They need roofs over their heads. They need places to stable their horses. They need food and supplies for their continuing journey. As anyone who lives in a popular tourist town knows, tourists are good for the economy. That’s practical.

It communicates through time, so we can look at 18th century paintings and figure out how people cooked in the time period. It communicates personality, so we can look at Velasquez’ Portrait of Juan de Pereja and see the relationship between the painter and the slave he would manumit soon after painting his portrait. We can look at quilts made by slaves that illustrate stories from the bible for people who were forbidden to learn how to read. Some people think slave quilts communicated information about the Underground Railroad, but we don’t know for sure.
---

Old cartridges, inlaid and carved wooden stocks, unusual, old metal gun sights, trigger guards, or engraved side plates are communicating through time. Once, they attracted buyers who spent money and bumped up the economy. They still do today. They are also of value to historians, collectors or anyone who is interested in hunting and firearms.

The 300 H&H is practical, if it satisfies your needs.

As SteveR says, it’s not the shoulder angle, which necessitated the H&H belt for headspacing.
But the long neck & shoulder from cordite days, which makes it so cool,
un-WSM or perhaps un-Rum even.

Usually it’s the long magnum action , with a classic stock, and stunning performance that is the art.
The whole is greater than the sum of the parts, which all work in concert.

I could be very happy with a cf arsenal that consisted of 6mm/244Rem, 280 Rem,
And a pair of 300 + 375 H&H CRF .All matched, of course.

No need for high pressure throat burners.

Just steady pointing , with clean slick feeding for follow ups.

Cheers

SR - didn’t Mr.Elwood Epps have a 25-303 Improved cat ?

I had one barrelled up on a No4 Mk1 by Bevan King. It was very accurate, but a demon to get to feed Never did get it to handle more than two in the magazine.

That was enough though....

Ted

I know it's already been said but ...

IMHO, yes. The .300 H&H and .300 WSM are near identical once the bullet leaves the barrel. Some actions, like 700s, really don't feed WSMs very well. I've had 2, was dissatisfied with both. Though you have to go with a long / magnum action, 700s feed the .300 H&H slicker than snot on a buttered doorknob. (Not that a .300 Win Mag might not be an even easier alternative.)

However, nostalgia is a pretty suitable reason. I like muzzleloaders, single shots and lever actions, single action revolvers .. why wouldn't I like the .300 H&H? Truly, what's not to like?

Tom

Yes. And all of the improved cartridges that Ellwood developed from the 303 British had 35 degree shoulders. Ellwood and Parker Ackley used to write back and forth, comparing notes. Some of their correspondence was about improving various cartridges. Ackley originally used the 35 degree shoulder angle, but switched to 40 degrees, Ellwood used the 35 degree angle and stuck with it. Ellwood developed ten improved cartridges based on the 303 British case.

There are often feeding problems that result from changing the shoulder and decreasing the body taper. People like Ackley and Epps were experimenters and in some ways helped advance mainstream cartridge development.

I wonder what EE would do to solve that. Those mags have the taper built in.

I’ve often thought about converting an 1895 Winchester in 30-40 Krag, to .303 B ,
or some semi-improved variant

303 British - another great , no venerable cartridge with a cachet of nostalgic cool .

Well, yeah. I have two, the sporterized No. 4 Mark 1 Lee-Enfield inherited from y father's brother Larry, who purchased it at a Coast to Coast hardware store in the 1950's, and an also sporterized Ross 1910.

Had a Ruger 1A for a while, which shot very well, but didn't find it as cool as the old rifles.

Ellwood would have changed the magazine follower. Because there is less taper with the Epps cartridge, the issue follower pushes the cartridge up too high and the bullet tip catches on the upper part of the chamber. It cannot be pushed forward into the chamber. At one time, he did have target (flat) followers that sat in the top of the mag over the existing follower. That made them single shots.

The simplest way to lessen the problem was to load a 303 British cartridge in first, and no more than two Epps cartridges in on top.

the coolest round I think I've ever seen, was a nickle plated 300 H & H with a 220 grain Round Nose.

I'm partial to the old 30/40 Krag with a 220 grain RN and the 303 Brit, with a 215 grain RN.

The 220 grain RN on the 06 case is always my favorite in the 30/06.

Practical?

I think the poster who surmised it might help you more quickly spot interesting vs. less interesting people to talk guns with had a point.

