Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Which domestic dog breed can hold its own against Wolves?

One on one there are probably a few breeds that would hold their own, none better than the Anatolian Shepherd. Wolves, leopards, and bears are what it guards the herd against, as opposed to some herding breeds it is a guard breed. Historians believe this breed may be 6000 years old so it's instinct is very strong.It is close in size to a wolf 100-160 pounds.Multiple wolves against
one dog, dog is dinner. The one breed that I would never want to get sideways with is the Dogo Argentino, see Accurate reloading post about the Dogo killing the Puma. When we hunted Black Bear in Quebec, they kept a German Shepherd Dog (not German Shepherd)
to keep the wolves away, our outfitter told us the wolves didn't want anything to do with him.Just my opinion.

The Anatolin shepard looks impressive also.

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The Caucasian is also an ancient dog breed.

Some more info I found on the caucasian.

Ovcharka�a.k.a Caucasian Shepherds�are used to hide amongst sheep in herds. A pack of wolves (3 or 4) will attack the sheep, not noticing the Ovcharka, and the dog may fight a couple wolves at the same time.[citation needed] The fur is several layers and thick making the wolves teeth unable to reach its flesh.[citation needed] They are loyal to their duty in protecting their flock and family and will stand by and defend through any circumstance. Unfortunately they are often misrepresented as being dangerous and violent, when in fact they are not unless there is a threat or a perceived threat to family and home.

Powerful and massive, the Caucasian Ovcharka can prove to be a difficult breed for an inexperienced owner, because it respects and obeys only those dominant members of the family that it deems superior to itself. They are generally good with children, but will not see them as their masters. The dog develops a strong bond with its owner but will rarely be completely submissive and blindly follow orders, for this is truly a thinking dog which relies primarily on its own instincts, sometimes even disregarding its master's directions in certain situations. A breed with a very quick reaction time and lightning-fast protection reflexes, it has even been unfairly described by some as somewhat of a "loose cannon". With proper care, handling and training, this is a well-behaved and obedient family companion.

Take care to ask the owner before touching as these dogs are not 'big teddy bears' to be run up to and cuddled. A well behaved Ovcharka will merely take a step back and avert their head; this is a good behavior as these dogs are not Golden Retrievers in their temperament towards everyone.

Okay, I do not have wolves near here, but we have lots of Coyotes, stray Rotts/Pits (bad economy, people turn em loose)bear, etc.

I have a flock of sheep, and have 3 Anatolian Sheps here that guard and live with them.

If you have never seen these dogs work with their flock, and together, then you will understand that against a pack of wolves, you can not send a pack of pitbulls, you must send a pack of LGDs (Livestock Guardian Dogs).

These dogs were bred and designed for this fight. Most LGDs will avoid the fight and try to use every way possible to move the predator/intruder from his 'zone'. They have 2 areas usually, the Outer perimeter, which they usually walk once or twice a day, and the inner. Anything approaching the outer, will get a bark, but nothing serious. Anything getting inside it will get their full attention, but once in the final zone, the Anatolians cease their barking, and the fight is on.

They have killed countless coyotes, and I know coyotes are not a big deal, honestly, but they literally pick them up, and shake them really hard once, and break their backs. Then they usually eat them (saves on dog food bill).

Mine have also killed pitbulls. Pitbulls are some hard headed fools, you know that? There was 5 of these strays (They had that look about them) and 2 were pits, and the other 3 were some mutt looking things, but we heard our LGDs barking like crazy, which meant something was getting to close, and we looked, and saw the pack. One of the pitbulls put its head under out electric fence wire, and our biggest male jerked him under the fence and killed him in less than 2 seconds. Pitbulls do not realize the danger of our LGDs, and only see the sheep, and if they are dumb enough to try to come under the fence, they get 1) shocked 2) killed. It is no contest, ever.

Anatolians are very powerful animals, extremely fast, and work in packs very well, something pitbulls do not do.

Generally, one or two will engage in the front of the threat, and the other circles...just like a wolf, right?

I have never suffered a sheep or lamb loss with my dogs on watch, and we live in Bear country. Strays, coyotes, foxes, Bears. I know we have some bears who come down to our farm, we see the tracks, but they never go deep into the pastures, and I think it has a lot to do with the dogs.

