The guy in the video failed to mention that a bullet might be stable in a 1 in 10 twist, but it loses b.c. because it hasn't reached a 1.5 stability factor. With a faster twist it can obtain that stability factor and reach the higher b.c.
The only thing a 165 ABLR gets over the 150 NAB is less wind drift. In my gun, I get 2950 with a 150 NAB. I'd estimate I'd get 2850 with the 165 ABLR. At 500 yards, the elevation is almost identical, the 165 drifts 3.5 inches less with a 10 mph wind. At 400, there's a 2 inch difference in drift.
The wind does weird things in the mountains, like blow 2 different directions between shooter and target. Wind rolling over a ridge or around a point does some interesting things. For me, I'm not comfortable with long range wind calls in the mountains.
Another way to look at windage is in degree of error. If you assume 0 or 2-3 mph hour wind between you and your target, using an assumed 10 mph 90deg crosswind, you have somewhere beween 7 and 10 mph margin of error. If we assume an 8 inch diameter target and a 10 mph wind, you can hold dead on with a full value wind and stay inside 8 inches at some distance - meaning you can be off by up to 10 mph - assuming you have the direction right - at 340 yards with a 270/150 NAB. That distance is about 375 yards with a 270/165.
The main question: can shooter harness that advantage?
I just had a Lilja #2, 8 twist barrel installed on my Rem Titanium 270 replacing the original 22" 10 twist. Fluted and installed by Feldcamp. I was at Sportsmans Warehouse one day looking at scopes and the guy behind the gun counter asked What do you plan on putting this on, I told him about what I was doing......His reply was " You should get one of these 6.5 Creedmores I've got, it'll outshoot and outkill that old 270". I just said yeah right and left.....what a dumbschitt!
Life (and forums) is like a box of animal crackers----There's a Jackass in every box
I just had a Lilja #2, 8 twist barrel installed on my Rem Titanium 270 replacing the original 22" 10 twist. Fluted and installed by Feldcamp. I was at Sportsmans Warehouse one day looking at scopes and the guy behind the gun counter asked What do you plan on putting this on, I told him about what I was doing......His reply was " You should get one of these 6.5 Creedmores I've got, it'll outshoot and outkill that old 270". I just said yeah right and left.....what a dumbschitt!
Sounds similar to a guy I ran into at a LGS. At the time, I was looking for a 280. They had a few Rem 700s and Ruger 77s and asked if any were in 280. He said, "No, but I have several 270s." He then went on to say how the 280 was only good for deer and smaller but the 270 is good for elk too. I just shook my head and left.
When and in what article did Elmer say the 270 was an adequate coyote round? In the book I have he likes it for a NA plains games round like antelope and deer. I have never seen him writing much good about the 30-06, however.
When and in what article did Elmer say the 270 was an adequate coyote round? In the book I have he likes it for a NA plains games round like antelope and deer. I have never seen him writing much good about the 30-06, however.
The quote, though unsourced, appears to be, "... a damned adequate coyote rifle."
In truth, he liked the .270 WCF cartridge a lot more than he liked Jack O'Connor.
I’m slowing down these days, but if I were a bit more spry I might get a fast-twist .270 and go forth to slay. Truth be told, there are other easier options now in the same power range, the 6.5 PRC being the prime example. The main advantage of the .270 for me lies in all the nifty old rifles that exist. I currently have two, but neither has been out as yet. All my prior .270 work was performed with a pre-64 now living at my son’s place. He gets it out most years.
I’m slowing down these days, but if I were a bit more spry I might get a fast-twist .270 and go forth to slay. Truth be told, there are other easier options now in the same power range, the 6.5 PRC being the prime example. The main advantage of the .270 for me lies in all the nifty old rifles that exist. I currently have two, but neither has been out as yet. All my prior .270 work was performed with a pre-64 now living at my son’s place. He gets it out most years.
I like that it can shoot inexpensive 150 gr. Speer cup-n-core bullets at 2800 fps with precision and good performance out to 300 yards, and the high performance lighter 130/140 gr. 1-200 fps faster for the longer shots.
And bulk PPU range ammo, with its good brass, was not too long ago $14/20 box.
Surprised the 150 ABLR hasn’t been mentioned. With RL26 3000fps can generally be achieved, it’s BC isn’t all that far behind the 165 and according to ballistic calculators its trajectory and drift not much diff between the two. No need for a faster twist.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
Surprised the 150 ABLR hasn’t been mentioned. With RL26 3000fps can generally be achieved, it’s BC isn’t all that far behind the 165 and according to ballistic calculators its trajectory and drift not much diff between the two. No need for a faster twist.
The 150 LRAR is a very soft bullet that often doesn't hold together and often loses most of its weight with close range shots. It needs a 1 in 9 twist otherwise its b.c. is reduced, unless you can get it up to about 3150 fps, in which case it's close range terminal performance will be worse. Reloder 26 is not temperature stabile and is not ideal when temperatures get up around 90 degrees or more. If you are running a 10 twist barrel, you are much better off with 140 grain weight bullets using around 58 grains of H4831sc in a .270 Win at around 3020 fps in a 24 inch barrel and 71 grains Retumbo in a .270 WSM at around 3200 fps in a 24 inch barrel. Pressure with both those "maximum" charges is low and accuracy is very good at least in my rifles and the powders are temperature stable. If you need more than a 140 grain .277 projectile you jump to a 180 grain projectile from a .30-06 or .308 at around 2700 fps.
