Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Meanwhile, on the Border,.....

"That's all right tho, because these pukes are headed north your way, you deal with them."

.........OOooooooooo,

we're in luck,

"Hunter" will do all the "Paperwork",...while fling Chit at those of us that actually know why we're doing our daily chores for.

Ron,...I'm ready to shut this thread off,......ya'll are givin' me a whisker of hope.

Something NOTABLY absent outta' Tenn. loudmouth.

GTC

Something I think it's approppriate to call out , at this time,....

Demise looming,....or NOT,....

is that the dates on the data posted ( read ruthlessly scalped)
usually coresponds with the date of posting,.....

UP TO THE DATE,....like.

For this,...one is attacked.

.........By a "COP"..........?

I wonder if "Hunter 1960" even exists,......or mebbe is not just a regular shift change at some KOS website,....like a series of young punks waving their stupidity, ....in exchange for dope, sex, .....and such.

One man, ....or mob described,... his unrellenting attacks are disruptive,....and take away time better spent on SOLVING these problems.

I repeat,....problems,.....nothin' discussed here is monolithic, or particularly difficult to solve.

All we need's the will.

GTC

This,...from the "Old Curmudgeon" ( I'm kinda feelin' honored by that,...)

Maybe fitting in view of incipient demise of this easy to maintain / update thread

Another long read,....but a CONTEMPORARY CLASSIC,

the writer obviously grew up on Steinbeck, and captures what
RoninPhx was getting at,.....

Cryin' out loud,....they'd put Kid Steinbeck on Ritalin, these days ( mosta' US, Too)

We can solve this,....some prayer about it can't hurt.

Link: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/091308dnmexicoborder.7140c29a.html

First U.S.-Mexico border fence sees fewer migrants, more violence

11:32 AM CDT on Saturday, September 13, 2008
Associated Press

TIJUANA, Mexico � There is a moment each evening, as the sun melts into the Pacific, when Colonia Libertad is at peace.


The dimming light blurs the hilltop slum's rough edges, camouflaging piles of trash in long shadows and making it difficult to tell that some of the tightly packed homes clinging to vertical canyonsides are made of old packing crates and cast-off plastic tarps.


The stadium lighting that towers over the corrugated metal wall marking the U.S.-Mexico border is dark, permitting residents a bird's eye view of Tijuana, where lights are blinking on, blanketing hills that lead toward the ocean. Farther inland, the dark shadows of mountains are sketched across the sky.


There are no helicopters reverberating overhead, no drone of all-terrain vehicles. Even the bony guard dogs chained outside their homes respect the silence. Fathers stroll lazily behind children who steer beat-up tricycles along the rutted dirt paths that serve as streets.


For a moment, residents are reminded of what it was like before the wall, when children ducked under a barbed wire fence to play soccer in U.S. territory and returned home for dinner. When smuggling meant giving directions to migrants who simply outran border agents and melted into the crowds of tourists.


But it is only a moment.


The floodlights click on, bathing the neighborhood in a blinding light. The helicopters return, clattering past. And the smugglers arrive with their ladders and blow torches and groups of people desperate to escape a fate similar to the one residents of Colonia Libertad long ago accepted.


As the U.S. government battles environmentalists and residents to build hundreds more miles of fencing along the 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border, both sides would be well served to take a long look at Colonia Libertad -- Freedom Neighborhood.


In the early 1990s, Colonia Libertad became one of the first places to coexist with the recycled, corrugated-iron barrier that has become a symbol of the conflicted relationship between a first-world superpower and the developing nation that lives in its shadow.


The fence didn't stop the migrants. It didn't stop the drugs. It merely pared down the hopeful crowds that used to flood San Diego hillsides, diverted the drugs underground and into the mountains, and helped create a ruthless smuggling industry dedicated to beating the U.S. Border Patrol at its own game.


But that's not to say the sections of fence that have been built haven't been successful. The barriers, combined with high-tech security measures such as surveillance cameras and ground sensors, have made getting into the U.S. extremely difficult. And as security has increased in recent years, the number of people trying to cross has fallen dramatically.


The downside, residents on both sides say, is that the border has become a violent battleground, shattering a shared American and Mexican history that is blind to things such as fences and borders.


___


Once, the only barrier between Colonia Libertad and San Diego was a barbed-wire fence.


Residents would squeeze between its rusty spikes, escaping the crowded barrio for the open hillsides of U.S. territory. Adults roasted meat in barbecue pits while children ran free.


"It used to be fun, because we'd cross and play soccer or baseball or volleyball," says Jaime Boites, 35, whose home is steps from the border. "Nobody cared. When we were done, we'd just go back to our houses in Mexico."


U.S. Border Patrol agents left the picnickers alone. Sometimes they even strolled over and shared a taco.


They were more concerned with the other side of Colonia Libertad, the smugglers who used the neighborhood as a staging ground for vanloads of people or drugs or some other kind of contraband that the gringos legally didn't want but were always willing to pay for.


It wasn't hard to get to the United States, which had few agents and little security. Sometimes migrants gathered at the border in large groups to rush past outnumbered guards, like a crude game of sharks and minnows. Others packed into vans that raced drugs or people across the hills.


"Back then, there used to be vans going through U.S. territory, just like nothing," Boites says. "Vans full of people, any time of day."


Boites was 8 when one van struck and killed a 5-year-old girl.


That was the main reason the wall went up: to stop the vehicles.


When the first stretch of wall went up, made of material recycled from landing strips left over from Vietnam, Boites was a teenager living in San Diego. Back at his family home, the fence cut off the view of the United States.


Little changed in Colonia Libertad. Smugglers cut holes in the fence and drove their vans through. Migrants scrambled over the wall, using the corrugated ridges like the steps of a ladder.


But to people in Colonia Libertad, it was still a slap in the face, proof the gringos weren't willing to acknowledge that they needed Mexicans to cut their lawns and take care of their kids.


"Sometimes we get the feeling that we aren't wanted over there," Boites says, gazing at the graffiti-covered wall.


Americans saw the fence as a necessity because millions of undocumented workers and tons of illegal drugs were streaming into their cities.


But it had consequences they never intended: Seasonal workers unable to easily go back and forth built permanent lives north of the border. Migrants were pushed into the searing desert of Arizona, and more than 1,600 have died, often of thirst and exposure.


In Tijuana, the United States kept increasing security, using the area to test new anti-smuggling methods and expanding the ones that worked. It added a second layer of fencing at some points, redesigning each barrier to make it more difficult to overcome.


Smugglers responded by charging migrants more money and becoming more violent. They used slingshots to launch rocks, bottles, nail-studded planks, Molotov cocktails. Sometimes they wanted to hurt border agents, but mostly they were trying to create diversions while they moved people or drugs across at another point.


Since last October, there have been 340 assaults on Border Patrol agents patrolling the California border. The Border Patrol says it doesn't know whether any agents were injured in those attacks.


The response, however, has taken a toll. In 2005, an 18-year-old Mexican boy was fatally shot by the Border Patrol. In August, a Mexican man was shot and wounded by an agent trying to disperse a group of rock throwers at a dry, concrete-lined gulley near Colonia Libertad.


During one assault, agents fired pepper and tear gas across the border into Colonia Libertad.


In a ramshackle house that uses the border fence as its back wall, Esther Arias' eyes began to water, her throat burned and she couldn't catch her breath. Her 3-week-old grandson screamed in pain, confused by the air that singed his tiny lungs.


A tear gas canister punched a hole in her father's house across the street and landed on the floor.


___


"Soccer field" is written on the U.S. side of the fence facing Colonia Libertad.


