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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65 |
Go back and read EVERYTHING I said. All 13,000+ posts? If that's whut floats yer boat,feel free. For the purposes of this argument, just the previous 2 to my response to TRH will do fine I happen to have read your previous posts. I disagree with your premise that a warning shot is identical to shooting someone. It lacks intention, and under the circumstances, it also lacks recklessness, so isn't comparable to actually shooting someone for the purpose of the laws you're referring to. It might be a good rule of thumb not to draw without having justification for immediately firing with deadly intent, but it's not traditionally a law that if you draw you must shoot to kill, and I'm not aware of any statute to that effect either.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65 |
That's an awesome breed of dog. Glad you didn't actually need to shoot one of them.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,269
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,269 |
Warning shots are STILL the EMPLOYMENT of lethal force. And I did say that if it is serious enough to shoot, shoot to kill or don't fire AT ALL. You are a pretty murky individual.
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
They can be and generally they are real people friendly but two times in seven days and the one in the duck pen chasing ducks and the one stalking the wife were over the top. I am glad I took the warning shots and glad they worked but I will not keep putting up with this. Lambing season is just around the corner and this is not a place where the ladies need to be afraid to walk outside.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,652 Likes: 34
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,652 Likes: 34 |
They can be and generally they are real people friendly but two times in seven days and the one in the duck pen chasing dicks.... It's been a long day and I'm easily amused right now.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
--------------------------------------------------------- ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 Likes: 1 |
New Hampshire needs to change the law. NH needs to be carved out and sent to England or Australia, where they would fit right in. An Outrage!!
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,162
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,162 |
Based only on the facts presented in the story, I don't understand the arrest. I also don't understand the warning shot... which leads to a serious request. I'd really like to hear from all the current/former LEOs here what the gentleman SHOULD have done, by the numbers.
The reason I ask is because I'm genuinely interested in the range of answers across diverse jurisdictions, given the great variation in state laws dealing with self defense and the use of deadly force. As we know, some states, such as my former home state of Calif., do everything in their power to make it nearly impossible for someone to defend themselves. Others, such as my adopted state of Texas, take a different view.
For example:
"SAN ANTONIO -- Police say a homeowner on the city's northwest side shot a man in the head Wednesday morning for trying to steal a potted plant from his yard.
The homeowner, in his 60s, grabbed his handgun around 8 a.m. and took several shots a man he claims was stealing a potted plant and other items from his yard at 708 Shadwell, said Sgt. Chris Benavides, a spokesman for the San Antonio Police Department.
Officers caught up to the suspect at the Cabana Apartments, where he lives. He told officers that he had just finished dropping his kids off at school when he was shot in the head.
Benavides said the suspect allegedly stopped at the Shadwell Drive home on his way back from the school.
"When the homeowner saw that someone was trying to steal his plant he used his firearm, shot several times at the suspect," Benavides said. "The suspect was struck one time in the head area. It's my understanding that he was grazed by the bullet."
The suspect, in his 40s, was taken to an area hospital. Police said he will be charged with theft and possibly burglary.
Benavides said the homeowner is being questioned but will not likely be charged."
How would this case likely be treated in YOUR jurisdiction?
If you're fixin' to put a hole in something, make it a hole to remember.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
They can be and generally they are real people friendly but two times in seven days and the one in the duck pen chasing dicks.... It's been a long day and I'm easily amused right now. OOPS! Changed it.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,440 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,440 Likes: 3 |
Warning shots are STILL the EMPLOYMENT of lethal force. And I did say that if it is serious enough to shoot, shoot to kill or don't fire AT ALL. You are a pretty murky individual. I disagree - a warning shot (in a safe direction) is MUCH more persuasive, and conducive to immediate compliance, than my voice. Round two would be lethal force. Mark
Last edited by mark shubert; 02/21/12.
