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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 356
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 356 |
Digging through a drawer and found an old B&L scope with external adjustments. Back in the dark days before the internet, many folks felt the external adjustments were more reliable. I see the extreme long range people are using mounts with a great deal of elevation adjustments. Seems like a very rugged scope and adjustable mount could be produced for which there would be no market what ever. Luddites Unite!
Elevation is math Windage is Voodoo
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 987
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,301 Likes: 7
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,301 Likes: 7 |
I have a pristine M722 with a Balvar 8 and B&L mounts.
For hunting the mounts are exposed in a fashion that would make them more susceptible to bumps and hits, dirt or even ice. Keeping them lubed would be important to prevent rust, which of course would attract more dirt. Plus the whole set-up is heavy.
But the rifle with the scope is cool as can be!
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,229
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,229 |
B&L tried to sell the externally adjusted scopes as an economic way to outfit multiple rifles with quality optics. You could buy one B&L scope that can be quickly swapped between multiple rifle with inexpensive B&L bases. The bases are a PITA to zero, since there is no "feel" to the adjustment and the calibration marks don't indicate a specific change, but they can be finely zeroed and once zeroed and locked, they hold their zero.
Around 30 years ago I went down the B&L Balvar rabbit hole and was fortunate enough to hook up with THE expert on them, a guy by the name of Fred Warren, who lived in a suburb of Cleveland, OH. Fred had an encyclopedic knowledge of all things related to the Balvar externally adjusted scopes and knew the people who made the mounts, Kuharsky Brothers in Erie, PA. B&L didn't make the mounts, the bases and ring sets, in house, they contracted with Kuharsky Brothers to make them. After B&L dropped the externally adjusted Balvar line, Kuharsky Brothers continued to sell the mounts under their own name and later on, when Kuharsky Brothers stopped making the mounts, an outfit called "Pimm" made them. I don't know the specifics about "Pimm", but they made bases and a ring set that combined attributes of both the plunger and spring style ring set that were made by Kuharsky Brothers and sold under the B&L name.
I am long past my B&L Balvar phase, but still have dozens of scopes and many dozens of mounts and ring sets in 64 quart plastic tote boxes.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 365 Likes: 1
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 365 Likes: 1 |
Is there a market for vintage Weaver scopes with the external adjustments?
Greg
NRA Life Member, 1990 Life Member, NYSRPA Life Member, Saugerties Fish and Game Club the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Second Amendment, U.S. Constitution (1791)
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,301 Likes: 7
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Campfire Ranger
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Good stuff 260. I didn’t know about the Pimm part of the story.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,229
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,229 |
Is there a market for vintage Weaver scopes with the external adjustments? The only externally adjusted Weaver scope that I know of it the V8 and they are generally not thought of as being in the same league, optically speaking, as the B&Ls.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,229
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,229 |
Good stuff 260. I didn’t know about the Pimm part of the story. Pimm also made the bases and rings for the B&L Trophy line after Kuharsky Brothers got out of that business. I have wondered if Pimm was a business established by someone who had a personal relationship with Kuharsky Brothers. Sadly, when Fred Warren died, he took his knowledge with him to the grave.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,084 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,084 Likes: 1 |
I have a Savage 10 22-250 that I set up with a Balvar 8 for an egg shoot, I wanted to shoot with the oldest scope. .I didn't win but made it to the third round. Later that day I killed a coyote with it and several since. I couldn't find a base so I used a Leupold windage adjustable base and rings and shimmed for elevation. It works well. I call the rifle "Turret Twisters Nightmare" I get some real odd stares when they realize there are no windage ore elevation adjustments.
After the first shot the rest are just noise.
Make mine a Minaska
Heaven has walls and rules, H-ll has open borders
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,780 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,780 Likes: 5 |
The external mounts were also a way to get around crosshairs/reticles that didn’t remain centered when you made adjustments.
The scope on my first centerfire was an OLD Tasco with a non-centered crosshair. I learned a lot about scopes and mounts trying to shim those Weaver bases and rings to bring the crosshair relatively close to center.
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,667 Likes: 2
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,667 Likes: 2 |
I have a small collection. and have them mounted on a few Winchesters. M670 carbine 2.5-5 and M70 2.5-8.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,704
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
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I learned early on the Buehler Micro Dial was the way to go, much easier to adjust vs the B&L/Kuharsky, Stith Master or Leupold Adjusto-mount.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,229
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,229 |
I learned early on the Buehler Micro Dial was the way to go, much easier to adjust vs the B&L/Kuharsky, Stith Master or Leupold Adjusto-mount. I agree that the Buehler Micro Dial base is the best way to go if you'd not going to take advantage of the feature that allows you to transfer the same scope between multiple rifles which was the primary selling point that B&L emphasized in their advertisements. I have a Buehler Micro Dial on a pre-'64 Winchester 70 with a Balvar 8A. It looks and work good and would be my choice if I wasn't going to take advantage of ability to transfer one scope between multiple rifles. IME the Buehler and B&L adjustable bases are more user friendly than the Leupold Adjusto and Stith Master mounts.
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