Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 257 bob vs the 257+p

Well, I finally filled the urge and bought a 257 Roberts today(actually did a little trading). I could not be more happy and catch this have not evenicked it up yet. Here is the question, what can I expect to gain if using the +p brass? This is a new gun and this is a viable option. I have read this brass is a little thick and actuallty reduces powder capacity. I know I may catch some flack on this but the rifle I bought sports a 20" barrel but from where I am and hunt makes sense. I am trying to maximize the cartridge and want to know all I can.

Thanks in advance?

I have a 257 AI and I love it. It looks like you get about 200fps over the Bob. I've taken everything from rattlesnakes to deer with mine.

ChipM �

When I got my .257 Roberts a year and a half ago it was a like new and barely fired 1989 Ruger with a 22� tube. The first thing I did was consider getting it reamed to an AI configuration. After some thought I decided to play with +P loads first and see what it would do. The results have caused me to lave it �as is�.

The SAAMI MAP standard for the .257 Roberts is 45,000 CUP and for the .257 Roberts +P it is 50,000 CUP. The difference allows the handloader to achieve a significant increase in velocity. Since I have no way to measure CUP or PSI my loads have been developed the same way I have developed them for my in 7mm Mag and .300 Win Mag, also both Ruger rifles. Quite frankly, my loads may exceed the SAAMI +P standard, but I believe them to be safe in my rifle.

Using WW +P brass and CCI 250 primers:

75g V-MAX, H4895, COL 2.803�, 3609fps
115g TSX, H4831SC, COL 2.803�, 2958fps
115g TSX, H4350, COL 2.803�, 3013fps
120g Partition, H4831SC, COL 2.896�, 2904fps
120g Grand Slam, COL 2.821�, 2899fps.

I�m currently working up a 120g A-Frame load with H4831SC but no results yet. I think this or the Trophy Bonded may end up being a hunting load that I could take for mule deer and use on elk if the opportunity presented itself.

If you really wanted or needed a high velocity .25, you would have bought a much larger 24-inch barrelled .25-06. Appreciate the .257 Roberts for what it is.

Start with the standard Remington 117-gr RN for deer.
Your carbine will be a 250 yard killer with it.

Then try the 117--gr Hornady ammo with the SST or BTSP.

Want see what a hot load does? Try the Light Magnum.

I would do all this before any handloading.
You don't need to spend big $$$ on premium bullets, but the 115-gr Nosler Partition over a normal load of 4350 will work in about any .257.

Lee, I'm a handloader so It doesn't make much differnce what case I load for but I wrote off the 25-06 a lond time ago as a less effictive .270. I see the .257, Both versions, as filling a spot just above the 6mm's.....Sincerely, Essex

Thanks guys for the info. CH, thanks for the load info but as for now I may just see what the normal loads can do. Lee, you are right as I could have gone to a 257 WM and maxed out. The 257 has just caught my attention and I have already ordered dies and going to the gun shop tomorrow for brass and heads.

Well I have everything and Lee I'm starting with the Hornady 117 BTSP..I saw the 117 RN on the shelf nut really have no experience using these in this type of rifle..Have you taken much game with this bullet and if so, how was the performance?

Chip: the 117gr Hornady RN amazes me. I used it for decades in 257AI's and 25/06's for short range shots. It was always incredibly accurate. And it always seemed to drop deer in their tracks. The only one I ever recovered looked like a Hornady ad. I had assumed that it was a pretty tough bullet because Weatherby loaded it in their 257 Mag. Then about a year ago I called the Hornaday help line and they told me that the bullet was designed for the 25-35!

EssexCounty, I shoot the 250-3000, 257 bob, 257 imp and the 25-06. as much as I love the 257 cal, my 25-06 has become and all time favorite. the only one in the group I have no use for is the 257 imp, if I need a fast 25, the 25-06 gets the nod. I had the 257 weatherby ( a model 70 with a 26" shilen tube) but sold it as I could not figure out where it fell in line with the others. it was kinda like a 270 with a lots more muss and fuss.

Read the loading manual. If +P brass was used, it should say so. If the loads are +P pressure, it should say so.
+P or not, as soon as you exceed the listed velocity (all handloaders need a chronograph, even if it's a cheap one), you are entering unknown territory. If you seat the bullets near the rifling, and reduce freebore, you will likely reach the listed velocity before you reach the maximim listed powder charge.

Lee24 �

I think I understand where you are coming from, but I don�t agree. My 22� .257 Roberts fills a hole that no rifle with a 24� or 26� tube could fill.

On one hand you suggest that the reader should �Appreciate the .257 Roberts for what it is.� and suggest that the reader should try Remington ammo with a listed muzzle velocity of 2650fps. Then you turn around and recommend that the reader should try Hornady Light Magnum ammo (the 117g SST) which is listed at 2940fps.

I would certainly not try to make my .257 Roberts into a .257 Weatherby. But by the same token I am not about to artificially limit it to some level of performance below what it is capable of, any more than I would artificially limit some other cartridge. When it comes to bullet selection I would much prefer to hunt with a 120g Speer Grand Slam or Nosler Partition or a 115g Barnes TSX than a Hornady SST and am a bit confused at how handloading these bullets to 2900fps (or 3000fps for the TSX) fails to �Appreciate the .257 Roberts for what it is� while the factory loaded SST @ 2950fps does?