I've always been a curmudgeon - now I'm an old curmudgeon. ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65 |
Warning shots are STILL the EMPLOYMENT of lethal force. And I did say that if it is serious enough to shoot, shoot to kill or don't fire AT ALL. You are a pretty murky individual. A warning shot, no matter how ill-advised it may be, isn't lethal force.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65 |
Warning shots are STILL the EMPLOYMENT of lethal force. And I did say that if it is serious enough to shoot, shoot to kill or don't fire AT ALL. You are a pretty murky individual. I disagree - a warning shot (in a safe direction) is MUCH more persuasive, and conducive to immediate compliance, than my voice. Round two would be lethal force. Mark Yep.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 Likes: 1 |
Warning shots are STILL the EMPLOYMENT of lethal force. And I did say that if it is serious enough to shoot, shoot to kill or don't fire AT ALL. You are a pretty murky individual. A warning shot, no matter how ill-advised it may be, isn't lethal force. OH YEAH!?!? He committed indiscriminate Oligochaeta-cide.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,143 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,143 Likes: 2 |
Warning shots are STILL the EMPLOYMENT of lethal force. And I did say that if it is serious enough to shoot, shoot to kill or don't fire AT ALL. You are a pretty murky individual. I disagree - a warning shot (in a safe direction) is MUCH more persuasive, and conducive to immediate compliance, than my voice. Round two would be lethal force. Mark I gotta agree. Unless some new info comes to light, this guy being prosecuted would be total bullshiit.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8 |
San Antonio - Police say a homeowner on the city's northwest side shot a man in the head Wednesday morning for trying to steal a potted plant from his yard. Thanks for this. Friggin' neighbors have been taking the oranges off of our tree out front for years.... No more...
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8 |
I disagree - a warning shot (in a safe direction) is MUCH more persuasive, and conducive to immediate compliance, than my voice. Ya got any actual experience/data to back that up? I'd guess just as often a warning shot precipitates flight or fight when the perp percieves the employment of deadly force has ALREADY begun. ..and IIRC Ayoob cites cases where warning shots caused actual injury. Birdwatcher
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3 |
I disagree - a warning shot (in a safe direction) .... You'd find yourself on the stand defining 'safe direction'.. I'm personally aware of a little libby twerp female lawyer who would not only grill you on that, but demonstrate - by her questioning - that there IS no 'safe direction'...
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65 |
I disagree - a warning shot (in a safe direction) .... You'd find yourself on the stand defining 'safe direction'.. I'm personally aware of a little libby twerp female lawyer who would not only grill you on that, but demonstrate - by her questioning - that there IS no 'safe direction'... Nonsense. It's up to the prosecution to demonstrate to the satisfaction of a jury that the defendant didn't fire in a safe direction. Absent such proof, the jury will be instructed to conclude that the direction was safe. The defendant isn't required to say word one about a safe direction.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 713
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 713 |
Anybody that thinks that this guy deserves charged with the info given does not belong on the 'fire. We are gun owners against liberals. The police should have thanked him, and the officer(s) that charged him should pay his legal fees along with any lost wages+.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3 |
I disagree - a warning shot (in a safe direction) .... You'd find yourself on the stand defining 'safe direction'.. I'm personally aware of a little libby twerp female lawyer who would not only grill you on that, but demonstrate - by her questioning - that there IS no 'safe direction'... Nonsense. It's up to the prosecution to demonstrate to the satisfaction of a jury that the defendant didn't fire in a safe direction. Absent such proof, the jury will be instructed to conclude that the direction was safe. The defendant isn't required to say word one about a safe direction. Au Contrere, my friend.. Our gun range was shut down three years ago due to the plaintiff's argument that ANY shot, fired in ANY direction, is inherently unsafe.. Our NRA certified attorney did his best, but the local court, and the following appeal, got us bupkis.. The State Supreme Court refused to hear any further appeal - and the range is now shut down - permanently.. All due to the little twerp female litigator who let the witnesses around by the nose to an inescapable conclusion that there IS no 'safe' direction.. I was IN that courtroom for this case..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,667 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,667 Likes: 3 |
Warning shots are STILL the EMPLOYMENT of lethal force. While in some distorted legal or officer-speak, that might be construed as true, but in the test of common sense, it's a complete distortion of both reality & common sense. And yes, I respect both your experience & comments based on that experience. MM
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