The 150 LRAR is a very soft bullet that often doesn't hold together and often loses most of its weight with close range shots. It needs a 1 in 9 twist otherwise its b.c. is reduced, unless you can get it up to about 3150 fps, in which case it's close range terminal performance will be worse. Reloder 26 is not temperature stabile and is not ideal when temperatures get up around 90 degrees or more. If you are running a 10 twist barrel, you are much better off with 140 grain weight bullets using around 58 grains of H4831sc in a .270 Win at around 3020 fps in a 24 inch barrel and 71 grains Retumbo in a .270 WSM at around 3200 fps in a 24 inch barrel. Pressure with both those "maximum" charges is low and accuracy is very good at least in my rifles and the powders are temperature stable. If you need more than a 140 grain .277 projectile you jump to a 180 grain projectile from a .30-06 or .308 at around 2700 fps.
What game have you taken with the 150 LRAB?
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
The 150 LRAR is a very soft bullet that often doesn't hold together and often loses most of its weight with close range shots. It needs a 1 in 9 twist otherwise its b.c. is reduced, unless you can get it up to about 3150 fps, in which case it's close range terminal performance will be worse. Reloder 26 is not temperature stabile and is not ideal when temperatures get up around 90 degrees or more. If you are running a 10 twist barrel, you are much better off with 140 grain weight bullets using around 58 grains of H4831sc in a .270 Win at around 3020 fps in a 24 inch barrel and 71 grains Retumbo in a .270 WSM at around 3200 fps in a 24 inch barrel. Pressure with both those "maximum" charges is low and accuracy is very good at least in my rifles and the powders are temperature stable. If you need more than a 140 grain .277 projectile you jump to a 180 grain projectile from a .30-06 or .308 at around 2700 fps.
The 150 LRAR is a very soft bullet that often doesn't hold together and often loses most of its weight with close range shots. It needs a 1 in 9 twist otherwise its b.c. is reduced, unless you can get it up to about 3150 fps, in which case it's close range terminal performance will be worse. Reloder 26 is not temperature stabile and is not ideal when temperatures get up around 90 degrees or more. If you are running a 10 twist barrel, you are much better off with 140 grain weight bullets using around 58 grains of H4831sc in a .270 Win at around 3020 fps in a 24 inch barrel and 71 grains Retumbo in a .270 WSM at around 3200 fps in a 24 inch barrel. Pressure with both those "maximum" charges is low and accuracy is very good at least in my rifles and the powders are temperature stable. If you need more than a 140 grain .277 projectile you jump to a 180 grain projectile from a .30-06 or .308 at around 2700 fps.
What game have you taken with the 150 LRAB?
Elk
Have a picture of the recovered bullet(s)? Other details like retained weight and expanded diameter?
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
The 150 LRAR is a very soft bullet that often doesn't hold together and often loses most of its weight with close range shots. It needs a 1 in 9 twist otherwise its b.c. is reduced, unless you can get it up to about 3150 fps, in which case it's close range terminal performance will be worse. Reloder 26 is not temperature stabile and is not ideal when temperatures get up around 90 degrees or more. If you are running a 10 twist barrel, you are much better off with 140 grain weight bullets using around 58 grains of H4831sc in a .270 Win at around 3020 fps in a 24 inch barrel and 71 grains Retumbo in a .270 WSM at around 3200 fps in a 24 inch barrel. Pressure with both those "maximum" charges is low and accuracy is very good at least in my rifles and the powders are temperature stable. If you need more than a 140 grain .277 projectile you jump to a 180 grain projectile from a .30-06 or .308 at around 2700 fps.
What game have you taken with the 150 LRAB?
Elk
Have a picture of the recovered bullet(s)?
No, only the elk. Late afternoon and you run out of light for multiple photos, and skinning and butchering. And I don't post photos at any time.
The bullet ceases to exist as one item, but is in pieces with core and jacket separation at various depths of a large animal.
So you didn't recover it, and assume it's in pieces in an animal. Got it.
You haven't got anything. Judging from your other posts you just seem to be a very angry person with pent up frustrations looking for an argument.
Hardly - you just make sweeping statements about a bullet with absolutely nothing to back it up. Pretty simple really.
You're the one who posted that they were "depressed" with all the "long-range bullchit" and you weren't even replying to me. Perhaps you need to get out and practice shooting at longer ranges some more, then go hunting some more so you can get out of your depression. And spend less time on the computer trying to pick arguments with people.
The 150 LRAR is a very soft bullet that often doesn't hold together and often loses most of its weight with close range shots.
I've had reports that it's not the best elk bullet.
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
It needs a 1 in 9 twist otherwise its b.c. is reduced, unless you can get it up to about 3150 fps, in which case it's close range terminal performance will be worse
The 150ABLR has shot fine in two of my 1-10 twist 270's at 6000ft in altitude with no evidence of stability problems. And when I shot for drop it matched what was predicted with the advertised BC.
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Reloder 26 is not temperature stable and is not ideal when temperatures get up around 90 degrees or more.
Kind've. RL26 loses velocity as temps decrease, and gains velocity as temps increase. It does so in a roughly consistent manner. From 75 degrees to single digits it shot to the same place at 100 yds, and I've done it more than once with differnt rifles. And unlike most I actually temp test my hunting loads. Obviously trajectory will change as velocity changes. RL26's behaviour is different than other temp sensitive powders I've tested.
Have you temperature tested RL26, or any other of your hunting loads?
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
If you are running a 10 twist barrel, you are much better off with 140 grain weight bullets using around 58 grains of H4831sc in a .270 Win at around 3020 fps in a 24 inch barrel and 71 grains Retumbo in a .270 WSM at around 3200 fps in a 24 inch barrel. Pressure with both those "maximum" charges is low and accuracy is very good at least in my rifles and the powders are temperature stable. If you need more than a 140 grain .277 projectile you jump to a 180 grain projectile from a .30-06 or .308 at around 2700 fps.