I am not DOUBTING that a pitbull would kill a wolf or any other dog in a setting favorable to it, like a pit? However, I also dont think a pitbull would fair that well in a fight in another dogs setting, or for that matter a wolf.

1 on 1 sure, but Wolves hardly ever operate like that, and I dont think 4 pits would take out 4 wolves either. I would put my 3 LGDs vs those 4 wolves first, and I am not sure my 3 would come out on top, but they were bred for over 5000 years for doing this job, so I am going to assume they would have a better chance than those 4 pits would.

Tough defending against an animal that kills to survive when the defender has had that bred out of him/her. There are some dogs I would want at my side and probably a presa canario(1/2dozen maybe against 1 wolf ) or a filo brasileiro or a few anatolians but not much else I think could stand up to a pack of those animals. In any event hopefully they can raise enough ruckus to get a human or 3 in the fray and hopefully with loaded weapons.

The most impressive account I remember reading about was by a British author who was camping with friends in the African bush (Kenya) in the 1950's. One of the locals had a female English bull terrier with him ( they were popular as hunting dogs over there back then) when it started barking and growling at something in the darkness just outside the light of the campfire.

Before the owner could grab the dog, it had darted off into the darkness..Within in a minute or two, a terrible terrible fight broke out and the guys were convinced the dog was being set on my a leopard or similar. After several minutes all went quiet untill the heard a noise of something pushing through the bush.

It turns out it was the bull terrier and it was dragging the body of a dead hyena! The dog was in pretty poor shape itself, but did survive, but to kill an adult hyena in a one to one fight was a terrific and completely unexpected accomplishment.

Having said that, back then the English Bull terriers still have fighting blood in them and weren't the darlings of the show ring they are today..

15 "bred to fight" pits vs a pack of 8 wolves. Who wins? Obviously the wolves will be more familiar with pack mentality but let's assume the pits have been stray for 3 months, have gained pack mentality and are well nourished.

3 months does not cancel out 100,000 years, sorry.

I have read a few reports of 3 Anatolians fighting off packs of 5 wolves in Turkey, and suffering no losses, and killing 1 or 2 wolves.

Pit Bulls, out in the open, which is NOT their strong point, would not have an advantage. LGDs would, but again, its all about which setting we are talking about, and since this is a hunting forum, I was assuming that it was out in the open.

The turks use their LGDs in groups of 3. Of course bigger flocks demand bigger packs of dogs, but for a flock of 100 they like to use 3, and these dogs are alone with the sheep for 6 months at a time usually, and come back with very few losses, and new lambs. That is not an accident.

The dogs will eat dead sheep/lambs, eat up all afterbirth, and work so good as a team. Protecting their sheep are their entire life, and they are very good at it, and if they were not good at it, I do not think people allover the world would use them for such.

My dogs take shifts watching. It really is amazing. All three are out there, and have full access to whatever area they are in. 1 will be on duty during the day, while 2 are in the shelter or under a tree sleeping. As the sheep move, the one moves with them, and if he starts to drift to far from the other 2, he/she will bark, and the other 2 will get up, and move with them again.

They do herd, but they herd for their benefit, in order to move the sheep to a place that is easier to defend. I got no shot of ever teaching them to herd for me, because they have such low prey drive (unlike a border collie, which has high), and are highly independent thinkers.

If a threat appears, 1 dog will zig and zag back and forth to move the sheet to a corner area of the pasture, and then stand in front of them. The dog knows the threat will have a harder time getting to the sheep that way. While one or 2 two dogs are herding the sheep, the others are out further watching the threat. Once the sheep are considered 'safe' the three will then advance together on the threat, that is NOT something a pitbull can learn in 3 months. Pitbulls are trained to fight as individuals, and that is how they will fight. It would be like Gladiator fighters vs Roman Cohorts. 1 on 1, the gladiator wins, but 10 on 10, the Cohorts would probably win, as they train and operate as a unit.

There is a family near me who owns about 20 sheep, but once had over 100, and lost them to stray dogs. Dogs like to chase them for fun, but the sheep have heart attacks from the fear.

