Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 308 Winchester & 110 grain Mono

Thinking of the Barnes TTSX or Hornady CX in this weight for my Savage 99 carbine. Sounds like Ramshot Tac will work, any other powder suggestions that will give good accuracy at less than full throttle loads? Will be a short range black bear load.


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Posts like this leave me scratching my head. To each their own but a 110 mono at 3100-3200 fps would NOT be my choice for a short range bear load.

Seems like a better mouse trap to me.


This will be a hunting load, not a defensive situation. I see this bullet completely passing thru even a big bear with good expansion & lower recoil than my current 180 grain loading for this rifle.

What about the 130TTSX and some Tac?

I recently used this combination in Namibia. Velocity was 3190. At 200 yards it completely passed through a gemsbok.

Accuracy was stellar, one shot drops on both critters.

Some people just can't seem to wrap their head around the entire Barnes ttsx concept, no matter how many times it's explained to them.

Leaves me scratching my head.

I like the 130 Barnes in 300 Savage, kills cshit DRT. I bet it be good in 308’s, but 150 GameKings do me well, have a hard time changing from a bullet that kills well also.

Same.

I've had a few experiences with bullets that didn't result in quick, clean deaths.
Not into experimenting with expensive stuff that may not please me.

For normal range work, 150 to 180gr 308 bullets are like death and taxes.
Dozens of reasons why folks might stray off that path, good ones...for them.

New to me 308 project, that might get done. When it does itsgonna get something
new and exciting run through it. 150 BT. picked up some cheap.
Usually use 165s.😉

I wouldn’t intentionally use a .308 on big bears.

I am one who's always puzzled by those who have apparently never use a monolithic bullet of any kind on big game, yet apparently assume they won't penetrate any deeper than traditional cup-and-core bullets.

Eileen and I have been using monos of various brands on a wide variety of big game since the late 1990s, Eileen primarily the 100-grain Barnes TSX and then the 100-grain Tipped TSX after the TTSXs appeared in 2004. With that bullet in the .257 Roberts she's taken big game up through elk in size with no problems. Oh, and she's taken elk and similar-sized African big game with the .308 and 130-grain and 150-grain monolithics.

Am also perhaps even more astounded by those who assume the .300 Savage or .308 Winchester aren't enough for black bears.

TAC does work great with lighter bullets in the .308--and .300 Savage, getting around 2900-3000 fps with 125-grain bullets and no "pressure problems" in Savage 99s.

MD, any advantage with the 130 grain over the 110 in a tipped mono?

I'm assuming either one will blow right thru a black bear on a heart/lung shot with the velocities were talking about.

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How about a big fat SOFT NOSED, bullet of any make, weighing at least 150 grains.

How many elk have you shot with the 308 Win and mono's?

(Brad) How many elk have you shot with the 308 Win and mono's?



I thought the topic was bears ??? Out of my 73 elk kills, three, have been with mono"s. When those did not work for me I gave them away and went back the 180 gr. Nosler Partitions. The one and only bear I cared to kill was with an 06 with 180 gr Nosler PT. While I have a 308 that I have used on deer I prefer more energy for elk. I use the 160 AB in my 280 Ackley Imp, and 180 Partitions in my 300 WM. Oh! one more thing the majority of my elk kills have been with the 300 WM, with an average distance of about 300 yards.

I meant to ask, "how many bears have you shot with the 308 Win and mono's?"

I've probably loaded and shot as many if not more TTSX, LRX, Hammer and GMX bullets as anyone including you. Have you guided bear hunters for over 20 years, been in on well over 100 bear kills, and have taken a dozen yourself? I have in the state of Maine.

I've probably loaded and shot as many if not more TTSX, Hammer and GMX bullets as anyone including you. Have you guided bear hunters for over 20 years, been in on well over 100 bear kills, and have taken a dozen yourself? I have in the state of Maine.

