Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Gettysburg

Given the death and destruction, fear and agony, experienced by those men, why would anyone want a physical memento of the event? I understand the history, but I couldn’t look at those items without thinking of the physical and emotional anguish and horror felt by those who fought and died there.





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Rather than asking what would have happened if Lee did this or that at Gettysburg, I think the better question is what would've happened had he not invaded Pennsylvania at all? The Confederacy was still pretty strong but was never able to replace what it lost at Gettysburg

Good point. I think you answered your own question. The Confederacy was indeed still pretty strong but they knew they couldn't get any stronger because deficiencies in supplies/logistics was starting to be felt and enlistments had leveled off because there weren't many able bodied guys left who weren't already serving. There simply wasn't a big enough population to sustain growing the army (armies) any larger. They knew they needed to act decisively before things started to peter out, while still at the top of their game. They also knew that their enemy had vast resources (human and material) as yet untapped, who would only grow exponentially stronger as time went by - so they absolutely had to try something daring and decisive when they did in an attempt to finish things in their favor. To wait any longer would've seen the War devolve into one of simple attrition which they didn't have a hope of winning. (And it did regardless.)

The North was getting fed up with the War though. Rioting against the newfangled draft occurred in NYC such that the Army used cannon fire to quell it. The population was getting sick and tired of being bled white and not seeing any meaningful gains. Add to that England & France teetering on the edge of recognizing the Confederacy as being a legitimate country, pretty much just waiting to see if the South really could make their premise stick. The timing was right for an incursion into the North to push the balance in the South's favor.

Then afterwards Lincoln used the Gettysburg victory to change the whole scope of the war (and renewing support for it among the people) by making slavery and the eradication thereof a key war aim, instead of the whole state's rights issue (of which slavery was but one facet). (Quite the politician he was, using the plight of a people who he personally didn't much care about one way or another to strengthen his position. Sound familiar?)

Yankys won’t fairing well in Virginia

Another good point. Many reasons for the fascination. For me it was always a way of connecting with those participants, to identify with them maybe, by being able to hold tangible relics of their existence in my hands. Kind of the same as my maintaining a tie with my long gone grandfather by using his tools whenever I can.

It isn’t about death and destruction as much as history. Artifacts carry a connection to history and those that made history. The only difference between litter and an artifact is time.

To pick up an item such as a cartridge or button and think of the person that lost it and what they were doing at that time, presents a bit of time travel that can’t be accomplished any other way.

My next attempt at artifact gathering is a piece of the Berlin Wall. Plenty of people died trying to cross it, and as a kid, I still remember the ads on radio and television about the “iron curtain” and to be able to get a part of that remains a story in international history that transcends all the memories of the Cold War…

THe fall of Vicksburg was arguably worse in the strategic sense for the Confederacy. THe South's strategy was almost a mirror image (or the other way around) of Japan's against us in 41. Make them blled a LOT early on and hope for an Armistice. The long game was a loser for both Japan and the SOuth.

A lot of our boys were of the opinion that they were there because they were forced to be there. Many weren't true believers that the South needed to be forcibly returned to the Union. But when Lee invaded the North all the sudden everybody in blue (including the citizenry) embraced the cause and became true believers. It became personal. That's why I think that Lee would've been better off staying in Virginia

Good point 👍

I have always believed this to be true. If I am a Pennsylvania boy during the battle of Gettysburg, I am pretty motivated and determined to fight like hell. A smart Union leader would have drawn this distinction to their advantage.

I have a small chunk of the Berlin Wall. It was given to me by a dear friend and transplanted Berliner who grabbed a piece of the Wall when she was in the mob that battered it down with sledgehammers. When she gave me the piece she admonished me to "never forget".

I still hold Stuart largely responsible for Gettysburg by allowing himself to be cut off from Lee for 2 weeks while in MD and PA. Enemy territory!
I have always held that Lee fought Gettysburg blindfolded. Nobody on Seminary Ridge knew who or what they were fighting until after they were already engaged!
No commander, no matter how great, in any war, would expect to win in that situation.
The AONV was top heavy with commanders from VA, and the majority of Southern History afterwards was written by Virginians. Stuart and Jackson were both Virginians, and both had the good fortune of being killed during the war. So naturally, they’re remembered for their victories and forgiven their errors. Had Longstreet been from VA Or fortunate enough to die after his terrible wound at the Wilderness , he too would be remembered as deity like Lee, Jackson and Stuart!😀 I read a biography of Stuart, written in 1880s by a Virginian who actually suggested Longstreet should have be shot for treason!😳
But he survived the war and did write a pretty self serving book, after he had been held responsible as a scapegoat by the Virginia crowd who were building Lee’s memory as “The Marble Man!😟
I spoke with Kirk a little this morning, and I have my fingers crossed that we’ll be able to get together. He remarked how beautiful this part of the country is, and I just replied that i praise God for being born here daily!😎
This is a very enjoyable thread for me. Most of these guys know and treasure the history, and it’s great to be a member of the community! Something else to thank God for!😎
I got an Army buddy in Minnesota that I have been working on to visit this area. He’s a fellow Civil War Nerd!😀
I think most of you flat landers would be amazed at how beautiful the Allegheny Mountains are.
P-ville Mountain tops out at 3700 feet, that’s a ridge out west!😟
But it’s gorgeous county! I showed pictures of home to and old cowboy I knew in Montana. He said he couldn’t imagine such a place!😎

Yeah Jebs joy ride costed us

Just consider this, reference Stuart. His Cavalry, had he come around the back and attempted to attack the union line from the rear, would have run into an entire Army Corps in Reserve. I think his ass beating by Custer was a blessing, albeit temporary until Custer got him at Yellow Tavern/

Lee’s greatest ally was the northern citizenry who were against the war. His loyalty was to Virginia, his home state, not the Confederacy. It was a common attitude that weakened the South with no cohesive Strategy. Stiffing the western states by cutting off Mississippi River trade turned those formidable allies against them. The Gettysburg Address has been called great rhetoric but poor logic. Lincoln was brilliant in turning Lee’s blunder into a propaganda boost.

A great look from the common man on the otherside of the wall is the Documentary
Chuck Norris vs Communism

When they took down the wall hey KNEW what was on the other side
Not the propaganda fed to them by the government

What they saw in the smuggled movies could not have been movie sets.

Amazing but sadly most have ever heard of it. It chokes you up at times. And you laugh like the devil at others

Good post! The confederacy was made up of 11 sovereign states. Not united as a nation. Jeff Davis was constantly arguing with southern governors, who held back men desperately needed by the Confederate Armies in order to protect their own boundaries. Someone after the war was over, said the Confederacy died of “States Rights” Maybe so.
Washington had to argue this in our revolution! We at that time were 13 sovereign states, and Washington never got the support of logistics, because the states looked out for themselves. Only in 1787, after we had ratified the Constitution, did we consider ourselves a nation, pledged to defend one another.
Join Or Die was a slogan held from the French & Indian War, and it still holds true today! As a united people we can stand against the world! We have done it before!
Precisely why our enemies are dividing us through Race, income, for crying out loud sexual preference and gender!🤬 it’s disgusting to me, and I can’t figure out the answer.
But that discussion is but another tangent, and this is a Civil War thread.
I am enjoying this!😎 I love following Shrapnel’s visit. As he said, the history of Montana starts in 1803 with Lewis and Clark. Virginias starts in 1607!
Imagine! We truly live in a wonderful country!
Reon

As I continue to visit Civil War battlefields and museums, it is clear that the Civil War was about slavery. What little history I paid attention to in school didn’t support that premise…

Uh oh.




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LOL