|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,704 Likes: 47
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,704 Likes: 47 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,962 Likes: 35
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,962 Likes: 35 |
I hope you and Dianne enjoy your visit. Antietam can bring the ghost to life as well, but for whatever the reason, Gettysburg really does something to me that I canāt quite explain. Hopefully youāll get to see Fredericksburg and Manasses, maybe Petersburg as well. I know youāll be pressed for time. Heck, maybe another trip next year!š Theres a lot of history to see here! But even for a few days, itās time well spent. Reon
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." ļæ½ Wesley Pruden
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,704 Likes: 47
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,704 Likes: 47 |
Burnside Bridge, Antietam Creekā¦
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29 |
My ppls was just ovr the hill from there defending cemetery hill thank god APHill showed upš
Last edited by earlybrd; 05/04/24.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,256 Likes: 34
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,256 Likes: 34 |
Never went to Gettysburg, but have been to Ft. Donelson, Manassass and Spotsylvania Courthouse battle fields. Sobering places to visit.
Last edited by DigitalDan; 05/04/24.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8 |
Longstreetās flank march took so long to get into position because the staff officer who reconnoitered the route got lost, but didnāt know it. He was supposed to lead the column along a route that was terrain masked from Federal view, but the route he said would work wouldnāt.
A lot of the vitriol directed at Longstreet comes from the fact that he became a Republican after the war. Iām aware of the post-war condemnation of Longstreet at the time by the Lost Cause faction and long dismissed it as unfounded. Iāve been a Longstreet fan, still am, and find it no wonder that him and Grant were good friends, before and after the war. Reading deeper into the topic of Gettysburg however, IMHO Longstreetās lack of enthusiasm for Leeās plan permeates all his actions that day, beginning well before the fumbling counter march that afternoon (which was no fault of Longstreetās). From āThe Second Day at Gettysburgā (2016 Schultz & Mingus) Much has been written about the late hour Longstreet began what would be a meandering march to the armyās right flank, and the opening of his assault. In all likelihood, we will never fully understand or agree why this aspect of the battle evolved as it did. We do know that General Lee knew of Longstreetās desire to wait for Law and reluctantly agreed. Lawās brigade did not leave New Guilford, almost 25 miles away near Fayetteville, until 3 AM. Even with the relentless, uninterrupted march, Lawās 1900 men could not cross South Mountain and reach the battlefield before 1pm and Longstreet knew this when he visited Lee that morningā¦.
Union troops continued reach the field during these intervening hours, so any increase Lawās Brigade contributed to the attack was more than offset by enemy arrivals. Longstreet did not send Porter Alexander south on yet another reconnaissance to seek a route for his artillery until after 9am, which means Longstreet could not have expected Alexander to return much before 11am. Whatever the caseā¦ while waiting for Lawās Brigade to arrive from New Guilfordā¦. the timing of Leeās initial morning plan collapsedā¦
There was no viable reason, however, for Longstreet to keep the men he did have on hand marking time, and yet that is precisely what he did. His divisions under Hood and McLaws did not march a step toward their jump-off positions. Instead they spent several hours sitting atop Herrās Ridgeā¦ ( and would later contribute to the turn-around traffic jam.)
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,980 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,980 Likes: 11 |
It's on my bucket list along with a tour of Europe for the ww2 sites.
As for the confederate monuments, they should stay. It's history, whether dark or not, it's our history. I would say we could learn from it but folks nowadays are too stupid This is well said. I have no problem with Confederate History being displayed. When I was younger and stationed at Kessler AFB for electronics training, I visited the "Confederate whitehouse". I remember walking out into the back yard where several soldiers had ben buried and was jolted to see all the confederate flags posted over the bodies. History should be like that, a reminder of what has happened in our past, be it glorious or dubious. And I completely agree, England and France would have invaded and gobble dup as much as they could, changing world history back to Socialist slavery (without there U.S. I doubt WW2 would have ended in an allied victory and Hitler and Stalin might still be alive today, lording it over us. It's on my bucket list along with a tour of Europe for the ww2 sites.