I've probably loaded and shot as many if not more TTSX, Hammer and GMX bullets as anyone including you. I'm well aware that mono's are light grain per caliber and need to be driven fast. Have you guided bear hunters for over 20 years, been in on well over 100 bear kills, and have taken a dozen yourself? I have in the state of Maine and again I would not recommend that light of a bullet at short range for bear. I've seen more 1 shot and drop kills with 165 & 180 grain partitions than any other bullet.

Don't listen to the naysayers. I can assure you that a 110 grain mono in .30 caliber is plenty for black bear. Between the 110 grain Barnes Tac-TX, the 120 grain Tac-TX and the 110 grain Hornady GMX (now called CX), I've taken dozens of hogs -- and some were quite large. From a purely structural standpoint in terms of a hog's anatomy, if these bullet can do the job on a fully mature boar, they'll be fine on a black bear.

And yes, TAC will work, but don't overlook H4895, AA2495, Varget or SW Precision.

No, I have not "guided bear hunters for over 20 years, been in on well over 100 bear kills," but have taken them from Montana to Alaska. During that also witnessed quite a few others being taken with a wide variety of cartridges/loads--including 12-gauge slugs. I am not surprised the 165 and 180 Partitions have worked very well.

But am also am assuming the bears you and your hunters have taken were baited. If that's not correct, let me know. One of my long-time Montana friends grew up in Maine, where his father guided for black bears. His experience is that a good broadhead kills as quickly (or even quicker) than most bullets when put through the lungs. (Have also seen this personally with elk.)

Eileen and I have killed around 150 animals with various monolithics, and I've witnessed at least 100 taken by other hunters. Haven't quit using them due to "killing too slow."

Just about any bullet that penetrates and expands sufficiently placed though the shoulders and/or spine will drop them right there. In the past few months a guy on the Campfire tried to "prove" that cartridges bigger than the .375 H&H kill Cape buffalo far quicker. The example he provided, however, was two bulls, one shot behind the shoulders with a .375, which went around 75 yards before falling, and the other shot through the shoulders and spine with a .45+ caliber double rifle, which of course dropped right there.

I am glad Bobby chimed in. I knew he had experience with this particular bullet. I’ve shot bears with even less and not, had a problem. If you don’t think a 308 shooting a monolithic bullet as described won’t kill a black bear, you are missing something or paranoid or both.

I’ve loaded the 130-grain TTSX over TAC in the 308, but not anything lighter. I get 270 Winchester speeds, even in 20” barrels, and superb accuracy. I’d use it on a black bear.

TAC burns cleaner and groups better with charges near max. I’d look at H4895 for lower-velocity loads.


Okie John

I use the 110 grain Tac-TX in my 30-06. I was looking for a lower-recoiling load than the 180 grain loads I had been using. I ordered TTSXs but was sent Tac-TXs. The Tac-TX is intended for the 300 Blackout and its lower velocities, but JB has written that he can't tell the difference in killing effectiveness when a mono sheds its petals vs. when they don't, so I kept them. 110 grain TTSXs were also out-of-stock everywhere at the time, anyway. I loaded them with a mild charge of TAC. Muzzle velocity is around 3200fps. Three-shot groups were just under an inch, which is more than good enough for me. I shot this buck last November at a later-lasered 184 yards. He was between broadside and quartering towards me. I hit him low and just behind the shoulder. The bullet took out the bottom of the heart. Exit is visible in the picture. He ran just 10 yards but fell over in a mass of deadfalls, and was a PITA to drag out.



I shot what my dad calls "Mr. Big" with my grandfather's 722 in 257 Roberts in 2019 with an 80 grain TTSX, also loaded to around 3200fps. Biggest whitetail I've ever seen where we hunt (VA and NY). Drilled him through the ribs at 75 yards. He dropped at the shot and wiggled for maybe 30 seconds. Estimated at 220# on the hoof. Thankfully he died in the road, and we could drive my dad's pickup right up to him. YMMV, but I'm a fan of lightweight monos, driven fast-ish. Not a gunwriter.