No. Everything being equal the 150gr is a better hunting bullet than the 140. Better sd, better BC. Because of the the difference in velocity between the 130g, 140g, and 150g, the difference in trajectory is nil. But RL26 shines in the velocity department with heavy for caliber bulets.
The difference on elk between say, 150 NPt in 270 and a 180 NPt in a 06 is impossible to distinguish. I've killed elk with both.
I've been using a 270 for over 50 years, Ive been chronographing 270's for over 40 years, and I've been temp testing hunting loads for 35 years. I've killed a few dozen elk with 270's, more elk with other cartridges. I've got more data on 270's in my load/chronograph binders than most people have load data.
I have a partial box of 150 ABLR's left, doubtful I will buy more. My lifetime supply of $15-$20 a box of NBT"s with a BC of almost .500 will do fine for reaching out and killing a pronghorn. For everything else I'll probably be using Partitions or E-Tips. And quite likely my elk loads will be powered by H4831 (the old fashion kind--not the diminutive short stuff.....).
Just playing around Riflehunter, you have a good rest of your day.
Last edited by alpinecrick; 04/07/24.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
The 150 LRAR is a very soft bullet that often doesn't hold together and often loses most of its weight with close range shots.
So, how many elk did you kill with this bullet to arrive at this sweeping statement? You're giving the impression that it's many. If it was, then you're not very smart sticking with a bullet which offers such poor performance. If it was just one, then you're FOS.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
The 150 LRAR is a very soft bullet that often doesn't hold together and often loses most of its weight with close range shots.
So, how many elk did you kill with this bullet to arrive at this sweeping statement? You're giving the impression that it's many. If it was, then you're not very smart sticking with a bullet which offers such poor performance. If it was just one, then you're FOS.
Brad, you're the last person who should be talking about not being very smart. And I can see that you're getting angrier and angrier, so I'm not communicating anymore with you. I just hope that you don't sink to lower depths of depression than what you're already in.
The 150 LRAR is a very soft bullet that often doesn't hold together and often loses most of its weight with close range shots.
I've had reports that it's not the best elk bullet.
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
It needs a 1 in 9 twist otherwise its b.c. is reduced, unless you can get it up to about 3150 fps, in which case it's close range terminal performance will be worse
The 150ABLR has shot fine in two of my 1-10 twist 270's at 6000ft in altitude with no evidence of stability problems. And when I shot for drop it matched what was predicted with the advertised BC.
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Reloder 26 is not temperature stable and is not ideal when temperatures get up around 90 degrees or more.
Kind've. RL26 loses velocity as temps decrease, and gains velocity as temps increase. It does so in a roughly consistent manner. From 75 degrees to single digits it shot to the same place at 100 yds, and I've done it more than once with differnt rifles. And unlike most I actually temp test my hunting loads. Obviously trajectory will change as velocity changes. RL26's behaviour is different than other temp sensitive powders I've tested.
Have you temperature tested RL26, or any other of your hunting loads?
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
If you are running a 10 twist barrel, you are much better off with 140 grain weight bullets using around 58 grains of H4831sc in a .270 Win at around 3020 fps in a 24 inch barrel and 71 grains Retumbo in a .270 WSM at around 3200 fps in a 24 inch barrel. Pressure with both those "maximum" charges is low and accuracy is very good at least in my rifles and the powders are temperature stable. If you need more than a 140 grain .277 projectile you jump to a 180 grain projectile from a .30-06 or .308 at around 2700 fps.
No. Everything being equal the 150gr is a better hunting bullet than the 140. Better sd, better BC. Because of the the difference in velocity between the 130g, 140g, and 150g, the difference in trajectory is nil. But RL26 shines in the velocity department with heavy for caliber bulets.
The difference on elk between say, 150 NPt in 270 and a 180 NPt in a 06 is impossible to distinguish. I've killed elk with both.
I've been using a 270 for over 50 years, Ive been chronographing 270's for over 40 years, and I've been temp testing hunting loads for 35 years. I've killed a few dozen elk with 270's, more elk with other cartridges. I've got more data on 270's in my load/chronograph binders than most people have load data.
I have a partial box of 150 ABLR's left, doubtful I will buy more. My lifetime supply of $15-$20 a box of NBT"s with a BC of almost .500 will do fine for reaching out and killing a pronghorn. For everything else I'll probably be using Partitions or E-Tips. And quite likely my elk loads will be powered by H4831 (the old fashion kind--not the diminutive short stuff.....).
Just playing around Riflehunter, you have a good rest of your day.
Wow!! I'm impressed. As you probably know, Brian Litz, who I'm sure you've worked with being a fellow ballistician, tested that same 150 grain LRAR bullet and got significantly different results to you in terms of b.c. But maybe he wasn't at 6000 ft. And as I said, a bullet can shoot accurately and seem to be stable but if that stability isn't at 1.5 or above, it can be losing b.c. Before I forget, which published b.c. by Nosler did your findings match with that bullet, the original G1 of .625 (?) or the .591 which they revised it to? I'm glad we agree on RL26 not being stable. It's good that you have settled on the 150 Nosler Ballistic Tip with a b.c. of .496 and a speed of let's say 2800 fps with the long grained H4831. Just sight it in 3" high at 100 yards and as you say, at 350 yards its down 9.7" with a 10 mph wind drift of 9" compared to the 140 Sierra TGK at 3000 fps sighted in 3" at 100 yds which is down only 6.4" and drift of 8.2. Of course, the Berger 140 with a b.c. of .528 drops less and drifts less. Yet the noble Alpinecrick says they are the same, and the noble Alpinecrick is an honorable man...so are they all....honorable men. Unfortunately, the only .277 150 grain bullet with a very good b.c. is the Badlands SB with a b.c. of .710 and none of the 150's that work properly (i.e. obtain their full b.c.) in a 10 twist barrel at sea level have decent b.c.'s....they can't, because they would be too long to fully stabilize in a 10 twist at sea level if they had even reasonable b.c.'s. Oh, there's one more thing. When you are testing actual b.c.'s, make sure next time that you haven't got a tail wind and that the target isn't lower than the muzzle of the rifle. Hint. Congratulations on your cow elk.
