Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Anschutz Drilling: 16gaX16gaX 9.3x72R

I just picked up this lovely 1930's vintage drilling from my local FFL and I am seriously excited about it. It's in superb condition, locks up very tightly, and I can't wait to shoot it.

Proof marks on the barrels indicate 16 gauge but do not specify chamber length or choke. I'm guessing that as a pre-War gun, I will need to find 2-1/2" shells for it, and I intend to reload appropriate shells for it eventually. I haven't been able to measure the chokes yet, but all I've read suggests the gun is likely choked Full and Full. My initial inclination to consider having the chokes bored out was sharply rebuked by several friends who know about such guns, so I'll refrain from doing that...

The 9.3x72R rifle barrel chambering has me a tad bemused, only because searching on the 'Fire and elsewhere tells me there was a blackpowder-only chambering for this cartridge, and a "nitro" proofed chambering. My barrels are clearly stamped "NITRO", but I don't want to assume anything. I've ordered some S&B ammo for it with 193 gr bullets. I expect I'll cast my own bullets for it once I get some brass to play with.

This is my first drilling. Might not be my last. Any insights from the 'Fire would be appreciated.

Congrats on your drilling. It took me damn near 20 years to find one that had decent bores and decent wood and didn't cost a kings ransom.


I am no expert but Luv2Safari and Erich will know virtually everything about the subject. Good catch on the ammo it is getting a lot harder to find.

Sounds like you have a fine old drilling, hopefully you can add some pictures. While looking huge the 9.3x72R is in the 35 Rem class in power. There are any number of different 9.3x72R chambering's, by the 1930's you should have pretty much a standard chamber the S&B ammo is intended for. There was also a 9.3x72R Sauer that is different it has a shouldered case although slight that looks very much like the 9.3x74R a much more powerful round. Also there can be large differences in bore dimensions slugging the bore before you purchase a mold would be a good idea, groove diameters can run as small as .358 and as large as .366.

As for the 16ga if the chamber length isn't marked on the barrel flats you can pretty much assume it is 2 1/2" at that age. I would stick to 2 1/2" shells and try and keep the pressures down just if only in respect for the age of the drilling. There is some that think 2 3/4" shells are fine in a 2 1/2" chamber that it doesn't raise pressure enough to matter BUT most modern 2 3/4" ammo is loaded fairly hot to reliably operate semi autos. RST has a large selection of 2 1/2" 16ga ammo including bismuth for hunting. Graf's and Ballistic Products usually have 2 1/2" 16ga hulls in stock and longer shells are easily cut down. BPI has the "Advantages" shotshell reloading book that has 2 1/2" data in it. I shoot 3/4oz loads of ITX(soft non-toxic) for waterfowl, 7/8 oz of lead for upland and 1 oz for coyotes. With a roll crimper and new hulls you can load very nice ammo with out the need for a reloading press. If you are going to shoot a lot MEC makes a 2 1/2" adaptor for their 600 press to load fold crimp shells.

My 16ga/16ga/9.3x72R is a 1907 Hammer drilling with a .364 groove diameter but only a .344 bore diameter with very high narrow lands.

MEC 600 with adaptor installed



One ugly coyote taken with the shotgun barrel 1 oz of NP BB's at quite mild pressure. This is a 1926 Wilkes(retailer, maker unknown) in 16ga/16ga/6.5x58R Sauer The parent case is the standard 9.3x72R that I resize to 6.5x58R



A nicer looking one with the drilling in full coyote hunting mode



L to R 375 Win, 35 Whelen, 9.3x72R S&B



Stepped/two diameter bullet to accommodate the different bore sizes found in the 9.3x72R



L to R 243 WIN, 6.5x58R Sauer, 9.3x72R speaking of ranges of bore diameters this 6.5 has a groove diameter of .260 and I have to size .264 bullets to .260 for it.

