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Joined: Mar 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2005
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The 357 mag steps into sort of another league out of carbine length barrels. This is especially true if you reload and are picky with your bullets. I’ve loaded a couple rifles year ago with everything from 2400, H110 and RE7 and can tell you the package is an honest deer rifle from 100 yds to a bit more. Some rifle cranks I’ve known swear a hot loaded 357 carbine delivers enough energy even to 150 yds. I knew these older men, knew their experience and believed them.
Now there are all kinds of people who will swear with no actual physical proof that the S&W K frames can’t handle 40-45K of pressure but the old US Border Patrol used to put 30K stiff rounds through their 19’s, year after year. I realize the famous Jim Jordan shot a model 27 N farme but if you ever saw the size of his hands the 27 looked like a J frame. So if you’re the type the shoots this kind of regimen in your K frames then I guess the L frame is your ticket. Same grip size but heavier frame and yoke. This was factory’s answer to the buying public’s fear of worn out worthless K frames, believe it or not. When I was in the business about 60-70% of my work load was revolvers and especially K frames. I took care of rental guns at two indoor ranges and have seen my share of abused handguns including cracked Sig 9mm frames, and yes cracked K frames in way of the barrel threads but not that common. Otherwise K frames with lots of work at high pressure loads do stretch. It’s actually pressure related frame distortion originating from the top strap. So you’ll get varying degrees of end shake but this is far from the death of the gun, depending on measurements. Any decent mechanic can tighten the revolver up again and a new lease on life.
Rick Bill Jordan is credited with pitching the idea of a K-frame .357 to S&W. Bill Jordan worked with S&W to design the Combat Magnum .357 K-frame. This was later named Model 19 when S&W began numbering their models. Jordan carried and used the K-frame on duty and in his shooting exhibitions. Skeeter Skelton carried a 5" Model 27 N-frame for much of his career. Maybe that is who you were thinking of.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,165 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,165 Likes: 4 |
Tangent alert.
An old friend of mine in Texas was a motorcycle cop in California. He carried a 27 I believe. But the interesting thing was his duty gear, he had a custom speed loader pouch that held 4 instead of 2.
Anyway that isn’t something you see everyday.
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Joined: May 2014
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
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Absolutely. If you have a 357, its value is almost nothing. Heck a real decent S&W is at most worth $50. But since I’m a nice guy, I’m here to help you poor guys that are stuck with that junk.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 503
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 503 |
The 357 mag steps into sort of another league out of carbine length barrels. This is especially true if you reload and are picky with your bullets. I’ve loaded a couple rifles year ago with everything from 2400, H110 and RE7 and can tell you the package is an honest deer rifle from 100 yds to a bit more. Some rifle cranks I’ve known swear a hot loaded 357 carbine delivers enough energy even to 150 yds. I knew these older men, knew their experience and believed them.
Now there are all kinds of people who will swear with no actual physical proof that the S&W K frames can’t handle 40-45K of pressure but the old US Border Patrol used to put 30K stiff rounds through their 19’s, year after year. I realize the famous Jim Jordan shot a model 27 N farme but if you ever saw the size of his hands the 27 looked like a J frame. So if you’re the type the shoots this kind of regimen in your K frames then I guess the L frame is your ticket. Same grip size but heavier frame and yoke. This was factory’s answer to the buying public’s fear of worn out worthless K frames, believe it or not. When I was in the business about 60-70% of my work load was revolvers and especially K frames. I took care of rental guns at two indoor ranges and have seen my share of abused handguns including cracked Sig 9mm frames, and yes cracked K frames in way of the barrel threads but not that common. Otherwise K frames with lots of work at high pressure loads do stretch. It’s actually pressure related frame distortion originating from the top strap. So you’ll get varying degrees of end shake but this is far from the death of the gun, depending on measurements. Any decent mechanic can tighten the revolver up again and a new lease on life.
