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Campfire Kahuna
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You can lauhh or cry,...on this one,....

honestly,...I could just 'bout do both,

thinkin' bout how we're to take care of these folk.

Oh ,....wait, I know,......LET'S bring in another 750K folks,......

what a tangled web we've woven,...N.Y. Times,....no less.



Link: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/10/16/america/16immig.php

A Somali influx unsettles Latino meatpackers
By Kirk Semple Published: October 16, 2008


GRAND ISLAND, Nebraska: Like many workers at the meatpacking plant here, Raul Garcia, a Mexican-American, has watched with some discomfort as hundreds of Somali immigrants have moved to town in the past couple of years, many of them to fill jobs once held by Latino workers taken away in immigration raids.

Garcia has been particularly troubled by the Somalis' demand that they be allowed special breaks for prayers that are obligatory for devout Muslims. The breaks, he said, would inconvenience everyone else.

"The Latino is very humble," said Garcia, 73, who has worked at the plant, owned by JBS U.S.A. Inc., since 1994. "But they are arrogant," he said of the Somali workers. "They act like the United States owes them."

Garcia was among more than 1,000 Latino and other workers who protested a decision last month by the plant's management to cut their work day � and their pay � by 15 minutes to give scores of Somali workers time for evening prayers.

After several days of strikes and disruptions, the plant's management abandoned the plan.

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But the dispute peeled back a layer of civility in this southern Nebraska city of 47,000, revealing slow-burning racial and ethnic tensions that have been an unexpected aftermath of the enforcement raids at workplaces by federal immigration authorities.

Grand Island is among a half dozen or so cities where discord has arisen with the arrival of Somali workers, many of whom were recruited by employers from elsewhere in the United States after immigration raids sharply reduced their Latino work forces.

The Somalis are by and large in this country legally as political refugees and therefore are not singled out by immigration authorities.

In some of these places, including Grand Island, this newest wave of immigrant workers has had the effect of unifying the other ethnic populations against the Somalis and has also diverted some of the longstanding hostility toward Latino immigrants among some native-born residents.

"Every wave of immigrants has had to struggle to get assimilated," said Margaret Hornady, the mayor of Grand Island and a longtime resident of Nebraska. "Right now, it's so volatile."

The federal immigration crackdown has hit meat- and poultry-packing plants particularly hard, with more than 2,000 immigrant workers in at least nine places detained since 2006 in major raids, most on immigration violations.

Struggling to fill the grueling low-wage jobs that attract few American workers, the plants have placed advertisements in immigrant newspapers and circulated fliers in immigrant neighborhoods.

Some companies, like Swift & Company, which owned the plant in Grand Island until being bought up by the Brazilian conglomerate JBS last year, have made a particular pitch for Somalis because of their legal status. Tens of thousands of Somali refugees fleeing civil war have settled in the United States since the 1990s, with the largest concentration in Minnesota.

But the companies are learning that in trying to solve one problem they have created another.

Early last month, about 220 Somali Muslims walked off the job at a JBS meatpacking plant in Greeley, Colorado, saying the company had prevented them from observing their prayer schedule. (More than 100 of the workers were later fired.)

Days later, a poultry company in Minnesota agreed to allow Muslim workers prayer breaks and the right to refuse handling pork products, settling a lawsuit filed by nine Somali workers.

In August, the management of a Tyson chicken plant in Shelbyville, Tennessee, designated a Muslim holy day as a paid holiday, acceding to a demand by Somali workers. The plant had originally agreed to substitute the Muslim holy day for Labor Day, but reinstated Labor Day after a barrage of criticism from non-Muslims.

In some workplaces, newly arrived Somali Muslims have not protested their working conditions. That has been the case at Agriprocessors, a meatpacking plant in Postville, Iowa. About 150 Somali Muslims have found jobs there, most of them recruited by a staffing company after the plant lost about half its work force in an immigration raid in May.

Jack Shandley, a senior vice president for JBS U.S.A., said in an e-mail message that "integrating persons of diverse backgrounds regularly presents new and different issues."

"Religious accommodation is only one workplace diversity issue that has been addressed," Shandley said.

Nationwide, employment discrimination complaints by Muslim workers have more than doubled in the past decade, to 607 in the 2007 fiscal year, from 285 in the 1998 fiscal year, according to the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which has sent representatives to Grand Island to interview Somali workers.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 forbids employers to discriminate based on religion and says that employers must "reasonably accommodate" religious practices. But the act offers some exceptions, including instances when adjustments would cause "undue hardship" on the company's business interests.

