Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Interesting hunting/sniper rifle with historical significance

I had heard they were Merwyn & Hulberts, but am no particular scholar on the event.

The forensic mapping of the site, with Metal Detectors and GPS Data entry is certainly worth a look,....

Regarding this fine Manlicher rifle's performance history, I'm a student of the "Missing Decimal Point Theory",.....Can't buy the un-punctuated ranges called out ONCE, much less TWICE,...no way.

GTC

Interesting turn of events.

First and formost, what a great family, thanks to the family for their ( her) kin's service.

I suspect the plaque must be some form of an inside Joke, gun looks way to "special" to be a sniper rifle,would love to hear any other Non-US made sniper rifle stories of their use, and the scope seems about 10 years newer than 1952.


I would love for the plaque to be true, but suspect otherwise.

Allen

Interesting thread. Billy Dixon took the hostile off the horse at a Army surveyed 1538 yds with a Big fifty sharps. This has been questioned many times over the years and is still questioned today, he admitted in a book by his wife that it was a scratch shot and just luck. It is well known fact that he was a noted marksman and later a Medal of Honor winner from action in"The Buffalo Wallow fight". As a matter of interest to all those who doubt LR possibilities, 2-3 years back at the Billy Dixon shoot in Utah a Black Powder event celebrating the Dixon shot.They shoot at a metal silhouette of a hostile on a horse (full size) at a surveyed 1538 yds to replicate Dixon's famous shot. Jim Terry of Rawlins, Wyo. left the crowd speechless after going 5/6 with a 45-110 using BP and vernier tang sight. Going 1900+ yds with an 30-06 would be tough to do without the help of a 30 MOA rail base but there are other possibilities too. Magnum Man

That leaves me speechless too (almost).

Now matter how old that crap gets, I still laugh.

Not knowing how the rifle got outside the family? Where there are teenagers, stuff like this will happen.

My Browning Hi-Power Canadian Ingleise(sp) has the ladder sites that allow me to shoot 500metres IIRC. 9mm. I haven't actually tried it yet, but why would it be on there if it ain't so? :]

It'll probably get a bullet somewhere around 500 meters. Somewhere.

Hard for me to believe too, but I always heard that the better you were the luckier you got.

Regardless of who gets the rifle , I think the decimal points should be inserted in both ranges.The Captain's memory doesn't deserve the ridicule prompted by the obvious error on the part of the engraver.

The engraving lists the yards they were killed at, not the miles. I don't think they gave the engraver instructions to engrave 193.8 yards, it was intentionally 1938. You may not believe it, but that's what it's meant to be.

Do you have inside information you haven't divulged?

Loggah, have you found any more info from the action report you can share (re: big drift), and more importantly have you taken the rifle to the range yet?

curdog, no.. but a decimal point into yards? Making them both under 200 yard shots? Not believable to me that a plaque was made with 3 witnesses listed for 2 confirmed kills under 200 yards.

The owner had the rifle for decades, if it had needed to be corrected it would have been.

I don't know if you've read the whole thread and I'm not going to repost everything I've offered in support of the missing decimal point idea.Just these two things should suffice:

Have you ever seen a survey report that rounded off to yards?

Would a career Army Officer make a fantastic claim listing his superior officers as witnesses ?

A threat to four High Value targets was neutralized because a Captain had the foresight to equip himself with a superior firearm.In gratitude , one or all of the "Targets" had this plaque made at some later time.

Anytime you have a story where the "words don't fit the picture" and you can make one minor change and have everything make sense,that "change" is very probably correcting an error in the story.

To put it another way , the simplest explanation that takes account of all the facts is probably the correct one.

I've read the thread, and the thought of somebody changing that plaque after 50 years to match what they THINK is right disturbs me greatly.

Go here and read what his men thought of him:

http://www.koreanwar.org/html/units/7ir.htm?PageNum_Looking=2

1) Comments: I have been looking for anyone knowing Capt. Francis T Aylward(The Screaming Eagle-WWII combat comission Veteran).
The best commanding Officer you could ever serve under. Korea 1950-52

2) Comments: Looking for anyone in the 3rd Battalion who may have served under Capt. Francis T Aylward(The Screaming Eagle). He left the Mortar Co. for a line Co. I believe it was I co. Best commanding Officer anyone would be proud to have serverd under(unless you were a screw-up).
I'd appreciate any input you may have.

3) Comments: Captain Aylward is not in the 3rd Div. book Korea 1950-1953. He was a WWII combat comm. and had the Nickname "Screaming Eagle". Best officer I ever served under. If anyone has any info on him I would appreciate hearing from you.


Now tell me that man intentionally left incorrect data on the plaque. Whether it's true or false, that plaque needs to be left alone.

Jmho.

Rory, Thats the way i read it to, i assume the guy in the engineering co.measured the ranges,just make sense, I still haven't got an answer from the family to any of my p.m.s, cant quite figure that out !!!!! Don

Guys, getting copies of an AAR from the Korean war is difficult as it is. Them finding one specific incident in the archives is a long shot but it is being looked into.

That's exactly the kind of officer I assumed him to be.And exactly why he should not be made the subject of ridicule with no chance to defend himself.

We don't know that the plaque was ever seen by him.It really looks like it was made to be placed under the rifle in a display case , and was inserted into the stock later.The mistake with regard to the scope is evidence that the Captain was not the originator of the plaque data.

I can believe that TWO shots of legendary status were witnessed by THREE fellow officers and the details were kept quiet for 60 years.Or;

I can believe the Captain betrayed his own SELF and became a fraud and in the process betrayed his superior officers by making them witnesses of a non-event.Or;

I can accept that a SECOND mistake - the scope being the first- was made in recording the event onto a plaque.

The addition of the decimal points reconciles ALL the reasonable objections to the validity of the witnesses "testimony".It also makes credible the statement that the distances were SURVEYED.

Leave the plaque alone. To change it would debase a significant artifact. I frankly can easily believe that the shots were made at the distances stated.

Some of you have no frame of reference for what is possible, even doable on a regular basis with a good rifle at long range by a man who knows how to use it. Here is a case in point. As has already been pointed out, Jim Terry went 5 out of 6 on a hostile target at 1538 yards with a 45-110 Sharps a while back. A couple of you had trouble believing or accepting that, thinking it was luck.

Here is your reality check. I know Jim Terry, have known him for years, and have competed with him many times. Yes, he hit the hostile 5/6. But there were several other shooters at that match that went four out of six, and didn't win. While Jimbo is one of the better shots at that game, there are a lot of other guys that did not find what he did to be astounding. They do the same thing on a regular basis.

You may be surprised to find out that there is an annual match held on the Wasserburger Ranch outside of Lusk, Wyoming where the targets are set at a surveyed mile from the firing line. The match is shot with buffalo rifles, mainly Sharps, using IRON SIGHTS. Jim Terry and a number of other guys not only shoot there, they regularly shoot and hit at distances that many of you can't comprehend.

My hunting rifle is a Sharps, equipped with open iron sights. No scope. I PRACTICE on a regular basis by shooting gallon milk jugs filled with water at 400 and 500 yards several times a week. A man that truly knows his rifle and knows how to use it can successfully engage targets at ranges others do not believe, and even after they see it they will call it a lucky shot. It's not always luck, trust me.