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YOU and TAK assert that PVC's are evidence of an abnormal pathway in the heart Twist, twist, twist.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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No as a former medical professional, I'm using the term "normal" as applied by the American Heart Association. Your argument on this matter should be with them, 'cause apparently you know more about cardiology than they do. The American Heart Association may well on occasion use the demographic sense of the word normal (such as when discussing phenomena frequencies within populations), but when speaking of the physiological function of a somatic system or structure, that's not the correct sense in which to use the word. PS When using the word with regard to the latter, it's correctly in the sense of design function, i.e., is this how the system/structure in question is meant to function?
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Campfire Ranger
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I must say that, based on the cheap tactics he's been pulling lately, I've lost a great deal of respect for Kevin. YOU and TAK assert that PVC's are evidence of an abnormal pathway in the heart; that's just patently wrong. Now with TAK I'm having a little fun at his expense because he's a POS who's always FOS...so easy target. I have not denigrated you in the least bit; I have respect for you. But in this instance, you're just wrong Hawk. And I'm starting to lose respect because you don't seem to be man enough to just admit that your wrong. Now you've said several factual things, but the main point you made; you're just wrong on. Me, if someone points out that I'm wrong on something and I can clearly recognize it. Not only will I admit it, but I'll thank that individual for educating me. kinda hilarious that your just now noticing this after tearing into how many of us for thumping The Parrot upside the head when he doesnt know his arse from a hole in the ground
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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YOU and TAK assert that PVC's are evidence of an abnormal pathway in the heart Twist, twist, twist. PVCs are a result of inefficient or improper transfer of electrical signals between nerve cells specializing in maintaining regularity of heartbeat. Your pathways are defective... Now is that or is that not what you wrote? And if it is, it's just wrong. Why can't you man up and just say, my bad; I was wrong? Why is that so hard?
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Campfire Ranger
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Are you a cardiologist Kevin? It's ok, he's got me on ignore.  No sir I am not. But this is stuff that was well within my scope of practice as a paramedic. Understanding the pathophysiology of PVC's is just incredibly basic stuff for someone who is a provider of Advanced Cardiac Life Support; as I was.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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No as a former medical professional, I'm using the term "normal" as applied by the American Heart Association. Your argument on this matter should be with them, 'cause apparently you know more about cardiology than they do. The American Heart Association may well on occasion use the demographic sense of the word normal (such as when discussing phenomena frequencies within populations), but when speaking of the physiological function of a somatic system or structure, that's not the correct sense in which to use the word. PS When using the word with regard to the latter, it's correctly in the sense of design function, i.e., is this how the system/structure in question is meant to function? Wow Hawk, you just don't know when to quit.
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Campfire Outfitter
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PVC's are normal in EVERYONE OK, I think I see the source of our difficulty. You're using the demographics sense of normal vs abnormal, i.e., looking at phenomena frequencies within populations, rather than the physiological sense, i.e., in relation to design function. The problem there is that all sorts of very bad medical issues (not saying PVCs are that, by the way, so resist the urge to twist) can then be described as normal, since at some point something is inevitably going to kill everybody. Therefore, I would suggest that when speaking of medical complaints, the demographics sense of normal is a far less appropriate choice than the physiological one. People that are ignorant, yet continue to argue about subjects then know "next to nothing" about amaze me. Pretty much EVERYONE has PVC's. Their existence alone in no way indicates anything abnormal. You are trying to discuss something that has a very specific set of terms. For instance, TAK referred to end-diastolic PVC's, which is a textbook term not used often in clinical practice. In the real world, we worry about a long QT interval resulting in R-on-T induced dysrhythmias. But, keep talking. It is amusing.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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No as a former medical professional, I'm using the term "normal" as applied by the American Heart Association. Your argument on this matter should be with them, 'cause apparently you know more about cardiology than they do. The American Heart Association may well on occasion use the demographic sense of the word normal (such as when discussing phenomena frequencies within populations), but when speaking of the physiological function of a somatic system or structure, that's not the correct sense in which to use the word. PS When using the word with regard to the latter, it's correctly in the sense of design function, i.e., is this how the system/structure in question is meant to function? Wow Hawk, you just don't know when to quit. Wow, a guy who said he knows "next to nothing" about EKG's is now telling the AHA how to talk. Hubris knows no bounds.
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I haven't updated a medical cert. since 1989 but even I know that if TAK and TRH share an opinion it is by definition B.S.
mike r I'd wager a small sum that you're a disgusting fat body. I remember when you used that line on me. Then backed off when I offered to do an Ironman with you to see who's the pussy. Pussy.
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Campfire Ranger
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kinda hilarious that your just now noticing this after tearing into how many of us for thumping The Parrot upside the head when he doesnt know his arse from a hole in the ground Well I don't know about that. There are things that are a matter of opinion where I have agreed and disagreed with Hawk on. This is the first time I've ever seen Hawk just plain wrong, and refusing to just admit he's wrong.