The new tensions here extend well beyond the walls of the plant. Scratch beneath Grand Island's surface and there is resentment, discomfort and mistrust everywhere, some residents say � between the white community and the various immigrant communities; between the older immigrant communities, like the Latinos, and the newer ones, namely the Somalis and the Sudanese, another refugee community that has grown here in recent years; and between the Somalis, who are largely Muslim, and the Sudanese, who are largely Christian.

In dozens of interviews here, white, Latino and other residents seemed mostly bewildered, if not downright suspicious, of the Somalis, very few of whom speak English.

"I kind of admire all the effort they make to follow that religion, but sometimes you have to adapt to the workplace," said Fidencio Sandoval, a plant worker born in Mexico who has become an American citizen. "A new culture comes in with their demands and says, 'This is what we want.' This is kind of new for me."

Hornady, the mayor, suggested somewhat apologetically that she had been having difficulty adjusting to the presence of Somalis. She said she found the sight of Somali women, many of whom wear Muslim headdresses, or hijabs, "startling."

Today in Americas

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"I'm sorry, but after 9/11, it gives some of us a turn," she said.

Not only do the hijabs suggest female subjugation, Hornady said, but the sight of Muslims in town made her think of Osama bin Laden and the attacks on the United States.

"I know that that's horrible and that's prejudice," she said. "I'm working very hard on it."

She added, "Aren't a lot of thoughtful Americans struggling with this?"

For their part, the Somalis say they feel aggrieved and not particularly welcome.

"A lot of people look at you weird � they judge you," said Abdisamad Jama, 22, a Somali who moved to Grand Island two years ago to work as an interpreter at the plant and now freelances. "Or sometimes they will say, 'Go back to your country.' "

Founded in the mid-19th century by German immigrants, Grand Island gradually became more diverse in the mid- and late-20th century with the arrival of Latino workers, mainly Mexicans.

The Latinos came at first to work in the agricultural fields; later arrivals found employment in the meatpacking plant. Refugees from Laos and, in the past few years, Sudan followed, and many of them also found work in the plant, which is now the city's largest employer, with about 2,700 workers.

In December 2006, in an event that would deeply affect the city and alter its uneasy balance of ethnicities, immigration authorities raided the plant and took away more than 200 illegal Latino workers. Another 200 or so workers quit soon afterward.

The raid was one of six sweeps by U.S. agents at plants owned by Swift, gutting the company of about 1,200 workers in one day and forcing the plants to slow their operations.

Many of the Somalis who eventually arrived to fill those jobs were practicing Muslims and their faith obliges them to pray at five fixed times every day. In Grand Island, the workers would grab prayer time whenever they could, during scheduled rest periods or on restroom breaks. But during the holy month of Ramadan, Muslims fast in daylight hours and break their fast in a ritualistic ceremony at sundown. A more formal accommodation of their needs was necessary, the Somali workers said.

Last year, the Somalis here demanded time off for the Ramadan ceremony. The company refused, saying it could not afford to let so many workers step away from the production line at one time. Dozens of Somalis quit, though they eventually returned to work.

The situation repeated itself last month. Dennis Sydow, the plant's vice president and general manager, said a delegation of Somali workers approached him on Sept. 10 about allowing them to take their dinner break at 7:30 p.m., near sundown, rather than at the normal time of 8 to 8:30.

Sydow rejected the request, saying the production line would slow to a crawl and the Somalis' co-workers would unfairly have to take up the slack.

The Somalis said their co-workers did not offer a lot of support. "Latinos were sometimes saying, 'Don't pray, don't pray,' " said Abdifatah Warsame, 21.

After the Somalis went out on strike on Sept. 15, the plant's management and the union brokered a deal the next day that would have shifted the dinner break to 7:45 p.m., close enough to sundown to satisfy the Somalis. Because of the plant's complex scheduling rules, the new dinner break would have also required an earlier end to the shift, potentially cutting the work day by 15 minutes.

Word of the accord spread quickly throughout the non-Somali work force, though the reports were infected with false rumors of pay raises for the Somalis and more severe cuts in the work day for everyone.

In a counterprotest on Sept. 17, more than 1,000 Latino and Sudanese workers lined up alongside white workers in opposition to the concessions to the Somalis.