The 150 LRAR is a very soft bullet that often doesn't hold together and often loses most of its weight with close range shots.
So, how many elk did you kill with this bullet to arrive at this sweeping statement? You're giving the impression that it's many. If it was, then you're not very smart sticking with a bullet which offers such poor performance. If it was just one, then you're FOS.
Brad, you're the last person who should be talking about not being very smart. And I can see that you're getting angrier and angrier, so I'm not communicating anymore with you. I just hope that you don't sink to lower depths of depression than what you're already in.
Translation: you’re FOS
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
The 150 LRAR is a very soft bullet that often doesn't hold together and often loses most of its weight with close range shots.
So, how many elk did you kill with this bullet to arrive at this sweeping statement? You're giving the impression that it's many. If it was, then you're not very smart sticking with a bullet which offers such poor performance. If it was just one, then you're FOS.
Brad, you're the last person who should be talking about not being very smart. And I can see that you're getting angrier and angrier, so I'm not communicating anymore with you. I just hope that you don't sink to lower depths of depression than what you're already in.
Translation: you’re FOS
At least with your low IQ and your corresponding low income, you can afford to "contribute" 30,230 posts on the internet, even if you can't afford to go hunting.
The 150 LRAR is a very soft bullet that often doesn't hold together and often loses most of its weight with close range shots.
So, how many elk did you kill with this bullet to arrive at this sweeping statement? You're giving the impression that it's many. If it was, then you're not very smart sticking with a bullet which offers such poor performance. If it was just one, then you're FOS.
Brad, you're the last person who should be talking about not being very smart. And I can see that you're getting angrier and angrier, so I'm not communicating anymore with you. I just hope that you don't sink to lower depths of depression than what you're already in.
Translation: you’re FOS
At least with your low IQ and your corresponding low income, you can afford to "contribute" 30,230 posts on the internet, even if you can't afford to go hunting.
Translation: you’re FOS.
I, for one, am not fooled.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
The 150 LRAR is a very soft bullet that often doesn't hold together and often loses most of its weight with close range shots.
So, how many elk did you kill with this bullet to arrive at this sweeping statement? You're giving the impression that it's many. If it was, then you're not very smart sticking with a bullet which offers such poor performance. If it was just one, then you're FOS.
Brad, you're the last person who should be talking about not being very smart. And I can see that you're getting angrier and angrier, so I'm not communicating anymore with you. I just hope that you don't sink to lower depths of depression than what you're already in.
Translation: you’re FOS
At least with your low IQ and your corresponding low income, you can afford to "contribute" 30,230 posts on the internet, even if you can't afford to go hunting.
The bullet ceases to exist as one item, but is in pieces with core and jacket separation at various depths of a large animal.
So you didn't recover it, and assume it's in pieces in an animal. Got it.
I agree it’s a fast expander but I’ll bet the base weighing about 30-40% was somewhere against the hide. Only a sample of some animals with 3 being elk, I haven’t been able to blow one up. My issue with the darned things are getting them to shoot. Some guns come together real quick and some you might as well hand toss them.
I have a 1:8 Lilja 3-groove on a Kimber 84L Montana action/stock w/duplicated factory profile chambered in 270Win @ 22". I have shot 2 rag horn bulls w/the 150ABLR @ 3000fps via R-26. Both were inside 150yds and over 100yds.
Through poor communication and a dozen elk milling around/trotting off, my hunting partner and I ended up shooting the same bull. I shot 1st, heard the hit but saw no reaction. My buddy was sitting basically right next to me and put 2 210TTSX from his .338Win into the same bull. He gutted his bull and I went to find a blood trail as I didn't realize what had happened yet. There was an inch of fresh snow, I followed the small band's tracks for over a mile, finding no blood, I returned and we finished up his elk. Upon skinning, there was 3 holes in the chest, one of them of much smaller diameter being the entrance from my 150ABLR, low in the chest, tight behind the shoulder, right where it should be with a golf-ball sized exit out the other side. First a sense of relief that 1. There's no wounded elk wondering about, 2. I didn't blow a very simple shot, then a good laugh and finish getting the elk into coolers.
The next morning, I'm sitting in the same spot and another rag horn comes up the trail walking almost directly towards me. When he clears the contour enough for me to see his whole chest I put the crosshairs just inside his on-side shoulder and squeeze. At the trigger break, he's dipping his head to take a step up and the bullet enters his neck just behind his ear. Instant lights out, no wiggles. I found the slug @ the base of the neck on the off-side, I don't recall how many vertebrae were essentially turned to "bone dust", several.
The bullet expanded to .550, weighs 55gn, and is peeled back all the way to the start of the boat-tail. Obviously lots of mass was lost, but, the lead that did remain, is still bonded to the remaining copper jacket.
I've shot several deer with the same combo and from 425yds to 550yds, I have yet to recover a projectile, having complete pass-throughs and much more "visible" reactions to being hit than the 1st elk gave.