I have never suffered a loss, ever. I have seen my dogs in action, and you would need wolves for sure to have a chance to get one of my sheep, and they better be on their A game, or else they will get turned into dinner. Our local Coyote population is well aware of our dogs, but every year 1 or 2 gets stupid enough to try to get a meal of mutton. These coyotes live no less than 2 miles from me, and 99% of the time, steer well clear of our farm.

So, in the Wolf's world, use LGDs to fight them, that is what they are for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsFmPnRSRT4

This is in serbian, but the dog was hardly 'losing' in this fight. That is a small LGD also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55vyYa1_1Uk

LGds offing 2 more wolves in this video.

LGDs can kill a wolf, will kill a wolf if forced to, and have on may occasions done so. They have been doing their job for 5000 years, if they could not do the job, then I think they would have been fired a long time ago.

Those of you who say a Domestic Dog can not kill a wolf obviously no little about LGDs, or refuse to accept any evidence why they are out there doing the job.

Like to have a few of those!

I did nto see this post, but yes, these dogs are some bad bad dogs. They ahve been bred for the wolf figh, and their body is built for it (with thick skin, and fur the way itis). They are such great LGDs, but not good for all parts of the world. I live in a pretty hot area, with cool winters, so they are not an option, but would be my first choice for LGD, Anatolians my 2nd. I went with my 2nd cuz of the tempature issue here, and will nto ever regret it, but the Ovcharkas are ruthless with wolves, and have plenty of confirmed one on one kills in Russia.

If you are looking for a dog to HUNT wolves, LGDs are not that dog. If you want to find a dog to protect your life vs one, LGDs will easily fill that role.

As much as I don't doubt that LGDs/Anatolians can and do kill wolves, I would make two comments..

1) The first video clip is undoubtedly stagged, and those dogs are not fighting for real...

2) The North American Timberwolf of Canada and Alaska will typically weigh significantly more than its European cousins, especially those strains from the more central and southern parts of Europe, such as Turkey, Greece and Spain ect..

Interesting thread here. We have people discussing fighting dogs against wolves, other dogs etc, and no one protesting. we all love a good fight right? Everyones dogs are super hardcore I am sure, but none of them will beat a real gamebred APBT in a fight, period. And of course if you could get one wolf to fight one, I'd give up 80lbs, that is to say let a 40lb bulldog get it on with a 120 lb wolf without a second thought. Good luck finding one wolf to fight your dog though. I find the "pack of pitbulls" stories highly amusing too. Calling those dogs pitbulls is like calling Irish Wolfhounds "wolfhounds" what you have in both cases is some kind of dog that looks the part, but what makes bulldogs, wolfhounds, LGD's, huskies, etc (basically any dog with a J-O-B job) isn't looks, its what's on the inside. Keep your dogs away from wolves if you want to keep them, and don't let the USHS get wind of this thread or they'll shut down the board and pay your neighbors 5000 dollars apiece to turn you in for "intent" to fight dogs against something.

Wolves from Russia are not small though, and the 2nd clip is legit. I looked at the first one again, I agree, looks staged, and the wolf is smallish, but the dogs there were bred to match the size of the predators. LGDs in Russia are built for big wolves and bears.

LGDs, if they are lucky, the fact that they are there in force, prevents them ever getting the oppurtunity to fight that which they wre bred to fight.

I only responded to this thread for the fact that, out in the open/wild(s) I would NOT put any amount of Pit bulls vs wolves. They would lose, and lose badly. I would however put some $$ that LGDs can hold their own if they are from good lines, and are actually LGDs. An Anatolian who is a house dog may have the instinct, but also has a soft life. My dogs life is not exactly soft. They work 24/7/365. and the ones in Turkey are even worked harder. They are put out in the mountains for 3-12 months at a time without any humans around. These dogs are semi-feral, as they hunt for themselves, and make their own decisions out there. That requires a certain amount of intelligence, something pitbulls lack a lot, and something I think that would cost the pit bull its life in the a world the wolf is used to

The people who put those poor Great Pyrs out there have to remember, that the wolves in North America are much bigger than they are in Spain/france, where the Great Pyr was bred to fight them. You better come with more than 2 LGDs if you live out west, or the results will be bad.