As for the confederate monuments, they should stay. It's history, whether dark or not, it's our history. I would say we could learn from it but folks nowadays are too stupid This is well said. I have no problem with Confederate History being displayed. When I was younger and stationed at Kessler AFB for electronics training, I visited the "Confederate whitehouse". I remember walking out into the back yard where several soldiers had ben buried and was jolted to see all the confederate flags posted over the bodies. History should be like that, a reminder of what has happened in our past, be it glorious or dubious. And I completely agree, England and France would have invaded and gobble dup as much as they could, changing world history back to Socialist slavery (without there U.S. I doubt WW2 would have ended in an allied victory and Hitler and Stalin might still be alive today, lording it over us. Eisenhower didnāt protect and force everyone possible to view concentration camps as an endorsement of them, or what happened. Not many big events in history are white or black. Nothing big happens cleanly, itās important to memorialize them. Then let them stand for the lessons to be learned. Wrote more, erased it. Dont want to derail Shraps good thread with WWII stuff. The day Virginia took down a statue of Lee I felt a huge loss. If I was a Virginian, Iād likely cried. No Rebs in my family at that time, but itās my history. My country, a big moment in itās existence. Actually honor and respect the man for the terrible decision he had to make. It was not a lark, wasnāt easy. He struggled greatly with which side to choose.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29 |
Longstreet pussyfooted around that and lack of coordination with APHill doomed us
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,704 Likes: 47
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,704 Likes: 47 |
Antietam cornfield, controlled 6 times North to Southā¦
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29 |
Did ya make it to the sunkin rd?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,623 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,623 Likes: 10 |
I like Walter Williams but he got that wrong. It is never as cut and dried as it is stated by the "lost cause" crowd that we-wrote history. At the time our nation was divided among slave states and non-slave states. The great issue at that time was the "New Territories". There were great debates over them being admitted. The slave states demanded they be allowed to b admitted as slave states. They wanted to grow slavery. Another argument keeping them from staying in the union was the non slave states and escaped slaves. The south wanted the northern non slave states to honor their property rights. They also wanted to use the slave's census as a battering ram to gain power in congress. It's a sort of twisted scenario of what we're going through today with illegal migrants being admitted to the voting rolls. Slaves had not rights to vote. They actually had no rights at all. This has been beat to death and though Lincoln and the Republican party did go around the original intent of states rights in a way they were forced to by the circumstances. Be careful what you wish for because if the states had managed to get their way there would be no America as we know it today. England and France were praying for the south to win because it would've split the states and allowed them to come in and take property. The southern slave states could've kept their slaves and remained but it was ruled that no new territories would be admitted as slave states. This post is nicely thought and said, but does not show that Walter Williams was wrong in his evidence and analysis. Yes, had the intended concept of state power and rights been honored and secession taken place, this country probably would have developed differently, and might be very different than it is and has been. Then again, couldn't we now imagine something better than what we now have? It's history, but I think WW's reasoning is correct.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,704 Likes: 47
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,704 Likes: 47 |
Did ya make it to the sunkin rd? Today. From the road in the field it can still hide hundreds of people from viewā¦
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29 |
John b Gordon dam near bled out there bullet hole in his cap saved him
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,623 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,623 Likes: 10 |
Thanks for this fine thread. I grew up less than 100 miles from Gettysburg and have visited and studied/restudied the place many times, especially when much younger. It is a wonderful monument to many things, I am deeply touched upon each visit, may never be there again, but would go in a heartbeat if opportune.
It is good the see that shrapnel is there and taking in so much. Well done.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,645 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,645 Likes: 1 |
Iāve been there several times. Very emotional place if you love people and history. I think the fact that General Thomas Jonathan āStonewallā Jackson was killed before the battle at Gettysburg probably changed the way the battle turned out. He would have taken the high ground when Gemeral Lee ordered it. Antietam is another place you should visit. Also an emotional place.
Ron
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. Orwell
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 982
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 982 |
Planning my first trip up there in the next couple weeks. I appreciate everyones posts about what to do and see!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,962 Likes: 35
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,962 Likes: 35 |
Pete was wearing slippers that day, having injured his foot earlier in the campaign when āHeroā had slipped and fell on it. Imagine a Corps commander in the Confederate Army wearing slippers while he and members of his staff, are serving a 12 pounder which cannoneers had already been killed in combat!š Iām gonna have Mike back me up, as I know he remembers the story better than I. Longstreet and several others were on foot, scoping out what was in front of them. IIRC, D H Hill joined them on horseback, and as mounted soldiers often drew cannon fire, was told to dismount. He refused, and a Yankee gun fired from 3/4s of a mile away. āThat one is for you, General Hillā said Pete, and no sooner were the words spoken when a solid shot removed the front legs from Hillās horse! Leonidas Polk was killed at Kennesaw Mountain by a well placed shot from a 10 Pounder Parrot rifle from a mile away! Legend has it that after the gunner had lined up the sight, he offered the lanyard to General Sherman! That Civil War artillery was both accurate and deadly!
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." ļæ½ Wesley Pruden
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,527 Likes: 29 |
lil Mac ovr estimated Bobby Lee that day
|
|
|
|
231 members (17CalFan, 673, 7mm_Loco, 204guy, 2ndwind, 31 invisible),
3,158
guests, and
1,148
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,778
Posts18,535,988
Members74,041
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|