+1 on slugging the rifle bore. My wife has a "guild" combination gun in 16/9.3x72R. It will shoot the 2-diameter bullet all right, but it turned out the bore/groove diameters are close enough to American .35 caliber to shoot Speer 180-grain Hot-Cors even better, which made reloading for it a LOT easier--partly because the cases can be neck-sized with .357 Magnum dies.

John wrote a very good article on the 9.3x72R in Handloader a number of years ago, I wish I could remember the issue. I have a copy but is still packed in the moving boxes.

Huntingtons and buffalo Arms carry brass and Buffalo Arms has the two diameter bullets.

Link to BA bullets

https://www.buffaloarms.com/366-193-grain-fn-sp-jacketed-bullets-for-9-3x72r-box-of-50-bac366193

C&H has 9.3x72R dies, usually in stock at a very reasonable price. The owner is a pretty good source of info if you have one of the early variations of this cartridge that won't chamber the standard round.

erich: thanks for the detailed reply!

I'm currently working a string of night shifts, so in my "spare" time last night after I put up my OP, I did some searching and found a very reasonable deal on 2.5" 16 gauge paper hulll shotshells from RST, which I expect will last me a while. I share your affection for ITX loads for waterfowl, however, so while I was first inclined to stick with factory ammo, I am seriously considering a MEC press now.

The paper hull shells got my attention for two reasons. First, nostalgia: my dad's only shotgun (which he shot a LOT of birds with from the late 40's onward) was a Model 12 in 16 gauge, which he still insists is the perfect gauge for all upland and duck hunting (I noted a few years ago that other shotgun gurus such as the late Michael Macintosh share this delusion with my dad, btw). But in any case, my brother has Dad's old Model 12 now and uses it for upland bird hunting in Alberta, and it might be fun to load up some ITX shells to take up there and share with him on a watefowl hunt one of these years. In any case, when I was a small boy Dad used to bring home his spent shotshells for me to play with. They were C.I.L. "Canuck" brand, paper hulls, and the aroma of those shells rivalled Hoppe's No. 9 for top spot on the list of Best Smells In The World. I've used paper hull 12-gauge shells some in the past few years, and damn if that amazing aroma isn't even better when the barrels are hot and the smoke is thick! The second reason I bought them is that I've become a fan of roll-crimping my 12-gauge ITX hunting loads. Ballistic Products has the roll-crimpers for all gauges, so I'm curious to see if I can reload these paper hulls. The guys at BP seem to think I'll have no problem, although I doubt they'll reload dozens of times the way you can plastic hulls.

I will definitely slug the bore of the 9.3 barrel. There appears to be a bunch of bullet options for this caliber, depending on the bore's dimensions. My guess is that Anschutz, being one of the larger manufacturers in Germany between the wars, the bore will be more "standard" than unique. We shall see.

I have no experience with German claw mounts for rifle scopes, so that will be an adventure as well. The folding-leaf rear sight on the gun pops up when you select the rifle barrel, which is cute, but the bead is a loooong way from the rear sight and it's tiny, so I'm not sure I'll be able to hit jack-s h i t with it until I mount a scope. We shall see.

I should have JB's old 9.3x72R article somewhere, as I have most Handloader back issues since 2000 or so... but I lost several boxes of them when Harvey hit our town 18 months ago, so I will probably have to search online for it.

JB... thanks for chiming in, that's good info to know about the bullets for Eileen's drilling. I'll let you guys know what it looks like after I slug the shotgun, which won't happen until I'm back home next week.

Doc, I have a choke gauge and chamber length gauge that I bought from Galazan years ago. They are made out of brass. I would be happy to lend them to you. PM me if you are interested and I can mail them your way.

You guys keep this up and I'll start looking for one myself!

May I suggest Ballistic Products X-streme[sp] spreader appliances for use in your handloads if you find patterns too tight for your liking? I've been a devotee of them since they were introduced. They work a treat in the tightly choked German 16 gauge guild gun I own. Conversely, the advise offered me by a sage old wise guy of "just waiting a beat or two before pulling the trigger beats cutting steel" makes good sense too...