If a single man, I think you might attract a more worthwhile class of woman, one who understands and appreciates old school cool as opposed to the latest wundercartridge.

Yah, I'm not being completely serious. But neither are bad reasons!

Just think Steve McQueen's Jaguar XKSS and roll with the concept.

^^^^

Practical, no, cool yes!

Practical cats are usually a simple neck down of highly available brass.
.20-223, 7mm-300Win, Bushing dies complete the picture

Conversions of the H&H case were numerous, 308 Norma, .30-338 come to mind
Usually shortening it to fit into the more commonly available .30’06 length magazine.

Much more Practical . Loaded to higher pressures, they met velocity goals.

Ted[/quote]

I wonder what EE would do to solve that. Those mags have the taper built in.

I’ve often thought about converting an 1895 Winchester in 30-40 Krag, to .303 B ,
or some semi-improved variant

303 British - another great , no venerable cartridge with a cachet of nostalgic cool .[/quote]

One of these days I'll get around to posting photos-There's one in each chambering living here. The 303 gets used rarely, as it's an original Winchester, it does go hunting in nice weather, though. The 30 US is a Miroku built piece, gets used a fair amount, and qualifies as one of my better gun show finds.

That 1A should’ve either been boxed as an “ investment “, or “ improved “.
Not cool enough ? Too heavy I think would be one issue.

I’ve heard rumours of SxSs that have been converted to the Brit, but never seen such a gem.
Again I think barrel weight with inserts would be an issue. Love to carry it for Moose in bear country though.

F

Op - sorry for the 303B hijacque

SteveR - Thanks for filling in some details for me. I’ve seen/heard of some smle’s converted to 308Win, but they always had a different box magazine. Not sure if barrels were changed too. ;-)

Still for nostalgia, my Jungle Carbine tops the list. Vicious kicker that one.
Folding buttstock with an appropriate height cheekpiece couldn’t hurt.
Not worth the heartache of improving the chambering, or playing with taper.
Tough to improve on practical perfection of a packaged design.

Any improvement in that regard would have to be verified by maintaining the legendary rate of aimed fire against case stretch and extraction issues.

Win ‘94 and .30-30 , another classic 30

Super 30 Practical ? Maybe in the right package. 26” Ruger #1, Yes definitely. Pre ‘64 Sure
H&H or Rigby ? Out of my league, but not out of place.

338,

A local friend (who has more money to "invest" in rifles) has a .303 British double. Can't remember the make, but no surprise, it is a British gun.

Some of the rifles I've invested in that I'd kind of like to keep get sold because somebody reads about them in a magazine article, and makes an offer I can't refuse.

Ruger 1A's are pretty light rifles. With the scopes I typically put on 'em, they almost always weigh under 8 pounds.

It was my pleasure. The magazine had to be changed because the 7.62x51mm cartridge had different dimensions than the 303 British. The barrels were also changed to .308 diameter.

The reason why the No 5, commonly referred to as the Jungle Carbine, was uncomfortable for some people to fire was because of the stock pad. The cartridge is a pussy cat unless the buttplate is removed and a shorter, narrower, hard rubber pad was substituted. It's like the designers didn't test it before giving the go ahead for production.

And this probably should have ended this thread right there.

No. In fact, I would say by definition a rifle loony isn't primarily concerned with practicality, except in the very basic sense that a chosen rifle, cartridge and bullet should kill game.

But that's pretty much a given with the vast majority of rifles, cartridges and bullets these days. You have to try pretty hard to find something unsuitable for taking deer, or even elk.

Instead rifle loonies look more for other stuff, such as the right color stock (whether wood or synthetic), a feeling of self-worth for being such a fine judge of appropriate rifles, and however they define panache.

Interestingly, most dictionaries define panache as flamboyant confidence, or verve or dash in action. This is because the historical meaning was a plume of feathers worn on a headress, hat or helmet. But quite a few loonies seem to think it means conservative style.

Damn, I have to stick a feather in my M70 300.

Or your hat--or headdress....

There's really no reason to own one, unless you just got to have it. The reason i say no is because brass is harder to find than most other comparable 300 magnums, it's harder on brass because of the steep taper, just about any other 300 magnum beats it in performance. With this being said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with owning one, if you already have one. There's a lot of nostalgia and cool factor in the H&H. I'm actually doing something I've been wanting to do for a damn long time and re-chambering one of my rifles to 308 Norma magnum, but it falls in the same category as the H&H. Great old cartridges with history, but probably not the best choice in 300 magnum that's available these days...