That's the only reminder that Mexican children once played here. Now it's a marker for the Border Patrol.


High-powered cameras look in every direction from atop towering poles. Ground sensors let agents know when someone is moving through the fields.


"We've got bodies," a voice crackles over James Jacques' walkie-talkie.


In the distance, a few people dressed in black jump from lightweight handmade ladders they used to scale the second layer of fencing. They run into a ditch, but agents catch them within seconds. A van pulls up, and they are loaded inside to be driven back to Mexico.


Those are the easy ones. Jacques says many smugglers have become violent, once stringing a nearly invisible wire across a path to knock agents off all-terrain vehicles. One took out a camera tower with a shotgun.


"Before, they wouldn't fight back if caught," Jacques says. "Now it's military-style tactics."


He defends the use of tear gas and pepper balls, saying the alternative is worse.


Studying Colonia Libertad through binoculars, Jacques sees not a neighborhood of families, but a smugglers' den.


"That's a lookout tower," he says, pointing to a small room built on top of a house. "You'll see them all along the border."


Drug smugglers have gotten more sophisticated as well. They have built more than two dozen tunnels under the border since 1994. One opened into a warehouse steps from the border, and drug dealers posing as businessmen quietly shipped their wares across the U.S. until agents shut them down.


Other drug runners have taken to the mountains, using blowtorches to cut large doors in the fence and then taking four-wheel-drive vehicles across the rugged terrain.


In one of the new subdivisions carpeting the hills north of the border, Alma Beltran, 42, turns her sport utility Volvo into her two-car garage and carries groceries into the kitchen for dinner.


She and her husband, both Mexicans, own a factory that makes packaging labels in the beach resort of Ensenada, but they moved to the U.S. a few years ago so that their daughter could go to American schools and speak fluent English.


But they didn't go far: Their home is two miles from the border.


"If we go on a walk -- and we like to go on walks -- every time we try to do that, we are stopped by border patrollers," Beltran says. "They are always pleasant and say, 'Ma'am, you shouldn't be walking here. It is dangerous."'


Beltran says she is polite, but rarely turns back. Having grown up in both Mexico City and the U.S., she's not frightened by the increased security in the U.S. or the violence in Mexico.


"It's the same problem: People trying to cross. Agents chasing people home," she says. "There's nothing new."


Her neighborhood is a sprawling collection of cavernous terra-cotta homes that sell for double what most Mexicans will make in a lifetime. Spanish is the predominant language, and most of her neighbors are upper-class Mexicans driven north by a wave of kidnappings and drug violence south of the border.


But even in the carefully groomed suburbs of San Diego, it is impossible to escape Mexico. Beltran has only to look out her kitchen window to be reminded that she is caught between two worlds.


As she makes dinner, she can see the hillsides worn bald by the Border Patrol, the fences dividing the San Diego suburbs' neat grid from the jumbled streets of Tijuana. In the distance, the stadium lights flooding Colonia Libertad flicker on.

HMmmmm, fresh and encouraging breeze blows through, and sometimes from directions least expected.

That quaffed, ....and a good bottle of stout opened in reverance,.....

LET'S GET BACK DOWN TO BUSINESS

2W asks,

" Has the fabric of society south of the boarder torn in a suddenly more ominous way, or did this act just catch the headlines more that the rest? "

My call is that the fabric's a long way from torn

severely frazzled,....? yes, emphatically so

Dirty,......? Yes,..per above

Finished, ready to discard,....emphatically ....NO

The stregnth and endurance that's been woven into the National "Fabric" that we call Mexico today was garnered no more easily than ours.

History is not really the issue / subject here,......we're here, at a place ( smells bad),...and trying to move on.

Anyoone thinkin' that this current situation is "Inevitable",...or " Unshakable",.....or "Unchangeable" and espouses that needs to be put in Pampers,.....and bottle fed.

I'm not trying to marginalise the THREATS,....
Those charged with minimizing these threats have FAILED,.....miserably,...that's all.

Protecting their rice bowl should not be our obsession, I'd just soon pizz in it.

....they have FAILED.

I'd sure like to see RoninPhx throw in on this, too,......he's got a perspective that this coonazz lacks,....me having no more than 12 years here,...on the line.

If we were to make all of the right moves ,....now, or, at least pretty quick, .....I'm thinkin' that the Nation of Mexico could be our strongest ally.

...........after "Proccessing" a signifigant # for "Removal"

Anyone coming into this wild and lawless thread, cold, is encouraged to read BACK,...from here. SKIP the loony toon political rants,....READ the articles posted daily for ( what,... months now ?),...

put up your thoughts,...interactive dialogue,......etc.

GTC

I think Sarah Paulin riding moose back patrols along some of the border with her tricked out AR would build a ground swell of support <only half kidding>

I know I hunger for leadership that shows clear... honest..... straight forward.... what is in the American peoples best interest.... priorities.

I am asking this politely and honestly, what has McCain and Palin stated about the border?? Have either one of them made a comment as to what they intend to do with the situation??

I know that many think i am trying to bust out McCain, but i am just asking those hard questions?? Many here don't like to have those questions asked, it's just easier to go with the flow.

You have a senior statesman from a state that has major issues regarding an unsecure border. I hear his commercials that he's taken on the big drug companies etc. I don't hear any commercials that he's fought to help secure the border, or that it's one of his future goals.

I know it gives you a case of the butt, it just seems to me, all the years that this senior statesman has been in office, it doesn't seem like it's been at the top of his "to do" list.

I am sorry that it pisses you off, but as a US Senator elected by the citizens of that state, the issues of that state should come first, before the issues of the rest of the US and the world.

You take care of the folks who sent you to DC daily, not every four years. I guess my state is just lucky, our two US Senators and our US Rep's have a TN. first attitude.

What has that senior statesman done to help correct the border issue?? Has he lobbied for more USBP personnel and equipment??

You mention that you have communication issues, there's grants and etc. for commo. repeaters etc. under Homeland Sec. that will not only be useful to USBP, but local agencies also. To win a war, and that's what it sounds like your in, you need to have the ability to shoot, move, and communicate.

Has he used his influence to help get those things in his home state??

Has he lobbied to expedite building of a fence??

If he has done things, please show me examples, if he hasn't the citizens in the border states need to make it clear as to what their desires are. This either through their US Rep's/Senators or directly through other means.

Photo of the day,.....and the 150 per dium is understatement

just click on the ,......

Link: http://www.americanpatrol.com/ABP/PHOTO-OF-THE-DAY/2008/ARCHIVE/080914.html

Is there a loophole whereby this ego-Maniac can run with Obamist ?

They'd be an unbeatable team, one as bright as the other is cute.

This SOB really cheeese me of,....given the shape Old Mex. is in, at this time......due in latge part to his neglect

They're still FLOCKING to listen,...our MSM, and all the "Raza" types,......sitting, sagely nodding at his verbal diareha.

Link: http://americajr.com/news/vicentefox0912.html

Vicente Fox Favors a North American Union with a Common Currency and Criticizes U.S. Immigration Policy



PHOTO BY JASON RZUCIDLO / �AMERICAJR.com

Former Mexican President Vicente Fox

by Jason Rzucidlo
americajramericajr.com




DETROIT � Former Mexican President Vicente Fox criticized the U.S. immigration policy and outlined his plan for a North American Union on Friday in Detroit. He addressed a crowd of 1,500 during the kickoff of the second season Wayne State University's Forum on Contemporary Issues in Society (FOCIS). The speech was followed by a book-signing session.