One thing I hesitate to mention, because it has already caused at least on Campfire SS, is that it's perfectly safe to fire 2-3/4 inch shells in 2-1/2 inch chambers. This has been proven over and over again for several decades now, but the myth is so imbedded in shooting lore that many refuse to believe it, even after being provided with pressure-tested evidence. (One other little detail is that often European 16-gauge "short" chambers aren't actually 2-1/2", but around 2-5/8". But you won't know unless they're measured.)

The potential problem isn't the case length, but the fact that older shotguns often aren't designed for the pressures of modern shotshells. Whether this is true of the Anschutz is another question.

Sakoluvr, thanks for the offer, I'll PM ya.

gnoahhh... I've used something like the BP Xtreme Spreader before. They work. I'd say 90% of the birds I have killed in a lifetime of upland hunting have been with open chokes, either the I/C barrel of my fixed choke doubles or a Skeet choke in my screw-in guns, so I have no inclination to hunt with tightly choked barrels unassisted. The Spreader inserts will help I'm sure.

These shells will work just fine in your gun, and don't be alarmed by the old myth of high pressures being generated because of the 65mm chambers. If you use a low velocity/low pressure 2 3/4" load you'll be fine.

https://www.luckygunner.com/16-ga-2-3-4-8-shot-game-target-fiocchi-gt-target-25-rounds

I use a lot of this loading in my 65mm chambered Robust #4, my grouse gun. It's a very light gun, not thick or heavy anywhere. I've used a load like this in it for 25 years or so.
https://www.hinterlandoutfitters.co...65-lead-shot-rdbx-case-boxes-p-6502.html

Hawk makes a .365 diameter 200 gr bullet that does well in a 9,3X72R in good condition. Slug the bore, and if you get .364 to .366 the Hawk 200 will be a great bullet. IMR 30-31 was made for the old X72R. I start at 40gr and check for regulation. If you stay around 38-43 gr you're fine, given that the bore is standard or close. Go to their bullet selection, then menu and scroll to the .365 bullets.

http://hawkbullets.com/

A FUN light load is 12-15gr of Trailboss under a .365 95gr Makarov jacketed bullet. This is what I load.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/6339


BE SURE TO ALWAYS PUT A SMALL DAB OF WHITE GREASE ON THE HINGE PIN!!

JB, thanks for weighing in on the pressure/length issue. I'm not really too worried about it, as I've done quite a bit of reading on that score. I've even tested it to some extent with a couple of old 12-gauge SXS guns that I shoot BP loads only in. Chamber casts show them to be 2-5/8", but I've fired many 2-3/4" BP shells in them with no ill effect and perfectly good patterns.

I guess I'm just looking to be as careful and correct with this lovely old drilling as I can be.

(FWIW, I have some Cerrosafe around the shop and I plan to cast the shotgun chambers as well as the rifle bore to get accurate measurements.)

I guess one other point that tickles me about this old gun is that my very first rifle, given to me by my father on my 12th birthday, was an Anschutz single shot .22. Not one of the fancy ones used by European target masters, but a simple boy's rifle distributed by C.I.L. in Canada back in the 60's. Hopefully this won't be the last rifle I acquire before shuffling off the mortal coil, but it's a bit of a completion of a long, old circle...

As you have obviously figured out, the RST loads are low pressure and the proper chamber length for your gun. I've never used them, truthfully. I've been using Baschieri & Pellagri loads in my short chambered 16s (1940 Sauer SxS and a 1903 Winchester 1897) - I've found them to be VERY effective on our sharptail and ringneck populations - their #5 load kicks the sh*t out of late season pheasants! They are a plastic hull, 2 5/8". I get them via Aerostar Outdoors and only buy when they are on sale. Be aware that their case lot is 8 boxes, not the standard 10. Just another option, should you be interested. A buddy of mine turned me on to these loads and I've never looked back.....

Kaiser Norton