"We had complaints from the whites, Hispanics and Sudanese," said Abdalla Omar, 26, one of the Somali strikers.

The union and the plant management backed down, reverting to the original dinner schedule. More than 70 Somalis, including Omar and Warsame, stormed out of the plant and did not return; they either quit or were fired.

Since then, Ramadan has ended and work has returned to normal at the plant, but most everyone � management, the union and the employees � says the root causes of the disturbances have not been fully addressed. A sizeable Somali contingent remains employed at the factory � Somali leaders say the number is about 100; the union puts the figure at more than 300, making similar disruptions possible next year.

"Right now, this is a real kindling box," said Daniel Hoppes, president of the local chapter of the union, the United Food and Commercial Workers.

Xawa Ahmed, 48, a Somali, moved to Grand Island from Minnesota last month to help organize the Somali community. A big part of her work, Ahmed said, will be to help demystify the Somalis who remain.

"We're trying to make people understand why we do these things, why we practice this religion, why we live in America," she said. "There's a lot of misunderstanding."







Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain






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Originally Posted by Barak's Womn
Originally Posted by hunter1960
I got to see what built up to where we are, as far as Columbia and other Central American countries.

Colombia is not a Central American country... it's in South America.

Penny

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Thank you, for the correction. I know i feel better, do you feel better? I should of written Nicaragua as to another Central American country. Again thank you, for correcting me.

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If you were doing illegal activities, upon a US Mil. installation against the orders of the Post Commander. It'll be investigated by US Army CID, not the local civilian authorities.

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Campfire Kahuna
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Well,....when you've " got to go seed " ( the language here is impossible)

....and you've "See'd", what's goin on,.....you come back, and let us know.

Aqui tenemos dona Penny nada mas que el le esuchan "Nalgoteador"

....asi es.

GTC


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Your the last one to talk, about writing things. Half the crap the you write is so broken up, it's like you don't know, how to finish a sentence.

IC B2

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Campfire Kahuna
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" If you were doing illegal activities, upon a US Mil. installation against the orders of the Post Commander. It'll be investigated by US Army CID, not the local civilian authorities."

......quaking in my boots here,.....punk,

you better go get on the horn,....right pronto.

Be obedient,......while making a full report.

Uh,.....let's see,.....tell RUMSFELD,...and CHENEY,....you'll be a real star.

Criminally inclined Patriot Mil. Contractor signs off,....amazed at the depth of dumbchidtt.

How many coats did they have to spray on you ,.anyhoo ?

I mean,....to make you the way you are.......?

Or the way you ACT like you are,.....?

Hope springs eternal,....you're the best clown ever, and have been pulling our leg,........for moons..........?

Run off,....report,....this is HOT.

Bwa-haaa.

Naw,.....just a supreme A-Jhole.

GTC


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-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain





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Campfire Kahuna
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Vengamos,....imnediatamente,....todamentos,

El Don Hunter1960 Va a Ensenar un clase Ingles.

Que milagro,.....

GTC

Last edited by crossfireoops; 10/16/08.

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I really don't care what you do dumbass, your not worth the time and effort. You have a good evening.

I was just responding to your stupid comment that local sheriff would respond to your activities on Post, of which the local sheriff has no authority.

Oh! by the way, why was the Post Commander a puzzy, cause he set a policy that you didn't agree with?

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Campfire Kahuna
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I really need to appologise to Ms. Penny for my own awful grammar,.....I can do better,...when in practice.

" I really don't care what you do dumbass,"

To that I can only say that you are but a fleck of camel dung,....on the behind of a carvan of some importance,.....clingin' to familiar butt..

Might oughta' keep your head stuck outta' that fur more. Look around like,.....study some Geography ?

Figure out mebbe,...whether your behind's punched,.bored , or ate out by a Magpie.

Now,....go do your duty,....call the local heat and report this flagrant abuse of the law,.........I mean the BP "Arty Sims".

this should be good for a laugh.

GTC










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Like i said dude, i don't give a crap, what you do in Az. The locals , to probably include the Mil. authorities at Ft. Huachuca, probably know your a nutcase anyway.

With any luck you might run across some real ordnance. You know range accidents do happen, be careful, wouldn't want anything to happen to you.

You've got enough to worry about, with the illegals, that keep you all in a flitter. smile

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Don't sweat it hunter. I couldnt make out half the gibberish posted above either.


Do it today. Tomorrow there may be a law against it.
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Actually, I couldnt understand any of it.


