Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire BAD CHECK HELP

IMO, it could be considered larceny by trick/false pretenses.

bottom line is............you've been scammed.

A magistrate may think so as well and issue the warrant.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for those that fraud/steal for luxury items.

Talk to a lawyer post haste. I sent you a PM about this.

used car dealer gets burned by his greed.

that is too funny right there.

Hi

She sounds like a real piece of garbage, at this point I think your better to call this one a "learning lesson. To much stress for you and if she has the ability to send down the Sheriff down to see you it's just not worth it even though the Sheriff is "wrong" for getting involved.

Post dated checks are not legal in certain states as well, you can't repossess the vehicle unless you have a side agreement in writing and if the lender would subordinate the loan to you which will never happen.

If you hire a lawyer it will cost you a lot more than your loss and even if you get a judgement against her you still might not get paid.

I was in the Car business myself for over 20 years and I financed a lot of the cars myself and unfortunately people don't appreciate it when you do them a favor !

In this world of everyone expecting handouts you really have to choose your battles. It's total BULLSHIT but it is what it is !!!!!!!

Dino

In this state, if you take a post-dated check, it's the same as 'giving credit' and you will end up with NOTHING..

Lesson learned..

Did you put your name (or your business name) on the title as second lien-holder? If not - 'nother lesson learned..

If you have a valid, legal purchase order that shows she's putting 'X' dollars down but you can't obtain those funds, it's possible you might be able to obtain a judgement in your favor via small-claims court.. But it'll cost ya.. AND, if she's really on the down-and-out you'll collect nothing anyway.. Oh, and if you go to court, ensure you supoena the sheriff and have him testify about his warning to you.. I doubt what he did was perfectly legal..

One other thing to do: contact the finance company and let them know the details.. It's possible that once she misses her first or second payment (and she will) that they can yank the car quickly. Then pay off the finance company and get the car back.. Start over and remember the lessons above.. Best of luck.

Last lesson learned..


In the car biz - GET THE BUX UP FRONT.. I was in that career for over 14 years.. Heard every story in the book and then some.. It's the old rule - 'trust, but verify'...

Frankly, you might as well write it off..

As to the sheriff - maybe she's, um, doing him some 'favors' on the side to help her case..

Pat has it right. Its now a civil case if you want to pursue it.

Well..........................................

I got to say the first mistake on your part was to accept post dated checks instead of having a promissory note or loan agreement. Post dated checks, depending on states laws, are generally a no-no.

If the checks were written on a closed account from the start then there is fraud involed. Writing checks on a closed account is illegal. Do you have any proof that the account was in fact closed at the time the checks were written other than her word on it? It doesn't really matter if you don't wish to have it investigated for fraud and the Sheriff probably won't pursue it as a crime anyway.

You're also in a grey area with the finance company, by in essence, loaning her the down payment. I'd be willing to bet that the finance company approved the loan based on her making the down payment in cash. With a finance company involved I'll also assume that they hold the title to the vehicle. That leaves you with no ownership interest in the car which would prevent you from reposessing it.

That leaves you or the dealership in the position of collecting an unsecured debt that was made using post-dated checks. I'm not a lawyer and I have no idea what your state laws are in this regard but it's probably not a good situation. A judge may not honor this agreement if it's illegal to accept post-dated checks in your state. Judges frown on businesses that stray from using proper and legal business practices in making loans.

You still can try and collect the debt from her. Mail her a monthly statement for the ammount owed. It's unlikely but if your nice about it she may send you the payments.

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned is the profit the dealership is making on the sale. It really has nothing to do with the debt but I'd be willing to bet the $700.00 is mainly profit on the deal. If she isn't willing to pay her debts just bite the loss or accept the fact that it's a no or low profit car deal.



fish head

Go repossess your car,for one. Talk to a magistrate, as well. Finding a magistrate to issue a warrant is as easy as drinking at a water fountain around my parts.

It's criminal fraud in most places and/or a element of theft/larceny theories so, let her prove the crime is improperly charged. In the meanwhile, you'll have at least got her sorry-assed attention.

Let her sort it out at her expense,not you! I certainly hope no one here truly thinks the car now belongs to her without any recourse!

Of course not, and I can't speak for Virginia, but the burden(in Texas) is proving that her intent is to permently deprive somebody of their property. When you start explaining to the DA how "I took these checks, knowing that there were no funds at the time, but she promised there would be later, and there was money to cover them some of the time, but some were late, but it was okay then, but now the account is closed, but that's okay if she'll just pay ..." you'll get referred to the JP down the hall to file a small claims suit.

How could he reposess the car if the loan company holds the title? His debt is unsecured.

Also, if he made the loan using post dated checks as a "security agreemnt" ? ? ? wouldn't that, if it is illegal, prevent him from collecting the debt or at least having a judge frown on the whole deal. The dealership is, or should be, held to a higher standard in making loans that are legally enforceable.


I'm not trying to argue with you Issac as you're the expert here. I'm just curious.

fish head

You feel free to argue your position all you like, especially if you feel your position is strong, as it most likely is. The guy is a holder in due course. An presentment of a post dated check is a assurance/warranty that the money will be available on the posted date. If the woman did nothing more, such as a call to explain, make other arrangements for payment or provide any notice of the check not being sufficiently funded by the account, a intent sufficient enough for a magistrate to issue a warrant may exist. If she's arrested and I say if, I bet she figures it all out without delay.

Intent isn't figured out before the warrant or indictment, it's figured out afterwards. Cops and magistrates are not the arbiters of intent.

Screw 6 months or longer with the civil process. Jail solves money problems real quick-like!!

Assuming intent is her problem to ultimately work out, the elements of larceny by false pretenses can be sufficiently PCd enough for a magistrate to issue a warrant,IMO. 80 times out of 100 they probably won't,maybe more, but the civil process court docket would be much less crowded if they did it my way...GDit!!

Here are the elements for the charge in my Commonwealth:

Thus, by statute, the obtaining of money by false pretenses is larceny.   See Hudson v. Commonwealth, 223 Va. 596, 597 n. 2, 292 S.E.2d 317, 318 n. 2 (1982).  �To sustain a conviction of larceny by false pretenses, the Commonwealth must prove:  (a) that the accused intended to defraud;  (b) that  a fraud actually occurred;  (c) that the accused used false pretenses to perpetrate the fraud;  and (d) that the false pretenses induced the owner to part with his property.�  Wynne v. Commonwealth, 18 Va.App. 459, 460, 445 S.E.2d 160, 161 (1994).

Issac, thanks for the answer.

I'm still not clear on the repossession issue though. How can he repossess a car that doesn't belong to him?

In simple words please.


fish head

This is complete BS what she did is steal or scam the OP. I am sick of the attitude that allows people to get away with crap based on there shortcomings. The bigger POS loser they are seems to get them a pass on more stuff as well as handouts.

She took advantage of the situation, and I would be willing to bet that she had a conversation with the sheriff before she decided to close the account to see what the consequences of doing so would be. The fact that as soon as the OP confronted her, she pulled the "friend of the sheriff" card to me means that she had went to him for advise before she even closed the account.

That's partly what I meant about the strength of your argument. My cursory review of the facts got me into a wee bit of a jam so I had to claw my way out of. I thought a compliment might salvage my lazy mistake.

I'm sticking to the rest though and will fight my way out of it TRH style,if I'm pushed!!

Isaac,

If there were any sort of a written contract would the OP not be entitled to place a lien on the car, then either execute the lien or collect on it when the bank inevitably repossesses the property?

he'd be a secondary in a situation where the primary is probably already taking a bath on the loan:value ratio.

What if he executed his lien first?