"All you United States citizens know you have the capacity, the talent to keep leading this world," said Vicente Fox at the FOCIS forum. "You know that not only opening markets and trading is good for everybody. Building bridges of understanding is much better than building walls."

The former Mexican president spoke about the bad economy and jobs that are going overseas.

"Some people question NAFTA today," he said. "This part of the region is a lot of question going on. A lot of worries. Whether it's NAFTA, which has made people and families to lose their jobs. Or if its NAFTA which has been responsible for the reduction of income from some people in this region.

"Manufacturing is the most competitive sector of the economy. We in Mexico have the same problem. We're facing the same challenge. Our garment, textile industry is close to going broke. It's closing doors most of the companies. Today are migrating to Guatemala, Belize or El Salvador or they going to China, or Vietnam or Indonesia."

He said the unemployment rate in Mexico is only 4.5 percent. Along the border, there is no unemployment according to Fox. He said the country is the 7th largest trading partner in the world. Over $250 million worth of U.S. products are imported to Mexico each year.

"I am not in favor of open borders," he stressed. "I am in favor of an orderly flow of people, regulated and controlled only as much as needed.

Fox called for a North American Union between the U.S., Canada and Mexico similar to the group of countries that make up the European Union.

"What would be better for this nation then having a successful neighbor?" he questioned. "Why don't we work together to make that dream happen? That dream happened in Europe. Today, Europe is what it is because of that Marshall Plan. They decided to work together. On a destroyed Europe right after second World War, the leaders came and had a vision to build up the union. The European Union. They started working step-by-step. It's been a 60-year process.

"I'm not saying we copy the European model, would not be accepted here. The mechanism that worked for the union in Europe is very simple. Ever nation provides 2 percent of their gross product. That cohesive fund goes invested on the underdeveloped regions of Europe. In Europe, you don't have to pay to go to public universities, not one cent.

"If we would decide, Mexico, United States and Canada to build that kind of future. So that instead of building walls and investing money of the U.S. taxpayer in that wall, we would invest in productivity, in education, in protecting the environment. Through those cohesive funds. There are answers to our problems."

Fox also spoke about international relations and the history of Mexico.

"Today, many people ask why Latin America is lagging behind," said the former president. "The very sad story is we spend the whole 20th century most every one nation in Latin America in hands of dictators. Many regimes. Totally authoritarian. We did not enjoy freedom or democracy during the 20th century."

In reference to America, he said: "Look at this great nation. This leading nation in the world. Has enjoyed democracy for 200 years. With people and talent coming from all over the world. This is a nation of immigrants. Most everyone here in this nation sooner or later has a background of migration."

"Finally, we Latin Americans, we Mexicans decided to get rid of dictators," Fox said. "Late, but we did it at the end of the century. In the '90s, in the '80s. We got rid of all of them. In the case of Mexico, those 72 years of nationalism of barriers and walls of not considering globalization and we paid the price for those 72 years.

"The leader of this nation would tell us, would teach us. Open your markets, compete in open markets, open your economies so that foreign investment comes into your nation. We accepted the challenge. We made economic reforms, very big. Especially for the poor. They pay the price of economic reforms. Number one lesson that democracy works and freedom works. People develop all its capacities on that kind of environment."

A student from Detroit's Cesar Chavez High School asked Mr. Fox if Mexico should become the 51st U.S. state. He replied: "I admire this great nation. I feel part of it. But I love my Mexico. It would not put it in the hands of anybody or any foreign nation."

One man asked the former Mexican president if he has an implanted microchip in his arm. A 2004 MSNBC story indicated that 160 Mexican officials have received chip implants in their arms to gain access to restricted areas inside the attorney general's headquarters. Security grabbed the microphone from the man who flashed a copy of the article as the media took pictures.

Fox didn't have to response to this question. However, he agreed to answer it anyway."There is a lot of saying in Mexico that some people because of kidnapping, has been using chips to protect themselves. Right now, the situation in Mexico is very violent. We're undergoing a war. A war of Presidente Calderon's government against cartels, against organized crime, drug traffickers. A lot of people is being killed everyday. The violation of human rights has to end."

Fox released a book, Revolution of Hope: The Life, Faith and Dreams of a Mexican President, co-written with political consultant Rob Allyn in 2007. The book was only released in English and in the United States. It was a way for the former Mexican president to address his views. He signed autographs after his speech for those who purchased his book at the forum.

Mr. Fox was the president of Mexico from 2000 to 2006. Previously, he was the governor of his native Guanajuato state in 1995. Fox received a degree in business administration from Ibero-American University in Mexico City. In 1964, he worked for Coca Cola Mexico and later became its president.

A few minutes into the speech by the former president, his cell phone rang. Mr. Fox took out his phone, opened it and said, "Is that mine? Yeah, it's Mexican music." He chuckled, handed his phone to his wife and the speech went on.

Lotsa' confusion on "Missing Fence",....and typos in Newspaper re: Ms. La Rocha's report are not helping,......now along comes more typo error in this ABP report.

...........We heard 190 miles claimed finished, initially versus 108 actually in place.

I'm sure that there'll be clarity on this soon,.....NOT!


Phantom Fence
$600 Million of Protection is Missing

American Patrol Report-- September 15

A dispute has arisen over the amount of border fence that the Department of Homeland Security has constructed. In yesterday's Sierra Vista Herald, Angela de Rocha of the office of public affairs for U.S. Customs and Border Protection in Washington, D.C. claimed that, as of Aug. 29, a total 190 miles of border pedestrian fence had been constructed under the Secure Border Initiative. There is a serious dispute over this number and the difference amounts to more than $600 million dollars of construction costs.
According to a recent report by the Governmental Accountability Office (GAO), as of Aug. 22, the Secure Border Initiative had constructed 109 miles of pedestrian fence

"The GAO report is unambiguous," said Glenn Spencer of American Border Patrol, "Table 3 of the report clearly states that as of 8/22/08 there were 109 �Miles deployed through SBI as of 8/22/08' of pedestrian fence. This is totally consistent with what we have found." An aerial survey by American Border Patrol found that, as of July 29, 108 miles of had been constructed by DHS's Strategic Border Initiative.

The cost of constructing the border fence has skyrocketed, according to the GAO, and is now set at about $7.5 million per mile. The difference between GAO and ABP fence miles and that of the DHS amounts to 81 miles, or $608 million.

It was recently disclosed that the DHS has run out of money for the border fence project. "Is this a phantom fence? How can they not know that $600 million dollars of fence was not constructed?" Spencer said. "The history of the DHS border effort tells me that DHS Secretary Chertoff is not interested in securing the border and has allowed Customs and Border Protection to intentionally burn up billions of dollars on silliness and very little on building a fence," he added.

More news on invisible fencing, conflicting numbers

And for some additional wierdness, the Sierra Club sprinkled on top,.................No denying that the points they bring up are disturbing on several different levels, though. The 6 minute clip is worth viewing.

If our local paper leaned any further left,....it would be horizontal

GTC

http://www.svherald.com/articles/2008/09/14/news/doc48ccb33c00187603867557.txt

Are feds on track on fence?
Local group says its separate survey shows project falls short
By Jonathon Shacat
Herald/Review

Published on Sunday, September 14, 2008

BISBEE � The U.S. Department of Homeland Security claims that more than half of the fencing called for in the Secure Fence Act of 2006 has been built along the U.S.-Mexico border.

But a local border watch group is claiming those figures are not accurate.
Advertisement




Construction workers erect fencing along the U.S.-Mexican border near Palominas. (Ed Honda-Herald/Review)




(Use arrows above to view more photos) The U.S. government is building the fence in an effort to make the border more secure and help decrease illegal immigration.

