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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348 |
I'd be for thinking that Marquart would be one of them but that is just a SWAG. Paul was one of the best, all right, but he didn't make any barrels smaller than 7mm. No one surpassed his 7mm to .45 barrels, and few were his equal. His equal for smaller calibers at that time was another Prescott barrel-maker, Rich Carns. Both Paul and Rich made a number of barrels for me. One superior feature of their barrels was their complete stress-relief. Paul stress-relieved Rich's barrels.
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,713
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,713 |
I love reading this historical stuff. I remember nearly all of these names being mentioned by Jack O'Oconnor in his many articles written in the '50s. He also mentioned in many articles his suggestions for tuning the M70 Winchesters so they would be accurate. The quality of the bullets now available are what seem to show how good those rifles really were.
Jim
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 1 |
Flaigs used two barrels as I recall, Douglass (WV, USA) and Boller (European). One was marked Flaig's Ace and the other was marked Flaig's; I don't want to say which was which as I can't remember and don't want to put out any bad poop. Did Flaig make their own barrels?
PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor Member
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,488
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,488 |
I have a rifle built by Bill Sukalle in .300 Winchester, I remember Bill and his shop before his time was taken up when he was doing contract work for NASA which took up all of his time. He was truly a master barrel maker and really did some fine work on Mausers. His picture can be found in ROY DUNLAP's book GUNSMITHING. I also remember ROY DULAP from his day's with the Palma team and writing for the NRA he was a great gunsmith and rifle builder, along with a high power shooter.
Thus saith thr lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeh from the lord. Jeremiah 17:5 KJV
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,527
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,527 |
Every time I hear the name Flaigs I remember stopping at the store whenever on the way to meet my girl friend at the time in Pittsburgh. What a candy store for gun nutz it was. I don't think I ever saw a place to compare.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,455
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,455 |
Sinebar, welcome to the 'fire. It's a wonderful thing to not only own a piece of history, but to have the knowledge and ability to use it.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,262 Likes: 41
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,262 Likes: 41 |
I bought a Sukalle sporter here on the Campfire Classifieds 2-3 months ago. My bore-scope shows one of the smoothest bores I've seen. It's as nice or nicer than the top barrels made from today, including Krieger and Lilja.
The rifle is made on a military 98 action, and the barrel is stamped ".257 Rem."--meaning .257 Roberts. The date code indicates it was made in 1948.
I've been too darn busy testing other rifles to shoot it yet, but am going to try to this coming week. It has a K4 Weaver in a Griffin & Howe mount and the results should be interesting!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 80
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 80 |
bucktales--I have a Flaigs sporter built on an FN 98 action, with a round to octagon full ribbed barrel. The bottom of the barrel is marked "Flaig's, Austria 9-19-52". It is chambered in .300 Holland and Holland.
"Mama tried..."
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 1
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2010
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If your European barrel is marked Flaig's, I think it is safe to say the Flaig's Ace is the Douglass.
PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor Member
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 844
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 844 |
A.O. Niedner of Dowagiac, MI was a famous barrel maker of a slightly earlier period, the 30s and 40s, as was John Dubiel. Another maker not previously mentioned is Hart. And I seem to recall that Melvin Johnson may have supplied barrels during the 50s.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,214 Likes: 8
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
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Anyone remember Star "diamond lapped barrels? Not a premium barrel by any stretch (about eight bucks apiece for blanks in the late sixties to early seventies)They were a remarkably consistent barrel. Douglas was always a popular barrel; Hart was a real premium barrel. Bauska barrels worked better than they looked. Buhmiller barrels were very good. We used to be able to buy barrel blanks from Sako and they were good barrels. Same with Schulz& Larsen. GD
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 405
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 405 |
The gentleman that got me hooked on guns, hunting and shooting, had Bliss Titus barrels on many of his custom built rifles. This fellow was left handed. He had Remington 721 and 722 actions converted to left hand actions. He then had Bliss install barrels. I met this man in about 1959. I watched him shoot a Bliss barreled 220 Swift and put three shots into an area smaller than a dime at 100 yards and that it for me. I've been pulling triggers ever since. By the way, I was nine years old and he told me "that group is not so hot, you should see what the pros do". My friend also had what he called a "Baby .270". It was a .30 caliber model 99 necked down, shortened and barreled to .277. Could it have started life as a .300 Savage?
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,795 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,795 Likes: 6 |
Gregory, originally that 99 could have been in 303 Savage, 30-30, 300 Savage, or 308 depending on model and year. After rebarreling, might have been a "270 Savage" if he wanted it to work with minimal change to the rotors/etc. That's basically a 300 Savage cartridge necked down to .277. With a good gunsmith, could have been made into other 270 cartridges also.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,433 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,433 Likes: 10 |
Sam May, who owned Apex barrels, also built many great barrels. Met an old gentleman at the range this past weekend who had a 1936 Oberndorf Mauser action with an "Apex Match Grade" barrel in .243 Winchester. Had what looked like a very old Weaver scope with no internal adjustments, the external adjustments were in the rear mount. Pretty neat rig.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954 |
I used most of the barrels mentioned way back then..The ONLY barrel I liked back then was Douglas, they had the modern equipment of the day, that none of the others had IMO...
Only Douglas has survived those days and its still a darn nice barrel, in fact still my second choice for hunting rifles but its a distant choice from Lothar Walthar that I use today almost exclusively...
Back then a 2 inch 3 shot group rifle was the exception, not the rule. Today its pretty easy to produce a 3 shot one inch gun, and a 5 shot one inch gun is relitively common.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,088
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
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Anyone remember Star "diamond lapped barrels? Not a premium barrel by any stretch (about eight bucks apiece for blanks in the late sixties to early seventies)They were a remarkably consistent barrel...... Sure do! Had a 358 Norma barrelled up with one on a 98 Mauser. Shot just fine. Ted
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,172
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,172 |
Gregory; The 270 Titus was a necked down 300 Savage and was originated by Bliss Titus as far as I know.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Shilen started business in 1955. Butch
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Campfire Tracker
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Did Flaig make their own barrels? I don't think so. I've kinda studied up on the Flaig rifles and barrels and from what I've read he used barrels marked Bohler and later on used Douglas barrels.
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Joined: Mar 2001
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2001
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Hmmmm, as I recall Sukalle was/is Butch Searcys father in law or something like that, guess it runs in the family. At least one of the famous old timers was his father in law or some kin.
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