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then you havent been paying any attention during your defense of him cause he does this constantly....its just in the past if you werent familiar with the subject you assumed he was right instead of the rest of us....he is doing the same thing in this thread that he does 95% of the time.....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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kinda hilarious that your just now noticing this after tearing into how many of us for thumping The Parrot upside the head when he doesnt know his arse from a hole in the ground Well I don't know about that. There are things that are a matter of opinion where I have agreed and disagreed with Hawk on. This is the first time I've ever seen Hawk just plain wrong, and refusing to just admit he's wrong. He ain't wrong. You are merely arguing over semantics.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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then you havent been paying any attention during your defense of him cause he does this constantly....its just in the past if you werent familiar with the subject you assumed he was right instead of the rest of us....he is doing the same thing in this thread that he does 95% of the time..... There are a lot of threads where I just sit it out. If I don't decide to jump into a thread, then I just go away and I don't pay attention to what's said. That's why I don't know the first thing about what medical role TAK says that I know all about.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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YOU and TAK assert that PVC's are evidence of an abnormal pathway in the heart Twist, twist, twist. PVCs are a result of inefficient or improper transfer of electrical signals between nerve cells specializing in maintaining regularity of heartbeat. Your pathways are defective... Now is that or is that not what you wrote? And if it is, it's just wrong. Why can't you man up and just say, my bad; I was wrong? Why is that so hard? The difference is that you misquoted me as saying that PVCs were evidence of an abnormal pathway in the heart. That's stating it backwards and imprecisely. I assume you have a reason for doing that, and your reasons for doing things like that are usually in the service of twisting. Why not just quote what I've said if you wish to communicate what I believe, rather than rephrasing, if you don't have a twisting intention?
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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Pretty much EVERYONE has PVC's. That's not an argument in support of PVCs constituting examples of normal heart function. Pretty much EVERYBODY occasionally suffers from twitches, yet twitching is, in each and every instance, an example of an abnormal function of the nerves.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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kinda hilarious that your just now noticing this after tearing into how many of us for thumping The Parrot upside the head when he doesnt know his arse from a hole in the ground Well I don't know about that. There are things that are a matter of opinion where I have agreed and disagreed with Hawk on. This is the first time I've ever seen Hawk just plain wrong, and refusing to just admit he's wrong. You're quite funny.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The difference is that you misquoted me as saying that PVCs were evidence of an abnormal pathway in the heart. That's stating it backwards. So, once again, state exactly what PVC's indicate in terms of an abnormality in the electrical conduction system of the heart. Be specific.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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. If your heart doesn't throw a PVC unless it is triggered by caffeine, is it an abnormal heart? On the face of this question and excepting all other conditions and agents, IMHO, no. You have defined maybe 99% of human hearts, the variable being, the amount of caffeine to reach the threshold of resultant ectopy (PVCs) in any individual. I just thought I'd quote this, since I replied to Hawk without reading the thread further, and saw this. This is what Hawk wrote: If there wasn't something wrong with the proper impulse pathways, improper impulses wouldn't occur. Just something to think about. Maybe, since it isn't coming from me, some of you might actually let it sink in a little. Just a bump, since this is the corner you were in when you took your ball and left last time....... Again, maybe concentrate on the part that isn't from me, since that obviously makes you too emotional to think rationally.....
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,045 Likes: 65 |
The difference is that you misquoted me as saying that PVCs were evidence of an abnormal pathway in the heart. That's stating it backwards. So, once again, state exactly what PVC's indicate in terms of an abnormality in the electrical conduction system of the heart. Be specific. Are you unable to read what I've already posted? If you wish to communicate what I believe, simply quote my exact words. They're quite clear. Otherwise I will suspect you have a twisting intention.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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. If your heart doesn't throw a PVC unless it is triggered by caffeine, is it an abnormal heart? On the face of this question and excepting all other conditions and agents, IMHO, no. You have defined maybe 99% of human hearts, the variable being, the amount of caffeine to reach the threshold of resultant ectopy (PVCs) in any individual. I just thought I'd quote this, since I replied to Hawk without reading the thread further, and saw this. This is what Hawk wrote: If there wasn't something wrong with the proper impulse pathways, improper impulses wouldn't occur. Just something to think about. Maybe, since it isn't coming from me, some of you might actually let it sink in a little. Just a bump, since this is the corner you were in when you took your ball and left last time....... Again, maybe concentrate on the part that isn't from me, since that obviously makes you too emotional to think rationally..... He's speaking of demographic normality, not physiological normality. It's demographically normal for one to occasionally suffer muscle twitches, for example, yet it's physiologically abnormal in each and every instance of its occurrence.
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