Do it today. Tomorrow there may be a law against it.
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g5m Offline
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And this might hurt tourism:

October 15, 2008 - 7:40PM
Nogales, Mexico included in U.S. travel alert
Comments 4| Recommend 0
The Associated Press
TUCSON - The U.S. State Department has added the border city of Nogales, Sonora, to its list of locales in Mexico where American travelers should be wary because of increasing violence.

The updated State Department travel alert attributes much of the violence in northern Mexico border cities to fighting among Mexican drug cartels for control of border-area narcotics trafficking routes.

Mexico's government has deployed military troops to the region to try to crack down on the drug organizations.

An American scuba instructor who travels through Sonora with divers every other week said Wednesday that he expects the alert to impact border tourism, with downtown Nogales store owners who cater to border visitors bearing the brunt of a slowdown. But he said he hasn't encountered any problems nor does he expect to.

The alert said Nogales, Ciudad Juarez and Tijuana were among cities that "recently experienced public shootouts during daylight hours in shopping centers and other public venues."

It also said U.S. citizens driving along Route 15 between Nogales and Hermosillo, the capital of the northern state of Sonora, have been followed and harassed. Nogales is about 60 miles south of Tucson.

"Some recent Mexican army and police confrontations with drug cartels have taken on the characteristics of small-unit combat, with cartels employing automatic weapons and, on occasion, grenades," the alert said.

It cited firefights in many towns and cities, including Ciudad Juarez, where more than 1,000 people have been killed this year, Tijuana and Chihuahua City.

Alejandro Ramos, a spokesman for the Mexican consulate in Tucson, said there are people living in border communities like Nogales who cross over the border every day.

"I don't see a change in their daily lives," he said. "For the people, it's just what they've been living with. That is not to say that there hasn't been an increase in violence on the part of drug gangs, and criminal activity."

But he said the Mexican government has taken significant action to try to address the violence.

"We should not make people fearful of what is happening, because there are also things that are being done on the Mexican side," Ramos said. "Right now we can't say that that is enough, but for the most part Mexico is still the same place. And it's common to see these kinds of warnings, but we should not take it for more than a warning."

Del Randall, co-owner of the Dive Shop in Tucson, said he's taken groups to such locations as La Paz on the Gulf of California coast for five years, and for years fought fires in Mexico.

"I have never encountered a problem," he said, noting that any city can have bad areas. "There are bad places in Tucson to avoid. I don't see the violence in Nogales being any worse than South Tucson."

But Randall said the travel alert "definitely will affect the shopping down there. It's definitely going to affect the little guy."

Meanwhile, U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokesman Brian Levin said it was too soon to see any impact from the travel alert, but that there could be one within a few days.

"Right now we're still seeing about 42,000 or 43,000 people a day coming through Nogales," a normal number for this time of year, Levin said.




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Originally Posted by 379 Peterbilt
Don't sweat it hunter. I couldnt make out half the gibberish posted above either.

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I don't know if he gets on the hooch and tries to write or what. Sometimes it's like reading some type of secret code. smile

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I don't know how much this State Dept advisory effects the tourist industry in the Mexican border towns. Don't most folks know that the places are pretty crappy to begin with?

I do wonder how the increase in crime, is effecting the tourist trade in the big tourist, cruise ship stops, on the Pacific or Gulf coast areas of Mexico?

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I can't say that most people know that. But, when the State Dept. cautions people about going there maybe they'll listen a bit. Maybe not.


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Originally Posted by g5m
"The Reaper's Line", a book about what is going on at the border, is available here:

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1195303108&tab=1&searchurl=an%3Dmorgan%26sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dthe%2Breaper%2527s%2Bline%26x%3D49%26y%3D12

You'll probably have to set up an AbeBooks account to order. That is no big deal. That's the best price I've seen for this book. It is possibly 'remaindered' at that site.



That's a smokin' hot price,......and a good read for anyone comporting to have even moderate interest in Border issues.

Rumor is that a "Sequel" may be on the way.

Those that have read it might be amused to learn that "Baby Ray" Borane's been awarded a Latin American Medal for productive service,....and is the sitting Az. ambassador to Mex. now.



Speaking of odd, ....it would seem that our seasoned Latin American Veteran Drug interdiction Warrior has neglected to learn any of the Language..........I mean,....that's ODD.
Must be (again) above his pay grade.