As of Aug. 29, a total of more than 344 miles of fencing had been constructed under the Secure Border Initiative program, including 190 miles of pedestrian fence and more than 154 miles of vehicle fence.

In other words, more than half of the proposed 670 miles is finished, according to Angela de Rocha, office of public affairs for U.S. Customs and Border Protection under the Department of Homeland Security in Washington, D.C.

�The completed fence is mainly in New Mexico, Arizona and California, with construction under way in Texas,� she states in an e-mail to the Herald/Review. �I think the numbers are actually a little higher, in that we have completed some segments since August 29, but this is the official mileage count.�

Glenn Spencer, president of American Border Patrol, a non-governmental organization that performs aerial surveys of fence construction, said the figures supplied by the Department of Homeland Security are wrong.

His group�s data shows that only 108 miles of fence have been built so far, in addition to about 161 miles of vehicle barriers, according to www.americanpatrol.com.

An amendment to the Secure Fence Act in December 2007 requires the government to complete 340 miles of fencing by Dec. 31. But survey data recently released by American Border Patrol shows that only 23 miles were added since April, or about five miles per month. At that rate of construction, Spencer said, �It seems most likely that they will fall far short.�

He also responded to reports that the Bush administration needs an additional $400 million to finish the border fence this year. He criticized officials for playing games with the budget �in order to make sure they could stop the fence now before it was discovered they had no plans to do the job anyway.�

Fence construction recently started on the west side of the San Pedro River. Spencer said the new fence design there is a major improvement compared to much of the fencing that has been built so far.

�For most of the Naco Border Patrol area, there is a mesh-type fence that is about 13 feet tall,� he said during an interview. �What they are installing now, west of the river, is 18 feet tall and it is made of steel beams with a steep plate at the top. It is more effective because number one, it is taller, and number two, it doesn�t have mesh where you can put in screwdrivers and climb up the fence.�

But, Spencer stressed, even though the new fence design is improved, the government needs to build two layers of it. That is, one fence and then another fence built parallel to it. With only a single layer, it is too easy to place items, such as tires or a ladder, against the fence and use them to climb over, he added.

Richard Hodges, who owns a ranch near Bisbee Junction, said he is pleased with a section of border fence the government built along his property earlier this year. Previously, only a barbed wire fence existed there.

The new fence there is made with steel poles that stand about 13 feet tall. Hodges said he thinks this style of fencing is far better than the mesh-type fencing that has been built in other areas.

�From what I have seen, it is effective,� Hodges said.

Spencer, on the other hand, said he does not think the fence near the Hodges ranch is effective.

Hodges acknowledged �it would be possible for someone wearing tennis shoes to tie their feet together, shimmy up the round poles of the fence, swing over the top and shimmy down the other side.�

�With the square tubing, you are not supposed to be able to do that,� Hodges added. �I suppose that is probably true in theory, but I don�t know how many people could do that. I couldn�t.�

The Arizona Sierra Club, a grass-roots environmental organization, is not pleased with the current construction of border fence near the San Pedro River.

�They have already completed the wall on the east side of the bank. Now that they are building the wall on the west side of the bank, it is just going to further inhibit wildlife from being able to use that area to cross back and forth across the border,� said Sean Sullivan, spokesman for the group.

He added that border fence construction also has caused flooding problems recently in Nogales and in the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument.

Sullivan said the fencing does not have the desired effect of stopping illegal immigration. Rather, it is simply moving illegal immigrants to another area to cross the border.

The Sierra Club recently finished a documentary about border wall construction from California to Texas. The film is intended to urge people to tell representatives to repeal Section 102 of the Real ID Act, which is how the government is able to move forward with construction without adhering to laws.

A screening of the film will take place in Tucson on Saturday. DVDs are available. For information, visit www.arizona.sierraclub.org/border. To view a six-minute version, click on �border film.�

Rough Town,....Nogales,

....always has been.

THIS ,.....is different,......a new definition of "Haywire"