I've worked up a load for the 140gn BadLands Super-BullDozer to 3075fps, also w/R-26. Accuracy is excellent and the 1 deer I shot @ 50yds through the chest ran about 30yds and tipped over but no recovered projectile.
I know this is the elk forum, but, I have taken more deer than elk. My experience shooting several deer w/140gn TSX's (.404 BC, Ramshot Hunter Powder) from the 270Win @ 3030fps from 450-550yds is virtually indistinguishable from my experience w/the 150ABLR FWIW.
Last edited by horse1; 04/08/24.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
You certainly come across as an arrogant prick.....
Even using your numbers - which are only 1 way to look at it - you apparently can utilize the decreased wind effects at 350 yards of 1 inch given the bullets you cite.
Also nice try on biasing the numbers. H4831 has only been getting 2900 ft/sec in my 270s for 30+ years with "long grain H4831". Using 2900 for the ancient 270, the difference at 350 yards among the bullets you mention amounts to less than 1.5" elevation and less than 1" windage.
I'll take the 270, 150 Accubond at 2900, or 3000 with Re 26, over any of the bullets you mention. At 350, BC doesn't matter much given a decent starting BC. Bullet integrity matters way more than BC at those distances.
And I'll take Brad and alpinecrick on getting it done with a 270. Or any other rifle they have in their hands.......
You certainly come across as an arrogant prick.....
Even using your numbers - which are only 1 way to look at it - you apparently can utilize the decreased wind effects at 350 yards of 1 inch given the bullets you cite.
Also nice try on biasing the numbers. H4831 has only been getting 2900 ft/sec in my 270s for 30+ years with "long grain H4831". Using 2900 for the ancient 270, the difference at 350 yards among the bullets you mention amounts to less than 1.5" elevation and less than 1" windage.
I'll take the 270, 150 Accubond at 2900, or 3000 with Re 26, over any of the bullets you mention. At 350, BC doesn't matter much given a decent starting BC. Bullet integrity matters way more than BC at those distances.
And I'll take Brad and alpinecrick on getting it done with a 270. Or any other rifle they have in their hands.......
Winters, Neither the OP or Horse1 were being an "arrogant prick", so I think you owe them an apology. Perhaps you keep your low-life gutter talk out of this forum. Sure, you can load the 150's higher than 2800 fps with H4831, but so too can you load the 140's higher than 3000 fps with H4831. Unfortunately, you missed the point that the comparison was to demonstrate that the two different weight bullets are not the same as stated by Alpinecrick (who you with your gutter-talk would probably call Alpineprick). I do agree that bullet integrity matters if using the 150 LRAB on elk, and as others have clearly indicated, it is not the best bullet for elk at close range...especially if you aim for the shoulder. It's good to know that for you to get it done on elk, you need a back-up such as Brad (who spends all his time on the computer making 30,200 posts instead of hunting) or Alpinecrick who has tried very hard to do the right thing with all his testing, but unfortunately has drawn the wrong conclusions from those tests. Perhaps one day you can hunt elk by yourself.
Winters, Neither the OP or Horse1 were being an "arrogant prick"
I can't speak for the OP, but, I do know he didn't mean me.
Winters seems to be one of these guys who always needs assistance. First, he needs assistance by Brad or Alpinecrick in "getting the job done" on elk, now he needs assistance by yourself (Horse1) or someone else in deciphering who he is referring to in his post. Some people are like that, always needing assistance.
he needs assistance by Brad or Alpinecrick in "getting the job done" on elk, now he needs assistance by yourself (Horse1) or someone else in deciphering who he is referring to in his post. Some people are like that, always needing assistance.
bwinters never said he needed my help or alpinecrick's. A child could decipher he meant he'll trust either of our experience getting elk in the freezer with a 270, "or any other rifle they have in their hands"... ie, "we get it done."
Capiche?
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Well, whatever he meant with his gutter talk, thanks everyone for assisting him in explaining what he meant.
The fact you resort to petty, personal attacks, coupled with your lack of reading comprehension, poor writing structure in your brain-numbing, authoritarian/lecture-style posts, all adds up to my BS meter getting red-lined. But please, carry on not responding to me as promised...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
I have a 1:8 Lilja 3-groove on a Kimber 84L Montana action/stock w/duplicated factory profile chambered in 270Win @ 22". I have shot 2 rag horn bulls w/the 150ABLR @ 3000fps via R-26. Both were inside 150yds and over 100yds.
Through poor communication and a dozen elk milling around/trotting off, my hunting partner and I ended up shooting the same bull. I shot 1st, heard the hit but saw no reaction. My buddy was sitting basically right next to me and put 2 210TTSX from his .338Win into the same bull. He gutted his bull and I went to find a blood trail as I didn't realize what had happened yet. There was an inch of fresh snow, I followed the small band's tracks for over a mile, finding no blood, I returned and we finished up his elk. Upon skinning, there was 3 holes in the chest, one of them of much smaller diameter being the entrance from my 150ABLR, low in the chest, tight behind the shoulder, right where it should be with a golf-ball sized exit out the other side. First a sense of relief that 1. There's no wounded elk wondering about, 2. I didn't blow a very simple shot, then a good laugh and finish getting the elk into coolers.
The next morning, I'm sitting in the same spot and another rag horn comes up the trail walking almost directly towards me. When he clears the contour enough for me to see his whole chest I put the crosshairs just inside his on-side shoulder and squeeze. At the trigger break, he's dipping his head to take a step up and the bullet enters his neck just behind his ear. Instant lights out, no wiggles. I found the slug @ the base of the neck on the off-side, I don't recall how many vertebrae were essentially turned to "bone dust", several.