Rick Bill Jordan is credited with pitching the idea of a K-frame .357 to S&W. Bill Jordan worked with S&W to design the Combat Magnum .357 K-frame. This was later named Model 19 when S&W began numbering their models. Jordan carried and used the K-frame on duty and in his shooting exhibitions. Skeeter Skelton carried a 5" Model 27 N-frame for much of his career. Maybe that is who you were thinking of. I met and talked with Bill Jordan at the Shot Show in Vegas years ago. I was with an old time writer Dean Grennel and Wes Ugalde and Jordan signed his book. In shaking his hand you cannot ignore the size so it’s no wonder he cut trigger guards on K’s. He explained his input and work with S&W and the revolvers. The issued PB guns at that time according to him were K frames but he shot the 27 as his favorite for competition etc. and alluded to the fact that might have carried it on the job wink wink when necessary. Anyway it was years ago and that’s how I recall it. As for Skeeter are you sure you’re not thinking Charlie Askins ? Of course at my age my memory can resemble fog lifting, drifting and thinning out. Rick
Last edited by Woodpecker; 04/14/24. Reason: Addendum
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,959 Likes: 3 |
Colonel Askins preferred Colts, Skeeter S&W
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,706
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,706 |
Askins did indeed like the Colt guns and that is what he bought for issue revolvers when he was in charge of such at the Border Patrol. Skeeter was an S&W man and his 5" M27 became his favorite. Due to his writings that particular setup developed a cult-like following among pistolaros of the time. Jordan developed the Combat Magnum with S&W which later became the Model 19. The N-frame was too heavy to pack for a long shift. That Combat Magnum M19 was his pick for a duty revolver. Jordan shot S&W K-frames in his shooting exhibitions. He mostly used wax bullets fired by a primer in the .38 Special.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23 |
Askins did indeed like the Colt guns and that is what he bought for issue revolvers when he was in charge of such at the Border Patrol. Skeeter was an S&W man and his 5" M27 became his favorite. Due to his writings that particular setup developed a cult-like following among pistolaros of the time. Jordan developed the Combat Magnum with S&W which later became the Model 19. The N-frame was too heavy to pack for a long shift. That Combat Magnum M19 was his pick for a duty revolver. Jordan shot S&W K-frames in his shooting exhibitions. He mostly used wax bullets fired by a primer in the .38 Special. Back in the 1980s, I used to shoot wax, primer-powered, bullets a lot. Allows you to shoot in your home or (if you don't live on a lot of land) backyard. I'd melt the wax in Altoids cans, then, before it hardened, I'd press the primed case mouths into them. When it cooled, viola, wax bullet cartridges, like full wadcutters made of wax. PS You need to open up the primer hole in the primer pocket a bit to prevent lockup of the revolver due to primers backing out. Also, real bees wax works best, since it has a higher melt point than the stuff they make candles from nowadays.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,504 Likes: 10 |
In case anyone's interested, all this talk of .357's made me go out haunting the local pawn and gun shops.
At La Familia in Hollywood, FL, a local pawn shop that bought the gun shop where I used to do a lot of horse trading, they had a 19-4 in very good condition. 4", blued. Barely a turn line. Recessed cylinder and pinned barrel. $799 on the price tag. They are a pretty good size pawn shop chain out of Orlando. Several shops. I'm sure somebody could make a nice deal on that gun. And before anybody asks why I didn't buy it, I've probably got 14 or 15 .357's. I don't really need another one.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23 |
In case anyone's interested, all this talk of .357's made me go out haunting the local pawn and gun shops.
At La Familia in Hollywood, FL, a local pawn shop that bought the gun shop where I used to do a lot of horse trading, they had a 19-4 in very good condition. 4", blued. Barely a turn line. Recessed cylinder and pinned barrel. $799 on the price tag. They are a pretty good size pawn shop chain out of Orlando. Several shops. I'm sure somebody could make a nice deal on that gun. And before anybody asks why I didn't buy it, I've probably got 14 or 15 .357's. I don't really need another one. LOL. Then why did you go shopping for one? PS I'd be tempted to jump on the 19-4. Pinned and recessed. I've got a like-new 19-5 four incher, but I wish it was a -4. I've got a -4 snubby and a -4 six inch, both also in like-new condition.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,504 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,504 Likes: 10 |
In case anyone's interested, all this talk of .357's made me go out haunting the local pawn and gun shops.