Link: http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/border/257524

News Elsewhere
Nogales is the prize in drug cartels' war
Rival gangs fight for corridor, with residents in crossfire
By Brady McCombs
Arizona Daily Star
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 09.14.2008
advertisementNOGALES, SONORA � Officer Lamberto Ruiz climbs into his police truck and looks through a spiderweb of cracks fanning out from a bullet hole in his windshield.
There's another bullet hole in the plastic lining of the driver-side door.
"They shot at an officer sitting right here and nearly killed him," says Ruiz in Spanish, describing an incident that occurred months earlier.
He starts the truck and, before beginning a patrol shift aimed at combating drug violence, puts his right hand to his forehead and crosses himself.
Just 65 miles south of Tucson, in the border city of Nogales, Sonora, bloodshed fueled by narco-trafficking has reached unprecedented levels � and officials don't know when, or whether, it will slow down.
Violence that used to fill newspapers and airwaves in other parts of Mexico, such as Tijuana and Ciudad Juarez, is now occurring in this border city of nearly 200,000 people: beheadings, execution-style killings, bodies found wrapped in duct tape with messages for rival drug traffickers, shootouts in such public places as bus stops and restaurant parking lots.
Two powerful drug trafficking organizations � the Sinaloa and the Gulf cartels � are engaged in brutal battle for control of the Sonoran-Arizona corridor, the most desired piece of real estate along the U.S.- Mexico border, says Anthony Coulson, Drug Enforcement Administration assistant special agent in charge of the Tucson District Office.
Mexican President Felipe Calder�n's campaign to weaken the cartels by putting the army along known drug-smuggling routes and trying to snuff out corruption has added fuel to the fire, Coulson says.
It disrupts drug smugglers' ability to get their loads across the border, causing panic and uncertainty among drug smugglers, he says.
2008 tally already passes '07
The combustible situation has made killings nearly a semiweekly occurrence in Nogales this year.
The total of 67 premeditated homicides recorded from January through August in the city, most drug-related, averages out to one every four days, figures from the Sonoran government show.
The frequency of the killings increased to one nearly every other day from June through August, when 39 killings occurred.
The deadly 2008 tally in Nogales has already surpassed the 2007 total, 52, and nearly doubled the 2005 total, 35, figures from the Sonoran government show.
"Now we have violent deaths, gunfire from high-powered weapons such as AK-47s, we have crimes where four people die in a single act," says Arturo Ram�rez Camacho, chief of police in Nogales, Sonora, in Spanish. "Obviously, this, well, causes fear among Nogalenses � fear that they are going to find themselves in a shootout."
Traditionally, most of the deceased and injured in drug- related violence have been identified as people involved in the drug-trafficking business.
Though that hasn't changed, Ram�rez says at least four innocent people have been hurt or killed.
There's no evidence that drug traffickers are targeting Mexicans not involved in the trade or U.S. citizens passing through or visiting, Coulson and Ram�rez say. And so far, no gunbattles or chases have spilled over the border into the United States.
Still, that does little to ease the fears of people living in or near the area.
"I have never seen that degree of violence in Nogales, Sonora, and I was born in Nogales, Sonora, and was raised here," says Santa Cruz County Sheriff Tony Estrada. "Never in my life have I seen anything as terrible as what's going on over there."
Murder capital of Sonora
Nogales accounted for more than a quarter of the 230 killings registered in the Mexican state of Sonora this year through August and more than any other city in the state, including Hermosillo, which had tallied the most killings in each of the previous two years, figures show.
On a state level, homicides are slightly behind last year's pace with 230 registered through August, compared with 234 at the same time the year before, Sonoran government numbers show.
On Aug. 30, the Mexican government sent 200 additional state and federal law enforcement officers to Nogales in response to the situation.
Each day, city, state and federal officers mobilize on patrols, set up road checkpoints and stop and search suspicious- looking vehicles.
The goal of the operation is to increase the law-enforcement presence in the city and create deterrence, Ram�rez says.
"We're taking out of circulation anyone who has an arrest warrant, driving an illegal car," says Ram�rez, "so that delinquents aren't on the streets."
The root of the violence comes from a broken agreement between the Gulf and Sinaloan cartels, Coulson says.
The two entered into a quasi-peace agreement following deadly gunfights in May 2007 in Cananea, Sonora, but that lasted only about a year, Coulson says. Since May, they've been engaged in open warfare for the territory.
The corridor is valuable because it remains one of the best ways to get drugs into the United States, with a combination of cities and roads on both sides of the border and the vast expanses in a harsh desert climate that makes it difficult for law enforcement to stop the smugglers.
Even with a slight decrease this year, Arizona accounts for 43 percent of all seized marijuana along the southwestern U.S. border despite having only 13 percent of the nearly 2,000 miles of the border, Coulson says.
Nogales is the epicenter, accounting for 60 percent of all drugs that come into Arizona, he says.
So far, the turf battles have not spilled over into residential areas in Santa Cruz County, Estrada says.
They have, however, seen rip-offs and gunfights in remote canyons and valleys that appear to be related, he says.
Cochise County officials are highly concerned about spill-over, even though nothing has happened, Cochise Sheriff Larry Dever says.
They are most worried about a potential shootout between cartels and police crossing the international line.
"We've made preparations over the years, but the threat is clearly more significant than it has ever been," Dever says.
Dever, Estrada and Coulson agree the violence isn't likely to slow down until one of the cartels seizes control.
"The battle looms large when it comes to those kind of profits," Dever says. "These people are violent, ruthless and will do anything they can to seize control."
Travelers told to be aware
Officials aren't telling Arizonans to stop traveling to Mexico, but they say travelers should be aware of the situation.
"People can come to Mexico, but they just have to be aware and informed that they are going into a country that is having some problems right now," Estrada says.
The U.S. State Department's travel alert regarding violence along the U.S-Mexico border lists Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo and Matamoros as areas of concern but doesn't mention specifically Nogales or any other Sonoran city.
State Department officials declined to comment about the situation, saying only that they are closely monitoring the drug- related violence in Sonora.
The current travel alert expires in October, at which time officials must decide whether to reissue it and whether to revise any of the warnings.
Vendors along Avenida Obregon in downtown Nogales say it's still safe for visitors to come across.
"We take care of the tourists; they are protected" by the Nogales tourist police force, Nora Licon, owner of Curios Licon, says in Spanish. "But, unfortunately, the tourist is poorly informed."
She adds: "The bad people are in the far-reaching parts of the city, not here in downtown."
On Saturday at 1:18 a.m., however, a man was shot and killed at a taco stand on Avenida Obregon.
Level of violence is disputed
Olivia Ainza-Kramer, president of the Nogales-Santa Cruz County Chamber of Commerce, says the increased violence has been exaggerated. It's no different from rashes of killings seen in such other eras as the mid-1970s, she says.
The minimal risks associated with going to Nogales, Sonora, are no different from traveling to Tucson or Phoenix, where gang and criminal activity occur frequently, too, she says.
But residents in Nogales, Sonora, say the danger isn't merely perception, but reality.
At the Estrella Blanca regional bus stop in Nogales, bullet holes remain in the ground where masked gunmen killed a taxi driver and in the concrete wall where they shot at another person.
The incident, which occurred in the early morning of Aug. 16, left two dead and two others wounded. It shook residents who say the bus stop was a safe place frequented by women, children and families.
The violence is the worst cabdriver Juan de Dios says he has seen in his 40 years in Nogales.
De Dios and his wife have stopped going out on weekends with their two children because of the increased violence. They used to go to the movies but now stay in, he says.
"It's not worth the risk because we don't know what could happen," he says. "There is too much violence in the city."
Antonio Martir, who works in a beauty salon in a shopping center where La Soriana supermarket is located, heard gunfire and grenade explosions in the afternoon of Aug. 5 from a chase that went past on the street nearby.
Tension in the air
"People's attitudes are changing," says Martir, 28, in Spanish. "Everyone is tense and feel like something terrible is going to happen. It's empty everywhere; people are not going out because they are afraid something will happen."
The cartels are no longer waging their battles in back alleys or inside homes, Coulson says.
"This is happening out on the street," Coulson says. "You just don't know where the chase is going to go. . . . It's open warfare between them."
E-mails have circulated among residents about what to do if they find themselves stopped by suspected drug traffickers. A radio station told residents about a 10 p.m. curfew.
And rumors have run rampant about threats on a popular movie theater in the Nogales mall, and, perhaps seizing on people's worst fears, about threats on schools.
None of the threats have been real, and there is no curfew, says Ram�rez, the police chief.
"It's not directed at Juan who works in the carwash; it's not about them," Ram�rez says. "We have tried to keep residents informed that this isn't a problem for all the residents, like a terrorist act," he says.
The three-level law-enforcement operation will continue indefinitely in Nogales, Ram�rez says. He credits it with a slowdown of shootouts and murder in the past two weeks.
The cartels have far more resources than the municipal police, making it a necessity to have federal and state police to back them up, he says.
More help could come soon to Mexican law enforcement.
In June, the U.S. Congress approved a $400 million anti-drug aid package known as the Merida Initiative, which authorizes money for equipment or training. The first allotment is to be part of a three-year, $1.4 billion aid plan.
But Mexico is still waiting for the funds as it wages its battle against the criminal organizations.
During his recent shift in the bullet-ridden truck, Officer Ruiz spent nearly 20 minutes trying to find a truck full of federal agents that had become separated because the police force does not have a common radio frequency.
That lack of communication makes it difficult to coordinate and cuts into the efficiency of the operation, he says:
"There is no calm for the residents." .

Regarding the hole in the fence, that the USBP stated wouldn't be repaired until Spring.

Do you know, what was their reason for the delay?

You'ld think they could weld in a temp. fix for now, other then three or four cross bars.

Also, how much do you know about the construction of the fence?

Is the contractor driving the steeltubing into the ground?

Do you know to what depth, to keep the illegals from digging under??

This is ( pun intended) the schidts,

or should I say,......all about the Schidts,........

...or the potential therefor,......



Link: http://weblog.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/20080913-0628-mexico-salmonella.html

Few safeguards for Mexican produce heading north


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By Mark Walsh and Olga R. Rodriguez
ASSOCIATED PRESS

6:28 a.m. September 13, 2008

ALLENDE, Mexico � At the end of a dirt road in northern Mexico, the conveyer belts processing hundreds of tons of vegetables a year for U.S. and Mexican markets are open to the elements, protected only by a corrugated metal roof.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration suspects this packing plant, its warehouse in McAllen, Texas, and a farm in Mexico are among the sources of the United States' largest outbreak of food-borne illness in a decade, which infected at least 1,440 people with a rare form of salmonella.


A plant manager confirmed to The Associated Press that workers handling chili peppers aren't required to separate them according to the sanitary conditions in which they were grown, offering a possible explanation for how such a rare strain of salmonella could have caused such a large outbreak.
The AP has found that while some Mexican producers grow fruits and vegetables under strict sanitary conditions for export to the U.S., many don't � and they can still send their produce across the border easily.