Thanks to Mr Barnsness I tried a 130 grain TTSX in my 308. Healing from posterior cervical fusion I can’t take much recoil. Loaded then to 3100 and went hunting. Smacked a 6’ bear at thirty yards. Bullet entered left lower jaw with the head turned hard right. Bear was uphill from me. Bullet exited through the atlas joint, entered the body about the base of the neck and exited just in front of the pelvis and was lost in the timber. Bear fell down and rolled towards me until he hit a log.
This spring I’m healing from a whiplash injury and may have to shoot the 130 again. Don’t know if you can keep one of those bullets in a Wyoming or Montana black bear.
And thank you Eileen for using that bullet. Sorry for your neck issues. Hope you are well.

Looks like those light for caliber monos just flat out kill stuff. It's a whole new lighter recoiling world out there boys. Jump aboard.



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I woukd not "assume" too much regarding the difference between the weights and brands of the mono metal bullets There CAN be quite a difference- especially given the wide range of velocies they can be driven in varios cartridges.

The two videos below are expansion tests on water jugs at 100 to 500 yards.They are done by a group of guys from Oregeon who have put a lot of effort into bullet expansion testing during the lsst few years.

Both both bullets were started at .308 velocities (3,100 to 3200) FPS, so your .300 Savage loads would produce initial expansion like those vids show at the 100 to 200 yard mark.

That Hornady 11Og CX seems to be constructed to expand at lower .300 Blackout velocity levels. The Barnes 130g TTSX looks to be a better penetrator at all velocieies with reliable exansion- when driven at 3,000 + from the rifle.

The good news with the Hornady 110g CX bullets is that you will not have to drive them at top speeds from your Savage to get good energy transfer /expansion.

The pics of the expanded bullets start the 4:50 mark on the Hornady 110g vid and at the 2:50 mark on the Barnes 130g video.


The Hornady 110g CX driven at 3,200 FPS muzzle velocity.


The Barnes 130g TTSX at 3,100+

Don't put too much stock into bullets fired into nothing but water. I've tested countless bullets over the years and can tell you that what happens with water versus what happens when the projectile meets flesh and bones is generally not one and the same.

With TAC, I run the 110 grain GMX at just over 3200 fps from a 20" bull-barreled .308 WCF. The wound channels in game indicates the bullet opens VERY quickly and to a VERY wide frontal area. On hogs, I've only noted one single instance when the 110 grain CX shed any petals, and that impact was a shoulder-to-shoulder shot, which featured not only a thick, mud-caked hide, fat, a shield that ran right at an inch thick on each side and the bones of a large, mature boar. Even so, it very nearly exited and was recovered between the shield and the hide on the opposite side. And for those who don't know, the shield on these boars has the consistency of hard rubber and can be tough on bullets.

Below is are photos of a Barnes 120 grain Tac-TX that had an impact velocity of app. 2800 fps. The petals had thinned, but they did not shear off.





The frontal diameter was beyond impressive:





This is a photo of a 110 grain GMX that was taken out of test medium. Impact speed was just a shade over 2800 fps.





Here's a 110 grain Hornady CX taken from a hog last summer. I don't have those notes in front of me but want to say the impact speed was in the 2300 fps range.





And while this isn't .30 cal, here's a light-for-caliber 95 grain TTSX that recovered from a large boar I shot about 10 days ago. MV was 2920, meaning the velocity at impact should have been in the 2550 fps range. This bullet was designed for the velocities of the 6.8 SPC and thus is a good match for my 20.5 inch Van Horn Contender barrel in .270x.225 Imp (aka .270 JDJ). The bullet hit on the front portion of the shoulder, penetrating the thick shield, breaking the bone, wrecking the lungs, passing through the edge of the opposite shoulder, breaking a rib and then lodging in the hide and very nearly exiting.

Impact speed should have been about 2550 fps. It lost a couple petals but still weighed 78.4 grains. The widest point measured .536”. Even with no CNS impact, the hog folded on the spot.