I just thought it was because you are really old....

I'd take a 300 WSM over a 300 WM.

And how is that related to the practicality of the H H ?

Jerry

I’d take a 300 WSM hunting, for LR this new 300 PRC has my interest,
but is there anything a 300 H&H couldn’t do with panache ?

At one time the 300 WSM held the 1000 yard title, besting any other 300 magnum before its time. That was a heavy gun benchrest match. The shooter, Matt Kline, shot a 10 shot group measuring 2.815" and scored 100-4x. Its because of scores like these, that the 300wsm is not merely a "hunting" class cartridge and every bit the reason my answer to the ops question was NO. The practicality of using one, just isnt there for me. I explained why in a previous post. However, i will not fault anyone for wanting or choosing to use one.

Didn’t the H&H break records and hold LR titles in it’s time ?

Or is WSM a typo in your post , bsa ?

Several loading manuals record that the 300 H&H was used by the American shooter, Ben Comfort, to win the 1000-yard Wimbledon Cup Match at Camp Perry in 1935.

The 300 Win Mag has reportedly shot much smaller groups at the same distance since then, but the H&H is no slouch in the accuracy department.

Ted

Ted, I think most cartridges are capable of consistently punching small groups. A lot has to do with the quality of the bullet and available powders. Even the rifle action plays a role.

Can you think of any cartridges that would have shot tighter groups, but for the fact that a suitable powder wasn't available? Or well made, round bullets were not unavailable back then? Or the barrels weren't the right twist, or not of good quality?

I am quite sure that 10 or 20 years from now, shooters will look back at cartridges and say, "The Creedmoor and the 6XC were okay. Too bad they didn't have the right powder or bullets for them back then."

I've been loading and hunting with the H&H since 1980 and with the 300 Winchester about the same and also the Weatherby. The H&H has the uncanny talent of shooting 180gr, 200gr Partitions as well as 180TTXs to POI. The other two don't even come close.

Clearly the others are OverBore., Barrel Whippers 🙃

JOC often said about various hunting weight bullets in the .270 Win, that they would often shoot to the same POI

Definitely a Useful, and Practical trait.

Is your 300 H&H fairly heavy barrelled ?

Standard pre-64 (pre-war) 70

Not FeatherWeight then, How does that compare to the Win mag or Wby for inherent stiffness ?

Not qualified to answer that ! 25" barrel and the other two are 26", FW was never made in H&H BTW

J : some here could comment further, but that is a very interesting point about the practicality of more than one hunting weight bullet shooting to the same poi. I assume this is at 100 yards ?

Perhaps this is why Winchester produced them at 25” barrel length , hmm 🤔

Practical reason? Well, yeah! It'll do everything a 30-06 can do in spades, and look cooler while doing it!

From coyots to big bears, H & H will take care of business and not leave you wanting.

jorge,

Some rifles will put various weight bullets in the same group, especially in certain chamberings. My pre-'64 Model 70 .300 H&H do not, and neither did either of my other .300 H&H's, one a custom rifle on the post-'64 Model 70 "classic" action, and a Ruger No. 1B.

To ask a rifle to do this, is asking a lot considering how many different bullet weights there are in the 30 caliber you have to choose from. However, to get a rifle to shoot the 180's and 200's into the same poi, that can be done. I was at the range last month testing one of my new rifles and this is how it did with both 178 grain match bullets and the 200 grain partition:




These ^^^^^^^^^are different charge wts too, as I was looking for a good load for this rifle. It is not finicky at all...

Here's where it put the load my other m1917 likes:


Oddly enough, that's exactly where my m1917 puts them too. Who wouldu thunk that??


So what do you do, when 2 rifles shoot to the same poi? Ha ha...

Don't make me dig up a target pic from my pre 64 fwt 30-06 and this load... That could be 3 rifles shooting to the same poi... Just the way I like them.. Oh, by the way, I tried some old Norma 130 gr. factory loads that I picked up at a LGS for $10.00/box and we don't even want to go there on where they hit the target.. . Lets just say, not the same POI... You probably already guessed that though..

It also depends to a certain extent on the barrel-bedding system. NULA rifles, with barrels full-contact bedded in the very stiff synthetic NULA stocks, are well-known for shooting various loads close to the same place at 100 yards. My NULA .30-06 will group 150's and 200's close enough to make them interchangeable--but even some NULA's won't do it.