Neither the U.S. nor the Mexican governments impose any safety requirements on farms and processing plants. That includes those using unsanitary conditions � like those at Agricola Zaragoza � and brokers or packing plants that mix export-grade fruits and vegetables with lower-quality produce.

In fact, the only thing a Mexican company needs to do to sell produce to the United States is to register online.

Some Mexican farms and processing plants have high standards of sanitation � and get private companies to certify those standards � so they can sell to U.S. supermarket chains that wouldn't buy from uncertified ones.

But there is no public list of the chains that require sanitary practices, meaning there's no way to know whether the fruit and vegetables in any particular store is certified or not.

The only U.S. government enforcement consists of 625 FDA inspectors who conduct spot checks of both U.S. and foreign produce, reviewing less than 1 percent of all imports. Beyond that, it is entirely up to the supermarkets and restaurants to police their produce.

The best Mexican producers grow crops in fenced-off fields, irrigate them with fresh water and pack them in spotless plants where workers dress in protective gear from head to toe. But there are still plenty of farms with unfenced fields where wildlife can roam freely, and which use untreated water � sometimes laced with sewage.

Salmonella can lurk on the skin of produce or penetrate inside. Cooking kills it, but washing raw produce doesn't always eliminate it, which is why safety experts stress preventing contamination.

Agricola Zaragoza is one of the uncertified plants, manager Emilio Garcia told the AP. He said the packing plant washes produce from both certified and uncertified producers, opening up the possibility for contamination. He refused to give details about his suppliers.

The FDA suspects Mexican jalapeno and serrano chilies processed at Agricola Zaragoza caused the latest outbreak, though it also thinks tomatoes could have played a role. It concedes the ultimate source may never be known.

Cesar Fragoso, president of Mexico's Chili Peppers Growers Association, said most Mexican pepper farms sell their crops to distributors without knowing what country they are bound for. Because of that, he said, few bother to get certification.

In addition, lots of produce passes from distributor to distributor before reaching its final destination, increasing the potential for contamination and making tracing outbreaks much more difficult. Former FDA official William Hubbard said only 10 percent of outbreaks are ever completely resolved.

�It is very common for distributors to receive products from numerous sources, numerous farms and in some cases multiple countries,� Hubbard said. �That's just the way produce moves.�

In the latest contamination case, the U.S. government traced the suspect jalapenos to two farms in the state of Tamaulipas. Both shipped through Agricola Zaragoza in neighboring Nuevo Leon state. Agricola Zaragoza shipped the peppers to its warehouse in McAllen, Texas, where the FDA found the first contaminated jalapeno.

Though usually smaller in scale, such outbreaks are relatively common � at least 3,000 between 1990 and 2006 from FDA-regulated foods, according to the Center for Science in the Public Interest, a nutrition and food safety advocacy group. Those numbers include fruits, vegetables and seafood, and contamination both in the U.S. and abroad.

The cases include a 2004 hepatitis outbreak linked to Mexican green onions that killed four people and sickened 650 in Pennsylvania, and a 2006 nationwide E. coli outbreak that infected about 300 people and killed three and was traced to tainted spinach from California.

The U.S. Senate is considering a bill that would require the FDA to issue regulations for ensuring safer fresh produce. In Mexico, a federal produce safety law was passed in 1994 but analysts say it is rarely enforced. Mexico's Agriculture Department did not respond to a request for an interview.

Kathy Means, a vice president for the U.S. Produce Marketing Associations, said food safety is in the hands of the food industry, with most major produce buyers requiring both U.S. and foreign food producers to have third-party audit programs. However, Means said, not all buyers follow the same rules.

�It's not government-regulated, so it's up to the company to require it,� she said.

At Alfonso Alvarez's fenced-off 15-acre farm in Jalisco state, tomatoes are grown in greenhouses and irrigated with water from a deep well. Workers wear hair nets, gloves and aprons, and signs require them to wash their hands after going to the bathroom.

Alvarez sells its crop to a Canadian company that imports to the U.S. and Canada and has required his farm be certified by a U.S. private company.

�Those of us who want to enter the U.S. market and position our brand know we must meet all those standards, because we also know it will be a profitable business in the long run,� Alvarez said.

He and other Mexican farmers with sanitary farms want the United States to set up a certification program that covers both growers and packing plants.

�Those who grow in open fields will ruin it for those who produce in greenhouses,� Alvarez said, �and that's not fair.�

I'm not from , living in, or currently residing in Colo.

So can only project / speak in metaphor,.....

" 78 years "......?

That's a pretty serious whack,....taxwise,......upkeep and feed,.....

....put more than a few kids through school,...that sum.

Why not just plug him ?

......78 years ,......of breathing, ....and eating......?

...sounds like some sorta' award.



Link: http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_10471132

More charges filed against driver in triple-fatal accident
By Tom McGhee
The Denver Post

Article Last Updated: 09/15/2008 05:14:45 PM MDT


Francis Hernandez, 23, appears in court Thursday to hear the charges against him. (Pool photo )Prosecutors have added child abuse and other charges to the list faced by Francis Hernandez, the driver accused in a triple-fatal accident in Aurora.

Arapahoe County District Attorney Carol Chambers today announced nine new charges on top of those filed last week, saying the case warranted them. The latest charges could add up to 62 years to the 78 that Hernandez, 23, already faces for the original counts.

Hernandez's lawyer, Kallman Elinoff, said Chambers has gone overboard and accused her of pandering to the public's emotions.

"It just fuels the flames of hate against illegal immigrants," Elinoff said.

Immigration officials say Hernandez is a Guatemalan immigrant who is in the country illegally. He has a lengthy arrest record that includes traffic violations, driving without a valid license and failures to appear in court.

Police say Hernandez was driving a 2004 Chevrolet Suburban on Sept. 4 when he ran a red light on South Havana Street and rammed into a Mazda pickup truck. The pickup then hit a Baskin-Robbins store. Two women in the truck, Patricia Guntharp, 49, and Debbie Serecky, 51, were killed, along with Marten Kudlis, 3, who was in the ice-cream shop.

Hernandez was charged Thursday with three counts of vehicular homicide and three counts of leaving the scene of a deadly accident, among others.

The new charges are one count of child abuse resulting in death; one count of child abuse resulting in injury; three counts of third-degree assault; and four counts of leaving the scene of an accident.

Hernandez has a preliminary hearing scheduled for Nov. 10.

News from the "War",.......

.......and young folks headin' home to Mex.

...........Mex. Army taking over LE in Juarez, following "Corruption" investigation.

Link: http://m3report.wordpress.com/2008/...ue-to-the-financial-recession-in-the-us/

Mexico - Noticeable increase in number of young people returning to the state of Michoac�n due to the �financial recession� in the US
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FORMER BORDER PATROL OFFICERS
Visit our website: http://www.nafbpo.org
Foreign News Report

The National Association of Former Border Patrol Officers (NAFBPO) extracts and condenses the material that follows from Mexican and Central and South American on-line media sources on a daily basis. You are free to disseminate this information, but we request that you credit NAFBPO as being the provider.

Saturday 9/13/08



El Universal; Milenio; El Sol de Mexico (all Mexico City); El Porvenir (Monterrey, Nuevo Le�n) 9/13/08
In what is described as �a massive execution without precedent,� 24 bodies were found Friday evening in a wooded park area known as La Marquesa near Mexico City. On the roadway nearby, written with spray paint was the message, �This is the fight.� The victims are believed to be those abducted in Arcelia, Guerrero a week ago and showed signs of �severe torture,� hands and feet tied, blindfolded and each with the coup de grace shot to the head. They were all males 25 to 35 years of age. The federal Attorney General, Eduardo Medina Mora, said there is no evidence that the yet unidentified victims are military or police and preliminary investigations point to the massacre being related to drug cartel battles. Photo relates.