You are correct that a person doesn�t need to spend �big $$$ on premium bullets� for the .257 Roberts, particularly at standard Roberts velocities. But by the same token any time I push a bullet over about 2800fps I start looking hard at bullet construction. IMHO the Speer Grand Slam, Nosler Partition and Accubond and Hornady InterBond are all better bullets than the 117g SST and all are reasonably priced � certainly not in the �big $$$� category. Barnes TSX, Speer Trophy Bonded and Swift A-Frame bullets are also better bullets but are definitely more expensive.

I�ll continue to shoot less expensive bullets for most of my practice, but when it comes to hunting I�ll use the bullets I feel are best suited to the task. A couple years ago I took an elk and a deer with my .45-70 using bullets that cost me $1 each. Several people felt I was wasting money using such �spendy� bullets when a plain Hornady 350g bullet would have worked. I put an insurance shot into the buck (completely unnecessary as it turns out) so I used a total of 3 bullets. Later I calculated that if I had followed the advice to use the Hornady bullet I would have saved a total of $2.22 for the hunting trip. With savings like that, and after many years of hunting, I might be able to retire 10 seconds earlier. Or maybe, in only two or three years, I might save enough to spring for a cheap glass of wine with my dinner?

For what its worth, a couple of folks thought I was doing wrong by pushing the .45-70 to its limits for the Marlin 1895 rifles instead of limiting it to the 28,000 CUP SAAMI limits for the old �trapdoor� Springfields. They didn�t feel I as appreciating the .45-70 for what it was�

Here�s some current prices for factory .257 Roberts ammo, per box, from Midwayusa.com:

$15.99 Remington Express Ammunition 257 Roberts 117 Grain Soft Point Core-Lokt (2650fps claimed)
$16.89 Hornady Custom Ammunition 257 Roberts 117 Grain Boat Tail Spire Point (2780fps claimed)
$18.49 Winchester Super-X Ammunition 257 Roberts +P 117 Grain Power-Point (2780fps claimed)
$20.89 Federal Premium Vital-Shok Ammunition 257 Roberts +P 120 Grain Nosler (2807fps chrono�d)
$22.99 Hornady Light Magnum Ammunition 257 Roberts 117 Grain Super Shock Tip (2940fps claimed)

Here�s the cost of my �big $$$� handloads, per box, using current midwayusa.com bullet prices:

$ 8.59 Speer 120g Grand Slam (2899fps chrono�d)
$ 9.15 Nosler 120g Partition (2904fps chrono�d)
$11.46 Barnes 115g TSX (2958fps w/ H4831SC, 3013fps w/ H4350, both chrono�d)
$16.55 Swift 120g A-Frame (circa 2900fps expected) (development loads built but not fired)

Guess my �big $$$� handloads aren�t so expensive after all.

Since I don�t have chrono results for the A-Frames yet, let�s use the 3013fps 115g Barnes TSX. Zeroed for Maximum point Blank Range for a 6� diameter target, the bullet rises to a maximum of 3.0� high at 133 yards, is zeroed at 258 yards and drops to 3.0� low at 304 yards. It delivers 1500 foot-pounds, a figure often cited as suitable for elk, to 366 yards and 1000 foot-pounds, a number often cited for deer, to 679 yards � well beyond any shot I would ever take. Or I could give up that performance and save � no, wait, the least expensive factory loads would cost 40% more than my �big $$$� TSX loads. Go figure.

Coyote,

Thanks for all the info as I truely respect your opinions here and over at Marlinowners. I bought the 117 Hornady Interlocks as I have had good success with them as has a good friend of mine. After shooting these and breaking the gun in a bit I will start working up some 120 grandslams as I think its a hell of a bullet for the money along with the 115 or 120 Nosler Partition which have also been good to me. I'm with you on the reloading aspect as right know I'm in about $50 after buying the dies, brass and heads.

I know originally you suggested the 22" tube to me but I have to tell you the Ruger UL is probably one of the prettiest wood stocked guns I've seen in awhile and here in New England in the dense mountains and cedar swaps will pay off and I figure if I come out to a powerline or clearcut can still reach out to 250 yds.

Coyote Hunter

Perhaps I was too brief and failed to make my point, which is that before cooking up a bunch of handloads, randomly choosing bullets, to try some of the standard and hot factory loads with some of those bullets to see how they shoot in your .257.

A. You should find one that works and will get you hunting now, like Rem 117-gr RN or Hornady Custom Interlock.

B. You will probably find another that excites you and is much cheaper to handload and cook up an even better load (like the 115-gr Partition or the SST). I wouldn't use the SST at nearly 3,000 fps on close game, because I use the SST for downrange velocity, 250+ yards.

The .257 is very versatile cartridge. Most rifles shoot the 75-gr very well. My idea of a perfect .257 Roberts is a 6.5 lb with 21 to 22 inch barrel and iron sights or a light 4x scope, shooting a 117-gr SPT at 2750 fps.