Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Were Hornady's Flex Tips A Flop ?

I bought a box of the bullets because that's the only ones that were available for a 444.I loaded 20 of them,crimping at the cannelure, only to discover they wouldn't function thru the Marlin.Upon calling Hornady, I was told the cases must be trimmed 1/10 inch! I guess the loaded ammo uses special cases.

I returned them and they are supposed to send me a box of 265 FP.

They seem to be a solution looking for a problem.

Anybody know if they are considered a success by Hornady?

I can't speak on behalf of Hornady, but I'd wager if the bullets were a flop they'd quit producing them.

And while I've never loaded a flex-tip, I thought it was well known they required cases trimmed shorter than standard. Not a big deal if you keep a batch of brass for them seperate from the others. Of course, everyone must decide for themselves if it's worth the hassle. Apparently, you decided "no".

That was good of Hornady to mail you a trade, though.

I load 160 gr flex-tips and 140 gr monoflex for my 30/30. I believe they are a big improvement over flat nosed bullets. At a chronied 2550 fps out of my 30/30 and a decent ballistic coefficient, the 140s are pretty impressive.

Does the BC on a 30-30 really matter?

If the farthest shot you might ever encounter would be 100 yards, then no, the BC wouldn't matter much.

If you thought you might encounter a shot out to 200 yards, then yes, BC would matter.

For folks who always hunt the woods where the shots are going to be limited to 50 or 75 yards give or take, it doesn't make any difference. If someone might occasionally set up on a powerline, old logging road, or some other opening, I can see some interest in extending their effective range by 100 yards.

I remember being on a public hunt several years ago where a guy shot deer two days in a row (one each day) with a .30-30 at a range of about 200 yards (that was the distance from his assigned stand to where the deer crossed a road that he was allowed to shoot down during the controlled hunt). He didn't find either deer despite reaction from both deer at the shot and extensive searching by him and the Wildlife officials who were overseeing the hunt. He said there was some blood where the deer were when they were hit. I was kinda puzzled about why both deer got away until a few years later when I ran some numbers on .30-30 ballistics and found that he was probably past the range at which his bullet would expand reliably. He might have recovered one or both of those deer if he had been using a flex tip bullet (with higher BC) that carried enough velocity at 200 yards to expand reliably.

The Hornady 150 gr .308" Round Nose Interlock has a BC of .186 while the Hornady 160 gr .308" Flex Tip has a BC of .330. Even if the 160 gr FTX starts 100 fps slower than the 150 gr RN, the 160 gr FTX has somewhere around 50 yards more range for a given minimum impact velocity. With the Hornady LEVERevolution 160 gr FTX ammo, the listed muzzle velocity is basically the same as for the 150 gr RN standard load, so you would get around 100 yards more range for a given minimum impact velocity.

The older Marlins also may need to have a different lifter installed for the FTX bullets. The newer Marlins (pre Remington anyway!) don't seem to have an issue.

What are we talking here 2.5 inches ? A competent hunter can easily adjust for that. If we were talking 9 to 12 inches it might be another story. I don't need no Hypevalution bullets.

The guy at Hornady seemed to think I should have known known they require shorter cases, as well.I'm not sure how I was supposed to have come by this information.

Seems like it would have been a simple matter to put a note on the box of bullets saying something like:

"Hey,don't buy these unless you have a lathe.You're gonna wear your ass out trimming your cases by hand".

And........ it turns out that they don't have any 265 gr FP bullets to send me.But they are gonna make some more.No matter, it ain't a rifle I'll use much anyhow.

You would have know had you consulted the Hornady reloading manual which clearly states a shorter trim length is required.

I'm a fan of the 325gr ftx in my muzzleloader. Real hammer at 2300fps.

Compared to a flat nosed bullet? Yes. Take a look at my chronied velocity.

You know, I bought their sixth edition which is a two volume set, and priced accordingly. It wasn't until I got home and took off the wrapping that I found the second volume was actually worthless to me. It is just drop tables for their bullets.

The drop tables in the Nosler manual are a lot easier to use.

Confession time : I load lots of Sierras,a few Speers,a bunch of Barnes,and an assortment of cast bullets, all without owning a manual from those companies.

It's a wonder I'm still alive.

That right there is a load of hooey. I've killed six deer beyond 200 yds. with my .30-30. None went further than 80 yds. after the shot and all were one shot kills. It isn't difficult at all to hit them at 200 yds. with RN bullets {150 yd. zero}. The public land hunter in your story above didn't recover his deer because he didn't hit vitals.

To make matters somewhat more confusing, not all of the cartridges require that the case be trimmed under the normal length. I have loaded some for my .30-30 and did not have to trim the bag of new RP hulls I put them in to make them function properly.

The newer Hornady manuals do indeed specify which cartridges require extra trimming. The .444 Marlin, and the .45-70 are a couple of them. I am thinking the .44 Magnum or the .45 Colt do as well, but I am going from memory.

The good news is that Hornady only sells one manual at a time now. I started picking up their manuals when I noticed that a large percentage of the bullet boxes on my bench were red. I am hoping that Sierra will put out a new manual in the near future. I despise working with that big three ring binder arrangement they put out last time, but they seem to be stuck on that setup.

If you have photos of any of the bullets from those six deer, I would certainly be interested in seeing them.

I don't know where he hit those two deer, I didn't see the shots myself, but at 400 ft elevation (which is roughly the elevation where we were), a RN bullet from a 20" 30-30 barrel is going pretty slow at 200 yards - around 1500 fps for a standard .30-30 150 grain load. Even for bullets intended for .30-30 use, that's kind of slow to expect consistent expansion.

170 gr Partitions in a 26" barreled 30-30 WCF @2400 fps and 265 gr Cast Performance LFNGC's in a 38-55 WCF @1900 fps have been all I have ever needed in peep sighted lever guns for longer range shooting, prefer all lever shooting inside 100 yards.

Bolts w/scopes and pointy slugs for range stretching.

Gunner

I have never shot any game with the flex tip in my .444 Marlin but from the reports I've read here and on Marlinowner it sounds like the .444 Marlin and .45-70 guys are not a big fan of them but the .30-30 and .35 Rem guys love them.

They are constructed on lighter side and perfect for deer but it seems the .444 and .45-70 guy are usually fans of heavier, stronger jacketed and cast bullets for elk and moose.

Regarding the Hornady manuals with the flex tip, the 35 Remington loads were reduced to work with the new flex tip. They should had listed the bullets separately.

Drop isn't what he is talking about...


I'd like to also mention that, 30-30 cases don't need trimmed to use the FTX.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. A 12 gauge shotgun will launch a load of 00 buckshot at 1325 fps at the muzzle. As you know these are just round lead balls that weigh roughly 60 grains. Just one of them will kill a deer at 50 yards or so if it hits it in the lungs. A 150 grain 30-30 round going at 1500 fps has a lot more going for it whether it expands or not and will kill a deer graveyard dead if placed in the right spot. Most likely the guy you are talking about made bad shots or possibly hit the deer in a vital spot and lost the blood trail....which can happen with any and all calibers. I think he had enough gun.