The bullet expanded to .550, weighs 55gn, and is peeled back all the way to the start of the boat-tail. Obviously lots of mass was lost, but, the lead that did remain, is still bonded to the remaining copper jacket.
I've shot several deer with the same combo and from 425yds to 550yds, I have yet to recover a projectile, having complete pass-throughs and much more "visible" reactions to being hit than the 1st elk gave.
I've worked up a load for the 140gn BadLands Super-BullDozer to 3075fps, also w/R-26. Accuracy is excellent and the 1 deer I shot @ 50yds through the chest ran about 30yds and tipped over but no recovered projectile.
I know this is the elk forum, but, I have taken more deer than elk. My experience shooting several deer w/140gn TSX's (.404 BC, Ramshot Hunter Powder) from the 270Win @ 3030fps from 450-550yds is virtually indistinguishable from my experience w/the 150ABLR FWIW.
Clay, thanks for a real-world post about the effectiveness of the 150 ABLR. Ditto Scotty's (beretz) post. I've had a box of 277/150 LRAB's sitting on the shelf for a few years, and need to get around to trying them on elk. I don't expect different results than what you guys have had, which is to say they work fine (ie, hardly any different than 50 other bullets). Apparently yours and Scotty's examples "didn't "cease to exist as one item, but are in pieces with core and jacket separation at various depths of a large animal" as our hero here claims (even though he has no evidence for this).
Was chatting today with Dober about the LRAB. He took a nice bull a few years back with the 168/7mm version from His Mashburn (3,200 fps MV). He shot the bull quartering away at 300 yards, and recovered it in the neck after 32"+ of penetration. It put the bull down hard, even though the spine was not hit. His experience mirror's yours and Scotty's (see attached photos).
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
I have a 1:8 Lilja 3-groove on a Kimber 84L Montana action/stock w/duplicated factory profile chambered in 270Win @ 22". I have shot 2 rag horn bulls w/the 150ABLR @ 3000fps via R-26. Both were inside 150yds and over 100yds.
Through poor communication and a dozen elk milling around/trotting off, my hunting partner and I ended up shooting the same bull. I shot 1st, heard the hit but saw no reaction. My buddy was sitting basically right next to me and put 2 210TTSX from his .338Win into the same bull. He gutted his bull and I went to find a blood trail as I didn't realize what had happened yet. There was an inch of fresh snow, I followed the small band's tracks for over a mile, finding no blood, I returned and we finished up his elk. Upon skinning, there was 3 holes in the chest, one of them of much smaller diameter being the entrance from my 150ABLR, low in the chest, tight behind the shoulder, right where it should be with a golf-ball sized exit out the other side. First a sense of relief that 1. There's no wounded elk wondering about, 2. I didn't blow a very simple shot, then a good laugh and finish getting the elk into coolers.
The next morning, I'm sitting in the same spot and another rag horn comes up the trail walking almost directly towards me. When he clears the contour enough for me to see his whole chest I put the crosshairs just inside his on-side shoulder and squeeze. At the trigger break, he's dipping his head to take a step up and the bullet enters his neck just behind his ear. Instant lights out, no wiggles. I found the slug @ the base of the neck on the off-side, I don't recall how many vertebrae were essentially turned to "bone dust", several.
The bullet expanded to .550, weighs 55gn, and is peeled back all the way to the start of the boat-tail. Obviously lots of mass was lost, but, the lead that did remain, is still bonded to the remaining copper jacket.
I've shot several deer with the same combo and from 425yds to 550yds, I have yet to recover a projectile, having complete pass-throughs and much more "visible" reactions to being hit than the 1st elk gave.
I've worked up a load for the 140gn BadLands Super-BullDozer to 3075fps, also w/R-26. Accuracy is excellent and the 1 deer I shot @ 50yds through the chest ran about 30yds and tipped over but no recovered projectile.
I know this is the elk forum, but, I have taken more deer than elk. My experience shooting several deer w/140gn TSX's (.404 BC, Ramshot Hunter Powder) from the 270Win @ 3030fps from 450-550yds is virtually indistinguishable from my experience w/the 150ABLR FWIW.
Horse, you and your buddy have it right. The 140 grain SB is the very best bullet you can use in a .270 (the 150 SB is probably a bit too long and robs a bit too much in powder) when b.c. is taken into account and your buddy using the .338 Win Mag with the TTSX on elk is an excellent choice as the results he obtained prove. The only thing I would "tweak" a little is the .270 WSM rather than the .270 Win and with your buddy, the 225 TTSX rather than the 210TTSX. But these are just minor differences.
Horse, you and your buddy have it right. The 140 grain SB is the very best bullet you can use in a .270.
Anyone who declares something "the best," or believes the concept of "best," is either incredibly naive, or full of BS. In your case I'm pretty sure I know which is the case.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Well-done Mr Do-Nothing Brad, you've got depressed, done nothing yourself for years with the 150 LRAB, posted other people's pictures, made 30,200 posts on the internet, talked to others...but always done nothing yourself. A total do-nothing loser.
Well-done Mr Do-Nothing Brad, you've got depressed, done nothing yourself for years with the 150 LRAB, posted other people's pictures, made 30,200 posts on the internet, talked to others...but always done nothing yourself. A total do-nothing loser.
lol, yup! That's me in a nutshell...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
I have a 1:8 Lilja 3-groove on a Kimber 84L Montana action/stock w/duplicated factory profile chambered in 270Win @ 22". I have shot 2 rag horn bulls w/the 150ABLR @ 3000fps via R-26. Both were inside 150yds and over 100yds.