�������-
El Sol de M�xico (Mexico City) 9/14/08


Although there are no precise numbers, in the past few months there has been a noticeable increase in young people returning to the state of Michoac�n due to the �financial recession� in the US. �Among the younger population there is a tendency toward repatriation and a cessation of departures to the neighboring country to the north,� said the state migrant secretary. The decision to return to their homes is attributed to several factors, among them the present unemployment in the US, that minimum wages are not increasing, and because of the �recession.� Another factors cited are the �anti-immigrant policies� on the borders as well as those being applied at this time requiring that an undocumented seeking employment must show legal status in the US. For these reasons, the state secretary recommends the people not to leave in search of job opportunities in the US since they will waste their lives on the road without a guarantee of a better future.
�������
La Prensa Grafica (San Salvador, El Salv.) , Prensa Libre (Guatemala City, Guatemala) 9/13/08

�El Salvador, Guatemala, Colombia, Jamaica & South Africa head the list of countries with the highest quantity of violent crimes taking place each year, according to an international study by the UN Development Program and the Small Arms Survey organization based in Geneva.�
According to police and government attorney figures, El Salvador has an average of nine murders daily.
The document pointed out that every year more people die in all the world because of violent crime than due to war, and that the resulting economic losses fluctuate between 95 and 163 billion U.S. dollars yearly.
����-

El Tiempo (Bogota, Colombia) 9/13/08

Two thousand 194 kilograms of �high purity� cocaine were seized by Colombian military from a seaside cove at El Charco, Narino State, in the southwestern corner of Colombia. The men guarding the drug fired at the military and then fled into the dense coastal jungle. More than 54 metric tons of cocaine have been seized so far this year by Colombian military.
����-

El Comercio (Lima, Peru) 9/13/08

274 subjects have been arrested at Lima�s Airport so far this year while attempting to leave that country and transporting cocaine. Peruvians, Spaniards, Dutch, Mexicans, Portuguese and South Africans head the list of nationalities arrested. In 2007, the amount of cocaine seized at that airport was 3,919 kilos (a bit over 8,620 pounds)
��������



Sunday 9/14/08




La Hora (Guatemala City) 9/14/08


A rather long article titled �Los Zetas, seeking control of Guatemalan territory,� makes several points to support the probability. It first points out that Mexico is the major route to the US for narcotics traffic, that the present conditions require the cartels to expand operations to more favorable areas, and that Guatemala is the strategic location to serve that purpose. Guatemala borders most of Mexico�s southern border and from there, offers routes by land and sea. Guatemala�s meager control over its borders and the jungle condition of the border with Mexico contribute to making it ideal for narcotrafficking. The article describes Los Zetas as a paramilitary criminal cartel in Mexico and that evidence supports they are increasing power in Guatemala.
�������


Monday 9/15/08


a.b.c.; Milenio (both Mexico City) and El Informador (Guadalajara, Jalisco) 9/15/08


Twelve people have been arrested in Arcelia, Guerrero on suspicion of involvement in the multiple murders of the 24 bodies found last Friday evening in a wooded park near Mexico City. The group, eleven males and one female, was arrested at a home in Arcelia by a task force of military and Federal Police. There remains much speculation about the factors leading to the murders. At present it is suspected that it may be a turf war between �La Familia� and �Los Zetas,� both criminal enforcer groups. State of M�xico officials confirmed that five of the murder victims have been identified as having links to a group called �Los Pelones� in the service of Joaqu�n �El Chapo� Guzm�n.
�������


El Norte (Cd. Ju�rez, Chihuahua) 9/15/08


Ciudad Ju�rez mayor, Jos� Reyes Ferriz has given his department instructions to prepare for the dismissal of at least 400 city police who, by week�s end, will be personally notified about the results of �examinations of trust� carried out by the Federal Secretary of Public Safety (SSPF). Due to the fact that there are insufficient reserves to fill the anticipated vacancies, the Army will fill in for the present time.
�������


Excelsior (Mexico City) 9/15/08


Five ex-federal agents have been formally ordered held for trial, accused of being part of the Beltr�n Leyva crime organization. The five ex-feds are specifically charged with kidnapping and homicides.
�������
-end of report-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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".� Another factors cited are the �anti-immigrant policies� on the borders as well as those being applied at this time requiring that an undocumented seeking employment must show legal status in the US. For these reasons, the state secretary recommends the people not to leave in search of job opportunities in the US since they will waste their lives on the road without a guarantee of a better future."

That's interesting in that there may be some impact on illegal immigration from efforts on this side of the border.

Adios,...and Semper Fi

......Avoid Mexico dittos,

Moist eyes here,......

Link: http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_10479969

U.S. Marine Reservist found shot, killed in Ju�rez
By Adriana M. Chavez / El Paso Times
Article Launched: 09/16/2008 05:22:26 PM MDT


EL PASO - A 20-year-old U.S. Marine Reservist from El Paso was found shot and killed in Ju�rez last week, possibly at the hands of police there, his family said Tuesday.
Lance Corp. Gustavo Zubia-Lopez, a 2006 Canutillo High School graduate, was beaten, shot and killed Sept. 10 after a minor fender bender with a police vehicle, Zubia-Lopez's mother, Ernestina Rodriguez, said Tuesday, hours after she buried her son at Mount Carmel Cemetery. Victor Hugo Delgado, the husband of Zubia-Lopez's cousin, was also shot and killed.

"Nobody in Ju�rez wants to help me" find answers, Rodriguez said at her Northeast El Paso home.

Rodriguez said her son had gone to Ju�rez that day to get the brakes on his truck fixed. He and Delgado were last seen at about 10 p.m. after Zubia-Lopez struck a police vehicle. Rodriguez said police initially let her son and Delgado go, but a few minutes later the two were surrounded by at least four police cars and taken into custody.

Rodriguez learned about her son the next day when she was watching a Ju�rez TV station's news cast and recognized the clothes on a body wrapped in a white sheet during a report on two bodies found on a Ju�rez street.

Adriana M. Ch�vez may be reached at achavezelpasotimes.com; 546-6117.

You've been advised,....by some ( un named) to consider this "Just the way things are"

...and to accept this as "Status Quo",......

I'm thinkin' that sorting this out is nowhere's near as hard to do as what some make out..........albeit risky.

Caution :......Those wishing to die in bed need not apply

Link: http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080916/NEWS01/809160350

Six indicted in killings of DSU students
Proceedings took a year to upgrade juveniles to adults
By SAMANTHA HENRY � Associated Press � September 16, 2008

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Buzz up! NEWARK, N.J. -- Three men and three teenagers were indicted Monday on murder and other charges for the execution-style slayings of three Delaware State University students last year.


The grand jury charged all six suspects, who have reputed links to the MS-13 street gang, with murder, attempted murder, robbery and weapons offenses related to the Aug. 4, 2007, killings.

Essex County Prosecutor Paula Dow said the indictments took a year because charges against the three teens were upgraded from juvenile to adult court, and because multiple agencies worked together to make sure the case was airtight.

Those indicted were Rodolfo Godinez, 25; his 17-year-old brother, Alexander Alfaro; Jose Lachira Carranza, 29; Melvin Jovel, 19; Shahid Baskerville, 16; and Gerardo Gomez, 16. Baskerville and Gomez were both 15 at the time of the killings.

