Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 25 Souper

Yep.

Some of the talk above about new high BC 25 cal bullets reviving interest in the Souper is somehow missing one reason why the Creedmoor displaced the 260 Remington.

I like the 25 caliber rifles but to me a 25 Souper or 25 Creed are just more cartridges adding to the dilution. As for the Creed displacing the 260 Remington one could argue the 260 never stood a chance, Remington screwed it just as they did several other cartridges like the 6MM Remington and 280 Remington. The Creedmoor was designed as a target cartridge from the outset to fit in short actions using long bullets. I might be wrong but the 260 was designed as a medium game cartridge that is more flexible than the 243. And as many cartridges are it was just an adaptation of a very common standard case. At the time of it's appearance shooting steel meant metallic silhouette not pushing out past 1000 yards with bullets that did not exist at the time.

I have one built on a Winchester 88 - like it but like many others have said it accomplishes little that other similar cartridges do as well…….although that could be said of many of the cartridges that we have nowadays😁

PennDog

But it was something you wanted. That makes it good.

I've had a couple of 25 Soupers, still have one, a rechambered Ruger 77 RSI that was a 250-3000. I think that it is a good cartridge, but I don't see that it does anything that can't be done with a 243, 257 Bob, 260, or 6.5 CM. I think of the 25 Souper as a 250AI that tends to feed better.

Along with a few other 0.257" bore rifles I have a few of those unloved 25 WSSMs in Winchester 70s that feed fine and shoot straight, despite Winchester's best effort to deliver it stillborn and then virtually abandoned it for the guys who don't load their own ammo.

My feeling is that not offering a 25 on the 308 case was one of the biggest WTH's that Winchester ever did. In todays market, the niche for it would be too narrow. But back then,I feel it would have been a solid addition.

Even today, for people wanting a true short action .25 that will feed and slurp into a chamber like butter, the 25-08 (aka 25 Souper, etc) can make some sense if they're looking at a similar .25 like the 250 Ackley. The two 25-08's I worked with (bedding and load work) turned out really nice. Standard 243/308 mag box and follower, dies are stupid simple and the Lapua 243 cases necked up are as good as it gets and virtually bullet proof. With 100 gr. Partitions, they've taken a couple truck loads full of game for the owners over the past years.

If I didn't have an excellent 250 Ackley, I'd build myself a 25-08 in a New York minute.....

Good shootin'.

I came really dang close to buying one of those back in the day when they came out. My old man said "I bet you won't be able to find brass for that in 5 years"... and lo and behold, he was spot on calling that one.

Glad I passed, in hindsight.

The above nailed it. Not unless it’s something that you can stuff in a black rifle. Bolt guns are covered with overlap.

I did write that piece, and I still have the rifle. But it's going to be one that goes when I sell the bulk of my guns soon. It's a sweet shooter that duplicates the ballistics of the round Ackley said was his very best. In fact, had the .308 existed when old PO crafted his 250 AI, he likely would just have gone the 25-308 route. The two case volumes are identical.

Factory round? Not a chance. Heck, there isn't even a factory 250 Savage rifle made today. Nor a 257 Roberts, as far as I can tell.

Yeah, once in while some company does a "special run" of .250 Savage or .257 Roberts rifles, which mostly sell to geezers who've never quite gotten past how the .243 Winchester pushed those older cartridges to the side of the road...

Ruger seems to be the most frequent with those two, of late. They did runs of the #1 in both of those cartridges in the past couple years.

I was eyeballing a shiny new #1 medium sporter in 250 last year, but ended up getting a Savage 99 I had with bad headspace in 300 rebaralled to 250 instead... came out cheaper, anyway.

Or even for younger men, back when I was a younger man, who chose to go down the road less traveled and looked hard to justify the purchase of rifles in 6MM REM, 250-3000, and 257 Roberts in lieu of the all too plebian 243.

I'm glad that I bought a couple thousand Federal WSSM cases when it was on sale and a couple thousand rounds of Winchester/Olin factory ammo, back when CDNN was closing out much of the WSSM inventory after USRA went out of business in 2006. I think that the WSSMs could have gained some traction and market share if USRA had survived and had nurtured it. Initially, there was a variety of factory ammo to cover both varmint and medium game hunting, but when USRA went out of business, Winchester/Olin discontinued most of the WSSM factory loads, limiting its usefulness and market draw.

The internet didn't help any, as there was internet chatter that the 223 WSSM was a barrel burner, despite the fact that all of the Browning and USRA rifles chambered in 223 WSSM and 243 WSSM had chrome lined barrels. But, just as with any barrel, if you overheat it, you can destroy the accuracy.

I was fairly young and poor at the time, so there's no way I would have been able to buy enough brass all at once back then to have kept me shooting the thing up to now... 15+ years later.

I saw an identical pair of rifles in 243 WSSM at a lgs pretty cheap a couple years ago. I would venture a guess the owner had dumped them because he couldn't find ammo anymore, and wasn't a handloader.

I'm a Geezer. I have a #1 in 250 Savage thats a tack driver and am having a bolt gun built in it as well using an action shortened by Pete Grissel. While my Remington 700 Classic in 250 Savage is for sale it's only because of the custom rifle being built. I also have a beautiful Cooper Varmint Extreme in 25 WSSM but I was smart enough to lay in a thousand or so unprimed Winchester brass when I bought the rifle.

I'm building a .25 Souper Improved 30 degree shoulder at the moment. I have the reamer, just waiting on the dies. I'm just wanting to duplicate the performance of the .257 Roberts when it has its bullets seated out to 2.9"+ and when its got a 24" barrel, but in a short action with a shorter barrel. No problem getting brass (use .243 brass), not much case stretching, should feed fine. Case holds 51 grains H4350 to base of neck.

What is the difference between a .25 Creed and the .250A!??????

At the risk of being called pedantic, the Creedmoors have thirty degree shoulders rather than forty.

Unless you are planning to use very long bullets such as the 133 grain Bergers or the all-copper bullets, then you can use a longer case around 2.045" and get greater case capacity and faster velocity and still fit comfortably in a short action. The 6.5 Creedmore case is designed to accommodate the longer, heavier 6.5 bullets around 140 grain. That's one of the advantages of the .25 caliber, the shorter bullets if you are only going to use 100-120 grain lead-core.

A few thousandths of an inch.

Last Fall, I was at the range with my 250 Ackley and another shooter and I started talking. He was shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor and asked to look at what I was shooting. He saw 'Lapua' on the cases and not looking any further said: "It's a 25 Creedmoor! How cool!"

Good shootin' -Al