Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters why is 7mm08 more popular than 280 Remington?

We're kind of the low-rent district. If you look on the map, Cynthiana is about the dividing line for the Bluegrass part of the state. I can see Cynthiana's lights on the horizon. I'm about 10 miles south of the Ohio River. I've seen us called the "Outer Bluegrass" as well. We have horse farms, but they're not nearly as ostentatious as what you see around Lexington. Mostly, the Trans-Bluegrass farms beef cattle, goats and sheep.

Remington's hit and miss on marketing rounds is legendary.

IIRC, the .280 was rolled out at lower pressure compared to the .270, to accommodate their 742 semi auto rifle.

The 280 wasn't promoted at full power, at full potential while the .270 was rocking along at 60K psi.

Then it was repackaged as the 7mm Express, which as posted already, didn't work out very well. Not too unlike like the .244/6mm deal, just less successful. The 6mm package worked, is a good round. Rem just had to get the twist right.

Now, we have the .280AI, which seems to be on the right track regarding promo, loads, good brass, performance, etc.. It's just not Remington, doesn't come in a green box...

DF

The issue was the management at Remington, at least early on.
They had a better cartridge in the 280 than did Winchester with the 270.
They also had a better cartridge with the 6 mm Rem, than Winchester did with the 243.
But they didn't know how to make them win, and its not easy playing catch up.
Today, with the information available for anybody with enough ambition to get it, its a little different story.
There is no real excuse for thinking that a 7/08 or a 270 is comparable to a 280.

That's funny right there.


Jerry

my first centerfire was a Marlin 336 30-30. My first bolt action was a 7x57 Ruger Mk II (since given to my son as it is his lucky deer rifle). My third centerfire is an M700 in 280 Remington. It has kept me from buying a lot of other rifles. I still have my Speer reloading manual #13, where the article on the 280 states "if you own a good 280, there's little reason to trade it in for any of the 7mm Magnums"...

I have passed on countless 270s, 30-06s, 7mm08s, 260s, 6.5x55s, and even the 6.5 Creed because the cartridges won't hunt anything i can't hunt with the 280.

But i continue to be amazed at the number of gun shops i enter and when i ask about the 280 i get met with a blank stare - they don't know what it is.

the one thing that might get me off the 280 is a different platform than the M700... i am hankering to try a different platform... i have a bizarre hankering for an X-Bolt in 300 H&H... topped with a Bushnell LRHS...

which is crazy because as i get older i don't need to be moving up in bullet diameter and recoil...

I would agree, except that is the way it is. New is better. Short-action is better than long-action, etc. For a long while it was how many 'S's and 'M's you had in your chambering's name. It's more about perceptions. I used to get questions like "what is flat out to 600 yards?", and my oft-quoted favorite, "Which is more, a 742 or a 30-06?" BTW: you did catch that men prefer buying odd numbers over even, right? From that standpoint alone, 280 REM was doomed from its inception. Remington might have done better if they'd called it the "279.99"

For over a decade, I used 300 Savage as the ideal whitetail deer chambering just as a place for starting the discussion. Someone would staunchly defend the 7mm-08 for a variety of reasons, even though they didn't own one. I have to admit, I don't own a 300 Savage, but I download a 308 Win to match it.

...not to change the direction in this thread...but which gun mfg'er markets a new 7x64 in the US at Rem'Chester'Rger prices?? The 7x64 could satisfy a growing itch for something in another 7mm diameter to pair with my M70 XTR 7x57, that is not a magnum casehead, besides the 7-08 or 280Rem. I wish a 280AI rifle at under $1k was an off the rack possibility now that factory brass is becoming more accessible without having to fireform it.

OTOH in a quick 30 minute looksee survey just now of the reloading online pages I only find one euro mfg'er offering data, Vitavouri (sp?) , that even lists the 7x64 and it's data looks suspiciously like what the US marketer's/mfg'ers offer in a 280 Remington. What am I missing here?
Ron

Vho

IMO you ain’t missin nuttin. The 280 & 7x64 are same, same except nomenclature.

Now the 7x64 R has a RIM case head and. ? I’m not sure ? but the case might be slightly larger.

Jerry

Very much the same except the 7x64 was killing game 40 years before the .280 and it was always loaded to top pressure like the .270 without being hobbled with less pressure to work in an autoloader.

