Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Using non-AI ammo in an AI chamber

As I understand it, one of the benefits of an Ackley chamber is it's ability to shoot non-AI spec ammo.

Is anyone using factory ammo in an Ackelfied gun? How's it working?

If I were shopping for a used rifle would an AI chamber be a reason to not buy (for a non handloader)?

in my 223 AI and my 243AI my fireforming loads were very accurate. Velocity was good.

The only thing I would worry about is make sure you get one of the more common AI rounds like: 243AI, 6mmAI, 223AI, 280AI, 30-06AI, 25-06AI.

+1

I've not shot a round out of an AI'd case in my .223AI yet. I hunt with the fireform loads and it is very accurate. I shot a few left over factory 55 grain loads as well and they were very accurate.

JCM

I had the same experience in my .257 AI. The fireform loads were about 3/4" at 100 yds. I switched to Partitions and used the same primers and powder charge for all my hunting.

This will lower the pressure and therefore the velocity some.

Good reports. Thanks.

A properly set up Ackley chamber will have a crush fit on factory ammo and new brass.

If you are a reloader, why would you want to shoot factory ammo?

All of the many Ackley's that I have had shot wonderful fireforming brass, usually less than 1/2" in 17 Ackley, 223 AI, 22/250 AI, 6/250 AI, 243 AI, 244 AI, and 6.5 Rem Mag AI.

How much velocity do you lose when shooting non-AI cartridges in your AI chambers?

My .30-30AI shot factory ammo quite well.

There are reasons to shoot standard ammo in an Ackley chamber. Two that I can think of off the top of my head are when you get separated from your handloads (which can and does happen when traveling by air) and when you want a lot of formed brass, as for a varmint rifle. I was once on a prairie dog shoot when Steve Timm shot several hundred rounds of factory .223's in his .223 AI for just that reason.

How much velocity is lost when doing this varies with the original round and the AI. Some AI's gain signficant case capacity over the original and some don't. There's also the factor of how hot (or cool) the factory ammo is loaded.

In a .250 Savage AI there will be a LOT of difference between factory ammo in typical handloads, because the AI chamber is significantly bigger and factory .250 ammo is relatively low pressue.

In a .223 AI there won't be all that much difference, because the .223 is a fairly stright-sided case and loaded to fairly high velocities in most factory ammo.

While most AI chambers are set up so the standard case will crush-fit when chambered, this involved setting back the barrel a thread when rechambering a factory barrel. Some gunsmiths just run a reamer into the barrel without setting it back. Factory ammo may or may not go off in such a chamber, and if it does may stretch some just in front of the case head.

My brother got his 7mm-08ai the day before hunting season. He built it for his wife and she really wanted to hunt with it. He didn't have time for fireforming and load development so he just ran the regular ammo. Groups were good and it did fine. She shot here first buck with it and the deer never knew the difference

Yep. I killed some more varmints this past weekend with 223AI fireforming loads. A 55gr Blitz at 3,250 will indeed blow things up.

When I fire formed the first 100 cases for my .257 AI, I used 117 Hornady SSTs that I had bought cheap at a gun show. I loaded the lowest charge of H4831sc shown in the Nosler manual. They shot sub-moa groups at 100 yards.

After decapping and resizing the cases, I loaded up several different charges of H4831sc and 115 Partitions, starting with the mid-range in the manual. None of them shot worth a damn, and at the second rung of the "ladder", I started getting signs of high pressure. I tried other powders with the same results. It was really frustrating, and I put the rifle aside and shot some others that fall.

When I got back to it in mid-winter, I loaded up some of the 115 Partitions with the same charge that I used fire forming and got 3/4" groups almost exactly like I had with the Hornadys. I was still bummed, because I had selected the AI chambering looking for more velocity at reasonable pressures, not less. Just for curiosity's sake though, I ran four or five over the chronograph to see how bad it was. The average was 3,050 fps and the std. dev. was +or- 20 fps or so. That didn't seem right.

I took the rifle back to the builder to see if there was a problem with the chamber and everything checked out right on spec. He shrugged and said that I had an AI that gives me AI velocities with a less powder.

To answer your question in terms that make sense, shopping for a rifle that has an AI chamber if you are not a hand loader is exactly like looking for a wife but not wanting to have sex, you get most of the bad and NONE of the really good. horrible idea.
RC828

Only have one AI in .223 and standard .223 factory or handloads shoot very well in it, very well indeed.

That pretty much nails it. That AI rifle would have to be one heck of a bargain to follow a non-reloader home. Kind of like buying a lefty bolt action if you are right handed.

I have a couple AI rifles, a 30-06AI and a 22-243AI. I built them to experiment with and learn. But you can do none of that unless you reload.

You can use factory ammo, if the chamber was built correctly, and kill game with it. But you will have a less desirable rifle for use and for resale. You will always regret the purchase, unless you do intend to begin reloading in the future.

If you intend to become a reloader, then the AI is a great way to start. There are lots of folk around here with great advice to help along the way.

Mudhen,
Your mistake was in loading a too-light charge of slow burning powder. When the brass formed, it looked fine but the headspace was, in all likelyhood, short. This explains the inaccuracy of the fireformed brass. If the pressure signs you saw were primarily flattened primers, this was because the heavier charge was stretching the case to fill the void and the primer was being reseated.
The use of light loads for fireforming is just plain wrong and will result in shortened cases. Using a relatively snappy load with a faster burning powder works best. In some cases, even the factory loads are too light to form well ( the 250 and the the 257 R are two which sometimes have this problem) but usually, they work out well. With some of the AI cartridges (223, all of those based on the 308 case)the factory round probably fits the AI chamber just as well as it would the standard one since headspace is shorter and diameter at the shoulder hasn't changed much. GD

Simple fix, you needed to switch powders...

I fireform with full house loads and generally faster burning.

What Greydog said.

When fire-forming AI case I generally use a maximum load for the PARENT cartridge, and maybe a grain or two more if the parent cartridge is known to be have pretty wimpy data, as is often the case with the .257 Roberts.

Then I often go out and shoot some prairie dogs with those loads, a quick way to get used to the new rifle AND form some cases!