I live in the Smokey Mountains. No wolves, just an over abundance of smart Coyotes and Black bears, and strays...lots of those. Because of my location, I can have 3 Anatolians, and suffer no losses. I also have many small pastures, not one big one, which lets the dogs patrol easier, and react to problems much faster. Anatolians are VERY fast, can hit 35 MPH sustained (They run with me nex to my ATV sometimes, only way I know that). They also are very strong. You can see exactly why they are used for the job they do, but they will not win any obedience trials, because they are bred to be independent thinkers, and make decisions without a human there.

However, if I lived in Idaho, I would come with no less than 6 LGDs. I can stock 5 sheep per acre here. There, you need 10 acres per 5 sheep, or more. There is to much room to cover for 2 LGDs, and if you have that big fo a flock (he lost many lambs if I recall), then you already are setting your dogs up for failure. the Great Pyr did not fail, the owner of the sheep failed. His dogs were toast before the fight started.

My pastures are 1-3 acres each. My dogs EASILY handle that, and sometimes will only have 1 on duty while the others sleep (not sure how they figure out who does what, but they always have ONE out there). At night, even with the sheep locked up, they are very active on the perimeter.

So, again, LGDs are the dogs I am betting on. I have had Rottweilers, and my Rotts got nothing on my LGDs. They are not even on the same playing field with their pack mentality. My rotts would be lunch in 2 seconds flat, I know that to be true. No matter how big and bad people think they are, they are still just Rottweilers, not wolves. LGDs are dogs, but they are dogs bred to match that wolf.

he is right, last thing I want is my LGDs going toe to toe with a wolf (or a bear). However, in the wofl setting, go ahead, get your pitbulls, and send them after the wolves, and bring the body bags, cuz I am sure the pitbulls would be dead.

If the fight is in a pit, then sure, I put my $$$ on the Pitbull. Its all about the setting the fight would be in. Wovles dont fight alone usually, so its silly to put a 1v1 fight up there. As the nubmers of the packs grow, so do the odds vs the pitbulls winning.

In eastern Oregon we have a healthy supply of predators to contend with and now we can add wolves to the list. We've been looking for just what you good folks have been describing in the Anatolians and �arplaninac.

Are these two breeds typically trustworthy around small children?

I know little about Sarps, but every other lGD breed I am aware of thinks of the humans who own them as part of their flock, and guards them the same way, so I would assume that Sarps are like that.

All LGDs are also known for their love of babies of all species. There is countless stories of Great Pyr keeping baby lambs/goats warm cuz the mothers abandoned them, and the owner finding dog and baby cuddled together.

All my dogs LOVE my son, and treat him very delicate, but when he or my older kids are out, they watch them very close. My kids go into the pasture a lot, and play with the sheep/goats, and the dogs do not ever bother, because they think of the family as part of their flock, so there is nothing to worry about.

They seem to think ALL kids are theirs...lol.

Once in my early twenties,I went on a deer hunt in west Texas.
The owner had a big ole Great Pyrenes that scared me to death when I first got to the place.

The rancher had bought him when his kids were smaller to watch them as well as his sheep and goats.

My first evening there,I saw a big buck right behind the barn and planted myself there for a week to hunt him.

The rancher introduced me to the dog and the big old dog 'adopted' me. He would sit by my side for hours as I waited for the buck.

I would try to run him off,but he would not leave. It actually a pretty secure feeling knowing a 175 pound dog has 'got your back'.

This dog had killed a pile of coyotes and kept lions from taking a single sheep or goat on the place for a long time.

He absolutely lived to watch and guard animals and people with a singleness of purpose that I have not seen in more modern breeds.

When my lab hangs out with me,it's because he likes my company and he needs me. That big Pyrenes was different,he hung out with me because he wanted to protect,you can just feel it when you're with them

we had a meter reader here in town kill two pits with his bare hands when they jumped a fence and attacked him.so if two pits can't take down a 175# man that keeps his witts about him when attacked. i doubt they would fare well against a wolf

Oscar Meyer, my wiener dog could hold his own, at least for the first couple barks. LOL

Seriously, I don't think any domestic dog could handle a full-grown wolf. If the dog happened to be successful, it would not be pretty and probably come with a high vet bill. I don't think its humane to purposely put a domestic dog in that situation.

Lou