Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Hodgden acquires RCBS

Good God,

This is one of those instances when somebody does not like hearing what others have to say and calls it "running their mouth".

AGAIN.....Just observing what has happened that is all and commenting on it.....just ...like...everyone...else...with their own observations and insights

Fine.

I hope you have a good day Drop point.

It isn't liking or disliking what you have to say. It is a matter of the veracity of your statement. I do hope you have a great day!

Apparently you don't know much about present smokeless powder manufacturing. There are several factors involved--but not what your question "suggests".

First, there are very few companies actually manufacturing smokeless rifle powder in the U.S. The primary plant is in Florida, which produces a bunch of the powders sold under the Hodgdon name, and others. (Others, such as the DuPont plant in Delaware, which first made IMR powders, were shut down primarily due to local attitudes/regulations.)

The present plant making most IMR powders is in southern Quebec. It's so close to the U.S. that rail shipping is still "affordable," rather than the across-ocean shipping (in ships!) required for the many powders imported from Australia, along with Belgium and other European countries. Also, some of the IMR powders have also been produced in Australia.

If you really, truly want most smokeless powders to be produced in the USA, then you might suggest that to Hodgdon, and then see if you can find any part of your local 'Murica' wants to have a gun powder manufacturing plant nearby. This, of course, would also include the plant's ability to hire enough workers....

You evidently didn't read my posts or his.

What makes you think lobbying to Hogdon would make them figure out a way to manufacture powder for commercial sale in the US vs their Canadian, European, and Australian suppliers?

There you have it. From someone I would say who knows what they are talking about.

Where did I say anything about "lobbying to Hogdon"?

Apparently you have reading comprehension (and spelling) difficulties, like some other Campfire members.

The Quebec plant was built by DuPont in WWI , and has been making most of the IMR powders since they were introduced.

The war surplus powders Bruce Hodgdon began selling in the 40's/50's were from several sources including DuPont, when that supply ran out Hodgdon began developing the "H" line of 4 digit powders, some were manufactured in the USA, including Dupont, some were manufactured in Europe, and eventually in Australia.

The point Drop Point is making is that powder manufacturers are not arbitrarily raising prices. The prices we are seeing is because of skyrocketing costs which you are already aware of. Some members seem to "know" that Hodgdon is part of some secret cabal that is conspiring to raise prices.

All the rhetoric and bullchit aside, it’s a complex market. The demand side is not broad enough to inspire suppliers to moderate or lower prices. Why would powder companies lower prices when they can’t keep up with demand? Grocery prices have increased about 40% since 2019 and fuel prices have doubled, so why would one expect powder prices not to follow? Runaway inflation impacts every segment of the market!

Go buy groceries and fill up your pickup on the way to the polls in November.

Casey,

The Quebec plant's history goes back to black powder, though it obviously changed when smokeless became "standard." IMR powders have been made in several locations, as have others.

I was pretty tired last night, due to a very busy day--a lot of of it writing, since despite being semi-retired am still working, more during some periods than others. Have posted plenty on this entire subject before on the Campfire, as well as "paper" sources, but might do some more tonight, as there are several instances involving Hodgdon that would apparently surprise some members....

Morning, John.

My question is if prices are being set due to skyrocketing costs than how can PPU afford to sell loaded ammunition for less than what some want for just brass? I bought 20 rounds of PPU 7x57 Mauser with 139 soft point bullets at $19.97. If I tried to purchase this from Federal they would be $50.00. That's too much of a cost difference IMHO to be skyrocketing costs.

My experiences as a consumer aside, this whole development fascinates me. Couple of questions come to mind;
1) Did Hodgdon ever "manufacture" powders? My recollection is that Bruce Hodgdon got started selling surplus military powders. I know that Hodgdon has expertise in sourcing, storing, distribution and marketing...but have they ever manufactured powder? By my limited knowledge, powders are coming from St Marks in FL, ADI in Au, and various other sources.
2) Has any reloading supplier been successful consolidating the varied pieces necessary. Omark/Blount is out, Alliant is being parted out. Olin is out. Who knows where Remington will end up. What are the tea leaves saying about Hodgdon's likelihood of success?

Looks like Olin is still in the game. From another forum;

Looks like Olin and FN Herstal share the Winchester label.

Old memory kicking in but didn't Hodgdon own and produce Pyrodex I realize it is not smokeless but hammering Hodgdon seem pointless.

Olin owns the Winchester brand and has no partners in the ammo business. They partner with FN on the guns by licensing the name rights to FN, IIRC.

Really? It's 7x57. US mfgs might do a run of that every couple years. Of course they charge more for it. Same with .25/20 and all the other outdated stuff folks gripe about not being available. Blue box Federal is still ~$25 a box for common rounds, simply because they make more of it.

I started dealing with the powder shortage by shooting my bow . About 95% of the time I pull the trigger , an arrow flies. Also, I see an abundance of 22LR ammo out there. I also started shooting my TC Renegade muzzleloader lately. I make my own round balls and patches. I will likely soon make my own black powder . Now all I have to do is make my own # 11 caps . It is actually fun making patches on a Friday night in the middle of winter when it's -10F. As for reloading , I went from a . 270 Win. to a .243 WIn, to a .223 Rem. and use half the powder I used to. Now days I just buy Lee dies.. They are right down the road, about 18 miles from home.

Did you even read any of what was being discussed before you posted? You should reread it because your comment makes zero sense.

Hodgdon hasn't produced any powders except Pyrodex. They've always essentially been a distributor--and so have some other companies.

Western Powders, which Hodgdon also purchased recently, has always been the same sort of company. It started in the 1940s, as a distributor of blasting powders for mining in central Montana. But the son of the guy who started the company inherited Western, he also started distributing handloading powders--including IMRs. (I know this due to knowing that son, Doug Phair, very well.)

Eventually Doug decided that he could do the same thing as Hodgdon, and sell a "Western" brand of powder called Ramshot. Through his connections, he decided a powder manufacturer in Belgium, which like many actual powder makers (not distributors) was already making some powders that would work well for handloaders--despite the fact that the primary powder was designed for both the 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 NATO rounds. This spherical powder was designed to measure very consistently in mass-produced ammo, and also be pretty temp-resistant and burn cleanly--both good thing in automatic military rifles.

This was TAC, and the same Belgian company also produced other powders on the same principles--including Big Game, Hunter, Magnum etc. (Other Ramshot powders have been produced in the same St. Marks plant in Florida that also makes a bunch of powder for other companies.