A good momentary break from monotonous blather,.......griping and ragging at him in dialect,(like he hasn't been looking for it).

Puro pinche pendejo, El Casador1960.

GTC.





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This is one to keep our eyes on,.......

I know a LOT of my Hispanic compadres that are really pizzed about this,.....it's a Non- Partisan issue, ....so to speak.

Meddling,....pure and simple.

McWhirter would stab his own Mom , if teh figured their was a nickle in it. What a loser.

Link: http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2008/10/16/20081016deposits1016.html

Thomas blasts consulate for aiding immigrants caught in raid
120 commentsby Michael Kiefer - Oct. 16, 2008 09:14 PM
The Arizona Republic
Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas on Thursday lashed out at the Mexican Consulate in Phoenix for depositing money in the jail accounts of nine people arrested last June in an immigration raid at a valley water park.

Thomas called the deposits - which are not illegal - an instance in which "The Mexican government is trying to come in and undermine American law, Arizona law in this case, in relation to illegal immigration."

Mexican Consulate officials released a statement that said the office has the right to assist Mexican citizens who are in the United States. That includes lending financial help. The money given helped the group purchase things such as tooth paste and deodorant, according to the statement.
The purpose of the Mexican Consulate in Phoenix is to assist Mexican citizens in this country-just as U.S. consulates assist U.S. citizens abroad.

Thomas acknowledged that the Mexican Consulate at times does deposit money in the accounts of Mexican citizens in the jails, but thought it suspicious that it did so for all nine defendants in what may develop as the first case in which the state's employers sanction law is tested.

"The Mexican government needs to explain what it is doing," Thomas said. "And I want to explain to the people of this county that we are going to get to the bottom of this case, of all of the defendants of this case, we are going to continue to prosecute this case, but we are going to find out whether or not there is improper activity going on with a foreign government."

But whether the Mexican government actually "needs to explain" is doubtful.

"This is purely trying to make an issue out of Mexicans and Mexico as an electioneering tactic," said Robert McWhirter, a Phoenix defense attorney who has written two books on immigration law.

"It's bad enough that Thomas wants to make himself his own immigration service, now he wants to be his own state department," McWhirter said.

McWhirter notes that the role of ambassadors is to lobby in foreign countries to make favorable laws for their countrymen, so even if the Mexican consulate were trying to influence American law, that would not be illegal. And he pointed out that even noncitizens have rights under the U.S. Constitution.

Jail accounts allow inmates to make purchases of necessities while in jail.

"A hundred dollars on somebody's books is barely enough to buy toothpaste and shampoo," McWhirter said.

The nine people in question were arrested in June at Waterworld amusement park in Glendale and at the park's parent company's headquarters in Mesa. They were charged with identity theft and other charges, and Thomas believes the investigation into their employment could lead to the first civil complaint under the employer sanctions law, which threatens the business licenses of employers who knowingly hire undocumented immigrants.

Thomas also publicly criticized the Mexican Consulate in June 2006 because it had contacted a Los Angeles attorney to question the state's human smuggling laws, which had recently gone into effect. He said that the consulate's deposits on the books of the Waterworld 9 hearkened back to that event.

He felt it merited an investigation, which he says is impeding the investigation into employer sanctions cases.

In late September, a detective from the county attorney's office sent a letter to Jorge Solchaga, an official at the consulate, demanding why another employee had made the deposits. And he wanted to know if a third-party were involved.

Thomas claimed the consulate did not respond.

"Thomas is absolutely overstepping his authority," McWhirter said. "He has no authority to hurt the foreign relations of the United States with a foreign government. If every county attorney in the country did that, you could have no foreign policy."





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Bubba, i wasn't involved in drug operations in Latin America, so your little smartass mouth can give that up. I was involved in aviation with the US Army in Latin America. If i told you the unit, you'ld probably make fun of that to. But i wouldn't expect much more from a person like you.

I didn't get into LE until after i retired, from the Army. What smartass comment are you going to state for me, being retired from the Mil. now?

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Here's a smartassed movie clip.........the end of the old Vincent Price version of "The Fly".

....cept it ain't a flowerbed,.........and it ain't a mutant fly.

A Train of pack camels files by,....from one camel's butt,....desperate little minature voice ceies out, Plaintive and heart rending,......

Hark,...what's that sound,....is it "Lone Azzhole"

No it's "Fleck"

Buzz off,......"Fleck"

go report somebody for breaking a rule, or something you percieve as one.

GTC


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