Mauser M12 in 7x64, Sauer 101 Classic, Saki 85

pricey, about $1500 or so

.Thanks all for the insight, and why at plus a $K+ to start this po boy will most likely not ever own a 7x64.
I can appreciate the higher pressure limits of the 270 lives at, been shooting one of some sort most of my adult life since 1969, and never felt under gunned on Texas critters. Just wish the bullet style selection in .277 would emulate the 7mm's in 160's at least. Working thru the 7x57's acquisition and ALL the available toys to play with has been very educational. Hence the interest in something a little faster in 7mm, without going into a belted Magnums of bigger, 280AI may by my answer though.

I did go thru a phase of testing the limits of a SAKO AV 270 to the point that I could only get 3 loadings in new WW brass before the casehead print began disappear....the faster I ran it the tighter the SAKO's groups got, and never had an extraction issue or any other telltale signal of immediate danger. Sanity finally raised it's head and those attempts faded away since a dead critter is still dead critter even at a little slower MV and dead enough with just max book loads. The 270 does seem to be at the back of the line in getting the better bullets & with the new powders has generated renewed interest in JOC's fair haired child.
Ron
.

Verhoo -

FIRST - I agree with the 280 AI answering your quest.

Second, I would not do that for 2 reasons (not your reasons). A. I'm totally fine with the 270 W, eg - 130 @ 3100 fps + / 150 approaching 3000 fps. B. I've been using 'belted mags' since 1978 @. The 7 RM is one of my favs AND my latest purchase.

THIRD - I highlighted your word LITTLE faster. My ? is -- Is the expense & addition of the 280 AI worth the 'little' you get ?

I'm NOT trying to change your mind, just asking a thot provoking ?

Whatever you decide -- Good Luck

Jerry

I'll answer your question:

there are more rifles in 7mm-08. Remington never made that many in 280, but they made a bunch in 7mm08, including the model 7.

all kinds of companies chamber for 7mm08, including lots of entry level rifles.

Dads that bought their kids rifles were more likely to start them with a 7mm08.

around here, 7mm08 ammo is easier/cheaper to find than 280 always has been

There is no end to analysis....marketing will see to that.

Not a recommendation for anyone else but for my limited purposes, and in considerment of today' s bullets (which did change things for me), the 280 make a good heavy and it goes elk hunting. If I go again, I'd take it to Alaska or Africa without qualm. An low profile elevation dial saves me from carrying and shooting a magnum, addressing that past trajectory argument that went on between the ears and the quality of today's bullets addresses its ability to kill well. The 160g bullet class is fine, though I've shot a lot of 175g thru 280's of both ilk. Now another bonus, the heavier stuff in newer bullets take less throating than they used to.

Though you wouldn't know it reading current internet gack, seating the bullet to the lands was well known to the men of old and it has been an effort for a while...

The AI speeds things up a bit and the reloading info today is specifically for it--accurate and relevant to the full potential of the cartridge. Thanks to Nosler, for that. The factory ammo I chronographed was impressive...not so with the 280. As said above, a handloader's cartridge.

I like the 7-08 with 120-140s, for deers anywhere.

I’ve owned 2 280’s - one was a M700 Mtn Rifle, something was goofy with it, you couldn’t get 7mm-08 velocities out of it without getting pressure signs, second was a M70 winlite that I foolishly sold on here. It really had nothing on a 270 in my mind, except more expensive and harder to find factory ammo, though I seldom buy it...but as any traveling hunter knows, when you need it, you really need it.

I’ve been looking at the 7mm-08 as of lately, decided to see what the local Wally World carried for ammo...none, as in zilch. They had 3-4 flavors of 6.5 CM though.

For those that handload and opt for the 7mm-08 for its mild recoil, does it really have anything over a 270 with a 130 gr bullet at 2800?

As with most things, there is usually a good reason for “good press”!

I think those two reasons nailed it.

I think people also prefer a handier rifle for hunting. I have a 25-06 that is my favorite rifle but if there was a mass produced 257 caliber based on the .308 case, I would buy one.

for what i do, i could settle on an M700 in 25-06 and another in 280 and be almost happy as a clam

Theeck

I have wondered IF the 280 R was conceived during a 'Solar Eclipse' ?

Hindu's say Be careful not to conceive children during an Eclipse !


Jerry