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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Additional case life is one great reason for throttling back. You can load to 65000 and get three firings, or load at 50k and get 40 with proper annealing every few loads. I believe the point where brass no longer "springs" back is somewhere in the low 50s, but could be wrong on my number. Well now we're talking about running up to 65K or stopping @ 50K. Big difference. And for the record, the need to exceed 50K is one of the reasons Lapua brass has the reputation it does. They recognized the need, and progressed accordingly. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: May 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
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Yes, it can. The faster it starts out, the faster it loses velocity to the drag that it encounters in its travel. Timeless fact of physics. Wishing to believe in magic when I was younger it took me too long to realize that. But still it's fun to push the envelope. Not necessarily productive but fun, sort of tweaking the nose of the gods.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
You don't think a loss of 150fps is a lot?
Maybe SAAMI will get the message and change the max pressure of the .280 back to 50K. That's progress! Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554 |
Mule Deer got me thinking too much on speed difference to my chagrin, I would like to believe in magic. Do the charts and see how few steps closer you need to get to achieve the same terminal velocity. Ain't many at very high muzzle velocity. Back to Ken's, "The faster it starts, the faster it loses..."
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527 |
I know I am always looking to hamstring my various guns by loading them cold.
PS, faster bullets do not slow down faster if the BC's are the same. This whole arguement is BS because you guys are comparing apples to oranges.
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Joined: Sep 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2002
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x Back to Ken's, "The faster it starts, the faster it loses..." That's true all the way down to arrows and slingshot velocities. So, that alone won't stand as sufficient argument.
Save an elk, shoot a cow.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Mule Deer got me thinking too much on speed difference to my chagrin, I would like to believe in magic. Do the charts and see how few steps closer you need to get to achieve the same terminal velocity. Ain't many at very high muzzle velocity. Back to Ken's, "The faster it starts, the faster it loses..." You're right. I'll give up about 300fps with my 75gr A-Maxes. That way I can shoot .223 speeds in my 22-250. Progress! Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554 |
Sufficient argument for what? It's just an observation that super high velocities don't get you as much as it seems.The higher the velocity the higher the drag (square of the velocity IIRC) so the higher the rate of velocity loss. Fun to do it though.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 26,389 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 26,389 Likes: 6 |
I know I am always looking to hamstring my various guns by loading them cold.
PS, faster bullets do not slow down faster if the BC's are the same. This whole arguement is BS because you guys are comparing apples to oranges.
Whiffleball vs baseball.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554 |
Never implied it wasn't fun or not worth doing. I took Ken's original post to mean take a calculated look at what you're gaining and what your giving up. Then rationally decide what meets your desires.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,081
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2013
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So if I launched one 75 gr Amax at 3000, and another 75 gr amax at 3300 at the same time. The slower one would pass the faster one?
Last edited by mog75; 10/02/13.
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Joined: Sep 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738 |
Sufficient argument for what? For why 50K pressures should be the ceiling, or 40k, or ... The point is simply that making optimization arguments based on one value (pressure in Ken's case) is sorta fruitless.
Save an elk, shoot a cow.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,084
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,084 |
Really all Cartridge Progress ended with the 338 Win
Picked up a tad with the 450M and 480R
Snake
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 26,389 Likes: 6 |
So if I launched one 75 gr Amax at 3000, and another 75 gr amax at 3300 at the same time. The slower one would pass the faster one? No, but generally faster means lighter, so thats when it applies. Air is denser than most people think.
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
So if I launched one 75 gr Amax at 3000, and another 75 gr amax at 3300 at the same time. The slower one would pass the faster one? If you really want to kick some ass, drop it down to 2,500fps. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738 |
So if I launched one 75 gr Amax at 3000, and another 75 gr amax at 3300 at the same time. The slower one would pass the faster one? If you really want to kick some ass, drop it down to 2,500fps. Travis If you keep it in your pocket it won't lose ANY speed at all! Dang, that would be the very best possible.
Save an elk, shoot a cow.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738 |
You betchya. I knew you would catch on.... 
Save an elk, shoot a cow.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527 |
My dream is a 7mag loaded down to a 7-30 Waters.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
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So if I launched one 75 gr Amax at 3000, and another 75 gr amax at 3300 at the same time. The slower one would pass the faster one? If you really want to kick some ass, drop it down to 2,500fps. Travis Yep, my 7-30 waters loaded with 162 Amax will beat a 7 RUM loaded with 195 grain originals..Cutting edge
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