Through poor communication and a dozen elk milling around/trotting off, my hunting partner and I ended up shooting the same bull. I shot 1st, heard the hit but saw no reaction. My buddy was sitting basically right next to me and put 2 210TTSX from his .338Win into the same bull. He gutted his bull and I went to find a blood trail as I didn't realize what had happened yet. There was an inch of fresh snow, I followed the small band's tracks for over a mile, finding no blood, I returned and we finished up his elk. Upon skinning, there was 3 holes in the chest, one of them of much smaller diameter being the entrance from my 150ABLR, low in the chest, tight behind the shoulder, right where it should be with a golf-ball sized exit out the other side. First a sense of relief that 1. There's no wounded elk wondering about, 2. I didn't blow a very simple shot, then a good laugh and finish getting the elk into coolers.
The next morning, I'm sitting in the same spot and another rag horn comes up the trail walking almost directly towards me. When he clears the contour enough for me to see his whole chest I put the crosshairs just inside his on-side shoulder and squeeze. At the trigger break, he's dipping his head to take a step up and the bullet enters his neck just behind his ear. Instant lights out, no wiggles. I found the slug @ the base of the neck on the off-side, I don't recall how many vertebrae were essentially turned to "bone dust", several.
The bullet expanded to .550, weighs 55gn, and is peeled back all the way to the start of the boat-tail. Obviously lots of mass was lost, but, the lead that did remain, is still bonded to the remaining copper jacket.
I've shot several deer with the same combo and from 425yds to 550yds, I have yet to recover a projectile, having complete pass-throughs and much more "visible" reactions to being hit than the 1st elk gave.
I've worked up a load for the 140gn BadLands Super-BullDozer to 3075fps, also w/R-26. Accuracy is excellent and the 1 deer I shot @ 50yds through the chest ran about 30yds and tipped over but no recovered projectile.
I know this is the elk forum, but, I have taken more deer than elk. My experience shooting several deer w/140gn TSX's (.404 BC, Ramshot Hunter Powder) from the 270Win @ 3030fps from 450-550yds is virtually indistinguishable from my experience w/the 150ABLR FWIW.
Clay, thanks for a real-world post about the effectiveness of the 150 ABLR. Ditto Scotty's (beretz) post. I've had a box of 277/150 LRAB's sitting on the shelf for a few years, and need to get around to trying them on elk. I don't expect different results than what you guys have had, which is to say they work fine (ie, hardly any different than 50 other bullets). Apparently yours and Scotty's examples "didn't "cease to exist as one item, but are in pieces with core and jacket separation at various depths of a large animal" as our hero here claims (even though he has no evidence for this).
Was chatting today with Dober about the LRAB. He took a nice bull a few years back with the 168/7mm version from His Mashburn (3,200 fps MV). He shot the bull quartering away at 300 yards, and recovered it in the neck after 32"+ of penetration. It put the bull down hard, even though the spine was not hit. His experience mirror's yours and Scotty's (see attached photos).
Dober was really the reason I focused on them. After he hammered that bull and knowing what it went thru I was sure it'd be fine, and honestly, It is now on my radar as one of my favorites since it really does create a good swath of trauma and puts stuff down for keep. The base holding together to get to the far side is just icing on the cake. I know I was very impressed.
Anyone who declares something "the best," or believes the concept of "best," is either incredibly naive, or full of BS. In your case I'm pretty sure I know which is the case.
What we have here is somebody who is quite well versed using a ballistic calculator, not so much when it comes to terminal performance and killing elk…
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
Horse, you and your buddy have it right. The 140 grain SB is the very best bullet you can use in a .270 (the 150 SB is probably a bit too long and robs a bit too much in powder) when b.c. is taken into account and your buddy using the .338 Win Mag with the TTSX on elk is an excellent choice as the results he obtained prove. The only thing I would "tweak" a little is the .270 WSM rather than the .270 Win and with your buddy, the 225 TTSX rather than the 210TTSX. But these are just minor differences.
The last sentence is the best IMO.
After having seen/taken elk with 270's and 130, 140, 150, and 155gr bullets. They all work. Now if you want to argue ballistic minutiae go ahead.
When working up loads for a 1:10 twist, I tried the 145gr ELD-X and 150gr LRAB. The ELD-X shot better. I found the ELD-X to be soft and ruin meat on antelope and deer. Have no desire to try one on an elk.
When working up loads for a 1:8 twist 270 WCF I have, I shot 170gr BT's, 155gr LRX, and 150gr Badlands Super Dozer. The rifle shoots all of them really good. Since I had an elk tag last fall I went with the LRX, proven bullet design and manufacturer. I plan on using the Badlands this fall on antelope and deer.
I have never fired a 165gr LRAB out of any of my 270's. Do not plan on it in the near future, but never say never. I do not like soft bullets as they cause excessive meat loss.
As far as 338 projectiles, I will take a 210gr mono every time and not worry one bit. Ballistic minutiae excluded of course. If included, probably want to start looking at the 270gr ELD-X for hunting.
Some of these guys like Alpinecrick keep making the same mistakes over and over again. I suppose the saying holds true "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". If they improved their shooting a bit, then they could hit what they aim for. They could then use good mono's to break the shoulder of elk (which incidentally, are not significantly different to other large, heavy boned game) instead of worrying about missing the shoulder because of their poor aim and going through the ribs, with the mono's not expanding enough. Hence, they use too soft a bullet.
Son, I used X-Bullets to a kill elk and a moose in the early 90’s—bet you weren’t even on the planet yet.