At La Familia in Hollywood, FL, a local pawn shop that bought the gun shop where I used to do a lot of horse trading, they had a 19-4 in very good condition. 4", blued. Barely a turn line. Recessed cylinder and pinned barrel. $799 on the price tag. They are a pretty good size pawn shop chain out of Orlando. Several shops. I'm sure somebody could make a nice deal on that gun. And before anybody asks why I didn't buy it, I've probably got 14 or 15 .357's. I don't really need another one. LOL. Then why did you go shopping for one? PS I'd be tempted to jump on the 19-4. Pinned and recessed. I've got a like-new 19-5 four incher, but I wish it was a -4. I've got a -4 snubby and a -4 six inch, both also in like-new condition. Hey Clyde, I didn't "go shopping for one". I go shopping at pawn shops for whatever I might find.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23 |
Hey Clyde, I didn't "go shopping for one". I go shopping at pawn shops for whatever I might find. "All this talk of .357's made me go out haunting the local pawn and gun shops." - Local Dirt
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Joined: Sep 2014
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,864 Likes: 5 |
Wish we had pawn shops.
The closest is 40 miles and out of state.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,959 |
Colonel Askins preferred Colts, Skeeter S&W Askins had a nickel 44 Special IIRC.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,504 Likes: 10 |
Hey Clyde, I didn't "go shopping for one". I go shopping at pawn shops for whatever I might find. "All this talk of .357's made me go out haunting the local pawn and gun shops." - Local Dirt That's exactly what I said, dumb fugk. Not a single word said that I was hunting specifically for a .357. You really do deserve all the heat you get for being a moron.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,504 Likes: 10 |
Wish we had pawn shops.
The closest is 40 miles and out of state. Dillonbuck, I've got at least 6 good ones within 5 miles of my house. I live about 4 miles from the Hard Rock casino. Wherever you have a gamlng facility, there are always going to be pawn shops nearby.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,948 Likes: 5 |
357 is as dead as the 30-06, not Not dead, but both are declining. The current interest in lever action cowboy guns is keeping 357 mag going. And there are plenty of 30-06 rifles already in circulation to keep factory ammo well stocked for a long time. But new rifles in 30-06 aren't selling anywhere near like they used to. To a lesser extent that is true with 357 revolvers. I still see 357 revolvers on store shelves but can't remember the last NEW 30-06 rifle I saw on a gun rack. Pawn shops are full of good used ones though.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23 |
That's exactly what I said, dumb fugk. Not a single word said that I was hunting specifically for a .357.
You really do deserve all the heat you get for being a moron. What a silly thing to argue about, but it's clear that all reasonable people would understand your words to mean you were interested in .357 Magnums while haunting those shops.
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,196 Likes: 4 |
Askins says in his biography that he was at least partially responsible for the Border Patrol getting 4” Colt New Service revolvers in 38 Special. He talked of having a tool made up to bend the front sights and zeroed all of them before they were issued.
Probably a driving factor in Jordan’s quest for the K frame Combat Magnum. I think the New Service is at least as heavy if not heavier than the Heavy Duty S&W.
I don’t know if Askins was inclined to one brand in particular. He wrote of using Colt, S&W, and High Standard guns for both target and business purposes.
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,864 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,864 Likes: 5 |
Wish we had pawn shops.
The closest is 40 miles and out of state. Dillonbuck, I've got at least 6 good ones within 5 miles of my house. I live about 4 miles from the Hard Rock casino. Wherever you have a gamlng facility, there are always going to be pawn shops nearby. There are pluses and minuses on locations. While I like pawn shops, seeing them, along with gambling, payday lenders, bail/bondsman places, check cashing/ Western Union....tells me I don't want to hang around too long. Developed areas have always seemed weird to me. 5 miles sees little change in folks or their average situation here. 2 blocks in a city can go from ghetto to the Mayor's Mansion. Also don't have Costco or IKEA within 100 miles. Never been in wither. Heck, Golden Corral is about 80 miles,and in Commie MD.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
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That's exactly what I said, dumb fugk. Not a single word said that I was hunting specifically for a .357.
You really do deserve all the heat you get for being a moron. What a silly thing to argue about, but it's clear that all reasonable people would understand your words to mean you were interested in .357 Magnums while haunting those shops. Fugk you again. That's not what I said. I never go to pawn shops looking for one particular gun or caliber Now why don't you go haunt some other thread and stop [bleep] this one up, moron. Go find a Jew hater thread. That's more your style.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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