I asked a Barnes rep on the phone what the difference is between the construction of the TTSX vs the TAC-TX.

His answer was: "the color of the tip".

That "rep" obviously needs to get familiar with the company's products.

I agree! The 80 TTSX has worked very well on deer for me in a 257Bob. Ditto the 110TTSX in a 270. The 110TTSX has proven accurate in my 280. Gonna try that this fall!

Okay, what IS the difference in construction of the TAC-TX vs the TTSX?

I'll use the 110 and 120 grain Tac-TX in .30 caliber as examples. They were designed with .300 BO muzzle velocities in mind.

They have a more cavernous hollow point and are specially-annealed, allowing them to expand significantly even down to 1400 fps. You'll still see expansion as low as 1300 fps. Barnes also gave these a different geometry so that the BC doesn't suffer.

I can assure you that these Tac-TX bullets will expand at velocities much lower than what the comparable 110 grain TTSX will do -- and they will generally expand to a much wider frontal diameter given equal impact velocities.






Tac-TX vs TTSX at similar impact speeds: These are .30 cal Tac-TX and 6.5mm 100 grain Tipped TSX bullets. Somewhere I have a more appropriate .30 cal comparison photo, and if I locate it, I'll post it. But the results are quite similar.




Here's a 120 grain Tac-TX that had an impact speed of right at 2800 fps:

Thanks, Bobby. The 115 TAC-TX is reasonably accurate in my 6.5CM at about 2900fps. Sounds like it should be effective on bambi...

It's like when E. F. Hutton speaks....

I listen when Bobby, J.B. and others who've "been there, done that" speak.

I agree with what they're reporting. My experience is no where theirs, but I've killed stuff with mono's and they do work.

The 100 TTSX that J.B. mentioned is a killer. It's accurate, too. COAL is longer, gun has a long action.

I've posted this .257R load before. Gunner500 said it's a "little buzz saw" and he's right.

I've not used the 110 gr. TAC in my .308, but have some to try. Bobby posted some good stuff. When it comes to low light scopes and killing hogs, I defer to him.

There are other good mono's, Hammer, CEB and Lehigh to name a few.

I've had good luck with the 135 gr. Raptor by Cutting Edge Bullets in my .308. It frags and is very accurate.

DF

It will definitely do the job and is a good match for your 6.5CM. The 115 grain Tac-TX -- designed for Grendel speeds -- doesn't open as widely or to quite as low of a velocity as the 110 and 120 grain .30 cal offerings, but it still does very well. With a 6.5 Bullberry and a 6.5 BRM in my Contenders, I've used the 115s on several hogs, coyotes and a buck. The muzzle velocities ranged from 2585 to 2603 fps. The ranges were from just over 100 yards to app. 190. Performance was excellent in each instance.

I now have the 115s loaded in a 6.5 CM at 2872 fps.

I run the 110gr ttsx in a 300 Win Mag at 4100 fps. Shot a 350 lb black bear with one a few years ago. Texas heart shot running away, complete pass thru with the bullet exiting the bears mouth.

this has been a good read and nice pictures too ! i have never shot a bear with a rifle , my friends , family and myself have always just killed black bears with a bow most of us used Zwickey broadheads on our arrows and always had good blood trails. but this year because of my age of 70 now and a beat up body i plan on using a rifle with my hand loads for black bear probably load some 200 gr. FTX Hornady in my new to me rebore Ruger #1 35 Whelen . my reason for this is where i will be hunting in Minnesota in the N.W. by border area we have some very big black bears up there 400-600 lb. black bears we just don`t have as many bears . i feel i would rather smack a bigger black bear with a bigger grained bullet and i have a bunch of these 200 gr. FTX Hornady bullets i bought when bullet prices were much cheaper. good luck with what ever bullet you use,Pete53

This thread affirms what Groove Bullets out of South Africa was advocating 35 years ago.