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OP
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In Iowa we have to hunt with .35 to .50 caliber for deer. Is there anything out there hotter than 35 whelen. With the whelens we have been messing a lot to 500. And seems past that we loose so much velocity the bullet must be tumbling. Groups .75 moa at 500. 700 can’t it a 12” plate. So looking for something more. Is there anymore options ?
Never trust a man in a wheel chair...with dirty shoes.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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.358 Norma mag or 358 STA are both a step up
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Campfire Tracker
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.375 Cheytac. It's a...significant step up from the .35 Whelen and perfectly legal. Along with the .378 Wby Mag. It's pure idiocy that we can legally use .375 Cheytac and .378 Wby but not a .30-30... I'm using an XP-100 in .350 Rem Mag during the late "muzzleloader" season. Comfortable to 300 with it from a good rest out of the ground blind.
Selmer "Daddy, can you sometime maybe please go shoot a water buffalo so we can have that for supper? Please? And can I come along? Does it taste like deer?" - my 3-year old daughter
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Campfire Regular
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OP
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Rules make no sense. Just trying to play within them
Never trust a man in a wheel chair...with dirty shoes.
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If you can do your own stocking I have a pre-64 Winchester M70 in 358 Norma mag barreled action for sale. $550. PM me if you are interested.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,095 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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In Iowa we have to hunt with .35 to .50 caliber for deer. Is there anything out there hotter than 35 whelen. With the whelens we have been messing a lot to 500. And seems past that we loose so much velocity the bullet must be tumbling. Groups .75 moa at 500. 700 can’t it a 12” plate. So looking for something more. Is there anymore options ? The twist on a .35 Whelan was never intended for 700 yard shooting. The STA will shoot a little faster than a .340 Weatherby with same for same bullet weights and has a more appropriate twist rate.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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If you can do your own stocking I have a pre-64 Winchester M70 in 358 Norma mag barreled action for sale. $550. PM me if you are interested.
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Yes I agree that the Whelen is not the first choice for 700 yard shots. I guess I still approach the hunting like I did prior to the rule changes in iowa. Closer is better
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Joined: May 2014
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
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My brother used his 35 Whelen on white tail does up through bull elk successfully and yes he did shoot deer as far as 500 yards. His bullet of choice for long range shooting was 225 grain Sierra bait tails. His rifle was the 700 Classic, he didn’t need a faster twist. His scope of choice was a K4 Weaver. Yep, not adjustable for power, no adjustable objective, and certainly not a scope that you’d want to twirl the elevation and windage adjustments.
That rifle was his favorite. I tried to buy it when he passed but when I found out his grandson wanted it…
Last edited by Bugger; 03/20/24.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Dec 2017
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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If you can do your own stocking I have a pre-64 Winchester M70 in 358 Norma mag barreled action for sale. $550. PM me if you are interested. It’s amazing that you can consider a 358 Norma Mag on deer, which is capable of killing at long range anything that walks from any angle, and then for public safety purposes apply some idiotic rule that a 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08 Rem or 308 Win is illegal and deemed a risk for use. I suggest that the OP carefully reread the Iowa regulation and if true that any .358 straight wall or bottleneck on up is doable, then I suggest the folks making that rule for Iowa need a full head examination. BTW the M70 sounds like a great deal for someone. The 358 Norma Mag is a potent chamber.
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Rossimp
The Op is right. You could use a 416 Weatherby if you want in Iowa.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
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In Iowa we have to hunt with .35 to .50 caliber for deer. Is there anything out there hotter than 35 whelen. With the whelens we have been messing a lot to 500. And seems past that we loose so much velocity the bullet must be tumbling. Groups .75 moa at 500. 700 can’t it a 12” plate. So looking for something more. Is there anymore options ? The twist on a .35 Whelan was never intended for 700 yard shooting. The STA will shoot a little faster than a .340 Weatherby with same for same bullet weights and has a more appropriate twist rate. I'm not sure what you mean. If a bullet is spun fast enough to stabilize properly at the start, then its stability due to twist increases with distance. I think the OP's bullets are having a bad time passing through the trans sonic speed range.
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When I lived in western AK, one of the guys had a 1917 custom in .358 Norma...some of the witnessed long shots he made on caribou were the stuff of local legend. But that was before the days of rangefinders, streamlined bullets and instant ballistic dope at your fingertips. Was it the man...or was it the cartridge?
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
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Joined: May 2023
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Campfire Regular
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+1 on the Norma Mag., friend had one he hunted the mountains with in NH, very effective. Set up on his was with an internal muzzle break to reduce the recoil a bit.
“To expect defeat is nine-tenths of defeat itself. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is best to plan for all eventualities then believe in success, and only cross the failure bridge if you come to it." Francis Marion - The Swamp Fox
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Joined: May 2014
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Campfire Outfitter
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My brother liked 225 grain Sierra’s for long range (500+) in his 700 Classic. He used a k4 for a scope. No-one told him that fast twist was needed. No-one told him about how his choice of scopes without AO and turrets that spin was needed either. If seen him shoot a dog at a 1/2 mile, one shot. With that 35 Whelen.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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New Member
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New Member
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Here is another vote for the Norma mag. I had one built several years ago and took it to Sweden for a moose hunt. I thought the other hunters would be impressed that I had was hunting with their domestic caliber but it turned out that none of them had ever heard of it.