Have only seen one NULA .300 H&H, which belonged to a fairly well-known country-western singer who showed it to me maybe a decade ago. I should ask him how it does with different bullet weights.

It is not practical to own anything other than a .22 LR, a 30 06 and a 12 Ga pump We really need far fewer chamberings but that wouldn't be much fun! My 300 H&H is cooler than your 300 WSM. We see in one hundred years. My 300 Savage isn't practical ether but it sure is a pleasure to shoot and the deer hate it!

JB, the aforementioned Model 721 300 H&H with the shortened barrel still had the original factory inletting. I had figured on bedding it "to make it shoot better", but it was more than adequate for hunting so left it alone. Sometimes wondered if the stiffer short barrel made much difference.

My other one is an FN Sporter of similar vintage, and shoots as well as any of my new 300s today.



It is especially accurate with 200 gr Partitions, and also has far more memories than any of the 300 Wins or the Wby.

Ted

Yukoner,

Yep, shorter barrels tend to be more accurate because they're stiffer, everything else being equal.

Nice rifle! I've been tempted a couple times on both 721's and FN's in .300 H&H, but so far haven't pulled the, uh, trigger.

Sold my 721 as the stock had way too much drop at he comb, it would cause you to really raise off the stock to see though the scope. I may be a weirdo but lit my scope mounted high enough that I can put my thumb between the scope and bolt for a comfortable carry. My present 300 H&H is a post 64 Model 70 Winchester that I had re barreled. I've never owned a Mauser, but have been looking for a nice one with the higher comb. There are some really nice custom Mausers out the that make m heart race! BTW I own a couple Savage along with 99's and a 722 300 Savage which I put a Boyds stock and has the higher more comfortable comb, but is a real club, added about 1 1/2 pounds to the rifle. Like to find a rasp artist to slim it down!

All the way out to 200.

Your 721 wasn't practical.

I realize that, hence my comments on this particular rifle AND the 300 H&H Gunner 500 now has. I have two other rifles "blessed" with this gift, a Model 70 in 375 and an early model Ruger RSM (no barrel band) in 416 Rigby. It was by no means a "blanket" statement covering all rifles in that chambering.

Jorge,

I suspected you did, but had to comment.

My experience is that rifles are far more likely to put various bullet weights into the same place at 100 (or 200) yards if:

1) The barrel is heavier in contour, which would also include the SAME contour barrel in smaller calibers.

2) The rifle weighs more than average, which ties into 1.

3) The difference in bullet weight isn't vast--which I suspect is why so many .270 Winchesters put 130's and 150's into the same place.

4) In light-to-medium contour barrels, there's firm contact between the barrel and forend. I already mentioned the NULA bedding, but the forend screw in pre-'64 Model 70's can also work the same way.

Have also seen the same trends with powders that result in muzzle-velocity differences of 100 fps or more in widely varying temperatures.

Thanks for that explanation, John. When I think about it, all three rifles I mentioned fit into the profile you listed

MD I agree fully with your 4 points, but I’m a little confused what you’re saying in this last bit.
Could you elaborate on this last part please.

Also , In 3) above, are you saying that 140s in the 270 are “Half-Vast “ 😁. ?

338,

I tried to avoid the 140 comment, but you did if for me!

Temperature-sensitive powders can definitely change POI when it gets much colder or hotter than when the rifle was sighted-in. In fact this phenomenon was how I got into testing powders at different temperatures in the first place. I tell the story in Gun Gack II, where a very accurate .270 Winchester that shot 130's and 150's into the same small group at 70 Fahrenheit did NOT down around zero. The 130-grain groups opened way up, and the 150's shot about 3 inches from point of aim.

Never ask yourself if you ever have a "reason" for buying another rifle.

If I were practical, I’d have a 30-06, a 12 gauge, a 50 cal muzzle loader, a 22LR, and a .223 at the very most and I’d stop there. I must be impractical.

welllll.....dead elk is one of them!!!

My father had a 30-06, a 12 ga, and 22LR.
Too cheap to buy more guns, and would not buy me any guns when I was a kid. I saved up $10 when I was 10 years old and got a Daisy model 25 BB gun. I have been buying guns ever since.

My M700 Classic.

Here's mine, in part.

