Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Interest in 308 Subsonic, or Cat Sneeze Loads?

While playing with this 308 to start testing Blue Dot loads for it ( with SR 4759, 4198 and RL 7 also on the list), I also loaded up a few for a friend to try to get his feed back.

He also really liked the ones I loaded up with Trail Boss to produce a 50 to 75 yd "Cat Sneeze" load. While these are real good for close quarters, say under a 100 yds..My quandry is what bullet weights would you guys use if you had an interest in something like that?

Would 110 grain RN. V Maxes or HPs be a better choice, over say the 125 to 130 grain bullets available out there ( say particularly with the 30/30s bullet availability), or say the 150 FMJ and FN designs or RN? or the 170 grain FN bullets for the 30/30 once again...

what would do the most damage if you had to use something like that for a defensive or short range offensive load?..

I've even had some thoughts, that match bullets, such as the 155 Palma or 168 grain Match might be good for this application, as I can see them yawing when making contact, and actually doing quite a bit of internal damage, ala 223, but with much more desired effect...

So if there is an interest in this, speak up...

also open to what bullets you think would be the best choices for the job at hand...

I plan on following this up with my same applications with the 7/08, but I have to get the barrel mounted on the Savage Action I have, stored at a friends house who is currently out of town.

Try a 180-gr or 200-gr soft lead cast bullet.

I had good luck using Trail Boss with lead cast in the 170 to 180gr in my 7.62x39 and .308.The 30/06 was a crack like a .22 mag?Accuracy was much better in the small cases and better burning.I wish I could have a suppressor in this state....

110 grain Vmax's would interest me.

Anyhting that would vaporize that sneezing cat. Or the one that schitts in my wifes flower gardens

I personally would like data for a wide range of bullet weights, so that I could use whatever bullets I had left over from other projects.

My go-to bullet for this reduced stuff is the Berry's Plated 150 grain round shoulder.

I worked up a subsonic 308 load with 220gr Hornady RN over Unique. My 1/12 twist barrel didn't quite stabilize them at 1050 fps. 1/10 would probably get stability and better accuracy.





This load was still about 2 moa accurate at 100 yards, despite instability. Probably go into full tumble on contact. You can see they were wobbling into the target.

I've got a friend that want's to "do in" some beavers quietly so as not to get the fur loving neighbors riled up. I'd loan out my 308 and handload for it but don't want to monkey with fillers. I have to remember that shooting (usually downward) towards water will get pistol powders moving away from the primer. 110 varmit bullets would probably be perfect. Would love to hear some advice.

Man, this would be so cool. How about the 240 SMK? The heavier the better in this application right?


edited to add

I think subsonic loads with heavy bullets in .223 would be cool too.

Subsonic 240s need 1/8 twist. That's standard fare in 300 Whisper builds.

Here's a good reference on "cat's sneeze" (minimal) loads if you haven't come across it already:

Gunwriters on the Web

Scroll almost to the bottom to "How to handload subsonic rifle cartridges (and survive)." It's a lot to go through but worthwhile.

Near the top of the page you'll find "G.O.W. Kickback: Questions and Answers." There's 19 pages(!) of stuff to wade through but worth it. Covers problems with detonation on reduced loads, .308 specific loading somewhere in there, and all kinds of other relevant stuff. More interest in subsonic loads in Europe for use with suppressors.

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Also a little more .308 info in the "Ed's Essays" section as well as the story on Ed's Red.

Get PMC here at the 'fire to chime in. He's been running a suppressed .308 for a few years, and a .300 Whisper even longer.

This is an interesting topic. There were a few articles written about this, back in the 1960's and 1970's. But, I don't have them anymore.

110gr Vmax would make for a sweet (but effective!) short range load...

I've used 'Plinker' 110s, 110 gr. plated RN 30 Carbine bullets, FN lead 32-20 bullets, 150 FMJ, 110 V-max and others in these types of loads. It's an easy way to do some impromptu SG hunting while out with a BG rifle. The 30 carbine and 32-20 bullets are a really cheap but effective way to go.

I've tried Red Dot, Blue Dot, Clays, Unique, Trail Boss and probably some others. They all work well enough. Trail Boss seems to leave a lot of residue in the bore when using 6 or so grains.

BTW - from conversations with PMC about subsonic loads before, expanding bullets don't at subsonic velocities.

Now, soft-cast, or zone-hardened/cast bullets are a different story.

So the Vmax wont expand?

Use 170 or 180's and trailboss. Round nose or Flat nose it don't matter. At those velocity's expansion is always a problem. I've probably shot as many as anybody and have killed a passleload of deer with subsonics.

Pmc

Also I don't run soft lead bullets mainly because I don't want to risk any leading in my suppressor, so I can't speak to them.

TO run 240 SMK's you need a 1 in 8 twist. That bullet will not expand just tumble. Here's a pic of a 240 SMK Shot into wet phone books @ 100 yds. From a 300 Whisper, as recovered.


Pmc

PMC, I might have missed it.....not sure but are you saying that the Vmax's will not expand at subsonic velocities?
Thanks