Last edited by Litetrigger; 03/21/24.
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Joined: Jan 2012
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OP
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Posts: 1,169 |
100% correct on regs.
Also I agree on the trans sonics speed range. As the celp is dropping it can’t handle and I believe they start tumbling.
Also I know they aren’t meant to shoot that far. But when I’m blind hunting I like to have plenty of range and I’m a gun but why not chase the best of the best inside the law ??
Never trust a man in a wheel chair...with dirty shoes.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'd be looking at a cartridge/caliber with better commonly available long range bullets rather than upping the powder capacity and the recoil.
The 375's are generally all twisted to toss the 300 Hornady BTSP, Sierra BTSP and the 350 gr. MatchKing or a 410 Berger which will retain more velocity without kicking the crap out of you if loaded correctly. Your problem is bullets, not muzzle speed or burning more powder.
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Campfire Regular
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I'd be looking at a cartridge/caliber with better commonly available long range bullets rather than upping the powder capacity and the recoil.
The 375's are generally all twisted to toss the 300 Hornady BTSP, Sierra BTSP and the 350 gr. MatchKing or a 410 Berger which will retain more velocity without kicking the crap out of you if loaded correctly. Your problem is bullets, not muzzle speed or burning more powder. There it is. Well said
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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As far as the rules, I'm perfectly fine with them not making sense.
Anything other than shotguns works for me.
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How about the .350 Rigby Magnum?
Guns don't kill people, it's mostly the bullets
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Campfire Outfitter
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.358 Norma mag or 358 STA are both a step up ^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^ memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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I'm very happy with my 358 Norma. It is a 700 that was a 35 Whelen. IMR 4320 (discontinued) and the Hornady 250 Spire shoot .75MOA using a 4X Nikon. If you don't need the distance 375 Win, 375 JDJ and 405 Win would work too.
Some is Good---More is Better----Too Much is Just Right
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I'd go with a 358 RUM, ADG makes 375 RUM & 338 Edge brass that would be a simple, one pass neck down/up & go, they also make 300 RUM & so do the Peterson crew along with others, simple neck ups aren't difficult and can be done with regular dies and expander balls in several sizes/steps
This way you have all of the 358's on the power scale, max load and none of the others can catch up, then you can download to match the lesser 358's with ease, which also opens up a big doorway for multiple burning rate powders you can use
for loading ammo, just use Redding 375 RUM fl sizer & bushing dies with the correct bushings
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 637
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Campfire Regular
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358 wsm with 200 grain barnes ttsx will surprise you, if your looking my 358 wsm built on a Montana 99 chasis might be on the market soon.
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Joined: Jun 2022
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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The people who make the rules usually don’t know what they’re talking about.
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 97
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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358 wsm with 200 grain barnes ttsx will surprise you, if your looking my 358 wsm built on a Montana 99 chasis might be on the market soon. Captain John would you happen to have the reamer for the 358wsm? I have a 358 short wsm I'd like to make into a 35 wsm. I agree with the surprise I shoot the 200 ttsx in a 350 magnum xp-100 repeater and it's killed everything very effectively. Deer to bison .
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Talon2 - no we rented the reamer if I remember right, I can check with the smith that did it he is on the board here ie Chris williams (ctw) - I have shot less then 30 rounds thru the rifle we put together but I am getting a safe overcrowding issue so I might free up some space. Really liked the 200 TTSX Barnes, we did like 5 different charges of powder and more we added the better it got, finally it was we have a winner here. the only real complaint and not really a complaint I have with the rifle is the wood turned out so nice it is really too nice to drag around in the woods, I didn't know what i had really for stock or paid much attention until it was being finished by another member here Jay Ward. If i keep the rifle I was looking for affordable synthetic stock for hunting furniture, belly crawling or wading in the prickly bushes is not easy on stocks.
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Get closer, just like before the laws changed.
Medics bury their mistakes..
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Campfire Outfitter
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Just for reference, here is what the Iowa site says: RIFLES: Rifles firing straight wall or other cen- terfire ammunition propelling an expanding-type bullet with a maximum diameter of no less than .350 of an inch and no larger than .500 of an inch and with a published or calculated muzzle energy of 500 foot pounds or higher is legal for hunting deer during the youth and disabled hunting season and first and second shotgun seasons. The following is a partial list of allowable cartridg- es that has generated the most questions on legal- ity. Cartridges meeting the criteria defined above are legal whether listed here or not. .35 Whelen .350 Legend .358 Winchester .375 Winchester .40 S&W .44 Magnum .444 Marlin .45 Long Colt .45 Raptor .450 Bushmaster
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"Cartridges meeting the criteria defined above are legal whether listed here or not." A couple of ads to the list for the folks up in Des Moines to take into account next publishing LOL
358 Norma Magnum 358 WSM
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