Odds are I’ve killed more elk at less than 100 yds than you’ve killed elk. More so, as age and nobility set in, one realizes the difference between .05 in BC and 100 fps has very little to do with consistently bringing home elk.
Indeed, my fav lead core elk load is the 160 NPt—which shoots a lot flatter than any ballistic calculator predicted using the advertised BC.
My problem is every time I carry that load in one of my 270’s I can’t find an elk more than 60 yds away….
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
Well-done Mr Do-Nothing Brad, you've got depressed, done nothing yourself for years with the 150 LRAB, posted other people's pictures, made 30,200 posts on the internet, talked to others...but always done nothing yourself. A total do-nothing loser.
Did you get hit in the head recently, or just now frequenting this section of the forum? There are a fair number of guys on here that have filled their elk tags for as long as they've tried. I wouldn't know Brad if I saw him on the street, but I do know that he's killed a ridiculous number of elk. He knows how to work on rifles, is willing to offer solid advice when asked, but alas, doesn't appear to suffer fools. And yet, here you are...
Well-done Mr Do-Nothing Brad, you've got depressed, done nothing yourself for years with the 150 LRAB, posted other people's pictures, made 30,200 posts on the internet, talked to others...but always done nothing yourself. A total do-nothing loser.
Did you get hit in the head recently, or just now frequenting this section of the forum? There are a fair number of guys on here that have filled their elk tags for as long as they've tried. I wouldn't know Brad if I saw him on the street, but I do know that he's killed a ridiculous number of elk. He knows how to work on rifles, is willing to offer solid advice when asked, but alas, doesn't appear to suffer fools. And yet, here you are...
And what makes you significant enough that what you say has any value at all...fool?
Son, I used X-Bullets to a kill elk and a moose in the early 90’s—bet you weren’t even on the planet yet.
Odds are I’ve killed more elk at less than 100 yds than you’ve killed elk. More so, as age and nobility set in, one realizes the difference between .05 in BC and 100 fps has very little to do with consistently bringing home elk.
Indeed, my fav lead core elk load is the 160 NPt—which shoots a lot flatter than any ballistic calculator predicted using the advertised BC.
My problem is every time I carry that load in one of my 270’s is I can’t find an elk more than 60 yds away….
Alpinecreep, wrong again about the Barnes X (which I've used significantly - yes they copper fouled, generated higher pressure, didn't open as well as the TSX's and weren't as accurate) and I'm not your son, old man. If you can't take it, don't dish it out in the first place.
Son, I used X-Bullets to a kill elk and a moose in the early 90’s—bet you weren’t even on the planet yet.
Odds are I’ve killed more elk at less than 100 yds than you’ve killed elk. More so, as age and nobility set in, one realizes the difference between .05 in BC and 100 fps has very little to do with consistently bringing home elk.
Indeed, my fav lead core elk load is the 160 NPt—which shoots a lot flatter than any ballistic calculator predicted using the advertised BC.
My problem is every time I carry that load in one of my 270’s is I can’t find an elk more than 60 yds away….
Anyone who declares something "the best," or believes the concept of "best," is either incredibly naive, or full of BS. In your case I'm pretty sure I know which is the case.
What we have here is somebody who is quite well versed using a ballistic calculator, not so much when it comes to terminal performance and killing elk…
Casey, the longer this goes on the more convinced I am we're dealing with a teenager in his mom's basement - or at least the adult version of it.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Son, when it come to using a ballistic calculator you’re the man, when it comes to using the bullet in the field it’s obvious you’re plumb full of it…..
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
You should write a book: The Definitive Guide to Rifle Bullets. Subtitled: The Answer to Everything.
Any tips on elk bullets in the 7mm Rem Mag from 25 to 600 yards? A friend wants to know.....
Winters, yes certainly. Tell the friend to rebarrel and rechamber to 7 PRC and use 175 grain bullets. (And notice that I wasn't rude enough to repeat your stutter...b-b-b-winters, b-b-b-winters)
Son, I used X-Bullets to a kill elk and a moose in the early 90’s—bet you weren’t even on the planet yet.
Odds are I’ve killed more elk at less than 100 yds than you’ve killed elk. More so, as age and nobility set in, one realizes the difference between .05 in BC and 100 fps has very little to do with consistently bringing home elk.
Indeed, my fav lead core elk load is the 160 NPt—which shoots a lot flatter than any ballistic calculator predicted using the advertised BC.
My problem is every time I carry that load in one of my 270’s is I can’t find an elk more than 60 yds away….
Ain’t no problem I can see
The problem is he can't see an elk further than 60 yds without spectacles, and is too frail to carry binoculars around his neck.
Anyone who declares something "the best," or believes the concept of "best," is either incredibly naive, or full of BS. In your case I'm pretty sure I know which is the case.
What we have here is somebody who is quite well versed using a ballistic calculator, not so much when it comes to terminal performance and killing elk…
Casey, the longer this goes on the more convinced I am we're dealing with a teenager in his mom's basement - or at least the adult version of it.
Brad, I don't usually reply to trolls such as yourself, knowing that in real life they are both mentally and physically very weak, gutless creatures who, if you did meet them in real life would be hard to distinguish between dog crap and a living thing. But, I make an exception in this instance, and only this instance.
Son, when it come to using a ballistic calculator you’re the man, when it comes to using the bullet in the field it’s obvious you’re plumb full of it…..
I keep telling you I'm not your son. I have very good genes which have come from my parents, not poor genes, which, were you my father, would be inferior. Now I know you'd dearly love to have a son like me, someone you could be extremely proud of, but unfortunately I can't change the fact that you weren't good enough to have me.
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