That's an attractive rifle. Good stock lines...even if it is a Remington!

I know where there is a NIB and it way way cheaper then that

because it is fun!!

Far more practical than a 6.5 Crapmore!!!!!!

If you own one, you practically do not need to own a lot of other rifles.

The practical reason I have a 300 H&H is "BECAUSE I WANTED ONE". It put down 2 elk this past season.

Centex Bill

Do tell!

I'm just getting going at loading for mine.

Where to start for powder? Have on hand IMR4350, H-4831sc or WW760 with 180s

I don't know what you men think of Ken Waters, I revere his memory, but the 300H&H was one of his lifetime keepers. And he said so, more than occasionally. Perhaps a lesson there.

I scoped my X-Bolt Medallion 300 H&H with a Minox ZX5 2-10x50 BDC 30mm that I got off europtics for $399.

A couple observations:
as many on this forum have said, i don't need a 30mm. a 1" would have been fine. i can't tell difference in brightness between this scope and a 3-9x40 Conquest.
the rifle scope combo comes in at 9 lb 6 ounces. lol, "mountan ready". oh well, my shoulder will appreciate the reduction in recoil
the cross hairs are pencil thin on the Minox, i won't see squat in low light.

i hope this sob shoots light out, because i prefer the LOP of this X-Bolt to my M700s and M77s.

The small and narrow recoil pad on the Xbolt is a practical reason to have a heavy 300 H&H.

Skinny crosshairs not so much.

Ted

H-4831 SC all day everyday, I use it in mine for an easy 2750 fps with 220gr Partitions guided along with a very old Lyman receiver peep, it's accurate enough for playing with 300 yard steel, and it's just plows through deer and pigs, would be fun as hell to hunt timber elk and moose with it.

There are no practical reasons, none, zero.

Asking the folks here is like going to your barber, on his slow day, to ask if you need a haircut.

That said, nobody here is practical and that includes yours truly.

That's one bit of info I didn't know about before reading this thread. ......... Thanks

If practical was a requirement,

The H&H would have much less competition,

And few guns would be so chambered.

If practical ruled, 30 caliber was fully covered in 1906.

I will also recommend RL-22 or MRP with 180gr bullets (71gr and CCI 250 primers) for an honest 3K plus MV and very accurate.

Had a break in the weather and shot my X-Bolt Medallion the other day.
Hornady cases and Federal 215 primers.
200 gn Accubond - 67 gn H4831 - 2714 fps and a good group. Recoil seemed quite comfortable.
200 gn Accubond and Partitions - 79 gn Magnum - 2840 fps and excellent groups. In my opinion this is a maximum load.

180 Speer Mag-Tip - 70 gn H4831 - 2900 fps
- 73 gn R26 - 3033 fps. Excellent group but a maximum load.

Hope this helps. Sneak up on those maximum loads.

Cheers,
Walt

Mine is a pre-64 Winchester. It has a steel butt-plate and I have it shooting 180g bullets at 2950 FPS and 200g bullets at ~2800 if memory serves. Even with the steel butt-plate it is not punishing to shoot. Others I have talked to said the same thing although other factors could come into play on that. I have yet to find a load that doesn't shoot well in it. It is my go to gun since it just seems to fit. Obviously that has more to do with the rifle than the round. It feeds and ejects like it is greased. Cases aren't as available as others, but it is still being made. I bought a bunch of cases some years ago so won't need anymore for awhile.

Temptation got the best of me today. Got a pretty good deal on a pristine Ruger No 1 in 300 H&H!

Go for it if you want it. If practical was the deciding factor we wouldn't have all the goofy wannabe guns that are every where now days. If practical was a decider then we would all have a .22 a 30-30 a 30-06 and a 12 gage with interchangeable barrels.

Congratz, nice rifle .......

Temptation got me today as well. A nice old Remington 721 in 300magnum popped up this week at a very, very good price. Nice original condition with checkering so is the upgraded BDL version. Only negative is that's missing the original recoil pad but not cut. I have a new old stock period Jostam brand vented pad that came to me with my grandfather's stuff after he died in the early 80s. The price on the pkg is $1.39. Probably 50s or early 60s vintage. It will be perfect on that rifle.

Now I need to find a Leupold 3x scope to complete.

You're gong to want an El Paso K6 on it, click adjustments and Dual-X reticle preferred.

Now that’ll be pretty darned cool!