The six suspects are accused of killing Iofemi Hightower, Terrance Aeriel and Dashon Harvey. The three were college students hanging out behind the Mount Vernon School when they were killed. Harvey and Aeriel were both DSU students and Hightower was an incoming freshman.

The DSU community experienced more than its fair share of tragedy last year. A month after the shootings in Newark, two students were injured in a shooting on campus. One of those students, freshman Shalita Middleton, later died from her injuries.

Dow said robbery and gang involvement were both elements of the Newark case, but declined to say what police believe to be the primary motive. She also said illegal guns -- such as the one used in this crime -- continue to plague Newark streets.

"This is an important case for us, and we're doing it slowly, but we're doing it the right way," Dow said.

If convicted, Dow said the suspects face multiple life sentences.

Carranza and Baskerville also are charged with sexually assaulting a fourth victim who survived. The woman suffered memory lapses from her injuries and is currently in protective custody, Dow said.

The woman's identity had been disclosed before the sexual assault charges were made, but The News Journal is no longer naming her because its policy is to not identify alleged victims in sex assault cases.

The killings shook Newark and spurred a series of reforms including the installation of surveillance cameras in some areas and penalties for gun owners who fail to report lost or stolen weapons.

The outcry over Carranza, an immigrant in the country illegally who was out on bail at the time of the killings despite facing separate assault and child rape charges, led to a directive from the state attorney general that revamped bail policies for those in the country illegally.

The killings also jump-started a project to put surveillance cameras in high-crime neighborhoods in Newark. About $2 million was raised in the weeks after the killings, and the first cameras were in place by September. More than 100 had been installed by the end of June, and police have credited them with cutting down on violent crime.

Last month, the families of the victims filed a lawsuit against the Newark school district that claimed the Mount Vernon School failed to provide adequate security in a rear courtyard where the victims were killed.

Staff reporter Rachel Kipp contributed to this story.

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nay91853 wrote:

I TRULY HOPE THESE MURDERS ROT IN JAIL. WHAT THEY DID TO THESE INNOCENT STUDENTS WAS TERRIBLE. MY CONDOLENCES GO OUT TO THE FAMILIES OF THE VICTIMS.
9/16/2008 11:11:52 PM I TRULY HOPE THESE MURDERS ROT IN JAIL. WHAT THEY DID TO THESE INNOCENT STUDENTS WAS TERRIBLE. MY CONDOLENCES GO OUT TO THE FAMILIES OF THE VICTIMS. nay91853
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DiamondzDiva wrote:

I have a HUGE QUESTION , well a few actually , how low was this scum illegals bail for assault AND rape and why was he even granted a bail? So he could be on the run again? I mean what in the hell was NJ thinking bout when they allowed him to post bail.........I didn't know a rape was that low of a bail.. CRAZYYYYYYY
9/16/2008 10:54:39 PM I have a HUGE QUESTION , well a few actually , how low was this scum illegals bail for assault AND rape and why was he even granted a bail? So he could be on the run again? I mean what in the hell was NJ thinking bout when they allowed him to post bail.........I didn't know a rape was that low of a bail.. CRAZYYYYYYY DiamondzDiva
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Radar7 wrote:

Replying to itsgdbngfrst:

Yeah, what YOU said!
Horrible stuff. Truly horrible. But, why are we so quick to jump on the minority bashing when they commit a crime, but no one seems to do that to the numerous sick white people out there? I've known people from many cultures, backgrounds, countries, ethnicities, etc., and in MY experience, the craziest, sickest people I'VE met have been WHITE. Oh, excuse me, CAUCASIAN. Really aren't any TRUE white people, unless you count albinos. But we're not talking about them, now, are we?
Ugh.
OBAMA 08!


Not all Caucasians are White. That's a myth.

9/16/2008 10:19:57 PM <p class="replyingto">Replying to <span class="author">itsgdbngfrst</span>:</p><blockquote>Yeah, what YOU said!<br />Horrible stuff. Truly horrible. But, why are we so quick to jump on the minority bashing when they commit a crime, but no one seems to do that to the numerous sick white people out there? I've known people from many cultures, backgrounds, countries, ethnicities, etc., and in MY experience, the craziest, sickest people I'VE met have been WHITE. Oh, excuse me, CAUCASIAN. Really aren't any TRUE white people, unless you count albinos. But we're not talking about them, now, are we?<br />Ugh. <br />OBAMA 08!</blockquote><br /><br />Not all Caucasians are White. That's a myth.<br /> Radar7
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considerthis wrote:

How about a public execution? Charge admission, and give the profit (after the executioner is paid) to the families of the DSU students.
9/16/2008 9:42:12 PM How about a public execution? Charge admission, and give the profit (after the executioner is paid) to the families of the DSU students. considerthis
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jfrancus wrote:

Just here to work and do the jobs Americans wont do
9/16/2008 9:07:38 PM Just here to work and do the jobs Americans wont do jfrancus
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And what's your answer to the gang issue? What would you do to control it?

Other then being suspected of belonging to MS13, would it matter if they were members of PS13?

In this case a crime was committed and those who committed the crime were arrested and tried and found guilty.

What if they belonged to the KKK or the Aryan Nation or any number of gangs, would it make a difference ?

MS13, isn't the only Hispanic street gang, there's the Latin Kings, even Hispanic variations of the Crips & Bloods.

What about the outlaw MC gangs, they commit as many murders etc. against rival gangs and non-gangmembers as the black and hispanic gangs do, and sell as much drugs to boot.

What with Ike, and the economy, this has been a relatively quiet Victory,....It's nice to see craziness abated, though.


California Thwarting Will of Congress
Court Says So

Lou Dobbs Tonight -- CNN -- September 16

Casey Wian: Since 2002, illegal aliens attending state colleges in California have been allowed to pay lower tuition rates than U.S. citizens from other states. In-state resident tuition can save a student $17,000 a year at the prestigious university of California schools, and from $2,000 to $10,000 at community colleges and Cal State schools. In 2005, a group of out-of-state citizen students filed a suit challenging the law, but it was dismissed. They appealed, and Monday, a state appellate court reinstated their case. The justices ruled unanimously that California is violating federal law by offering a benefit to illegal aliens not available to all American citizens.[...]
In a strongly-worded opinion, the court rejected two technical arguments by the California college system. First, that in- state tuition is not a benefit within the meaning of the federal law. The justices called that "an illogical assumption." The state also argued that reduced tuition for illegal aliens is contingent upon attending high school in California for three years, not on residency. The justices said "that makes no sense."
In summary, the court ruled California's law "thwarts the will of Congress."


Topical, as well, From Californians for population stabilisation:

ALERT: Victory! CA Appellate Court Denies In-State Tuition for Illegal Alien Students!

September 16, 2008 -- 1:40 pm PDT

In a major victory for opponents of illegal immigration, a state appellate court held that California is violating federal law by giving in-state tuition rates to illegal alien students at state colleges and universities.

The 3rd District Court of Appeal unanimously reversed the Superior Court's dismissal of a suit brought by students who paid far more to attend college because they were out-of-state residents. The appellate court ruled that California's law conflicts with federal law and gave the plaintiffs permission to challenge the constitutionality of the state law.

California's AB 540, passed in 2001, makes the state one of only nine with laws allowing illegal aliens to qualify for subsidized, in-state tuition rates.

This is not the end of the case. It was remanded to Superior Court for trial, and the appellate ruling could be appealed to the state Supreme Court, but it is sweet to savor this victory for now.